Thoughts On Excess Adrenaline

[ddjd]

@Joeyd
I have looked into these areas, I dont think these are the route of my issue. I have played with many variations of diet and tried numerous supplements in regards to the serotonin aspect and im pretty sure ive nailed down a diet that limits irritation to my intestine. I have minimal bloating, no gas, normal bowel movements, no constipation, no diarrhea, no rashes, no cramping etc. Just the adrenaline rushes and sympathetic activity

Some other thoughts;

- What are your copper levels like. Try some beef liver and see if that warms them up.

- lower nitric oxide with lysine or hydroxy b12. This works for me.

- selenium levels. Raises my temps very well.

- b1 thiamine

- high estrogen causing it. Try some Progesterone.

- vitamin A levels?

- try bicarb soda

 

[Prosper]

My question is how do we move the system back to neutral?

@CLASH to fix posture, it is not enough that you stretch and massage muscles. You have to tense and flex them too. If you have misaligned posture, you have muscles that are inactive and paralyzed. No matter how much you workout, you will not get them to wake up, because the act of waking them up is very close to what intuitively feels like injurying yourself and therefore you have learned to avoid it during heavy lifts.

At this moment, take your shoulders and pull or push them as hard as you can to any direction until you experience pain or are simply unable to move them any further. You will probably experience painful spasm all around the torso and shoulder area. These are previously inactive muscles that are now returning to your conscious control. When that happens, they will also gain some muscle tone, making them firmer and restoring some of postural stability. Now start doing the same for your whole body. Experiment with tensing the full fascia slings you talk about. Find a way to use the torque generated by your feet to guide the whole rotational "force" through your hips, into the spine and eventually to the skull & arms. You will assume yoga-like stances where the body is twisted in one of its directional maximum range of movement. Your bones and cartillage will crack a lot, and week by week you stand a little straighter.

An active musculature maintains posture effortlessly. You will never need to stretch or massage it, simply using the body in a wholesome way in your daily activities is enough to maintain great anatomy for the rest of your life. On the other hand, ONLY stretching will never give you a good posture.

 

[mangoes]

@CLASH

Whoa, that's all really interesting. You've given me a lot of food for thought. I'll watch the video when I have some more time to, and I'll definitely look into the atlas bone and the fascial system. I definitely think you're on to something.

 

[fradon]

Any idea of what could cause chronic elevation of adrenaline in a 23 year old male, I have my own hypothesis but I’d like some other peoples perspectives to help broaden my own? symptoms: adrenaline rush every hour, profuse sweating from apocrine glands in armpit all day (no sweating at night, not triggered by eating, new large social situations can make it worse), BP 130-140/ 70, chronically cold feet even when they are under red light, reading on a electronic screens seems to make it worse.

For some context my family has never used vegetable oil, only butter and olive oil since i was very young. I Stopped eating all grains except for rice when I was a sophmore in highschool at 2011, i did however eat nuts, peanutbutter, nutella and lentils. I stopped this in my junior year of highschool in 2012; i was about 10% at these points of time (visible abs and serratus at rest). From 2013-2014 I was <10% bodyfat (veins visible on stomach) on low carb and IF 16/8 (my diet was beef, pastured eggs, butter, greens); I was eating 3000-4000kcal per day. From 2014-2015 i added carbs in the form of banana, plantain, fruit and white rice, went to 14% bodyfat but the only fats i was eating were from coconut oil, butter, olive oil; I was eating 5000kcal per day. I’ve been PUFA Free (<4g/2000kcal)/ peat principle friendly for almost 3 years straight (2015-present) with a period of 3 months eating less than 40g of fat with >90% coming from butter and one month attempting a less than 20g of fat a day diet from butter, I was eating between 3000-4000 kcal during this time. Also my body fat percentage has never been over 15% (i only reached this level while drinking milk during peating). I give the body fat percentage, as I doubt that I have much stored PUFA in my tissues, as when I was eating PUFA I was always very lean (not skinny fat lean either, i have worked out/ played sports my entire life). I give the calorie counts to show that I wasnt at a point where I was starving myself to any extreme extent. I started tracking my food in highschool because I wanted to workout. I got into counting macros in my sophmore to junior year, thats how I know the numbers.

My current diet (based on trial and error/ research) is beef, liver, kidney, heart, beef tallow, jasmine white rice, soda, honey, salt, kale, carrots and occassional shrimp, scallops and oysters (all the beef is grass fed and i cook all my food myself everyday). I have tested for food allergies which none of the above foods show positive for, for both delayed hypersensitivity allergies nor IgE mediated allergies. I tried milk and orange juice. I was doing well for a period with raw goat milk as i discussed previously, especially in comparison to cow milk however I eventually started to gain weight and the opioid effect became pronounced mentally over time even after adjusting quantities (the raw goat milk did however clear my gut issues). Gelatin/ collagen hydrolysate and I have never gotten along very well. Orange juice and fruit actually make me cold???? Coconut oil does not sit well for me. My current protein is 140g, fat 100g, carbs 400g.

