I Need Help To Grow Back My Receding Hairline. [20yo MALE]

[mrchibbs]

I'd suggest reading Danny Roddy's site and his book, which I think might still be free. A hair-centric approach misses the point.

Danny's book is very interesting. When I first read it, I was like WTF is this? I can't understand anything. Years later I picked it back up and it made more sense. It still holds its own after nearly 7 years. Very professionally written and every time you re-read it, there's more stuff to understand.

His articles since then have been very good too, I strongly recommend them, they're good material to read, and re-read and in particular, explore his references too.

 

[Frankdee20]

The only time I got good hair growth was back in 2006, and I was using DHEA...I’m not denying hair can grow back if it’s due to some deficit, but anecdotal stories are very limited

 

[Kenny]

Danny's book is very interesting. When I first read it, I was like WTF is this? I can't understand anything. Years later I picked it back up and it made more sense. It still holds its own after nearly 7 years. Very professionally written and every time you re-read it, there's more stuff to understand.

His articles since then have been very good too, I strongly recommend them, they're good material to read, and re-read and in particular, explore his references too.

I really like the idea of Danny and his research, but I honestly have yet to see some get REAL clear results following his advice. There is pretty much no photo evidence and barely if any legitimate testimonial evidence. I hope with all my heart he is right and its all just curable with diet/pufas/prolactin but I just feel like it can't be the case or some of this thousands of viewers/readers would have taken at least some pictures.

I am not well versed enough to comment on his science or his research. It all looks legitimate to me, but I just can't seem to get my hopes up about peating/danny roddying to grow hair back or halt hair loss. It also seems like his info has been around long enough (almost a decade) for it to have really picked up traction if it were effective.

 

[Ableton]

I really like the idea of Danny and his research, but I honestly have yet to see some get REAL clear results following his advice. There is pretty much no photo evidence and barely if any legitimate testimonial evidence. I hope with all my heart he is right and its all just curable with diet/pufas/prolactin but I just feel like it can't be the case or some of this thousands of viewers/readers would have taken at least some pictures.

I am not well versed enough to comment on his science or his research. It all looks legitimate to me, but I just can't seem to get my hopes up about peating/danny roddying to grow hair back or halt hair loss. It also seems like his info has been around long enough (almost a decade) for it to have really picked up traction if it were effective.

you underestimate how long it takes to regrow hair
You overestimate peoples ability to stick to protocols
Heck you can read from 5 people here that they had signs of regrowth and still stopped/altered w/e they were doing

 

[mrchibbs]

I really like the idea of Danny and his research, but I honestly have yet to see some get REAL clear results following his advice. There is pretty much no photo evidence and barely if any legitimate testimonial evidence. I hope with all my heart he is right and its all just curable with diet/pufas/prolactin but I just feel like it can't be the case or some of this thousands of viewers/readers would have taken at least some pictures.

I am not well versed enough to comment on his science or his research. It all looks legitimate to me, but I just can't seem to get my hopes up about peating/danny roddying to grow hair back or halt hair loss. It also seems like his info has been around long enough (almost a decade) for it to have really picked up traction if it were effective.

I understand your feeling totally Kenny. If you just scroll up in this thread you'll see that you're not alone in your skepticism. I don't know about this firsthand because I do not hang out around hair loss forums, but Danny has written about the "balding personality" in one of his articles, and basically it's just another name for learned helplessness induced by a serotonergic state which is a key feature of MPB. People are frustrated, losing hair is terrible, and they want solutions, and that makes people mad and unpleasant sometimes. The entire culture has convinced us that balding is 'genetics' (and genes have nothing to do with it whatsoever) and basically can't be reversed. This state of things means that whenever someone tries to dig into the science like Danny has done, they get insulted, or people ask for a "protocol", or they ask for pics...

Danny doesn't ask for pictures, he's not selling any protocol, and moreover, I think the evidence Danny has accumulated and presented over the past 7 years is clear: hair loss is a serious serious problem and is strongly associated with hypothyroidism, cardiovascular problem, ibs you name it. It's not cosmetic. And reversing hair loss is not merely growing back hair, it's undoing the effects of years of stress and fixing the environmental problems in your life which cause the stress. And that is hard as hell. In his last article (published 2 years ago), Danny talks about how, for a young person losing hair, the fix can be as simple as getting more sun and drinking milk. I totally agree, based on the science (sun and milk basically suppress parathyroid totally, which is intimately implicated in hair loss)

Additionally, I suspect 99% of the people who start learning about Ray, Danny etc. never put their hearts into learning and applying themselves to really change their lives. Of the 1% who actually do it, most never think about taking before/after pictures, and those who do, are often not inclined to share them, and when people do share pictures, they're never satisfactory for the crowd. I've seen many instances of regrowth online and in person at this point to know that it is not that extraordinary an occurrence. If you want pictures, the best ones have always been the pictures compiled by Rob S. English at perfecthairhealth.com. I've long wanted Danny to invite Rob for an interview, not because I think Rob is totally right in his approach, but because he's a genuine nice guy and in his original book (2014-2016) he talked about many of the same underlying things that Danny, and Ray talk about, and I know firsthand that himself and the guys who regrew hair (like Jared, one of the pictures on the site) had largely fixed their lifestyle and thyroid problems before regrowth, and many actually were consulting with Danny at the same time as they were with Rob.

