Thoughts On Excess Adrenaline

CLASH

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Any idea of what could cause chronic elevation of adrenaline in a 23 year old male, I have my own hypothesis but I’d like some other peoples perspectives to help broaden my own? symptoms: adrenaline rush every hour, profuse sweating from apocrine glands in armpit all day (no sweating at night, not triggered by eating, new large social situations can make it worse), BP 130-140/ 70, chronically cold feet even when they are under red light, reading on a electronic screens seems to make it worse.

For some context my family has never used vegetable oil, only butter and olive oil since i was very young. I Stopped eating all grains except for rice when I was a sophmore in highschool at 2011, i did however eat nuts, peanutbutter, nutella and lentils. I stopped this in my junior year of highschool in 2012; i was about 10% at these points of time (visible abs and serratus at rest). From 2013-2014 I was <10% bodyfat (veins visible on stomach) on low carb and IF 16/8 (my diet was beef, pastured eggs, butter, greens); I was eating 3000-4000kcal per day. From 2014-2015 i added carbs in the form of banana, plantain, fruit and white rice, went to 14% bodyfat but the only fats i was eating were from coconut oil, butter, olive oil; I was eating 5000kcal per day. I’ve been PUFA Free (<4g/2000kcal)/ peat principle friendly for almost 3 years straight (2015-present) with a period of 3 months eating less than 40g of fat with >90% coming from butter and one month attempting a less than 20g of fat a day diet from butter, I was eating between 3000-4000 kcal during this time. Also my body fat percentage has never been over 15% (i only reached this level while drinking milk during peating). I give the body fat percentage, as I doubt that I have much stored PUFA in my tissues, as when I was eating PUFA I was always very lean (not skinny fat lean either, i have worked out/ played sports my entire life). I give the calorie counts to show that I wasnt at a point where I was starving myself to any extreme extent. I started tracking my food in highschool because I wanted to workout. I got into counting macros in my sophmore to junior year, thats how I know the numbers.

My current diet (based on trial and error/ research) is beef, liver, kidney, heart, beef tallow, jasmine white rice, soda, honey, salt, kale, carrots and occassional shrimp, scallops and oysters (all the beef is grass fed and i cook all my food myself everyday). I have tested for food allergies which none of the above foods show positive for, for both delayed hypersensitivity allergies nor IgE mediated allergies. I tried milk and orange juice. I was doing well for a period with raw goat milk as i discussed previously, especially in comparison to cow milk however I eventually started to gain weight and the opioid effect became pronounced mentally over time even after adjusting quantities (the raw goat milk did however clear my gut issues). Gelatin/ collagen hydrolysate and I have never gotten along very well. Orange juice and fruit actually make me cold???? Coconut oil does not sit well for me. My current protein is 140g, fat 100g, carbs 400g.

I supplement K, D, energin, and aspirin sporadically. I used tocovit for about a year straight but eventually i had to taper it down because I think my estrogen was getting way too low, especially in combination with aspirin. I dont have a chronic underlying infection as evidenced by CBC results and stool testing for the gut. My waking temps are in the 97s, after each meal (i generally eat 4 a day) i go up to 98s and sometimes the upper 99s but in between meals I sit in the low 98s and sometimes the upper 97s.
 

ddjd

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You might find this useful. These are things that I've tested over last five years that decrease adrenaline for me. My hair sheds when my Adrenaline is high and it really pisses me off so I just take a variety of these things and it stops it;

Theanine
BCAA
Niacinamide
beta alanine
vitamin c
B6p5p
vit A retinol acetate/palmitate + zinc
vitamin E
biotin
Taurine
lysine
agmatine sulfate
caprylic acid
msm
Salt /bicarbonate of soda.
Inosine
clodinine
cyproheptadine
Pau D'arco
5aDHP
Inositol
Iodine lugols
 
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CLASH

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@Joeyd
Thanks for your response. I have tried a few of those however my intention is to determine the cause.
 

Andman

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hard to say without additional info, esp pulse to go with the temp, stress levels/lifestyle, mental wellbeing (anger/aggression issues? depression? apathy?)
 
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CLASH

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Pulse in the 60s generally except after eating, then it increases.
Low stress for the past few months, been able to be mostly on my own time and relax as much as id like. I do live in the north but i use 6 x 90 watt par 30 flood lights with halogen bulbs everyday for 15 min for light on my whole body and supplement vit d. No current anger nor depression. Just exhaustion from the constant adrenergic activation. No apathy, just alot of humor and satire :)
 

lampofred

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Your issue seems similar to mine. The only thing that truly helps is marijuana even though it's estrogenic. Sometimes I worry that too much milk is damaging my dopamine/GABA neurons and leaving acetylcholine unopposed (hence the high sweating) and marijuana reduces acetylcholine.