I supplement K, D, energin, and aspirin sporadically. I used tocovit for about a year straight but eventually i had to taper it down because I think my estrogen was getting way too low, especially in combination with aspirin. I dont have a chronic underlying infection as evidenced by CBC results and stool testing for the gut. My waking temps are in the 97s, after each meal (i generally eat 4 a day) i go up to 98s and sometimes the upper 99s but in between meals I sit in the low 98s and sometimes the upper 97s.

do you haVE SCOLIOSIS or any spinal problems that can create problesm with adreanals and kidneys.

Also could your body be detoxing heavy metals since you eat a lot of organ meats and even beef. They can act as stimulants because of all the b vitamins and iron/zinc/copper. if your adrenals are on overdrive then you are over methylating. try eating some folate rich vegetables like turnip greens but avoid synthetic folate.

i was having adreanal and heart issues and turns out my spine has several bad herniated disks and my spine was pressing on my lungs and kidneys. Now i'm doing two main yoga poses down ward dog and upward dog and they stretching my spine out. my symptons are getting better.

 

[CLASH]

Hello all,
So I spent sometime reflecting on everyones suggestions (thanks everyone for the input and the time) and I wound up going down a few rabbit holes researching, hence why I havent participated much on the forum. So as for the posture related stuff, @Prosper @amaranthine In conjunction with the video I posted, and the fascial lines/ anatomy trains stuff I stumbled on a chiropractic method that attempts to address these systems I discussed via manipulation of the fascial lines in the upper cervical area. They do not deal with subluxations of the vertebrate by direct manipulation, instead they seek to readdjust the myofascial system and let the bones fall in place. The system is called QSM 3 and its founder is russel friedman. Heres a link to a video series from his training with other chiros about the philosophy/ concepts behind the system:

To some people he may be a bit conceited and authoritarian but the info is pretty good in my opinion.

The second piece I found, after @Diokine statements specifically in regards to rice, when I removed all starch I dropped 6lbs in 2 days all from my abdomen. The hot flashes stopped although I still sweat. The sweating did decrease tho, i still soak a shirt but I definetly dont drip all over the place. Also im less lethargic, feel like I have unlimited energy and my temps went up. In conjunction with this I was thinking back to the time when I had the least bowel issues (bloating etc.) and it was in the keto/ low carb days. I started to research mechanisms in the context of my experiences (journal articles were what I was reading not paleoleap.com, i promise.... also the jaminets perfect health diet keeps coming to mind, as does some weston A. Price accounts of fatty ancient cultures particularly the discussion of rabbit starvation with the native american tribes subsisting on buffalo) and what I came upon (its obviously only been a few days so take everything i say with a grain of salt) but i think to avoid bacterial issues in the intestine for some susceptible people enough fat has to be eaten. I think the fat stimulates the small intestine via multiple pathways, stimulates bile acid releases, enhances enzymes such as sucrase, helps to deal with endotoxin by not only bringing it to the liver but also upreulating the livers detox of endotoxin and by slowing transit in some portions of the small intestine to enhance absorption in particular areas. The jaminet piece comes in because they discuss the different fatty acid compositions and amounts taken in by different contexts such as a breastfeeding baby, ruminant animals, gorillas, chimps and a fasting human (not taken in here but produced by the body via catabolism). An example of this is that the gorilla actually eats about a 50% fat diet from fermentative products. Now our colons and gi tracts arent the same, were larger with the small intestine so we specialize more in absorption as opposed to fermentation but still perhaps that fatty acid requirement is still the same? Also, i know not “peat approved” and i havent fully reseaeched this currently, i tried in the past but didnt get much of anywhere but I think that perhaps different body systems (muscular system) may preferentially use fatty acids. I know that this is sorta common knowledge, atleast in the kinesiology textbooks talking about muscular metabolism at rest but I couldnt find specific info on it so its not primary. In this case perhaps instead of thinking in terms of requirements of macros in solely an energy sense perhaps we can think of macro terms in a threshold based need for different bodily contexts. For example:

Carbs: nervous, thyroid/metabolic, reproductive, hormonal function

Fats: digestive, muscular, hepatic, structural, hormonal function

Protein: hepatic, structural, muscular function

(When I say we above, it was general, not neccessarily specific to anyone participating. Perhaps some of you already think in this way or perhaps have moved past this context into others.)

