High Adrenaline & Cortisol, Hypothyroid, Adrenal Fatigue, How To Fix?

[kineticz]

I advise anyone with problems to try a good source of fructose. It has changed my life, hence i haven't been on here much. Sorry.

Yay for sugar.

Fructose has literally complimented all my recent Peatarian changes and my resilience has shot up astronomical. I can now proceed with my ambitions and make up for precious lost time struggling with social anxiety, low willpower, etc that all derive from reliance on adrenaline.

 

[tara]

I advise anyone with problems to try a good source of fructose. It has changed my life, hence i haven't been on here much. Sorry.

Yay for sugar.

Fructose has literally complimented all my recent Peatarian changes and my resilience has shot up astronomical. I can now proceed with my ambitions and make up for precious lost time struggling with social anxiety, low willpower, etc that all derive from reliance on adrenaline.

Did you try similar amounts of sugar from fruit, honey etc or even plain sucrose before you added the fructose to such good effect?

 

[kineticz]

I advise anyone with problems to try a good source of fructose. It has changed my life, hence i haven't been on here much. Sorry.

Yay for sugar.

Fructose has literally complimented all my recent Peatarian changes and my resilience has shot up astronomical. I can now proceed with my ambitions and make up for precious lost time struggling with social anxiety, low willpower, etc that all derive from reliance on adrenaline.

Did you try similar amounts of sugar from fruit, honey etc or even plain sucrose before you added the fructose to such good effect?

I was consuming litres of orange juice a day, and the reduction in adrenaline symptoms was apparent but short-lasting.

I read about sucrose when I came across the article on fructose and cholesterol. I haven't tried sucrose, is it something you feel even superior to fructose?

Like I said, I was quick to blast the view that sugar was good, but getting wound up with pregnenolone theory I bypassed any mention that sugar produced cholesterol but only fructose was efficient at replenishing the liver. At least now I know how the liver, not the adrenals, is central to the HPTA.

I have very high T3, could never find why it wasn't getting into cells; I just believe now that my adrenals and liver were starved of glucose. Something so basic has made me suffer for the last 14 years.

 

[ravster02]

I advise anyone with problems to try a good source of fructose. It has changed my life, hence i haven't been on here much. Sorry.

Yay for sugar.

Fructose has literally complimented all my recent Peatarian changes and my resilience has shot up astronomical. I can now proceed with my ambitions and make up for precious lost time struggling with social anxiety, low willpower, etc that all derive from reliance on adrenaline.

Did you try similar amounts of sugar from fruit, honey etc or even plain sucrose before you added the fructose to such good effect?

I was consuming litres of orange juice a day, and the reduction in adrenaline symptoms was apparent but short-lasting.

I read about sucrose when I came across the article on fructose and cholesterol. I haven't tried sucrose, is it something you feel even superior to fructose?

Like I said, I was quick to blast the view that sugar was good, but getting wound up with pregnenolone theory I bypassed any mention that sugar produced cholesterol but only fructose was efficient at replenishing the liver. At least now I know how the liver, not the adrenals, is central to the HPTA.

I have very high T3, could never find why it wasn't getting into cells; I just believe now that my adrenals and liver were starved of glucose. Something so basic has made me suffer for the last 14 years.

Since you're in the UK, which fructose brand are you using? And where are you buying it from? And how much are you taking?

 

[tara]

Yeah, looks like another case of under-eating energy-deficiency stress. Are you now getting ~3000 cals, plenty of Ca, Mg, P, Na, B-vits, etc, along with your increased sugar?

Sucrose breaks down to half fructose, half glucose. Fruits and honey vary in proportions, but have a lot of both. OJ has a lot of water, and too much water can unbalance things for some people. It's hard to get enough carb calories from fruit juice if your metabolism isn't running strongly enough to handle all the water.

Fructose just seems a more refined, less accessible food than sucrose, which is fairly ubiquitous. And like sucrose brings no minerals and vitamins etc with it. But as long as you are getting plenty of those from other foods etc, and it's working, I don't see a reason to stop. Some people do seem to benefit from going fructose heavy for a while. If it stops tasting good somewhere down the line, I guess that would be a clue to change something then.

 

[kineticz]

Yeah, looks like another case of under-eating energy-deficiency stress. Are you now getting ~3000 cals, plenty of Ca, Mg, P, Na, B-vits, etc, along with your increased sugar?

I still need to work on my cals, 3000 in a day is some very frequent cooking and preparation, I'm still trying to get my head around what foods are best but require least effort.