Do you have any issues with muscle tension or get stressed easily?
 

ddjd

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hard to say without additional info, esp pulse to go with the temp, stress levels/lifestyle, mental wellbeing (anger/aggression issues? depression? apathy?)
Histamine ties into Adrenaline release closely. As does high Serotonin. Id look into those two areas
 
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CLASH

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@lampofred
After a while milk wasnt doing me any favors mentally/ weight wise, I think its related to the hormones present in the milk and the opiate effect, but it definetly did help out my gut situation. Yes I do have muscle tension, a significant amount in my neck/ paraspinal muscles and the adrenaline rushes come very easily from almost everything I do except laying down on my back in meditation.

@Joeyd
I have looked into these areas, I dont think these are the route of my issue. I have played with many variations of diet and tried numerous supplements in regards to the serotonin aspect and im pretty sure ive nailed down a diet that limits irritation to my intestine. I have minimal bloating, no gas, normal bowel movements, no constipation, no diarrhea, no rashes, no cramping etc. Just the adrenaline rushes and sympathetic activity.
 
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CLASH

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@lampofred
If your interested, my main hypothesis and this goes into some of what @Prosper has discussed with hairloss is that the issue is posturally related. I think the atlas bone is out and the body is in a compensation pattern through the whole spine. With that muscles around the spine and neck are tonic causing compression of the sympathetic and parasympathetic ganglia along the spine chronically activating the autonomic system, particularly the sns branch. Also, if the atlas is out to a large extent blood flow to the brain/ scalp/ head could be impeded a bit increasing sympathetic activity to elevate the blood pressure to provide proper circulation to the cns. Chronic neck tightness, jaw issues, leg length discrepancies, uneven shoulders, tiltef heads are all signs of this. I tested my hypothesis as well by going to an atlas orthogonal chiropractor, the symptoms relieve themselves for a day when my atlas is tapped in, although once the sns shuts off I become exhausted, but the relief is only a day. Once i wake up the next morning my neck is tonic again and in pain. I also have ringing in my ears, eye twitches and jaw issues which correlate with the neck correction by the chiro. I dont think the atlas orthogonal is the cure itself but i think it provides a confirmation of the hypothesis.
 

mangoes

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@lampofred
If your interested, my main hypothesis and this goes into some of what @Prosper has discussed with hairloss is that the issue is posturally related. I think the atlas bone is out and the body is in a compensation pattern through the whole spine. With that muscles around the spine and neck are tonic causing compression of the sympathetic and parasympathetic ganglia along the spine chronically activating the autonomic system, particularly the sns branch. Also, if the atlas is out to a large extent blood flow to the brain/ scalp/ head could be impeded a bit increasing sympathetic activity to elevate the blood pressure to provide proper circulation to the cns. Chronic neck tightness, jaw issues, leg length discrepancies, uneven shoulders, tiltef heads are all signs of this. I tested my hypothesis as well by going to an atlas orthogonal chiropractor, the symptoms relieve themselves for a day when my atlas is tapped in, although once the sns shuts off I become exhausted, but the relief is only a day. Once i wake up the next morning my neck is tonic again and in pain. I also have ringing in my ears, eye twitches and jaw issues which correlate with the neck correction by the chiro. I dont think the atlas orthogonal is the cure itself but i think it provides a confirmation of the hypothesis.

I have similar issues, and my current hypothesis is basically the same. I'm not sure about the atlas bone, but yeah pinched/overactive nerve ganglia from the spine causing a chronic activation of the autonomic nervous system.

Can't add much to that other than I'm interested in having lidocaine injected into certain points along the spine, a study was done in Korea on a woman with chronic silent reflux and the lidocaine injections normalised her vagal response and fixed the reflux issues.
 
