Captain_Coconut
Member
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2018
- Messages
- 988
Well you are advocating for fasting/IF which do significantly raise cortisol and certain harmful catecholamines and IF is something done daily. IF means a constant daily interval say 16 hours, 20 hours etc. fasted. Large interval of the day running on stress hormones. If you have good liver health you have 8 hours of glycogen storage assuming you arent exerting yourself.
Autophagy is a catabolic process, when we are talking about healing wounds/self-repair of damaged organs autophagy is needed to eliminate dead/damaged cells to make room for new cells. Autophagy is only catabolic by definition though, you need anabolic processes to actually heal. You dont need fasting of any kind to heal wounds or heal damaged organs caused by PUFA, poor diet, elevated FFAs, etc. You need anabolic pathways and healthy thyroid function that can only do their job if you are fed properly, especially carbohydrates and protein. Autophagy is the clean up crew making room for anabolism to repair everything.
Starvation-induced autophagy isn't the same thing though. Yes, damaged cells or cellular junk are preferably targeted first to be destroyed when fasting but soon after even healthy cells will get eaten up, i.e. muscle tissue. If you fast for even 2 days straight, you are losing muscle tissue because you are eating yourself. Ray Peat says you even start losing muscle tissue sooner then that, i recall him saying in one of his interviews but don't know exact timeframes. IF isnt as bad because you wont lose muscle tissue necessarily with IF but you still have the daily chronic cortisol highs + noradrenaline etc.
You also assume protein is inheritantly hard on the kidneys. There is no evidence to suggest this is the case in humans unless you have an existing kidney condition. Weightlifters pound down minimum 150g protein for even the smallest guys and even higher the bigger you are, the more muscle you have. This low protein stuff originated from vegan, plant based crowd to discourage consumption of animal protein. Ray Peat himself recommends a minimum of 80-100g protein daily for thyroid, general health, and estrogen deactivation etc...
Im not being authoritative, you said in your previous post that children enter a fasted state quicker then adults? Uh... I think you got that flipped around.
Adults enter "fasted" states quicker then children because of poor liver glycogen, leading to chronic elevated FFAs. A fasted state by default means elevated FFAs, no liver glycogen. Children as long they eat good before bed, do not end up in a fasted state when sleeping... You are not suppose to be in a fasted state when sleeping if you can help it. You erroneously believe a fasted state is where healing happens.
Yeh, this is rats we are talking about here. If you are suggesting chronic protein restriction, even long term calorie restriction is beneficial for humans, there's literally no point in going with this. Of all the things to restrict the fact that our body is quite literally made of protein from head to toe is nonsensical. Humans have always consumed large quantities of animal protein in their diet when given the choice, there's a reason for that.
My definition for fasted state is simply when the stomach and small intestine is empty. Faster transit time means more autophagy at sleep. Children digest faster and more efficiently, therefore their organs get more time and energy to work on other tasks. I’m not advocating fasting or doing extreme IF. I am merely pointing out that autophagy and the strategies that support it which involve less and not more has value but you seem to hate this idea because you think the body constantly needs more and more, suit yourself.
I am not advocating protein deficiency, I’m advocating avoiding protein excess and intermittent protein fasting, this is superior to traditional or intermittent fasting in that it is very hard to cause stress or start running off adrenaline this way. Nonetheless I am certain that giving our organs a break from the digestive process allows our body to devote more energy to accomplish other important tasks for homeostasis.
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