Mineral wise I'm getting most of those, good quality milk, the sea salt, a b-complex vit, I am also using 1g vitamin B5 which helps in getting the fructose to be converted to cholesterol for the adrenal cortex. I eat a lot of potatoes for potassium, the only mineral I don't get on well with is magnesium - it seems to calm down my energy systems almost too much and increases anxiety. I know it is a CNS inhibitor. I guess I have grown used to a lot of fear based control in my life but I'm hoping to grow out of that when the body moves over to glycogen and increased metabolic rate/increased testosterone. My last testosterone was low-normal so I have that to contend with, which we all know testosterone modulation is taxing on the adrenals so that's another challenge ahead. But first I want to see what a nourished liver can do as it is central to T3 conversion and CHOL.

I'm going to stick with fructose, the minerals, serotonin blocking, as I almost feel like Superman with this fructose. It hit my like a lightning bolt, you can see in my pictures at school where I had high adrenaline. It is clear now this happens when a low basal metabolic rate makes the pituitary and adrenals overcompensate for thyroid management of energy expenditure. The liver sits in the middle having all these trigylcerides, toxins, etc passing through and it slows down. It is a protective way of informing the body it is being overworked.

Out of all the theorists in the area of 'adrenal fatigue', several make a great case and are technically correct but nobody cuts to the heart of it like Dr Ray Peat.

On another well known forum, the moderators advise to 'put back pregnenolone' using supplements but I have found this to be riddled with problems. You can apply pregnenolone, and due to low metabolic rate, it will reduce your ACTH, and increase adrenaline. Their answer is then to increase T3, but T3 can quickly make you pregnenolone deficient, and increase adrenaline. So it swings both ways.

The better approach is the Peat approach. Fructose, low serotonin, sodium, high calories, avoid commercial meats. This way is the body's way of getting back online. It is obvious the liver is central to health before anything else, and all it needs is the right type of sugar! Like I said, fruits and juice did not provide this impact. Anything else is arbitrary and based on mitigating stress we all face. If you get a handle on that you can open up the adrenal mitochondria, maximise pregnenolone storage and slowly work your way down the cascades for optimum youthfulness.

Hopefully my E2 is going up as well now. This might be why I had such low E2 which as you said is unusual and can be due to energy exhaustion.

Thanks Tara

 

[kineticz]

Since you're in the UK, which fructose brand are you using? And where are you buying it from? And how much are you taking?

Hi ravster

I'm using a source well regarded by the cycling community for their goals

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/310732429250? ... EBIDX%3AIT

I take 4-6 scoops a day. It also has a high sodium content so they obviously are on board with us in the benefits of sodium.

 

[kineticz]

Also, I can attest to how vitamin A in the right form significantly increases steroidgenesis, my DHT and assertiveness shoot up on it. It has effects similar to thyroid, too much seems to promote diseconomies of scale due to sluggish liver-adrenal axis. Peat is bang on the money.

 

[tara]

I still need to work on my cals, 3000 in a day is some very frequent cooking and preparation, I'm still trying to get my head around what foods are best but require least effort.

Depends how picky you are going to be. I'd say get the food in anyway you can enjoy, still avoiding PUFAs etc, and improve on it as you figure out how. Take a squiz at recipe section, or general online recipes you can adapt. You can see why some people go for icecream and chocolate.

Mineral wise I'm getting most of those, good quality milk, the sea salt, a b-complex vit, I am also using 1g vitamin B5 which helps in getting the fructose to be converted to cholesterol for the adrenal cortex. I eat a lot of potatoes for potassium, the only mineral I don't get on well with is magnesium - it seems to calm down my energy systems almost too much and increases anxiety. I know it is a CNS inhibitor. I guess I have grown used to a lot of fear based control in my life but I'm hoping to grow out of that when the body moves over to glycogen and increased metabolic rate/increased testosterone. My last testosterone was low-normal so I have that to contend with, which we all know testosterone modulation is taxing on the adrenals so that's another challenge ahead. But first I want to see what a nourished liver can do as it is central to T3 conversion and CHOL.

Long-term undereating could be the root cause for the low testosterone, high adrenaline, low thyroid, etc. I'm not aware of it being scientifically controversial that it can have these effects (but I may not be widely enough read to know). It might not be the whole story, but you won't know till you get the nutrition in place.