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CLASH

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@amaranthine
I dont think the atlas is the first cause but i think it/ the fascial system are the key to fixing the issue. The atlas is the first bone under the skull and if its subluxed it can effect the spinal cord, blood supply etc. Via muscle tension and direct pressure. It comes out of position in order to maintain center of gravity of the head and a neutral plane of vision for the eyes, along with other bones in the spine (check the righting reflex and the lovett brother hypothesis to see this). The whole body actually compensates to maintain these two positions. From what i understand the body is a system of tensegrity. Its a massive three dimensional web of fascia and muscle adhering to bone, where the bone isnt holding the body up directly, its merely serving as the structure with which the fascia and muscle are adhering to and creating tension to oppose gravity ( its in a similar fashion to a suspension bridge but with the tension in a 3d plane as opposed to mostly the vertical plane). Heres a picture of what im trying to explain.


Also, none of the muscles are seperate from eachother, they are all integrated into fascia and function in 3d chains across the body. This is starting to be reslized now with “fascial lines” dissections and research. So essentially tension in your scalp for hairloss could be related to issues with the feet and the arch if you look at these fascial lines (excess tension on the galea via the occipitalis muscle from say a flat foot could lead to blood vessel constriction and thus hypoxia inducing the chemical cascade we see with hairliss).

Advanced Anatomy: Myofascial Meridians

So if posture is not neutral, the system essnentially collapses on itself (imagine a suspension bridge being twisted out of its neutral position, it will literally implode on itself). I think this is what is happening with the body slowly over time once neutral is lost and depending on the pattern of implosion specific symptoms can develop. Obviously the biochemical components as well as electrochemical components discussed on the forum are just as important but i think this also plays a role. In studies comparing traditional indigenous peoples to industrialized peoples, when a load was added to the bodies (i think the head) of traditional peoples they expended less energy than without having the load on the bodies because this system im discussing becomes more efficient with the exogenous load. Whereas for industrialized people, more metabolic energy was expended. I have to find the study, but if you think about the intelligence of the human body with the righting reflex and the constant attempt to maintain a neutral head position over center gravity and a neutral plane of vision while the system is out if alignment you essentially have different areas carrying much more stress to maintain the position against gravity. With these compensation patterns the ganglia can be compressed as both of us have come to but if you use lidocaine will the system just adopt a new posture? Will the nerves stop being compressed? My question is how do we move the system back to neutral? In conjunction with discussing this, I wanted to see if maybe I missed some biochemical aspects that people on the forum would know about @haidut
 

Diokine

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@CLASH

You're on to some next level stuff, I hope it takes you where you want to go. Compression of the atlas and swelling of the brainstem structures represent a huge impediment to natural energy flow. Sitting the head on top of the spine correctly can be critical in regards to proper integration with reality. Pull your mind into the shapes you like, and your physiology will fall into place.
Foam rolling my spine has helped my digestion more than anything (well except for not eating bogus food.)

I would look into dopaminergic/cholinergic signalling in your case. I think you have good sympathetic tone but maybe the sensitivity is a little low, requiring extra pushing occasionally. How is your sense of smell? I suspect you may have a tendency to hyperventilate as well, this can cause cyclic issues with pH and autonomic balance similar to what you are describing. Perhaps try 1/2tsp of baking soda around 10AM, or occasional bag breathing. Any issues with the gut will make balance harder to maintain. I have had trouble with rice before and in general am close to zero starch, but you may tolerate it better.

What's your activity level like? You may be pushing carbohydrates or sugars too hard if it's low, this can increase sympathetic activity and loss in sensitivity. Are you getting enough calcium and potassium in your diet? Are you getting lots of sunshine? Some vitamin D may help with sympathetic sensitivity.
 
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danishispsychic

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adrenal tumor? hyperthyroid? cushings? i had to stop eating meat because it made my adrenaline go crazy. ( i mean, the fear is IN the meat ) also if you have low blood pressure tendencies, ( pathogens , worms ) ( an NO you will not get a straight answer on that from any stool test usually ) from infection your adrenaline/cortisol will rise. additionally if you have any kind of hypoglycemia ( mine started when i attempted to be paleo) your sugar will drop a lot and you adrenaline and cortisol will rise. rice make my blood sugar go koo koo pops and then the drop comes . if i eat it at night, i get heart racing. i finally just gave it up.
 
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CLASH

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@Diokine
Thanks for taking the time to reply.

Next level in regards to my sympathetic symptoms?

I actually set my thoracic vertebrae in place everyday with two lacrosse balls taped together to take the pressure off the ganglia, its the only thing that gave me relief prior to the chiro (although i think in the long term its hurting me because im switching constantly between on and off with the sns) so I can attest to the foam rolling. I have meditated on this multiple times but there are alot of pieces out of place so its hard to focus on the correct visualization to align the body. My spine is acutally twisted and rotated such that my left hip is back, my right shoulder is forward. The spine twists from my experience to avoid creating an excessice kyphosid at the thoracic region and the lordosis at the lumbar region as greater curvature means greater horizantal force against the discs and structure. Its really an ingenious maneuver to be honest. So my heads atop my body in a neutral plane but the structure below is all crooked underneath so the visualization is actually across the entire spine (i visualize the issue and solution often :)).

