Another Theory Of The Universe With No Big Bang

Discussion in 'Scientific Studies' started by haidut, Jul 13, 2016.

  1. haidut

    haidut Member

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    I have posted a few articles on the idea that there was no Big Bang and the Universe is actually not expanding, and is not a closed system either. Both of these tenets (Big Bang, and increase in entropy) are key pillars of the dogma ruling virtually all scientific disciplines today, as the assumption is that all science flows from physics and its fundamental principles.
    This latest study managed once again to do come with a coherent model that does away with he Big Bang, and as the article mentioned there is now a growing "consensus" that the Big Bang did not happen. Visionaries like Hubble himself and Halton Arp would be proud. You don't hear it much in the news but the Hubble telescope launched for the very purpose of studying the proposed expansion of the Universe was a contradiction to the eponymous person.
    Edwin Hubble - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    "...In the 1930s, Hubble was involved in determining the distribution of galaxies and spatial curvature. These data seemed to indicate that the universe was flat and homogeneous, but there was a deviation from flatness at large redshifts. According to Allan Sandage, Hubble believed that his count data gave a more reasonable result concerning spatial curvature if the redshift correction was made assuming no recession. To the very end of his writings he maintained this position, favouring (or at the very least keeping open) the model where no true expansion exists, and therefore that the redshift "represents a hitherto unrecognized principle of nature."[26]"

    Anyways, this latest study proposes a Big Bounce - a rhythmically contarcting and expanding Universe with no beginning and no end. The Big Bounce is a return to ideas first appearing (officially) more than 100 years ago, and while probably still not correct it is a lot better as a model than the abomination that is the Big Bang and eternal expansion.

    Physicists just showed that the Big Bang might have been a 'Big Bounce'

    "...An international team of researchers has backed up the growing hypothesis that the Big Bang was actually a 'Big Bounce', meaning that the Universe didn’t pop into existence. Instead, it simply started expanding again after contracting fully. If correct, the team’s findings might explain how the Universe transitioned from contraction to expansion, a debate that has been raging over the Big Bounce hypothesis since it was first introduced nearly 100 years ago."

    "...This isn’t the first time a team of scientists have claimed that the Big Bang as we know it might have never happened. Back in February, a team of researchers from Egypt created a model that stated that the Universe has no beginning or end. Instead, using quantum mechanics and Einstein's theory of general relativity, they suggested that the Universe has simply been going forever. Hopefully, as computer models continue to get more powerful with each passing day, we will eventually have a better, more complete understanding of how our Universe formed - and one day might all disappear."
     
  2. robknob

    robknob Member

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    Cool post! Fits in with EU theory, universal expansion-contraction, electrical charge-discharge. I wonder what Mandelbrot really thought about the big bang, to my knowledge he didn't outright criticize it as he wasn't a cosmologist per se, but I think he would be a big bounce guy. One can see the universe charging-discharging just as a cell does, or an atom, when one looks at the universe through a lens of geometrical fractality, as he did.
     
  3. jaa

    jaa Member

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    I was under the impression that this was the general consensus and the big bang is just a good description for what happens when you rewind the clock to where our physical theories break down and then things start expanding. So the big bang is a part of the big bounce and this doesn't really seem like a fatal blow to the big bang. It just makes it easier to understand what happened before. Or am I misunderstanding things?

    To continue my stream of consciousness about these things I know little about, this does shake up our understanding of entropy. IIRC it reverses when the crunch happens which is a bit unnerving.
     
  4. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Big Bang theories and Big Bounce theories are not really compatible in their current shapes/forms. The Big Bang theory postulates a "creation" event, and I put it in quotes on purposes. Ray has criticized this idea as a simple projection of religious ideas in science. There is no "creation" event in Big Bounce theories AFAIK. So, currently, proponents of the Big Bang do not subscribe to the Big Bounce idea, and rely on describing a singularity as the origin of the Big Bang. As such, the existence of black holes is also central to the Big Bang proponents, but their existence has also been challenged repeatedly.
     
  5. Pointless

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  6. OP
    haidut

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  7. jaa

    jaa Member

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    Gotcha. Terminology gets tricky! I remember 15-20 years ago my model of the big bang was pretty much as you described. I only loosely follow physics, but that idea has seemed to transform into something like "rapid expansion of the universe from a singularity at which point we don't know what was happening because or physics breaks down" which seems congruent with the bounce part of the big bounce/crunch. So when you say "no big bang", it sounds to me like "no rapid expansion of the universe ~13.7 billion years ago".

    I think I get tripped up in terminology as well when I see you talk about black holes vs my loose mental model of them. I hear black hole and I think "massively dense objects that can have profound gravitational effects on galaxies that we can't visibly detect". So when you post something like "the existence of black holes has been challenged repeatedly" I initially interpret that to mean you think those massive objects which have strong gravitational effects that we can't see don't exist, not something like "the theory of black holes might be flawed because information can escape the event horizon but those dark massive objects are still there".
     
  8. jaa

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    Maybe it's on youtube?
     
  12. Simonsays

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  13. luke gadget

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    The idea of a Big Bang wasn't that "the universe came from nothing" (though that is usually the public narrative), but that the math pointing to the starting point - the Singularity - doesn't include any information about what came before. It's like dividing by zero at that point which renders the result meaningless. So scientists just don't spend a lot of time making claims about it. The idea of a "bounce" has been casually floated since the concept of a singularity was first proposed, but there just hasn't been any evidence to support it either way. The relevance of this new "bounce" article isn't the idea of the bounce itself, but the suggestion of a way to explain one using quantum theory.

    Not mentioned in the article, but it would have implications about what we can know from a previous universe. Part of Hawking's theory about Black Holes had an apparent contradiction: one theory says that "information can not be lost", yet if a black hole absorbs everything then information is lost. Hawking only recently came up with an explanation, that the energy 'imprints' the particles surrounding the black hole - thus the information is preserved like a snapshot - before it disappears over the over the event horizon.

    So the implication might be that IF there's a quantum state during the Singularity it would likely preserve information from the previous universe.
     