Even if you it doesn't work for you to get all your sugar from fruit/juice, if you can get in 1l OJ, it's a good source of a few goodies. Or if not OJ, some other fruit or juice. Leafy greens are another source of magnesium, as is coffee, if it agrees with you. And/or you can supplement. You may find the effects of this and lots of things are different once you are providing enough fuel.

Peat generallly recommends as clean a source of NaCl as you can find, rather than sea salt (or iodised free-flow table salt, or Himalayan pink salt, etc), but it may be a minor point in the scheme of things for you.

Feeling tired/calm may be a signal that your body is relieved the crisis is over, and now wants to sleep and rest to recover.

 

[kineticz]

Long-term undereating could be the root cause for the low testosterone, high adrenaline, low thyroid, etc. I'm not aware of it being scientifically controversial that it can have these effects (but I may not be widely enough read to know). It might not be the whole story, but you won't know till you get the nutrition in place.

Even if you it doesn't work for you to get all your sugar from fruit/juice, if you can get in 1l OJ, it's a good source of a few goodies. Or if not OJ, some other fruit or juice. Leafy greens are another source of magnesium, as is coffee, if it agrees with you. And/or you can supplement. You may find the effects of this and lots of things are different once you are providing enough fuel.

Peat generallly recommends as clean a source of NaCl as you can find, rather than sea salt (or iodised free-flow table salt, or Himalayan pink salt, etc), but it may be a minor point in the scheme of things for you.

Feeling tired/calm may be a signal that your body is relieved the crisis is over, and now wants to sleep and rest to recover.

As always a pleasure reading your insight :)

What is the best source of NaCl? Salt does help me a lot in it's own way and mine isn't particularly hard to come by so if I can get better I will. I'll also add 1l OJ back in.

 

[tara]

Peat recommends Morton's canning and pickling salt - think it's supposed to be pretty pure.

 

[kineticz]

Wow that salt is £30 on Amazon in the UK :O

 

[ravster02]

Since you're in the UK, which fructose brand are you using? And where are you buying it from? And how much are you taking?

Hi ravster

I'm using a source well regarded by the cycling community for their goals

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/310732429250? ... EBIDX%3AIT

I take 4-6 scoops a day. It also has a high sodium content so they obviously are on board with us in the benefits of sodium.

Thanks, their sachet packs look like a great option for travelling.

 

[ravster02]

Wow that salt is £30 on Amazon in the UK :O

Search Amazon UK for 'kosher salt', the 1.36kg is the best option since it's additive and iodine free.

 

[kineticz]

Wow that salt is £30 on Amazon in the UK :O

Search Amazon UK for 'kosher salt', the 1.36kg is the best option since it's additive and iodine free.

Cheers ravster

 

[Strongbad]

Hi, kineticz, good to see you solve most of the problems with simple diet tweak (fructose powder), but I don't understand this:

I have very high T3, could never find why it wasn't getting into cells; I just believe now that my adrenals and liver were starved of glucose. Something so basic has made me suffer for the last 14 years.

So your adrenals and liver were starved of glucose, but you solved it by adding fructose (powder) into your diet? I don't get it :? Glucose is typically found in starchy food like rice and potatoes, not fructose-based food like fruits and honeys.

Sucrose breaks down to half fructose, half glucose. Fruits and honey vary in proportions, but have a lot of both. OJ has a lot of water, and too much water can unbalance things for some people. It's hard to get enough carb calories from fruit juice if your metabolism isn't running strongly enough to handle all the water.

Tara, per your recommendation, I cut down huge portion of OJs and Milk and replace them with raw honey, cottage cheese and greek yogurt. It's been about a week now and my temp is a little better now, about a few tenth degree higher, maybe .5 or .6 degrees. I still ramp up my calories between 2500-3000ish daily, just with less liquid. Water retention issue is minimized now, I don't feel bloated anymore, so I can eat more solid food without having to forcefeed myself. IME, hypo people shouldn't follow the default Peatarian diet: lots of OJs and Milk. Go for the solid substitutes, instead.

I'm going to stick with fructose, the minerals, serotonin blocking, as I almost feel like Superman with this fructose. It hit my like a lightning bolt, you can see in my pictures at school where I had high adrenaline. It is clear now this happens when a low basal metabolic rate makes the pituitary and adrenals overcompensate for thyroid management of energy expenditure. The liver sits in the middle having all these trigylcerides, toxins, etc passing through and it slows down. It is a protective way of informing the body it is being overworked.