Yes i think my tone is still intact, my body hasnt given out yet from the overactivity. The sensitivity is low due to the chronic activation from the positioning I think, leading to this requirement for strong surges to the system. My sense of smell is actually too good, wierdly enough I can smell sinus infections and some womens periods. I can also smell different ethnicities and im super sensitive to chemicals, i cant wear or be around perfumes at all. In regards to hyperventilating, I actually hold my breath alot because of the muscle tension, its almost like my body cant breath while doing other things because the muscles are in contraction to hold me up (paraspinals, internal/external oblique, QL, tva, pelvic floor are all tonic; basically the corset. My body hasnt given out yet from the overactivity).

I actually went for months without starch, made no difference, just a little less bloat at the end of the day, but I was ravenous without it. I think the constant sympathetic activity is ramping up fatty acids in my blood and the starch causes and insuling spike to lower them. Luckily I think im PUFA depleted because of age and diet as described above so its not killing me but im definetly in a suboptimal state from the adrenaline.

I lift every other day alternating upper and lowe body with a deload every 3rd cycle to avoid fatigue. I pyramid up and deload following the GAS curve of selye basically. Im never out of breath from lifting btw and I avoid too demanding cns movements like squats and deads (because of the cns stuff with my sns overactivity but also because my structure isnt optimal to support the weight right now as described above). As for carb overloading, ive seen the studies but I had the sweating issue wen I was in keto to. Also, im 6’2” 202lbs at about 12% bodyfat right now so I think the carbs are ok, especially to eat enough cals. Vit D3 is in range as measured from labs, i supplement 2000iu per day topically. I live up north but only for the past 8 months prior to this I lived in miami for 4 years and tanned almost everyday (still made no difference). Also i sit under 6 x 90watt par 30 halogen flood lights everyday for 10-15 min. Calcium/ pottasium made no difference in the sns activity (i did goat milk for 5 months at 1/2 gallon a day, prior to this i tried cow milk and oj for 6 months, prior to this i was on oj and i supplemented calcium; all made no difference).
 
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CLASH

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@danishispsychic
Thanks for your reply, alot of avenues here.

I dont think I have pheochromocytoma, i did look into that tho (my bp isnt that high, no headaches, no lab indications of any cancer; my ldh was actually below range by alot???)

Definetly not hyper, my temps and tsh dont correlate, nor do the cold feet.

I dont thinks its cushings, no blood sugar issues, no abdominal obesity (i still have my abs visible), no muscle wasting, no stretch marks, no hyerlipidemia or hypertryglycemia.

I stopped eating meat (except for shrimp and scallops 4oz of either per day) for 4 months while doing milk and oj, no difference.

I dont have low bp tendencies. As for the stool test I actually did three from doctors data with eaching being a 3 day collection, looking at blood, bacteria parasites, inflammatory markers and using I think both PCR and culturing. All came back negative. I did have strep, staph and klebsiella in the stool but goat milk goat rid of all of it. Rice may have brought back the klebsiella, pretty normal from what I understand for starch consumption.

No blood sugar issues I think. I tried with only sucrose, i tried with only fruit no rice or sucrose, i tried fruit and sucrose, i tried just rice, i tried rice with fat and fiber, i tried rice with just fat, i tried sucrose with fat and fiber, i did keto. I always eat my carbs with a meal so its meat, starch, fat, sucrose, carrot fiber, kale fiber and salt altogether in one meal (i dont think its a GLycemic issue). I also eat 4 meals a day about 4 hours apart each, the sweating happens at all points before, during and after eating, it doesnt follow a glucose/ insulin curve at all. My HgbA1C is actually below the refernce range, my blood sugar after 100g of carbs in a meal and then going to get a blood test was in the 90s... i get the adrenaline rushes and sweating when i wake up in the morning before i have even eaten anything. I dont get any sleepiness after eating rice or sucrose. I dont think cortisol is high, just adrenaline (i probably will get labs soon tho).
 
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CLASH

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@mayweatherking
I appreciate the response.
You are 100% correct in that.
I am getting labs once I start my new job in 2 weeks and am on the health insurance.