  14. X3CyO

    X3CyO Member

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    The universe sounds to be like some gut microbe. Makes me wonder if the concept of the universe is God itself.

    Personally an athiest, but all religions and understandings have some piece of the puzzle to contribute regardless.

    Hopefully humanity doesnt become the #1 bacteria and destroy the gut universe as we know it and cause the universes immune system to shut down .
    :woot:
     
  15. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    The concept of the Universe as God was the main theme of the philosopher Spinoza whom Einstein said was the only person to ever successfully unite science and religion. Einstein himself was a Spinozist (for what it's worth) and kept referring people to Spinoza's works when asked about his religious beliefs.
     
  16. aussiedownunder

    aussiedownunder Member

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    Scientists see no other reason for the stars to exist than to give us pleasure and wonder. Christ said He is the Alpha and Omega- the beginning and the end. So maybe He was answering your search.
     
  17. Nokoni

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  18. OP
    haidut

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    Yes, I think the electrical forces in EUT would be a more direct explanation. But the Narlikar theory is may also be correct since it is just a higher level explanation - based on large scale observations of mass one can deduce local gravity effects.
    For an interesting twist - Tesla believed mass was the result of gravity, not the cause of it. But he did not publish his unified field theory so we don't know what his explanation is. Maybe @nikolabeacon can shed some light on that.
     
  19. nikolabeacon

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    According to some of the Tesla's ideas , gravity exist but it is only a secondary force to the "electro-magnetic" force. (Schauberger described it a little different with a add of temperature gradients though in a biological sense as Szent would say and maybe more appropriate here since we talk here about biology ) And its action depends on various factors described below.It is a reaction force. Objects just refall towards the greatest source of energy because it has a slowest rate of time or the greatest time dilation. It is inverse square law. And mass is a by product of time dilation . Bassically it can describe one of his earlier ideas about his Time Vortex and that theory is also about luminiferous ether Summation of Tesla's Dynamic Theory of Gravity (Constant Present Time which can be connected with this quote that is tightly related to unmoving eternal creative center of vortex described by Schauberger ".... Using this as an analogy for the structural development of the atom, which is of course infinitely smaller and has a much higher rate of rotation and vibration, then it becomes clearer how physical matter could come into being through the focusing of energies at one particular point. Therefore in almost nothing is almost everything. Taken to its extreme, it could therefore be said that in nothing is everything; that all manifestation emerges through the 'eye of the needle' (center of vortex) as it were, from the high-potency, formless void of the ECI. Our world is thus, indeed, a world of illusion!.." )with an unmoving center.
    And from your original post "....they suggested that the Universe has simply been going forever" match perfectly with this Tesla explanation. I personaly found that it has a lot of similarity to Schauberger ideas about Creative Vortex and also similar explanation of electricity in this theory and in Schauberger theory. Below is his explanation about electricity, vortex, charge .
    Both agree that everything is One and interconnected and every action has an impact on all sorounding and it is never ending.Goethe was very much aware of this and it is evident from the following poem:

    All things into one are woven, each in each doth act and dwell As cosmic forces, rising, falling, charging up thisgolden bell, With heaven-scented undulations, piercing Earth from power Sublime. Harmonious all and all resounding, fill they universe and time! Amidst life's tides in raging motion, I ebb and flood - waft to and fro!



    And about nature of electricity which is still unclear to this day ...Some quotes From that paper about Tesla theory and connection between ether and electricity...and below that are some explanations about electricity, magnetism, gravity, vortex etc. by Schauberger

    ------------------

    *That the luminiferous ether fills all space

    * That the ether is acted upon by the life-giving creative force

    * That the ether is thrown into "infinitesimal whirls" ("micro helices") at near the speed of light, becoming ponderable matter

    * That when the force subsides and motion ceases, matter reverts to the ether (a form of "atomic decay")

    Tesla's ether was rigidified by rapidly varying electrostatic forces, and was thereby involved in gravitational effects, inertia, and momentum, especially in the space near earth, since, as explained by Tesla, the earth is "...like a charged metal ball moving through space", which creates the enormous, rapidly varying electrostatic forces which diminish in intensity with the square of the distance from earth, just like gravity. Since the direction of propagation radiates from the earth, the so-called force of gravity is toward earth.----this is almost identical to explanation of Schauberger about gradient of formative energy from the earth surface to the earth atmosphere.

    "...We are now confident that electric and magnetic phenomena are attributable to the ether, and we are perhaps justified in saying that the effects of static electricity are effects of ether in motion". "...we may speak of electricity or of an electric condition, state or effect". "...we must distinguish two such effects, opposite in character neutralizing each other". "...for in a medium of the properties of the ether, we cannot possibly exert a strain, or produce a displacement or motion of any kind, without causing in the surrounding medium an equivalent and opposite effect." "...its condition determines the positive and negative character." "We know that it acts like an incompressible fluid;" "...the electro-magnetic theory of light and all facts observed teach us that electric and ether phenomena are identical." "The puzzling behavior of the ether as a solid to waves of light and heat, and as a fluid to the motion of bodies through it, is certainly explained in the most natural and satisfactory manner by assuming it to be in motion, as Sir William Thomson has suggested"

    "..Electricity, therefore, cannot be called ether in the broad sense of the term; but nothing would seem to stand in the way of calling electricity ether associated with matter, or bound ether; or, in other words, that the so-called static charge of the molecule is ether associated in some way with the molecule."

    "...It cannot differ in density, ether being incompressible: it must, therefore, be under some strain or in motion, and the latter is the most probable."