It takes an immense amount of effort, and research and courage to apply yourself and change your circumstances. For instance, I think massage is helpful, but not when the underlying problems of stress and metabolic deficiency are not dealt with. In these situations, massage can simply cause unresolved inflammation, worsening the scalp conditions and increasing fibrosis instead of healing from it.

And trust me, no matter how many times I write comments in threads and cite references, there's always somebody new who asks the same questions over and over again. It gets tiring to have to write the same comment over and over. In the end we're all responsible for our own agency, and we each should do our own research. I have about a thousand notes on the topic of hair loss, and I've been writing a long article about it, which I will post on my blog when its done, as a reference. I think it's better to do research, take control of our lives and discuss this topic in a constructive matter. The more you read and learn, the more hopeful you'll be, I promise.

 

[Kenny]

I understand your feeling totally Kenny. If you just scroll up in this thread you'll see that you're not alone in your skepticism. I don't know about this firsthand because I do not hang out around hair loss forums, but Danny has written about the "balding personality" in one of his articles, and basically it's just another name for learned helplessness induced by a serotonergic state which is a key feature of MPB. People are frustrated, losing hair is terrible, and they want solutions, and that makes people mad and unpleasant sometimes. The entire culture has convinced us that balding is 'genetics' (and genes have nothing to do with it whatsoever) and basically can't be reversed. This state of things means that whenever someone tries to dig into the science like Danny has done, they get insulted, or people ask for a "protocol", or they ask for pics...

Danny doesn't ask for pictures, he's not selling any protocol, and moreover, I think the evidence Danny has accumulated and presented over the past 7 years is clear: hair loss is a serious serious problem and is strongly associated with hypothyroidism, cardiovascular problem, ibs you name it. It's not cosmetic. And reversing hair loss is not merely growing back hair, it's undoing the effects of years of stress and fixing the environmental problems in your life which cause the stress. And that is hard as hell. In his last article (published 2 years ago), Danny talks about how, for a young person losing hair, the fix can be as simple as getting more sun and drinking milk. I totally agree, based on the science (sun and milk basically suppress parathyroid totally, which is intimately implicated in hair loss)

Additionally, I suspect 99% of the people who start learning about Ray, Danny etc. never put their hearts into learning and applying themselves to really change their lives. Of the 1% who actually do it, most never think about taking before/after pictures, and those who do, are often not inclined to share them, and when people do share pictures, they're never satisfactory for the crowd. I've seen many instances of regrowth online and in person at this point to know that it is not that extraordinary an occurrence. If you want pictures, the best ones have always been the pictures compiled by Rob S. English at perfecthairhealth.com. I've long wanted Danny to invite Rob for an interview, not because I think Rob is totally right in his approach, but because he's a genuine nice guy and in his original book (2014-2016) he talked about many of the same underlying things that Danny, and Ray talk about, and I know firsthand that himself and the guys who regrew hair (like Jared, one of the pictures on the site) had largely fixed their lifestyle and thyroid problems before regrowth, and many actually were consulting with Danny at the same time as they were with Rob.

It takes an immense amount of effort, and research and courage to apply yourself and change your circumstances. For instance, I think massage is helpful, but not when the underlying problems of stress and metabolic deficiency are not dealt with. In these situations, massage can simply cause unresolved inflammation, worsening the scalp conditions and increasing fibrosis instead of healing from it.

And trust me, no matter how many times I write comments in threads and cite references, there's always somebody new who asks the same questions over and over again. It gets tiring to have to write the same comment over and over. In the end we're all responsible for our own agency, and we each should do our own research. I have about a thousand notes on the topic of hair loss, and I've been writing a long article about it, which I will post on my blog when its done, as a reference. I think it's better to do research, take control of our lives and discuss this topic in a constructive matter. The more you read and learn, the more hopeful you'll be, I promise.

Thanks for the reply Mr. Chibbs. This whole process is so frightening to me, and I certainly do feel really helpless. Seeing all my shedding breaks my heart and leaves me in a depressed state. I think for now I'm going to try going down the Rob English route and see if that gets me anywhere. I'm very much looking forward to your blogpost.

 

[Ableton]

Thanks for the reply Mr. Chibbs. This whole process is so frightening to me, and I certainly do feel really helpless. Seeing all my shedding breaks my heart and leaves me in a depressed state. I think for now I'm going to try going down the Rob English route and see if that gets me anywhere. I'm very much looking forward to your blogpost.

