Weight Loss: Starch And Trytophan Are What Are Stopping You

[Deleted member 5487]

I have had substantial weight loss.
I am Down 20lbs, muscle is way up, libido as well, fatigue is gone.
I am now a lean, muscular healthy individuals, without restrictive low carb/low fat/excessive excising.

Here's what I have found: It all comes down to hormones

1) All Tryptophan/Cysteine/Methanione and Insulin-Genic Starch are the culprits and disruptions of hormones.

2) Simply going "Low fat" messes with blood sugar swings, fat soul able vitamins, cholesterol production, and high circulating FFA(PUFA).

Diet:
Protein:
Full Fat Sheep and Goat Cheese= A2 Casein+Calcium+Fat
Homemade A2 milk Cottage Cheese
Gelatin/Collagen

This Keep Serotonin down and you will see a huge increase in mood/libido/testosterone

Carbs:
Apple Juice+Salt
Orange Juice+Sugar+Salt

Supplements:
Coffee
b2(strong serotonin antagonist)
vitamin e

You will become ravenously hungry and drop a ton of water weight in the first few days.

Take a gulp of milk/meat and the tryptophan methanione will bloat you up and slow everything down, you will realize the culperts all along.


Avoid:
Starchs=Insulin/Serotonin Producing
All Anti-Metabolic Amminos=Meat, Whey(milk)

 

[Cirion]

Good post that makes good points but I have to disagree on some points given my personal experiences. All fats cause weight gain for me, even SFA's. Starches aren't perfect, and if I over-do them I tend to get endotoxin, but if I over-do sugar I start to get teeth pain and insatiable appetite. I have a mix of starch and sugar to avoid either extreme. Carbs do not increase FFA'.s Not enough enough carbs/calories increase FFA's, because when your body runs out of fuel it starts to metabolize fats which of course increase FFA's. It's easy, however, to run out of fuel when eating pure carbs, because carbs in the absence of fats is like pure rocket fuel that burns fast. So you do have to eat extreme high carbs to avoid FFA's on a low fat diet, though. If I eat less than 800-1000 carbs a day on low fat, things seem to go downhill for me.

I think people like fat because it brings calories up and most people are in a calorie deficit without realizing it. Currently I'm playing with consuming 1,000 grams of carbs a day. Go big or go home. But, I eat virtually no fat, so no worries with randle cycle. My goal is to eat as high calorie as possible and not gain further weight, because this means I've increased my metabolic efficiency if I can eat more and not gain.

100% agree on tryptophan though. Tryptophan really messes me up. I eat virtually zero tryptophan diet now. So that means no milk, no cheese, no whey, no ice cream. Only proteins I eat are lean beef and gelatin. Getting rid of tryptophan was a huge positive change for me. So that part, you are 100% on the money. Some gelatin is key too, as you also noted.

I will say, that my opinions on starch are subject to change though given that I acknowledge that a certain dosage does increase serotonin like symptoms. It's definitely hard to find safe starches. Potatoes I can generally handle fairly large dosages. Bagels, despite being a processed food, seems relatively benign as well. If I do find more sugar sources that can shift me more towards sugar and not starch without the issues I was having with excessive sugars, I may be willing to shift more towards sugar though.

 

[aquaman]

Yeah I disagree that this is necessary. May be for you.

Personally I have easily lost 10 pounds in last 5-6 weeks by eating high protein 180g, 300g of carbs from starch and fruit, and moderate fat, around 60g.

Key had been tracking and planning, sleeping earlier, waking earlier, and walking a lot.

Starch combined with fruit keeps my blood glucose better than fruit by itself, don’t know why.

Edit: cutting out liquid calories makes a big difference too for me. Lots of whole fruit (cooked if necessary), no juice. Too much blood sugar fluctuation with juice

 

[Cirion]

Yeah I disagree that this is necessary. May be for you.

Personally I have easily lost 10 pounds in last 5-6 weeks by eating high protein 180g, 300g of carbs from starch and fruit, and moderate fat, around 60g.

Key had been tracking and planning, sleeping earlier, waking earlier, and walking a lot.

Starch combined with fruit keeps my blood glucose better than fruit by itself, don’t know why.

Yeah for me see the issue is "eating in moderation" just makes me feel like **** because I need 4000-5000 calories to feel good. The only way to be able to eat very high calorie and not get fat is to avoid the randle cycle (eat pure protein+carbs). The randle cycle dials down your metabolism and makes it so you get fatter on less calories. It may also satiate you on less calories, but it didn't for me so if I'm gonna eat a ton anyway, might as well make it a diet that won't make you fat easily (Pure carb). 5000 calories on a mixed fat-sugar diet will make you fat 100% guaranteed (and indeed, it did make me fat), so I ditched the fats. A diet of only 300 carbs and 60 fat sounds miserable, and I would not be able to do it. I'd always be hungry and moody. Lol. For me, the RC is triggered easily. My ideal is less than 20 gram a day. 40 gram seems to be the tipping point for me.

& Yeah, even the lean beef you gotta be careful. I did lots of experimentation, and I have arrived at an ideal amount of beef a day - 8 oz. Any less and I get protein deficiency symptoms, any more and I get serotonin symptoms and brain fog etc.