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    @tyw motivated me to read Mathis articles with Mathis article on Spiral

    http://milesmathis.com/spiral.pdf

    and Miles Mathis also agrees with Einstein and Tesla about ether

    *** The truth is that Einstein and Tesla are both correct about almost everything, and that we can stir them into a new pot without much trouble at all.***

    Tesla and Einstein Were Both Right by Miles Mathis

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    about water, electricity, gravitation, magnetism , charge, spiral in schauberger -pollack language I think

    As is known, both dualistic and Unitarian hypotheses addressing this problem were put forward about the middle of the eighteenth century. According to the former, which stems from Sumerian concepts, every body or substance was originally supposed to have been charged with equal quantities of positive and negative fluidium, i.e. electricity. According to this view, an electric charge could be generated either by the addition of positive fluidium or by the removal of negative fluidium, as a result of which the original state of equilibrium would appear to be disturbed. According to the unitarian or single-fluid hypothesis proposed by Benjamin Franklin, every substance possessed a normal amount of electricity. An electrically charged body, by comparison, had a superfluity or an insufficiency of fluidium. In this regard, the physicist Rosenberg states that, on the basis of this theory, the question of the material nature of electricity is in no way clarified. From the most recent research into the conduction of electricity in rarefied gases, however, we now know that electrically charged particles (electrons) come into being, their mass amounting to 1/1700 th of the mass of a hydrogen atom.
    In view of the various avenues of research at the disposal of all branches of science today, attempting to answer the question of the nature of electricity on the basis of findings taken from only one or two directly associated fields of knowledge will not provide a satisfactory solution.Rather we should consider 'rays of electrical force', as Heinrich Hertz described them; firstly in their relation to other radiation phenomena and
    secondly in terms of their oscillator) activity in relation to pulsation. The later is synonymous with the life-activity in organic bodies and this pulsation takes place wherever carbones and oxygen come in contact with each other. Pulsation takes place in all the smallest particles in the smallest measure, and to a correspondingly greater extent in all the larger bodies created from them, due to the continuing existence of pulsations in the smaller bodies. In solid matter these processes take place by way of a carrier, whose role is always assumed by hydrogen, as has already been described by the author elsewhere.This constant pulsation is synonymous with the processes leading to interactions between oxygen and carbone groups. It results in the progressive ennoblement of carbones with each successive encounter, if the relative distribution of both elements is correct.
    These pulsations can be detected in ordinary riverwater by the fluctuation of the water surface in a Darcy-pipe, or in plants with the auranograph experiment (by Sir J. Chandra Bose), whereas in animal life, pulsations are provided throughout their whole bodies through the process of breathing and the heart's activity. Even our Earth and the surrounding spheres produce a certain rhythmical, inhaling-exhaling movement, which arises as follows.High above us is the stratosphere and far beneath us the carbonesphere, between which lies our living-space, the space where our lives unfold and in which we breath in the substances of the aforementioned spheres together with hydrogen. The zones of demarcation between the central sphere — the living-space — and the neighbouring spheres form two neutral strata, strata where isotherms corresponding to our concept of +4°C (+39.2°F) lie.)With the alternation of night and day and the associated fluctuations in temperature, the positions of both neutral strata are subjected to minor displacements, whereas with changing seasons and weather they experience far more major shifts. With the advance and retreat of both neutral strata, oxygen is brought into the living sphere from above and suitably preconditioned carbones from the carbonesphere below. Through this process, through this 'breathing in the living-space' as it were, formative substances succeed in entering atmospheric water. Every interaction represents a qualitative enhancement, an ennoblement, if the ratio between oxygen and carbones is correct.If too much oxygen is present, a depreciation must inevitably ensue, i.e. a decomposition of carbones takes place. Here the combustion of carbones occurs; phenomena which are directly related to destruction and increased temperature. Since the distribution between oxygen and carbones is dependent upon the temperature indirectly caused by one of them, processes of amelioration or deterioration also depend on whether the temperature influence acts directly or indirectly. At the moment however, there is no exact definition of any particular thermal motion and hence no temperature as such. All we can speak of is a temperature gradient, or a movement of temperature,

    The temperature-gradient is therefore something that is immaterial, a phenomenon subjected to constant change in time as well as space, where it exhibits characteristics otherwise only attributed to rays. Following on from this, we could describe the temperature-gradient as an inferior form of ray, which provides the impulse for other interactive phenomena, which themselves enable the emergence of other forms of radiation.

    Everywhere we look, we find the temperature gradient active; in the hydrological cycle, in the energy cycle, in the transmutation of energy either from material energy into living energy or from a moving energy-form into a structured one. The purpose of the temperature-gradient is the continual redistribution of quantities and the regulation of qualities of carbones and oxygen present in the carrier, i.e. the water.Therefore, if as a result of the action of temperature influences, hydrogen becomes separated into fine ice-particles at low temperatures, be it through evaporation or crystallisation (the latter case occurring in the stratosphere), then carbones and oxygen stand face to face without a carrier, a state which now expresses itself as radiation. According to the degree of ennoblement actually exhibited by the carbones at this juncture, the type of radiation is also of a higher or lower order. Generally speaking the latter comprise thermal radiation and the former, light rays and cosmic rays. Due to resistances, all these rays are propagated through space in wave-like form and in the form of vibrations, the latter being most easily detected by Branly's coherer. According to other investigations, above all those carried out by Schrodinger, a further type of ray of corpuscular nature can be imagined, although hitherto it has only been conceived theoretically as a wave. In connection with this it was proven through the Compton Effect that the laws of everyday physics and especially the laws of collision are also applicable to the micro-world.Furthermore, according to the wave-theory view of matter as proposed by Smekal, corpuscular particles are provisionally to be replaced by a wave-packet, i.e. by a superpositioning of various waves. We therefore come to the conclusion that electric rays actually represent a particular developmental stage in the spectrum of rays; that they are of corpuscular and wave-theoretical nature in which carbone particles and oxygen, both having already been separated from the carrier — hydrogen — are to be found in a particular stage of ennoblement. This is a constantly pulsating and counterbalancing movement, for which the existence of a temperature-gradient is a precondition.

