Bloodwork Clues That Suggest Sleep Apnea

[Dan W]

I thought this clinical review (full text) was interesting, concluding that IL-6 levels could be a good indicator for discriminating between people with and without obstructive sleep apnea.

Of more-commonly-tested markers, I noticed that CRP and hematocrit might also be good clues, although with a higher chance than IL-6 of being caused by other issues. Hematocrit could be particularly misleading to us Peat-folk that live at high altitude so that we can look down on others. But at a given altitude, the hematocrit clue seems to be pretty clear (from this study):

 

[ecstatichamster]

mild to moderate sleep apnea does not lead to a higher mortality or morbidity rate even if "untreated. " I think Buteyko and bag breathing and thiamine can help reduce or eliminate it, as it is caused by hyperventilation and low CO2 levels.

 

[oriana]

mild to moderate sleep apnea does not lead to a higher mortality or morbidity rate even if "untreated. " I think Buteyko and bag breathing and thiamine can help reduce or eliminate it, as it is caused by hyperventilation and low CO2 levels.

Could someone please tell me more about this metabolic view of sleep apnea?

I've been wondering about it based on my own Peating and observing my partner. Supposedly the issue is obstruction, which is obviously not the only factor since the patterns of breathing change over the course of the night, some of these feature obstructive apnea, but others not. Usually immediately as he falls asleep he goes into a kind of hyperventilation pattern with a lot of diaphragm tension. If wearing a mouth brace to keep airway open, he won't stop breathing as he otherwise would, but the underlying overbreathing pattern is there. If no guard, does the absence of adequate CO2 lead to loss of what Yandell Henderson called "tonus"? i.e. is there something about the hyperventilation pattern itself that causes loss of soft palate "tension"? Also, the mouth guard doesn't seem to help much with daytime drowsiness, so I bet that has less to do with the episodes of apnea than with stress of hyperventilation? But probably something with "depth" of sleep stages happening here? Anyone know about this stuff?

I'm so curious what about the sleep stages correlates with these different breathing patterns, i.e. later in the night he can shift into calmer breathing without any snoring or obstruction.

Likely he is in what Buteyko people would identify as overbreathing during day, too.

 

[ecstatichamster]

i think apnea is quite obviously a defense mechanism to raise CO2 levels from dangerously life-threateningly low levels by stopping breathing.

If you solve the underlying hyperventilation issue and raise CO2 levels the apnea clears up.

 

[Dan W]

I know ecstatichamster's talking about mild/moderate apnea, but I'm a bit paranoid of people attempting too much replacement of "standard" obstructive apnea treatments because the risk is so high. My memory's fuzzy, but I think there was a Peat person that tried replacing her CPAP with mouth-taping and started getting some crazy symptoms. And it took a while to realize they were related to apnea kicking back in. And I think there's clues obstructive apnea can be a function of anatomical features even if some of it's adaptive:
http://www.atsjournals.org/doi/full/10.1164/rccm.200112-110OC

 

[Texon]

I know ecstatichamster's talking about mild/moderate apnea, but I'm a bit paranoid of people attempting too much replacement of "standard" obstructive apnea treatments because the risk is so high. My memory's fuzzy, but I think there was a Peat person that tried replacing her CPAP with mouth-taping and started getting some crazy symptoms. And it took a while to realize they were related to apnea kicking back in. And I think there's clues obstructive apnea can be a function of anatomical features even if some of it's adaptive:
http://www.atsjournals.org/doi/full/10.1164/rccm.200112-110OC

@ecstatichamster
Vitamins In Absentia: When The "Death Angel" Comes To Visit

 

[Texon]

@ecstatichamster
Vitamins In Absentia: When The "Death Angel" Comes To Visit

Bump

 

[Max23]

I wonder what the connection with acid reflux is? Maybe both of them in most cases are caused by low stomach acid. But what causes that? I have taken some betaine hydrochloride with pepsin and it has improved daytime breathing and sleep. It also has improved the contraction of abdomen muscles. I am also trying pyridoxine and thiamine sounds like a good idea.

 

[Texon]

I wonder what the connection with acid reflux is? Maybe both of them in most cases are caused by low stomach acid. But what causes that? I have taken some betaine hydrochloride with pepsin and it has improved daytime breathing and sleep. It also has improved the contraction of abdomen muscles. I am also trying pyridoxine and thiamine sounds like a good idea.

Interesting. I have tried betaine hcl before, but it made the burning worse. I have also found I don't react well to the glycine in various supplements, gelatin and glycine powder itself. It unfortunately goes to glutamate and increases excitotoxicity.