 

[LUH 3417]

You mix the homemade cottage cheese with gelatin? Sorry can you breakdown your protein a little more descriptively

 

[Deleted member 5487]

I threw this out there for people to try.

 

[Deleted member 5487]

You mix the homemade cottage cheese with gelatin? Sorry can you breakdown your protein a little more descriptively

Gelatin is seperate in warm water

 

[Tenacity]

Eating nothing but cheese and juice sounds awful.

 

[redsun]

I have had substantial weight loss.
I am Down 20lbs, muscle is way up, libido as well, fatigue is gone.
I am now a lean, muscular healthy individuals, without restrictive low carb/low fat/excessive excising.

Here's what I have found: It all comes down to hormones

1) All Tryptophan/Cysteine/Methanione and Insulin-Genic Starch are the culprits and disruptions of hormones.

2) Simply going "Low fat" messes with blood sugar swings, fat soul able vitamins, cholesterol production, and high circulating FFA(PUFA).

Diet:
Protein:
Full Fat Sheep and Goat Cheese= A2 Casein+Calcium+Fat
Homemade A2 milk Cottage Cheese
Gelatin/Collagen

This Keep Serotonin down and you will see a huge increase in mood/libido/testosterone

Carbs:
Apple Juice+Salt
Orange Juice+Sugar+Salt

Supplements:
Coffee
b2(strong serotonin antagonist)
vitamin e

You will become ravenously hungry and drop a ton of water weight in the first few days.

Take a gulp of milk/meat and the tryptophan methanione will bloat you up and slow everything down, you will realize the culperts all along.


Avoid:
Starchs=Insulin/Serotonin Producing
All Anti-Metabolic Amminos=Meat, Whey(milk)

Tryptophan can be problematic if you are eating foods high in it and can cause weight gain. But lets be honest here, saying meat is antimetabolic? Did you even look at the amino acid content of goat cheese? Semisoft goat cheese's methionine, tryptophan, and tyrosine levels are equivalent to lean beef(I used sirloin tip).

1 oz of sirloin tip no fat eaten has 8.5g protein in cronometer. 1.39 oz of goat cheese semi-soft is equivalent to 1 oz sirloin tip with both at 8.5g protein.

The methionine, tryptophan, and tyrosine content of the protein equivalent of 8.5g (1 oz sirloin tip or 1.39 oz goat cheese) is exactly the same. Both contain .2g methionine, .1g tryptophan, and .3g tyrosine.

The sirloin at 1 oz measures .1g cysteine while goat cheese at 1.39 oz(protein equivalent of the sirloin) still shows 0g cysteine but at 1.8 oz reaches .1g cysteine. So only .4 oz of cheese more to reach .1g cysteine.

There is virtually no difference in amino acid content between red meat and cheese in terms of tryptophan, methionine, and tyrosine(you didnt mention tyrosine but its incredibly important for antagonizing serotonin so it is relevant).

You think you were restricting methionine, completely wrong unless daily protein was brought down, cheese is high in methionine just like beef. Your goat cheese has the same amount of tryptophan as lean beef. Cysteine is nearly equivalent as well and so is tyrosine. Probably should do a bit more research, if you have personal trouble with red meat, you cant blame the amino acid content. Lean beef is perfectly fine to add to a low tryptophan diet.

You became ravenously hungry likely because the high fat cheese and fruit juice diet dropped your intake of essential amino acids(and protein intake in general), making you more hungry.

 

[Cirion]

You think you were restricting methionine, completely wrong unless daily protein was brought down, cheese is high in methionine just like beef.

This. ALL protein except maybe gelatin are problematic in excess. I seem to have an easier time controlling my weight on days I can bring my protein down to like 100 gram.

 

[redsun]

This. ALL protein except maybe gelatin are problematic in excess. I seem to have an easier time controlling my weight on days I can bring my protein down to like 100 gram.

Some cheeses like mozzarella and that orange american cheese are very high in tryptophan and should be avoided in favor of higher quality cheese high in tyrosine but low in tryptophan. I dont personally believe in methionine restriction being the answer or even protein restriction. What OP did here was ate a low tryptophan diet as well as a high tyrosine diet. Higher dopamine because of tyrosine drops water weight quite well. Restricting tryptophan is half the plot really. Tyrosine is necessary to antagonize serotonin by dopamine and drop weight. High dopamine drops water weight but also will drop actual weight as well given enough time. I do believe what he did worked, high carb combined with dopamine promoting diet, but this can be done with adding lean beef just as well not the mention how horrible it does sound to eat only cheese and juice like @Tenacity mentioned.

 

[aquaman]

I have had substantial weight loss.
I am Down 20lbs, muscle is way up, libido as well, fatigue is gone.
I am now a lean, muscular healthy individuals, without restrictive low carb/low fat/excessive excising.

Here's what I have found: It all comes down to hormones

1) All Tryptophan/Cysteine/Methanione and Insulin-Genic Starch are the culprits and disruptions of hormones.