    Electricism and magnetism are two other complementary, but antithetical forces, the latter being the one that circulates through and around the Earth on the polar axis In Viktor's view, however, no true magnetism as conceived today existed in the physical world. What did exist was 'bio-magnetism'. Viktor saw magnetism and its higher aspect as the uplifting, upbuilding, creative and levitative form of energy. Therefore, wherever magnetism is mentioned later, the properties of bio-magnetism are also inferred. However, in the physical world neither magnetism nor bio-magnetism are permitted to reach their extreme values because, at the same time the destructive, dis-mantling, disintegrative, debilitating energy of electricity (similar to electrolysis) applies the necessary brake. Viktor termed this form of energy 'electricism', its higher aspect being 'bio-electricism'. Overall, however, bio-magnetic energy or bio-magnetism must be slightly in excess of the electrical energy, or electricism, in order that evolution can proceed. Were it other-wise, there would always be less and less cre-ative energy. Viewed in this light, the so-called Van Allen radiation belts girdlin the Earth therefore represent the electrical component of this symbiotic interaction between bio-magnetism and bio-electricism, which together produce the necessary pulsation,. the hallmark olife and living things. Although in this diagram their respective magnitudes are shown to be constant, neither achieves its maximum value at the same time as the other. When the electrical energies expand to their maximum, relative to the system as a whole, the bio-magnetic energies are reduced to their minimum. They can therefore be seen to be reciprocal and their mutual interaction can thus be interpreted by the equation 1/n*n =1 where 1/n = electricism or bio-electricism, and n = magnetism or bio-magnetism. According to Viktor Schauberger this oscillation between magnitudes is of such high frequency that it appears as a state of rest. concerning the ur-original source of energy, electricism and bio-magnetism and their respective allied forces of gravitation and levitation, also have their counterparts in the field of human experience and the slow development of higher consciousness.

    Does an insuperable force of gravity actually exist?

    A variety of experiments led to the insight, startling to all technologists no doubt, that a physical force of gravity exists only in the atmospheric living-space, and even then only to a certain extent. At first view it seems amazing, even impossible, that the force of gravity can be overcome almost effortlessly, and that physical heaviness will become equally non-existent, in the same way that a healthy organism is barely conscious of its own bodily weight.
    The most instructive and revealing demonstration of this phenomenon is not only the mountain trout's almost motionless stance amidst torrential flows of springwater, but also its lightning flight upstream when danger threatens. In the spawning season — during the period of highest sexual arousal — it can surmount waterfalls many metres high with the greatest of ease. For this to happen the falling water has to wind in about its own fall-axis through a system of hollow, spiral curves. In the process of falling, its density is increased mechanically, it becomes specifically heavier through coactive physical influences, and approaches its anomaly point of +4°C (+39.2°F).Such waterfalls exhibit a fall-pattern that becomes progressively more conical towards the base, and within it a biomagnetic field evolves that radiates levitative substances. These substances should be understood as formative and uplifting atomic forces, which on a larger scale trigger off hitherto unidentified forces which are active in cyclones. In this instance, however, they screw the trout's body upwards along a spiral path until the point of the initial downward curvature of the water is reached. The trout then leaps under its own power, entering the upwardly tractive water flow above the waterfall in which it moves effortlessly upstream with a characteristic twisting and looping movement, eventually reaching the vicinity of a spring.

    There are four fundamental forms of movement: all natural dynamic motion will comprise one or more of four types - orbital, rotational, toroidal and circulatory .All of these are combined in the processes of natural movement. When we come to spiral-vortical motion itself, we can further subdivide it into another two forms. Viktor referred to radial-axial and axial->radial (actually tangential-> axial and axial->tangential) motion, which are terms of his coinage in this particular context. Axial->radial motion signifies an initial movement around a centre, which subsequently transfers to a radial movement towards the exterior; it is thus centrifugal and a movement from the inside outwards. At the centre of the wheel, for example, there is no motion but, with increasing distance from the centre, the speed of motion and the tendency towards disinte-gration also increase.
    In Viktor's theories, also proven practically, with this form of movement the resistance to motion increases by the square of the starting velocity. In other words, if the radial distance from the centre of rotation is 1 and the resis-tance is 1, when the radius is doubled, the resistance is quadrupled and the rotational period halved. If the radial distance is 3, the resultant resistance is 32 (=9) and the rotational velocity reduced to a 1/3rd, and so on. However if the rotational velocity of such a centrifugal system is to be maintained at a constant level, then a continual, wasteful and expensive increase in the amount of input energy is required to overcome the resistance, and the whole system becomes less and less efficient. Not only this, but it creates discordant noise and the more noise a device makes, the more it operates against the laws of Nature. The dispersion of energy, therefore, is asso-ciated with noise or heat, as the case may be. The axial->radial centrifugal form of motion can thus be defined as divergent, decelerating, dissipating, structure-loosening, disintegrating, destructive and friction-inducing. All the concentrated energy involved in the growth of the forest, for example, all the innumerable chemical and atomic interactions, are none other than ener-getic processes, movements of creative energy. The silence of the forest is indicative of the extraordinary concentration of creative energy. Its destruction, however, is always associated with the horrendous racket of chain-saws, heavy machinery and the like. Whereas our mechanical, technological sys-tems of motion almost without exception are axial->radial and heat- and friction-inducing, Nature uses precisely the opposite form of movement. When Nature is moving dynamically, the slowest movement occurs at the periphery and the fastest at the centre. One only has to observe the dynamics of a cyclone or a tornado. Her form of movement, therefore, is centripetal or radial->axial, moving from the outside inwards with increasing velocity, which acts to cool, to condense, to structure. Radial->axial motion can therefore be defined as convergent, contracting, consolidating, creative, integrating, formative, friction reducing. If the starting radius is 1 and the initial resistance is 1 on an inwinding path, when the radius is halved, the resis-tance is (1/2)2 = 1/4 and the rotational periodicity, frequency or velocity is doubled. The dynamics of evolution must therefore follow this centripetal, radial->axial path, for if the opposite were the case, all would have come to a stop almost before it started. Force is the application of energy to do work. The magnitude of a force F is the prod-uct of a mass m times acceleration a (F=ma). As it stands, this equation is not particu-larly interesting, because it tells us nothing about the all-important type of acceleration, for one form leads to destruction and the other to creation. It is therefore necessary to differentiate between them, which is most simply done by superscripting the acceleration a with either a positive or negative sign, i.e. a+ or a-. This would indicate whether the radius of rotation is expanding or the form of acceleration is pressure- and friction-intensifying (+ = axial->radial, centrifugal acceleration) or conversely whether the radius of rotation is reducing, creating a form of acceleration that is suction-increasing and friction-reducing (- = radial-> axial, cen-tripetal acceleration). The equation derived using the latter Viktor Schauberger consid-ered to be the one for determining creative force. Whereas with centrifugal acceleration a+ more power must be applied in order to accelerate or to maintain the same velocity, in the case of centripetal acceleration a- the velocity and energy increase automatically. This produces Viktor's formative force, or those upbuilding energies from which all life is created. In this context we could usefully re-examine the Hasenohrl-Einstein equation (E = mc2) in connection with other energy-determining equations. While their general premises apply to mechanical systems, there is some doubt as to their relevance to living systems. As presently interpreted E = mc2 requires that the amount or energy in the Universe to be finite and assumes the speed of light to be constant. Here, however, we are reminded of Walter Schauberger's contention that the absolute speed of light is not con-stant ), but dependent on the frequency-related radius of its spiral path; the smaller the radius of rotation (frequency of periodic-ity), the greater the velocity and intrinsic energy of the radiation (light) and vice versa. Such a nonconstancy in the speed of light - as a factor in quantifying energy or mass - would seemingly negate the doctrine of uni-versally finite energy and the conservation of energy law.

