A Biden Presidency?

[haidut]

What if...both Dems and Reps have been rigging the system for years and both sides would prefer that not much noise is raised about it?
We saw what happened in 2000 and we see what is happening now. If there is indeed vote fraud on a level big enough to skew elections (especially close ones like the ones over the last 20 years), it would be quite expected that establishment on BOTH sides of the corrupt MSM would rage against any claims of fraud and attempt at investigation.
I think this is Trump's best chance to show if he is PRO or ANTI establishment. If his lawsuits uncover/prove fraud in just one state/instance, and especially if it implicates the state apparatus (NSA/CIA/FBI) then the house of cards we are locked in may very well collapse overnight. If the election system is definitively shown to be undermined then no portion of the government can be trusted even in the eyes of the average Joe (on both sides).

 

[managing]

What if...both Dems and Reps have been rigging the system for years and both sides would prefer that not much noise is raised about it?
We saw what happened in 2000 and we see what is happening now. If there is indeed vote fraud on a level big enough to skew elections (especially close ones like the ones over the last 20 years), it would be quite expected that establishment on BOTH sides of the corrupt MSM would rage against any claims of fraud and attempt at investigation.
I think this is Trump's best chance to show if he is PRO or ANTI establishment. If his lawsuits uncover/prove fraud in just one state/instance, and especially if it implicates the state apparatus (NSA/CIA/FBI) then the house of cards we are locked in may very well collapse overnight. If the election system is definitively shown to be undermined then no portion of the government can be trusted even in the eyes of the average Joe (on both sides).

The corruption you suggest most definitely exists. But I don't think it manifests itself in voting in the least. It manifests itself in the choices for whom to vote.

It would be foolish to overlook the fact that the republican party embraced Trump emphatically. He is not some magical outsider come to save us all He is an unwitting tool, just like all the rest.

 

[InChristAlone]

The corruption you suggest most definitely exists. But I don't think it manifests itself in voting in the least. It manifests itself in the choices for whom to vote.

It would be foolish to overlook the fact that the republican party embraced Trump emphatically. He is not some magical outsider come to save us all He is an unwitting tool, just like all the rest.

Yeah he's clearly part of the establishment meant to cause division and infighting so that we don't go after them, we go after each other. I am definitely not a Q follower and I will not trust the plan. This just made me anarchist more than anything. We are giving them permission to rule over us by voting them in.

 

[Wagner83]

What if...both Dems and Reps have been rigging the system for years and both sides would prefer that not much noise is raised about it?
We saw what happened in 2000 and we see what is happening now. If there is indeed vote fraud on a level big enough to skew elections (especially close ones like the ones over the last 20 years), it would be quite expected that establishment on BOTH sides of the corrupt MSM would rage against any claims of fraud and attempt at investigation.
I think this is Trump's best chance to show if he is PRO or ANTI establishment. If his lawsuits uncover/prove fraud in just one state/instance, and especially if it implicates the state apparatus (NSA/CIA/FBI) then the house of cards we are locked in may very well collapse overnight. If the election system is definitively shown to be undermined then no portion of the government can be trusted even in the eyes of the average Joe (on both sides).

People have been explained in great details, and this was proven, that they were spied on outrageously for years, mails, phone calls, everything. People even notice accurately targeted advertisements after speaking about something with someone next to their phone. Yet today most have forgotten Snowden is living in Russia and somehow will spend a life in prison if he sets foot in the US.
For those who are interested, these podcasts 1 and 2 are long but interesting nonetheless.

 

[DrJ]

Yeah these kids and their memes. What are they smoking?

Spoiler: Too dank

 

[TAG145]

Yeah, nothing will change except the loss of our civil rights especially the right to free speech and the right to peaceful assembly regardless of ideology. Half the country voted for us to become more like what George Orwell warned us about in his novel "1984". They hated Trump so much that they were willing to forever give up their civil rights in order to get rid of Trump.

R.I.P. The United States of America as a bastion of freedom and democracy.

Correct summary!

 

[not_James_Bond]

@burtlancast Any thoughts on Biden's apparent win (President elect).

 

[Fred]

This forum may soon be considered a "science denial" forum, and will be banned.

 

[haidut]

People have been explained in great details, and this was proven, that they were spied on outrageously for years, mails, phone calls, everything. People even notice accurately targeted advertisements after speaking about something with someone next to their phone. Yet today most have forgotten Snowden is living in Russia and somehow will spend a life in prison if he sets foot in the US.
For those who are interested, these podcasts 1 and 2 are long but interesting nonetheless.

I hear you, but most average Joes/Janes think of Snowden as some obscure spook who uncovered some dirty deeds the govt was doing to OTHERS (whatever others means). If this election snafu leads to uncovering massive election rigging and that is actually officially recognized by a court ruling then it would be hard to deny for the average citizen they have been "had"...likely for decades already. No court has ruled anything in regards to Snowden (or Assange) so far. Actually, Assange (if he survives the current torture at the hands of the UK courts) has been ruined in the eyes of the public and will soon be put in some federal SuperMax prison where he would conveniently die of "natural causes". So, if we ever get any judicial recognition of what is going on it would have to be on Snowden's disclosures or this election. The latter being much more visible and likely to attract the attention of the general public. I think Trump did offer to pardon Snowden at some point, so that's that.

 

[Davsey85]

Lots of interesting insights on here

Yes it seems there is a degree of corruption
on both sides.I think the looters were irrational in damaging small businesses.And would be nice to see more empathy from Trump for Floyd and some action to address racism

For me the most important thing is ones civil liberties,access to good healthcare and not being overly dictated by govt.I agree with managing that it seems that the founders message contextually was for whites and the property of slaves within the time and believe that the story of the country evolves with civil rights protests,womans right to vote and new discoveries in science.