2) Simply going "Low fat" messes with blood sugar swings, fat soul able vitamins, cholesterol production, and high circulating FFA(PUFA).

Diet:
Protein:
Full Fat Sheep and Goat Cheese= A2 Casein+Calcium+Fat
Homemade A2 milk Cottage Cheese
Gelatin/Collagen

This Keep Serotonin down and you will see a huge increase in mood/libido/testosterone

Carbs:
Apple Juice+Salt
Orange Juice+Sugar+Salt

Supplements:
Coffee
b2(strong serotonin antagonist)
vitamin e

You will become ravenously hungry and drop a ton of water weight in the first few days.

Take a gulp of milk/meat and the tryptophan methanione will bloat you up and slow everything down, you will realize the culperts all along.


Avoid:
Starchs=Insulin/Serotonin Producing
All Anti-Metabolic Amminos=Meat, Whey(milk)

How many calories? And what macro split?

 

[Cirion]

@redsun

How much tyrosine should you aim for a day to deplete serotonin?

 

[lampofred]

Serotonin just sucks in every way. It's the cause of poor sleep, excess rumination, not being in tune with your instincts, ADHD, autism, all neurodegenerative diseases, heart disease, everything. The only positive it has that I can think of is that it makes you wiser. It's truly a neurotransmitter of death.

 

[redsun]

@redsun

How much tyrosine should you aim for a day to deplete serotonin?

I mean there is no fixed number really, some use l-tyrosine supplements to help. Just increasing tyrosine from foods will start to help and avoiding high tryptophan foods will do a lot more. Its based on your own protein requirements. Just dropping all high tryptophan and other serotonin foods and replacing all proteins with high tyrosine content proteins is a good start. I recall beef has more tyrosine then chicken. Gouda cheese high in tyrosine then mozzarella.

People have tried depleting serotonin literally speaking by extreme tryptophan restriction and BCAAs, l-tyrosine, doesnt seem to work out too great in the long run from what I have read. That being said, serotonin depletion does work but extreme serotonin depletion through high dose artificial supplementation seems to cause side effects. Supplementation of L-tyrosine 2000mg a day is typically listed on tyrosine supplement labels.

 

[Cirion]

I mean there is no fixed number really, some use l-tyrosine supplements to help. Just increasing tyrosine from foods will start to help and avoiding high tryptophan foods will do a lot more. Its based on your own protein requirements. Just dropping all high tryptophan and other serotonin foods and replacing all proteins with high tyrosine content proteins is a good start. I recall beef has more tyrosine then chicken. Gouda cheese high in tyrosine then mozzarella.

People have tried depleting serotonin literally speaking by extreme tryptophan restriction and BCAAs, l-tyrosine, doesnt seem to work out too great in the long run from what I have read. That being said, serotonin depletion does work but extreme serotonin depletion through high dose artificial supplementation seems to cause side effects. Supplementation of L-tyrosine 2000mg a day is typically listed on tyrosine supplement labels.

I agree with your thoughts on supplements. I don't take supplements anymore. Food is my supplementation. I was just asking so I could get an idea how much to aim for, from foods.

 

[redsun]

I agree with your thoughts on supplements. I don't take supplements anymore. Food is my supplementation. I was just asking so I could get an idea how much to aim for, from foods.

L-tyrosine is pretty tame and safe with minimal side effects, I use it from time to time. I was just saying the extreme route(multiple supplements, high dose) is not too great. I try to aim for 5g tyrosine a day from food(this is based on my bodyweight and protein requirements) and I may add L-tyrosine to go even higher. I noticed having L-tyrosine early when I barely ate leads me to eating much less and I still end up with 5g tyrosine because of lack of appetite for proteins.

 

[Cirion]

Looks like I am getting somewhere around 3-4 gram tyrosine a day. Beef seems to have a very high tyrosine to tryptophan ratio. No wonder beef seems to be the only protein I do well on besides gelatin.

 

[redsun]

Looks like I am getting somewhere around 3-4 gram tyrosine a day. Beef seems to have a very high tyrosine to tryptophan ratio. No wonder beef seems to be the only protein I do well on besides gelatin.

I dont know if you can tolerate or even consume cheeses but using cheese for tyrosine will help bump up the ratio a bit in favor of tyrosine a little. It is difficult for me to get very high tyrosine from just lean beef and meats in general, cheese(such as gouda cheese) is an easy way to tilt the ratio even more if you dont want to use l-tyrosine. I take 1g L-tyrosine a day depending on if I feel like it, sometimes 2g. Just make sure to verify amino acid content of cheeses that you do choose to eat. Mozzarella is no go because of high tryptophan for example.

You dont necessarily have to aim for as high as possible tyrosine, likely the tyrosine:tryptophan ratio matters more its just my personal preference to aim higher.

 

[Cirion]

Yeah I don't do well on cheese. Plus I am eating a virtually zero fat diet, so all cheeses are no-go except de-fatted cheese that kraft makes which I believe is mozz, and yeah, that crap bloats me up like crazy. I've gained upwards of 3 lbs in one day due to that stuff. That's what sold me that tryptophan is the devil incarnate.