    ***** This is exactly what Tesla found out about light. It is not constant. *****



    . Leaving this aside for the moment, let us now consider the standard, textbook equation for kinetic energy or work W, where W is the product of (mass m x velocity v2) divided by 2 (W=1/2*mv2), we dis-cover something very interesting. This equa-tion also relates to energetic activity and, analogous to the Hasenohrl-Einstein equa-tion, determines the quantity of energy used in our technical, mechanical systems. Here however we suddenly find that the amount of available energy in the form of work W is halved. In this equation mass is still repre-sented by m, whereas c is replaced by v - both terms relating to the time and speed taken to travel a given distance. The expression mc2 can thus be equated with mv2. In the Hasenohrl-Einstein equation, however, there is no division by 2, so the amount of avail-able energy always remains undiminished. But when intrinsically the same energy equation is applied to technical energetic processes and purposes, the amount of use-ful energy is apparently halved. From text-books we learn that energy is indestructible, but merely changes form, this reduction being attributable to the encounter with a resistance of some kind (deceleration) or through the conversion of energy into heat, or both. In consideration of what has been stated above, and, Walter Schauberger's rein-terpretation of C2, perhaps the real reason for this loss is the exploitation of wasteful axial-radial, centrifugal motion. In contrast, radial-axial dynamics operate according to the law of the anti-conservation of energy , wherein friction - and therefore heat - constantly reduces and velocity increases automatically, because the type of motion is in conformity with natural energetic (spiritual) law and not the mundane, physical laws of mechanics.


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    And about the main subject of the thread. This is in my opinion also a question about the origins of energy.

    Let us take as an hypothesis that the ur-original source of energy is a radiant emanation from the Cause of Cause from the Eternally Creative Intelligence to avoid any gender implications thereafter referred to as the ECI). Of necessity an entity such as the ECI must constantly create on the process of Its own evolution. Energy might then be viewed as an expression of the Will-To-Create, as the agency through which the ideas of the ECI become manifest. This could take the form of an infinitely high-energy emission of unconditional love or spirit pulsating over a wide range of frequen-cies at hyperluminal speeds. Radiating from the Central Ur-Cause or the ECI, it operates in the most sublime of realms, in all directions to all parts of the unmanifested Universe. Not being limited by the constraints of matter, the speed of light or the conservation of energy law, it is therefore present in all parts of the Universe simultaneously, and because of its total unconditionality or as pure, unpurpose-prescribed energy, it can be freely employed either and equally for 'good' or 'evil'.

    This is no straight-line movement, however, for this would imply uniformity. Uniformity cannot beget life, since life is created out of differences, out of a state of non-equilibrium which, in this instance is generated by the radiating pulsation of ethereal mind energies at diverse frequencies. In the process of emission, the interaction between these various frequencies produces certain periodicities or cyclical effects. On the one hand this results in the formation of more densely concentrated energy domains where their respective cycles or wavelengths converge (field energy densifi-cation), and on the other, in regions of diffuse, more rarified energy where they diverge (field energy attenuation).

    Due to this now non-uniform energy distri-bution comprising zones of greater and lesser energy density, the way in which the formerly unimpeded, primary outflow of energy moves, it gradually becomes influenced through the creation of denser vibratory matrices to which it is no longer directly harmonically related.

    Deflected from its initially linear radiating path on encountering these lower vibratory resistances, the outward movement of energy progressively assumes a more curvilinear configuration in its descent into less spiritual planes. According to the 'angle' at which these emissions impact on the denser domains of resistance, they are imparted a right-hand or left-hand direction of spin. From an originally undifferentiated state, the energetic entity thus created becomes endowed with either a positive or negative charge and enters the lower worlds of duality .

    The difference between these various levels and dimensions of creative, formative energy may best be illustrated by a simple analogy. By replacing the Eternally Creative Intelligence with the Sun (our principal source of life-energy), one could say that the solar wind (waves of high-energy particles) impinges on the Earth's atmosphere, creating turbulence (air-waves) due to thermal and energetic reactions. This represents the first demodulation from a high energetic state to a motion of lower velocity and intensity. These reactions in turn generate waves of yet lower velocity, but greater physicality, on the sur-face of the ocean, a denser medium with more harmonically stabilised energy than air. Finally,. the ocean waves form nearly static ripples in the sand on the ocean floor.

    The whole arrangement not only clearly demonstrates the creative power of higher energies and higher dimensions over lower ones, but also the distinct energetic separations between them in terms of the matter-energy or matter-spirit balance. For the sand-ripple dweller, the fluid movement of the water above it is all it is aware of. The causal dynamics of the air above the water are almost beyond its ken, although it may be dimly are of this higher state of energy. As human beings we are immersed in a 3-dimensional world, but yet have an inkling of a possible 4th dimension in the form of time. What spacial magnitude is occupied by a 5th dimension, perhaps the dimension of thought and feeling, is well-nigh inconceivable to us. It may indeed possess none of the familiar 3-dimensional aspects of length, width and depth, but all the same it IS.