 

[Douglas Ek]

Hello all,
So I spent sometime reflecting on everyones suggestions (thanks everyone for the input and the time) and I wound up going down a few rabbit holes researching, hence why I havent participated much on the forum. So as for the posture related stuff, @Prosper @amaranthine In conjunction with the video I posted, and the fascial lines/ anatomy trains stuff I stumbled on a chiropractic method that attempts to address these systems I discussed via manipulation of the fascial lines in the upper cervical area. They do not deal with subluxations of the vertebrate by direct manipulation, instead they seek to readdjust the myofascial system and let the bones fall in place. The system is called QSM 3 and its founder is russel friedman. Heres a link to a video series from his training with other chiros about the philosophy/ concepts behind the system:

To some people he may be a bit conceited and authoritarian but the info is pretty good in my opinion.

The second piece I found, after @Diokine statements specifically in regards to rice, when I removed all starch I dropped 6lbs in 2 days all from my abdomen. The hot flashes stopped although I still sweat. The sweating did decrease tho, i still soak a shirt but I definetly dont drip all over the place. Also im less lethargic, feel like I have unlimited energy and my temps went up. In conjunction with this I was thinking back to the time when I had the least bowel issues (bloating etc.) and it was in the keto/ low carb days. I started to research mechanisms in the context of my experiences (journal articles were what I was reading not paleoleap.com, i promise.... also the jaminets perfect health diet keeps coming to mind, as does some weston A. Price accounts of fatty ancient cultures particularly the discussion of rabbit starvation with the native american tribes subsisting on buffalo) and what I came upon (its obviously only been a few days so take everything i say with a grain of salt) but i think to avoid bacterial issues in the intestine for some susceptible people enough fat has to be eaten. I think the fat stimulates the small intestine via multiple pathways, stimulates bile acid releases, enhances enzymes such as sucrase, helps to deal with endotoxin by not only bringing it to the liver but also upreulating the livers detox of endotoxin and by slowing transit in some portions of the small intestine to enhance absorption in particular areas. The jaminet piece comes in because they discuss the different fatty acid compositions and amounts taken in by different contexts such as a breastfeeding baby, ruminant animals, gorillas, chimps and a fasting human (not taken in here but produced by the body via catabolism). An example of this is that the gorilla actually eats about a 50% fat diet from fermentative products. Now our colons and gi tracts arent the same, were larger with the small intestine so we specialize more in absorption as opposed to fermentation but still perhaps that fatty acid requirement is still the same? Also, i know not “peat approved” and i havent fully reseaeched this currently, i tried in the past but didnt get much of anywhere but I think that perhaps different body systems (muscular system) may preferentially use fatty acids. I know that this is sorta common knowledge, atleast in the kinesiology textbooks talking about muscular metabolism at rest but I couldnt find specific info on it so its not primary. In this case perhaps instead of thinking in terms of requirements of macros in solely an energy sense perhaps we can think of macro terms in a threshold based need for different bodily contexts. For example:

Carbs: nervous, thyroid/metabolic, reproductive, hormonal function

Fats: digestive, muscular, hepatic, structural, hormonal function

Protein: hepatic, structural, muscular function

(When I say we above, it was general, not neccessarily specific to anyone participating. Perhaps some of you already think in this way or perhaps have moved past this context into others.)

How are you doing? Any news? Have you investigated iron deficiency. Often an overlooked cause of cold hands and feet. Was for me at least. Makes sense that it worsens with aspirin and vitamin E as both are blood thinners and you can loose as much as 20ml blood extra per day from dosing aspirin alone. Long term this would increase iron deficiency resulting in lower liver deiodinaise enzyme that helps convert T4 to active T3 and instead you produce higher reversed T3. If you don’t believe any of it make a quick google. I think you’re not high adrenaline but low thyroid function possibly?

 

[CLASH]

@Douglas Ek
Increased my fat to 40%-50% of my calories from beef tallow and coconut oil and my sweating decreased by 70-80%. I only sweat now if i havent eaten for more than 5 hours and/or i have been stressed. Definetly not iron deficiency, at one point my hemoglobin was 18 from all the organ meat I was eating but I appreciate the consideration. I donate blood regularly and have moderated my organ meat intake and balanced it with seafood.

I found that my posture is distorted, I think from adhesions I have in my abdominal wall/ musculature from two surgeries I had; these adhesions force the musculature in the LLQ to contract, especially under stress as the fascia is knotted up. I have been massaging them out and my body has been able to relax much more. The adhesions and subsequent tightness have also been irritating some of my pelvic nerves and the musculature. I find i often hold my breath for long periods when i’m standing because of the contraction closing down my abdominal wall. When I start breathing again, I warm righy back up

 

[sladerunner69]

@CLASH to fix posture, it is not enough that you stretch and massage muscles. You have to tense and flex them too. If you have misaligned posture, you have muscles that are inactive and paralyzed. No matter how much you workout, you will not get them to wake up, because the act of waking them up is very close to what intuitively feels like injurying yourself and therefore you have learned to avoid it during heavy lifts.