I have had basic labs twice in the past Year all out of pocket with no insurance so I am holding off on the third batch. the labs included cbc, liver and basic kidney tests, prolactin, lipids, TSH and vit D3. I need to get full thyroid panel, parathyroid hormone and perhaps some steroid hormone labs. Everything was within peaty ranges except for prolactin when I was on milk (milk put me above the 7ng/dl mark mentioned by danny roddy, i was 12 ng/dl) and tsh, i was 2 for both tests. Also a bit wierd but my LDH was 80 for both test but the range was 120-224, also my alkaline phosphatase s was below range and my platelets have been below range by 1-5 points for years.
 
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@mayweatherking
I appreciate the response.
You are 100% correct in that.
I am getting labs once I start my new job in 2 weeks and am on the health insurance.

I have had basic labs twice in the past Year all out of pocket with no insurance so I am holding off on the third batch. the labs included cbc, liver and basic kidney tests, prolactin, lipids, TSH and vit D3. I need to get full thyroid panel, parathyroid hormone and perhaps some steroid hormone labs. Everything was within peaty ranges except for prolactin when I was on milk (milk put me above the 7ng/dl mark mentioned by danny roddy, i was 12 ng/dl) and tsh, i was 2 for both tests. Also a bit wierd but my LDH was 80 for both test but the range was 120-224, also my alkaline phosphatase s was below range and my platelets have been below range by 1-5 points for years.

oh cool, what do you mean, the milk increased it?
 
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CLASH

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My prolactin went up from baseline when I started drinking milk. I also gained weight and had some mental symptoms as well (lack of motivations, feelings of laziness, lack of sexual interest although I could have sex and get erections, slight euphoria after drinking milk; cow milk and cheese caused these symptoms in a much more pronounced way).
 
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danishispsychic

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@danishispsychic
Thanks for your reply, alot of avenues here.

I dont think I have pheochromocytoma, i did look into that tho (my bp isnt that high, no headaches, no lab indications of any cancer; my ldh was actually below range by alot???)

Definetly not hyper, my temps and tsh dont correlate, nor do the cold feet.

I dont thinks its cushings, no blood sugar issues, no abdominal obesity (i still have my abs visible), no muscle wasting, no stretch marks, no hyerlipidemia or hypertryglycemia.

I stopped eating meat (except for shrimp and scallops 4oz of either per day) for 4 months while doing milk and oj, no difference.

I dont have low bp tendencies. As for the stool test I actually did three from doctors data with eaching being a 3 day collection, looking at blood, bacteria parasites, inflammatory markers and using I think both PCR and culturing. All came back negative. I did have strep, staph and klebsiella in the stool but goat milk goat rid of all of it. Rice may have brought back the klebsiella, pretty normal from what I understand for starch consumption.

No blood sugar issues I think. I tried with only sucrose, i tried with only fruit no rice or sucrose, i tried fruit and sucrose, i tried just rice, i tried rice with fat and fiber, i tried rice with just fat, i tried sucrose with fat and fiber, i did keto. I always eat my carbs with a meal so its meat, starch, fat, sucrose, carrot fiber, kale fiber and salt altogether in one meal (i dont think its a GLycemic issue). I also eat 4 meals a day about 4 hours apart each, the sweating happens at all points before, during and after eating, it doesnt follow a glucose/ insulin curve at all. My HgbA1C is actually below the refernce range, my blood sugar after 100g of carbs in a meal and then going to get a blood test was in the 90s... i get the adrenaline rushes and sweating when i wake up in the morning before i have even eaten anything. I dont get any sleepiness after eating rice or sucrose. I dont think cortisol is high, just adrenaline (i probably will get labs soon tho).

and im sure you have tried magnesium right? high adrenaline in the am might be blood sugar issues. and im sure you have ruled out hashimotos right? i had a 8 ft long tape worm that multiple tests didnt catch. i had blasto that 4 tests didnt catch. you might try making your gut totally sterile, weather is be mms, h2o2, or antibiotics. die off is adrenaline. dont get all cozy with all the testing here in the US, so much of is is really outdated compared to other countries. ( big pharma, big med ) do you KNOW your cortisol is not high??? have you had a thyroid scan? have you had your adrenals scanned? is your liver in good shape? strep, staph all lead to parasite infection.... just saying. try getting your gut germ free and dont take probiotics. or just disregard all that i am writing. im pretty good at diagnosis....youll see.
 
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