    How big is a thought? What is thought? What is an idea and what is the substance of an idea? What is the process which motivates us to do something? We first get an idea, then we develop the concept and then, and only then, are we in a position to fulfill our desire to implement it. Our natural aspiration is to be creative. The force, the impulse, which is the motivator for us to create, is an unseen energetic process.

    There are those who believe that the world came into being purely accidentally. There are others who believe it was created by God or the ECI. The truth, however, probably lies somewhere in between and in a certain sense this could be viewed as a reflective process.

    ***That is to say that the ECI, imbued with the desire to create, is constantly seeking for new knowledge gained through the experiences of Its multifarious creations in order to create even better universes. As human beings, we could thus be construed as the creative, cellular organisms within the host entity of the
    ECI, which contribute to Its overall development, although having no inkling of the spaces and higher planes in which the ECI operates. As a corollary of this, there is therefore no absolute truth as such, for however profound and absolute it may appear to be, such a truth must move and develop as its discoverer, the Eternally Creative Intelligence, Itself evolves. ***




    It could be argued that all physical manifestation develops as the product of focused energy emanating from a seed of desire, of Will-to-create. This manifests itself as vibrations carrying the image or the idea of what is to be created and that form and that form only can arise which corresponds faithfully to the idea of the thing itself. As a form of energy, sound has long been attributed a form-creating capacity. Sound also has an effect on the quality of a structure, organic or otherwise, is also subconsciously reflected in our own language. We say that a structure is 'sound' or 'unsound', meaning that it is either safe or unsafe. Similarly a person is said to be of 'sound' or 'unsound' mind, reflecting their creative or destructive propensities. Jericho was supposedly destroyed by destructive sound resonances.



    Sunlight as a vital factor in health in relation to the findings of Dr. John N.Ott. One of the reasons for this debilitating effect is that each molecule of the body has its own resonant frequency, which can be stimulated, over-stimulated or suppressed by different light frequencies and vibrations (sounds). What long-term effect the ceaseless bombardment of the body's very sensitive, electrically charged cells by the veritable salad of electro-magnetic emis-sions in the way of high-tension cables, radio, television, radar, microwave ovenan trans-mitters, etc. has on the overall health is a matter for serious conjecture.

    The Phenomenon of Resonance and sound or resonance therefore does seem to be associated with creative or destructive phenomena. Resonance is the free transfer of energy or the sympathetic vibration between one system and another without loss, and is the function of mutually precisely harmoni-cally related frequencies. As such, it and the phenomena, physical or otherwise, that it pro-duces, are the result of the periodic repetition of a given number of impulses, which can be categorised as vibration, oscillation, or rota-tional periodicity
    The formative effects of resonance in the form of sound are clearly apparent and, in other plates in Hans Jenny's book higher frequencies are shown to give rise to increasingly complex perceptual patterns6. From this it follows that the state of order of a given physical structure manifested through resonance is dependent on a particular frequency level or standing-wave pattern of vibrations, higher vibrations producing higher forms and vice versa. Therefore if the intensities of those resonant interactions that furnish the idea and energetic basis for more evolved manifestations of life are lowered artificially or by other means, then the general quality of life-forms degenerates, sometimes reaching the extreme condition of extinction. This is because the overall level of vibration, which contains the formative patterns explicit to the creature or form of life in question, has demodulated to frequencies too low to support these formerly highly complex structures.

    As we survey the world around us today this is precisely what appears to be happening - the quantitative thrust of our technology and ideology is pressing downwards towards uniformity, to a vibrationless state, which is equivalent to zero energy and quality. Thus species after species is disappearing simply because the ambient creative energetic matrix, which has to do with upward evolution, has been rendered inoperative. But while it may appear that all we now have left is all that we can still preserve, namely an increasingly limited spectrum of possible life-forms, all that is needed to reawaken the creative urge of Nature is to raise the level of human spirituality and natural awareness, in order to produce an outflow of positive, creatively potentiated energy.

    This is tightly connected to Vernadsky and noosphere

    ***
    Higher spirituality is synonymous with a higher level of energy. As this energy is renewed in the human psyche it permeates and enriches the noosphere, the immaterial realms of thought, the abode of the Will-to-create, and the complexity of the creative energetic matrix is raised as a result. New species or those previously extinct may then begin to reappear in physical form as a reflection of this higher creative dynamic.

    ***

    Ultimately we there-fore have no need to fear for the future on this planet - that the spectrum of life will constantly diminish - because, as we attune our own harmonic vibrations more and more with those of the ECI, then in the process we will reactivate the evolutionary vibrancies through which all life will be revivified and reborn. Incidentally in regard to resonance per se the number 29 seems to have some strange affinity with the Earth and the planetary system for, in the course of my research I discovered some peculiar coincidences, which are per-haps worthy of note and are set out in .To return to the theme in hand: As the will-to-create intensifies, the focus becomes more concentrated, extraneous elements are ejected and a channel is opened to the free passage of creative energy, resulting in an increasing charge (life-force), energetic density and rotational velocity; in other words, a vortex of life-energy evolves, into which more and mode and higher qualities of energy are drawn for the generation and development of the form itself . Since it is first generated in a particular location or moment in space-time, this vortex bears the imprint of the conditions obtaining at that spot (its reference point in the space-time continuum) and is therefore a totally unique phenomenon with its own individual and characteristic frequency or vibration, or combination of vibrations. Its inherent stability and eventual physical manifestation is assured as long as its originating idea is unchanged and remains concentrated.

    These interacting vibrations must be in harmony with each other and also in resonance with the particular conditions of the place of genesis, so that a given life process or creature can actually grow and evolve. This is the function of the various chakras of the human body, which are represented as flower-like vortices whose stems enter the body at various points, such as the heart, in order to con-duct the particular variety of higheenergies suited to the enhancement and health of the organ in question. Harmony and resonance are prerequisites for growth and development; lower stages of harmony in the form of lesser individualities providing the firm and stable substructures upon which the higher structures are built.