IMO, liver function is rarely-discussed in the forum. I think you're on to something, because I've been peating for almost 2+ months and my temp still hovers between high 95F to high 96F degrees. My calorie intake is between 2500 to 3000 nowadays, and if I'm lucky I'd hit mid or high 97F sometime during the day. But I've never hit 98F. Never. As if something is holding back the conversion of all these calories of Peat nutrient-rich food into energy/body heat. With all the focus on hypothyroid, we forget to focus on the other half of the equation: the liver.

 

[kineticz]

I have very high T3, could never find why it wasn't getting into cells; I just believe now that my adrenals and liver were starved of glucose. Something so basic has made me suffer for the last 14 years.

So your adrenals and liver were starved of glucose, but you solved it by adding fructose (powder) into your diet? I don't get it :? Glucose is typically found in starchy food like rice and potatoes, not fructose-based food like fruits and honeys.

I'm going to stick with fructose, the minerals, serotonin blocking, as I almost feel like Superman with this fructose. It hit my like a lightning bolt, you can see in my pictures at school where I had high adrenaline. It is clear now this happens when a low basal metabolic rate makes the pituitary and adrenals overcompensate for thyroid management of energy expenditure. The liver sits in the middle having all these trigylcerides, toxins, etc passing through and it slows down. It is a protective way of informing the body it is being overworked.

IMO, liver function is rarely-discussed in the forum. I think you're on to something, because I've been peating for almost 2+ months and my temp still hovers between high 95F to high 96F degrees. My calorie intake is between 2500 to 3000 nowadays, and if I'm lucky I'd hit mid or high 97F sometime during the day. But I've never hit 98F. Never. As if something is holding back the conversion of all these calories of Peat nutrient-rich food into energy/body heat. With all the focus on hypothyroid, we forget to focus on the other half of the equation: the liver.

The key difficultly with Peat's work is he is anti-ACTH, fair enough, but if your adrenal mitochondria are not strengthened to handle and generate pregnenolone more efficiently then they will always rate limit any attempts to boost calories etc.

This is where norephiprene and low blood sugar during cardio exercise, for example, can be used strategically via ACTH to strengthen adrenal mitochondria and then you replenish the liver with fructose to provide the LDL they adrenals are crying out for.

Doing this while minimising serotonin and fatty acids is a key strategy that works best for me.

If you're not getting sufficient output it's possibly due to genetic-setpoint of ACTH, which can only be over-rided by norephiprene afaik.

If you always minimise ACTH with simple sugars the adrenals, I believe, will only ever produce a certain (relatively low) amount of hormones. Serotonin stimulates cortisol and ACTH but minimises the stress perception and reduces mitochondrial respiration, whereas norephiprene significantly enhances mitochondrial respiration. This is why I prefer norephiprene to serotonin during hypothyroidism. Things like BCAA's boost norephiprene well for me. Norephiprene is far superior to training the adrenals to suck in raw materials. This is where targetting ACTH and low blood sugar during exercise I believe is good for adrenal output, as long as you replenish using fructose and pregnenolone.

When you reduce ephiprene and serotonin, norephiprene goes up, and is very effective at strengthening pregnenolone transfer into the adrenals. Whatever is going on with triglycerides and cholesterol is the liver's way of telling you whether the adrenals or thyroid need work. Usually under prolonged hypothyroidism it is best to uncover the suffocated adrenal mitochondria before using T3.

 

[Strongbad]

Ok so to clarify, in order to "unsuffocate" adrenal mitochondria and strengthening it to suck in more raw materials, everyday I have to not eat for an hour or so then do cardio workout, then once I'm done I need to stuff myself with fructose powder/oj/raw honey? Exercising itself increases norephiprene along with lean meat and dairy product as part of the diet. I read the BCAA's thread and the side-effects themselves are too risky for me to even try. I'll go with the natural-food route.

I also assume based on what you're saying that fructose powder itself doesn't solve the suffocated mitochondria issue.

 

[tara]

IMO, liver function is rarely-discussed in the forum.

Have you read this thread? viewtopic.php?f=10&t=5525

Edit: Sorry, I see you found that thread already.

 

[Greg says]

RE: High5 Energy Source Fructose Energy Drink Powder...is the Maltodextrin OK?

Maltodextrin, Fructose (32%), Food Acid (Citric Acid, Malic Acid), Acidity Regulators (Tri Sodium Citrate, Potassium Citrate), Natural Flavourings (Lemon, Lime), Sea Salt (0,3%).