I think concepts of how govt should be run shouldnt be static but rather transient to new discoveries,paradigm shifts in information

 

[managing]

I hear you, but most average Joes/Janes think of Snowden as some obscure spook who uncovered some dirty deeds the govt was doing to OTHERS (whatever others means). If this election snafu leads to uncovering massive election rigging and that is actually officially recognized by a court ruling then it would be hard to deny for the average citizen they have been "had"...likely for decades already. No court has ruled anything in regards to Snowden (or Assange) so far. Actually, Assange (if he survives the current torture at the hands of the UK courts) has been ruined in the eyes of the public and will soon be put in some federal SuperMax prison where he would conveniently die of "natural causes". So, if we ever get any judicial recognition of what is going on it would have to be on Snowden's disclosures or this election. The latter being much more visible and likely to attract the attention of the general public. I think Trump did offer to pardon Snowden at some point, so that's that.

What election snafu?

In August, Trump said he would consider pardoning Snowden. He didn't offer to pardon Snowden. Snowden's attorney said that Snowden does not want to be pardoned, he wants to be absolved of any wrongdoing.

 

[Regina]

What if...both Dems and Reps have been rigging the system for years and both sides would prefer that not much noise is raised about it?
We saw what happened in 2000 and we see what is happening now. If there is indeed vote fraud on a level big enough to skew elections (especially close ones like the ones over the last 20 years), it would be quite expected that establishment on BOTH sides of the corrupt MSM would rage against any claims of fraud and attempt at investigation.
I think this is Trump's best chance to show if he is PRO or ANTI establishment. If his lawsuits uncover/prove fraud in just one state/instance, and especially if it implicates the state apparatus (NSA/CIA/FBI) then the house of cards we are locked in may very well collapse overnight. If the election system is definitively shown to be undermined then no portion of the government can be trusted even in the eyes of the average Joe (on both sides).

sounds about right.
But..."Democrat Sen. Chuck Schumer spoke of in glee, in response to then-president-elect Trump’s criticism of U.S. intelligence agencies. “Let me tell you: You take on the intelligence community — they have six ways from Sunday at getting back at you,”...
So there is the double bind.

 

[Regina]

Lots of interesting insights on here

Yes it seems there is a degree of corruption
on both sides.I think the looters were irrational in damaging small businesses.And would be nice to see more empathy from Trump for Floyd and some action to address racism

For me the most important thing is ones civil liberties,access to good healthcare and not being overly dictated by govt.I agree with managing that it seems that the founders message contextually was for whites and the property of slaves within the time and believe that the story of the country evolves with civil rights protests,womans right to vote and new discoveries in science.

I think concepts of how govt should be run shouldnt be static but rather transient to new discoveries,paradigm shifts in information

whose discovery in "science"?

 

[haidut]

What election snafu?

You don't think this Presidential election was a mess?

 

[haidut]

sounds about right.
But..."Democrat Sen. Chuck Schumer spoke of in glee, in response to then-president-elect Trump’s criticism of U.S. intelligence agencies. “Let me tell you: You take on the intelligence community — they have six ways from Sunday at getting back at you,”...
So there is the double bind.

Right, no doubt they can get at anybody, considering how quickly they go rid of JFK. Maybe a good portion of the "intelligence" agencies are just terror machines available to the highest bidder. Career criminals with total immunity/secrecy capable of global feats, who would do anything to defend their "profession".

 

[haidut]

Relevant discussion form Hacker News on "horizontal totalitarianism" - i.e. the govt now simply puts people against each other to implement most of the oppressive functions Orwell wrote about. As much as we do not want to admit it, many people around us, including in our own family, may be (albeit unwittingly) the enemy. As Michael Douglas said in the movie "Traffic" - "I do not know how you launch war on your own family..."
Just look at the discussion thread on HN below. Most of the comments are ad-hominem attacks on the article author...corroborating the very point of the article.
Horizontal Totalitarianism in Life and Literature ~ Sci Phi Journal
Horizontal totalitarianism in life and literature | Hacker News

 

[managing]

You don't think this Presidential election was a mess?

Do you mean campaigning or vote counting?

There is nothing normal about 2020 and I think campaigning falls right into line with it. Messy? Sure. But snafu implies something is "wrong" and I would need clarification of that.

Vote counting seems to have been yawningly similar to always before.

 

[haidut]

Do you mean campaigning or vote counting?

There is nothing normal about 2020 and I think campaigning falls right into line with it. Messy? Sure. But snafu implies something is "wrong" and I would need clarification of that.

Vote counting seems to have been yawningly similar to always before.

What about the unprecedented rate of mail-in voting compared to prior elections as well the constant fearmongering from one side trying to discourage voting in person? Do you think all of that was out of pure concern for the well-being of voters?

 

[Frankdee20]

A Michigan judge and a Georgia judge has just tossed out Trump’s respective lawsuits regarding the election process in those states.... They will never open a can of worms and entertain the notion that election integrity has been compromised

 

[managing]

What about the unprecedented rate of mail-in voting compared to prior elections as well the constant fearmongering from one side trying to discourage voting in person? Do you think all of that was out of pure concern for the well-being of voters?

Do you know that it wasn't?

Wasn't it unusual that "one side" was trying to invalidate mail-in voting? What do you think the motive was there?

But "unusual" is not proof of malfeasance by either "side". It isn't even suggestive of malfeasance. I've voted by mail for 20 years or so. My mother won't, but then she won't pay her bills online either.