    The ECI is thus everywhere at once, and creates all the various levels of existence through the formation and concentration of life-force into harmonic vortices of matter from Its infinite ocean of energy. That Goethe was very much aware of this is evident from the following poem:


    All things into one are woven, each in each doth act and dwell As cosmic forces, rising, falling, charging up thisgolden bell, With heaven-scented undulations, piercing Earth from power Sublime. Harmonious all and all resounding, fill they universe and time! Amidst life's tides in raging motion, I ebb and flood - waft to and fro!

    Birth and grave, eternal ocean, ever-moving, transient flow. A changing, vibrant animation, the very stuff of life is mine, Thus at the loom of time I sit and weave this living cloth divine.

    In Its universe, therefore, there is no energy crisis! From this it could be construed that it is due the interaction of manifold harmonic vibrations ultimately manifesting into tight radius and extreme rotational velocity that material existence emerges. A good example of this is the spiralling air masses of our weather systems, in which the very large and extended gyrating air-masses have relatively little dense substance, a large radius of action, very little material form and very slow rotational velocities. As they gradually converge, however, their speed and force increases and their radius reduces.

    Ultimately they resolve themselves into almost physically palpable energetic entities such as tornadoes and waterspouts, whose core at the base, where the rotational velocity is greatest, is very nearly hard, physical, matter. From being ephemeral, they have become almost tangible. Their upper roots originate in relatively low-density atmospheric conditions, which can be equated with a less structured and more radially dynamic energy-state, since this zone is more exposed to high-energy solar radiation, whereas the base of the tornado penetrates into greater atmospheric densities which are synonymous with more structured, rotational conditions of energy. The effective density of tornadoes is such that their naturally occurring vortexial energies have been known to bend steel railway lines. Using this as an analogy for the structural development of the atom, which is of course infinitely smaller and has a much higher rate of rotation and vibration, then it becomes clearer how physical matter could come into being through the focusing of energies at one particular point. Therefore in almost nothing is almost everything. Taken to its extreme, it could therefore be said that in nothing is everything; that all manifestation emerges through the 'eye of the needle' as it were, from the high-potency, formless void of the ECI. Our world is thus, indeed, a world of illusion!




    Since we still do not know what energy is and for the purposes of discussion, represents a possible energy path. As the energy moves along its desired path, it draws matter into its wake and forms the vessel through which it wants to move. A river does exactly the same thing. The capillaries in our bodies likewise. The blood is the external manifestation of an energy path. What we see is the blood, but we do not see the energy that moves it. The blood is all that matter which is too coarse to be taken to the energy's final destination. Energy therefore creates the form of the path through which it wants to move and along which it can move with the least resistance. If we desire to build a house, we certainly do not want one in which it is inconvenient to move about. We build it to suit ourselves and our way of living. As has been mooted earlier, all natural systems are evolved as a result of the pattern of energy, or the idea that sought to create them in the first place. All this may reek of metaphysics, but it is difficult to express the notion otherwise.

    Once the external form has been created, a point is reached where the matter used to create it is now too coarse to continue along the energetic path and is left behind. Viktor

    Schauberger often referred to this Earth as a huge dung-heap and said that all the matter, all the living things upon it, were only the fecal matter ejected by the various energies and their forms of movement, because they could not carry the material any further. In other words, whatever energies contribute to an increase in life-force are retained in immaterial form, while the remaining energetic material is expelled as waste, analogous to the daily defecation of human beings.

    Having been extracted from food, apart from metabolic functions, these often very subtle immaterial energies are used for the production of thought processes. From a certain point of view, the human body could therefore be seen as a hollow energy path, a com-plex toroidal vortex for the transmutation of matter-energy into physical and intellectual activity. In line with this view, energy and its move-ment are unquestionably the primary cause, the prerequisite for physical manifestation.

    Everything we see around us, the trees, the flowers, all are the outside casing of the formative energy path. According to Viktor Schauberger, while the main body of a tree's energy lies above it, the tree can only grow to a certain height, because the energies are only able to draw up the physical mass of the tree so far in their wake.


    It has been too immersed in the euclidean elements of mechanics with little knowledge or conceptions of organics. We have never taken the time to understand Nature's dynamics enough to be able to exploit them.hat is the essential nature of energy? Where do we begin to search for the answer to this age-old question? Surprisingly, despite all scientific investigation, nobody seems to have come up with a definitive answer! All we know of are the ways in which energy manifests itself. We can see that energy is involved in flowing water. We can see that energy is associated with creating clouds. Energy is active in an engine com-busting petrol or gasoline. But what is it?

    What is its essence? What is this sublime process that always seems intimately connected with motion? An honest physicist would answer, We don't know. We might also ask a bishop or a priest, What is spirit or the substance of spirit? While many propositions may be put forward, in the final analysis they may also be forced to admit their ultimate ignorance. It could be argued, however, that what is called energy by the scientist and spirit by the priest are essentially the same. Its origin, however, remains problematic.

    Since we cannot actually see energy, but only its outward manifestation, its ori-gins may well lie in a reality beyond our senses. Perhaps energy is the culmination of a desire to create, to afford every possibility for the gaining of new experience. While there are many extremely high energies of which science is aware and has actually measured, there are also forms of energy of which we are aware, but which defy all scientific quantification and measurement. These are too subtle and cannot be detected by even the most sophisticated scientific instruments.

    Although it must recognise their existence, for scientists are also human beings, science cannot accurately measure various human energies such as thought, desire, love, enthusiasm, hatred, anger, etc., all of which are emanations from the human psyche and motivators for action. While science may be able to detect brain activity related to these phenomena, it cannot actually measure their intrinsic power, size, frequency or vibrational state, nor their true point of origin. As immaterial forms of energy emanating from other-placeness - the physical void - which Viktor Schauberger claims operate according to the law of anti-conservation of energy, they are therefore conveniently gnored. This is because they do not conform to, nor are calculable by the famous Hasenohrl-Einstein equation and its derivation, the law of conservation of energy.