 

[Texon]

I wonder what the connection with acid reflux is? Maybe both of them in most cases are caused by low stomach acid. But what causes that? I have taken some betaine hydrochloride with pepsin and it has improved daytime breathing and sleep. It also has improved the contraction of abdomen muscles. I am also trying pyridoxine and thiamine sounds like a good idea.

@Dan Wich @ecstatichamster I think the information in the link below is especially important. A few years ago, I tested very low (in the Nutreval red zone) for serum b1, and the doc thought nothing of it. I am lean anyway, and I was even losing a lot of weight for no apparent reason at the time. These and other symptoms all point to a b1 processing deficiency of some kind. So, I am taking benfotiamine and extra vitamin C and E (C and E counter glutamate effects) with decent results currently.
Vitamins In Absentia: When The "Death Angel" Comes To Visit

 

[Max23]

@Dan Wich @ecstatichamster I think the information in the link below is especially important. A few years ago, I tested very low (in the Nutreval red zone) for serum b1, and the doc thought nothing of it. I am lean anyway, and I was even losing a lot of weight for no apparent reason at the time. These and other symptoms all point to a b1 processing deficiency of some kind. So, I am taking benfotiamine and extra vitamin C and E (C and E counter glutamate effects) with decent results currently.
Vitamins In Absentia: When The "Death Angel" Comes To Visit

I have been taking benfotiamine for four days now. It has been everything I hoped thyroid would be. The effects on the brain have been amazing. The world looks like it was before I got sick. I feel pleasure in random events, everything feels more interesting. I feel less angry and irritated. I have loads of energy and I feel like I want to do things. There have been other effects as well like better muscle function, easier breathing, increased appetite, more pleasure from food, a very strong libido, increased heart rate and the skin looks better.

I went from 50mg to 100mg and continue to experiment and it has been the best supplement or drug I have ever tried. I thank you for this information @Texon. I have tried a lot of different things to cure my disease, the B vitamins have eluded me. I´ll probably try others as well sometime.

 

[Max23]

Interesting. I have tried betaine hcl before, but it made the burning worse. I have also found I don't react well to the glycine in various supplements, gelatin and glycine powder itself. It unfortunately goes to glutamate and increases excitotoxicity.

At first I had some burning with betaine HCL, but now it has gone away. My acid reflux got bad when I was drinking baking soda. Therefore I deduced that I had low stomach acid. It hasn´t fixed the problems I hoped it would, but I am experimenting with it further.

 

[Texon]

I have been taking benfotiamine for four days now. It has been everything I hoped thyroid would be. The effects on the brain have been amazing. The world looks like it was before I got sick. I feel pleasure in random events, everything feels more interesting. I feel less angry and irritated. I have loads of energy and I feel like I want to do things. There have been other effects as well like better muscle function, easier breathing, increased appetite, more pleasure from food, a very strong libido, increased heart rate and the skin looks better.

I went from 50mg to 100mg and continue to experiment and it has been the best supplement or drug I have ever tried. I thank you for this information @Texon. I have tried a lot of different things to cure my disease, the B vitamins have eluded me. I´ll probably try others as well sometime.

Glad to hear it. Keep in mind lots of things can deplete B12, and antacids/baking soda are some of them.

 

[Gûs80]

I thought this clinical review (full text) was interesting, concluding that IL-6 levels could be a good indicator for discriminating between people with and without obstructive sleep apnea.

Of more-commonly-tested markers, I noticed that CRP and hematocrit might also be good clues, although with a higher chance than IL-6 of being caused by other issues. Hematocrit could be particularly misleading to us Peat-folk that live at high altitude so that we can look down on others. But at a given altitude, the hematocrit clue seems to be pretty clear (from this study):

Hi, just a brief contribution from the studies I've been doing for the last 10 years.

Sleep apnea show many changes in labs, most of which I have been able to confirm in practice. A defiant disturbance.
- elevated: prolactin, estradiol, serotonin, aldosterone, hematocrit, glutamate, TNFa, IL6, triglycerides, homocysteine, bicarbonate, glutamate.
- decreased: vitamin d, gaba, testosterone, orexin, CO2, dopamine?, gaba.
- I have doubts: NO, acetylcholine. I found studies claiming that NO decreases in sleep apnea. On the influence of acetylcholine, I read studies that say it is high and others that it seems low.




The low adherence to CPAP has encouraged Big Pharma to research new drugs, such as:

Acetazolamide, medroxyprogesterone, fluoxetine, protriptyline, reboxetine, butylbromide, Ondansetron

For OSA daytime drowsiness: modafinil, armodafinil, Solriamfetol, methylphenidate, amphetamine derivatives.

I got better using Diamox + Niacin before bed. I started metergoline 2mg yesterday.

 

[Chad_Catholic]

I think sleep apnea can be caused by gut irritation, like an h pylori infection --speaking from experience