At this moment, take your shoulders and pull or push them as hard as you can to any direction until you experience pain or are simply unable to move them any further. You will probably experience painful spasm all around the torso and shoulder area. These are previously inactive muscles that are now returning to your conscious control. When that happens, they will also gain some muscle tone, making them firmer and restoring some of postural stability. Now start doing the same for your whole body. Experiment with tensing the full fascia slings you talk about. Find a way to use the torque generated by your feet to guide the whole rotational "force" through your hips, into the spine and eventually to the skull & arms. You will assume yoga-like stances where the body is twisted in one of its directional maximum range of movement. Your bones and cartillage will crack a lot, and week by week you stand a little straighter.

An active musculature maintains posture effortlessly. You will never need to stretch or massage it, simply using the body in a wholesome way in your daily activities is enough to maintain great anatomy for the rest of your life. On the other hand, ONLY stretching will never give you a good posture.

Contrary to that last sentence, what you describe as "yoga-like stances" sounds an awful lot like stretching.

 

[Lokzo]

Hey guys,

As someone with LOW cortisol, I want to see evidence that suggests that to compensate, Adrenaline levels are high.... Does anyone have any solid evidence to suggest this inverse relationship?

 

[GreekDemiGod]

i had to stop eating meat because it made my adrenaline go crazy.

 

[danishispsychic]

Update ! I do eat meat now but balance with dairy and not too much .

 

[gaze]

@CLASH did you ever end up getting your PTH checked?

 

[CLASH]

@gaze
No I didnt, MD wouldnt give me labs, too expensive to pay for everything out of pocket. I'm in NP school now to change that reality for people, if I can. Why do you ask?

 

[gaze]

@gaze
No I didnt, MD wouldnt give me labs, too expensive to pay for everything out of pocket. I'm in NP school now to change that reality for people, if I can. Why do you ask?

i'm just interested in PTHs effects on adrenaline/lactic acid. did you get the adrenaline problem fixed?

 

[CLASH]

i'm just interested in PTHs effects on adrenaline/lactic acid. did you get the adrenaline problem fixed?

I did, indeed. Its not one thing but a
system of things usually with singular triggers on top of a particular context. It took me a while to determine but I've made some headway.

 

[laleto12]

I did, indeed. Its not one thing but a
system of things usually with singular triggers on top of a particular context. It took me a while to determine but I've made some headway.

I have the exact problems that you've mentioned in your posts. Can you please explain what you have done to resolve the problems? Up to date

 

[CLASH]

A few different things have helped over time:
1) I had some scar tissue and chronically tight muscles that once I broke up and released, respectively, the adrenaline rushes decreased significantly. The tightness was mainly in my abdomen.
2) I found foods that were irritating my intestines and causing issues in my colon and eliminated those. The colonic issues seemed to manifest about 24 hours later for me, specifically in the region of my sigmoid colon.
3) I made sure to eat enough food and in particular for me, enough fat.
4) I used herbal anti-microbial to eliminate what seemed to be some latent/ chronic gut dysbiosis/ gut infections.

Much of my issue seemed to be related to my gut. I still do get the adrenaline symptoms but they are rare now and only occur with things that irritate my GI tract. With severe irritation my abdominal muscles will tighten up again. For me this all began after having a pretty stressful period in my life and an abdominal surgery. My psoas are the muscles that tend to contract and provide much of the discomfort as they shut down my breathing (they are directly connected to the diaphragm by a fascial sheath) and create an uncomfortable posture.

 

[golder]

A few different things have helped over time:
1) I had some scar tissue and chronically tight muscles that once I broke up and released, respectively, the adrenaline rushes decreased significantly. The tightness was mainly in my abdomen.
2) I found foods that were irritating my intestines and causing issues in my colon and eliminated those. The colonic issues seemed to manifest about 24 hours later for me, specifically in the region of my sigmoid colon.
3) I made sure to eat enough food and in particular for me, enough fat.
4) I used herbal anti-microbial to eliminate what seemed to be some latent/ chronic gut dysbiosis/ gut infections.

Much of my issue seemed to be related to my gut. I still do get the adrenaline symptoms but they are rare now and only occur with things that irritate my GI tract. With severe irritation my abdominal muscles will tighten up again. For me this all began after having a pretty stressful period in my life and an abdominal surgery. My psoas are the muscles that tend to contract and provide much of the discomfort as they shut down my breathing (they are directly connected to the diaphragm by a fascial sheath) and create an uncomfortable posture.

Extremely useful post, thank you very much. out of curiosity, what were the foods you found contributed most to the GI irritation? Since the increased fat intake helped a lot, did you think ox bile would’ve helped alongside? Could you let me know the dose and brand the anti-microbials that you found benefit from. Much appreciated and I hope you continue to improve!