    The very word 'Universe' signi-fies a single curve (uni=one, versum=curve).

    The fact that the configuration of this curve may be a complex combination of descending and ascending, involuting and convoluting, expanding and contracting spiral movements does nothing to detract from its uniqueness or unit quality, since from inception to culmination its path is continuous. This curve is an energy-path and the essence of energy is ceaseless movement. In its eternal trajectory from spirit to matter (outward breath) and from matter to spirit (inward breath) it perme-ates all creation. It is all creation!

    Apart from its inherent pulsation, it would be impossible to dissect this eternal move-ment into discrete segments, for the point at which one portion of this sublime curve ceases and the next begins cannot be defined mathematically, whatever the subjective view. Therefore this unique, primordial, creative curve embodies the unbroken path of evolution, of cyclical, pulsating out-foldment and in-foldment, as it spirals in and out of all the myriads of apparently inextricably interconnected and interdependent individual systems in the cosmos, tying and uniting them all in one inscrutable Gordian Knot.

    ***
    We are therefore unequivocally all part and parcel of the One and any harm of whatever kind we inflict on others or to the planet, we not only inflict on ourselves, but the rest of the cosmos as well.


    This creative force and its dynamic have already long been known to Eastern Even the tools of common language unwit-tingly (or wittingly) allude to the character of this spiral movement. When we e\-(s)pire, we leave this our 'mortal coil'. When we are in-spire-d, we feel drawn to higher ideals. Our spir(e)it is raised and we are sucked into the upward spiral. Similarly through re-spir(e)- ation the ionisation balance of the body, which varies according to the time of day, is adjusted by the proportional ionisation of the air indrawn through the nostrils, which due to opposite directions of rotation, is nega-tively ionised by the left nostril and posi-tively by the right nostril. Sneezing, therefore, may perhaps be a compensating process, through which high opposing charges resulting from over-ionisation are reduced to zero. Interestingly enough, while on the subject of the body, the German word for the spinal column, the fundamental supporting structure of the human body, is 'Wirbelsaule', which translated directly into English, means a 'spiral' column. Similarly each one of the vertebra is referred to as a whirlpool or a vortex. Clearly, the Germans have long had a completely different view of the central struc-ture of our bodies. Whereas we see it as a stiff, more or less rigid, physical structure, they see it more as an energy path. This has obvious associations with the Hindu concept of Kundalini, the name given to the two ser-pents that dwell at the base of the spine, whose rising energises and spiritualises the various higher chakras (ethereal vortices) of the physical body and whose entwinement on Mercury's staff (the caduceus) empowers him as Messenger of the Gods. Nature too, provides us with countless examples of dynamic spiral growth and movement in the form of galaxies, cyclones, whirlpools and tornadoes, of which we, in our blindness and arrogance, fail to take note in our pursuit of mechanical perfection.

    According to the late Dr.Tilman Schauberger, grandson and expert on Viktor Schauberger's works, creative, formative motion is:-

    Open, goal-oriented, structured, concentrated, intensifying, condensing, dynamic, self-organising, self-divesting of the less valuable, rhythmical, cyclical, sinuous, pulsating, inrolling, and centripetal = the cycloid-spiral-space-curve.





    Schaunerger about entropy

    Thermodynamic law of physics says, that a closed physical system can not proceed without an external intervention from a state of lower order in a state of higher order. This rate, also known as entropy, says, that there can be no perpetual motion machine. Each physical process automatically goes into a lower state of order on, taking heat from the state with the lowest order, dh. the largest entropy, is. According to the law of entropy, it is impossible, convert thermal energy into mechanical or electrical energy. All conventional machines, based on the principle of combustion and the transformation of higher forms of energy into heat energy, increase the entropy, dh. the clutter and chaos in the world. Thus, the prognosis is the conventional science, that the universe will die a heat death, If all the higher forms of energy such as kinetic energy to its lowest order condition has been attributed.

    The law of entropy applies to closed systems. This fine detail in
    The formulation of 2. Thermodynamic law of thermodynamics is crucial. Only in closed systems, this law applies. That today's physics is not in a position, to think in open systems, gives rise to the dogma of the sentence. The question arises, if nature is a closed or open system
    .

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    And Probably all this is why we see a confusion today with genetic complexity . Actually environmental stimulants that affect the organism are countless and so varied and are present 100% of the time from the birth and even in womb so they sometimes can not be explained other than with "genetics". We need to increase available smooth enegetic flow in the organism to be more resilent from various environmental stimulants. Evolution can procede only when positive or upward force prevails. Balance is somewhere 60:40 I think. Of corse when its established it takes some time to shift the balance from bad state or "genetics" ((or poor resilence)). Of course organism and cells have memory so past actions from birth and childhood and from past generations always have influence because generations of humans can be seen as a one life Flow of energy....of course when we are more resilent (good efficient uninterrupted oxidative metabolism with abundance of energy and higher temperature) those memories are starting to fade and are not influencing organism so much. Of course sometimes damage in that one flow was so severe that it cannot be easily corrected such as in some serious degenerative conditions from birth that are considered "unchangable". But still at present various environmental stimulants at different location and lifestyles can be very powerfull and are vastly varied.
     
  20. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    That question has already been partially answered. If the Universe is flat, and non-connected it is likely open/infinite. In an infinite system there can be no talk of closed systems or ever-increasing entropy.
    The Universe Is Flat — Now What?

    I like the articles you posted. Makes sense on so many levels. But I don't like the metaphysical description of the immaterial nature of energy. If it manifests in this world, it has to be of some substance and can be measured even if by surrogate. So, even things like love, anger, hope, etc can be measured at least indirectly. For example, the dopamine/serotonin, progesterone/estrogen, DHEA/cortisol, ATP/ADP, NADH/NAD, glucose/FFA, nerve relaxation index, etc can all provide some measure of these states of "spirit". I am sure there are others we have not even seen yet, but again - if it exists as an observable phenomenon in this world it can be materially described, measured, and maybe even channelled/directed.
     
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