I stopped my hairloss by fixing anemia, then adding milk, and getting on protocol of daily sun exposure. I did that without reading that from Roddy, too. i considered what I was not getting with my lifestyle (avoided dairy/no sun in winter) and had blood work that indicated calcium deficiency. Vit d, ca, vit k are an intertwined axis, so I targeted it. And it worked.
It does not mean it will work for you, tho it might.
do not just blindly jump on a protocol, that’s cope! Although milk/sun is by far your best shot, if you want to shoot in the blind imo.
Consider what is wrong with you, then take agency over your situation.
Jumping blindly on a protocol = avoiding agency
My experience: stopping hair loss is very much doable. Regrowth is very hard. If you have hair, do not wait

 

[mrchibbs]

Thanks for the reply Mr. Chibbs. This whole process is so frightening to me, and I certainly do feel really helpless. Seeing all my shedding breaks my heart and leaves me in a depressed state. I think for now I'm going to try going down the Rob English route and see if that gets me anywhere. I'm very much looking forward to your blogpost.

Good luck to you. Start learning and you'll feel less helpless with time. My only advice is to be careful with the massages - start gently -.
If you want to stop your shedding, eat well and spend a lot of time in the sun this summer. That will stop almost all hair loss, trust me I've been in your shoes.

 

[mrchibbs]

I stopped my hairloss by fixing anemia, then adding milk, and getting on protocol of daily sun exposure. I did that without reading that from Roddy, too. i considered what I was not getting with my lifestyle (avoided dairy/no sun in winter) and had blood work that indicated calcium deficiency. Vit d, ca, vit k are an intertwined axis, so I targeted it. And it worked.
It does not mean it will work for you, tho it might.
do not just blindly jump on a protocol, that’s cope! Although milk/sun is by far your best shot, if you want to shoot in the blind imo.
Consider what is wrong with you, then take agency over your situation.
Jumping blindly on a protocol = avoiding agency
My experience: stopping hair loss is very much doable. Regrowth is very hard. If you have hair, do not wait

Haha milk/sun sounds so simple that I feel like people think I'm a retard when I suggest those two things for stopping hair loss. But I know very well that when I initially lost hair quickly in my early 20s, I was getting no milk, and no sun, for years. It fixes pretty much everything. Hindsight is always a b****.

 

[Ableton]

Haha milk/sun sounds so simple that I feel like people think I'm a retard when I suggest those two things for stopping hair loss. But I know very well that when I initially lost hair quickly in my early 20s, I was getting no milk, and no sun, for years. It fixes pretty much everything. Hindsight is always a b****.

i think you can still have hair loss despite that, but it’s a huge aspect and easiest to fix. Undereatimg, overtraining and coffee abuse/overactive adrenals were issues involved in my hair loss as well. Probably also head shape as a result of inflammation resulting in hair line recession, with which my hair loss started (I drank milk and got sun at that point)
I think my diffuse loss starting at around age of 24 and visible at 26= metabolic problem, high tsh as result of anemia, d and ca deficiency
My hairline recession starting at like age 18 = adrenal problem through cal deficiency/coffee abuse resulting in overproduction of androgens, early hirsutism, maybe partly bc of head shape and poor posture (atp) resulting in inflammation, as well as higher pufa then now obviously

milk and sun will only work for some types being my point. It did not stop my initial hair loss recession

for estrogenic/slow oxidizing man the story will be completely different and my anecdotes of no relevancy. Hence take agency and research yourself

 

[Kenny]

I stopped my hairloss by fixing anemia, then adding milk, and getting on protocol of daily sun exposure. I did that without reading that from Roddy, too. i considered what I was not getting with my lifestyle (avoided dairy/no sun in winter) and had blood work that indicated calcium deficiency. Vit d, ca, vit k are an intertwined axis, so I targeted it. And it worked.
It does not mean it will work for you, tho it might.
do not just blindly jump on a protocol, that’s cope! Although milk/sun is by far your best shot, if you want to shoot in the blind imo.
Consider what is wrong with you, then take agency over your situation.
Jumping blindly on a protocol = avoiding agency
My experience: stopping hair loss is very much doable. Regrowth is very hard. If you have hair, do not wait

This seems like really great advice. I have definitely not been getting much sun in the past year or two, I've been trying to recently. I've also been avoiding milk like the devil as my acne tends to get more inflamed when I'm on it. I have, however, been taking D3 supplements for ages as I was deficient in high school. Do you think that drinking Kefir instead of milk would be a good substitute for the milk? I do care a lot more about my hair than about my acne and i love milk so if not I don't mind just chugging it down. Thanks ableton!

I think the most logical step for me would be to get blood work done, though the quarantine might complicate things. I've also found that doctors can be really bitchy about giving bloodtests. When I went to a derm to see if i had MPB he took one look at my NW1.5/NW2 said its genetics kid and the only blood test I can give you for this is to see if you have an auto immune disorder. WTF!?

 

[Summer]

Alright guys. It’ll damage the skin but the hair will be totally fine. Fine if you don’t grow your hair past 1/4 inches that is.

 

[Ableton]

This seems like really great advice. I have definitely not been getting much sun in the past year or two, I've been trying to recently. I've also been avoiding milk like the devil as my acne tends to get more inflamed when I'm on it. I have, however, been taking D3 supplements for ages as I was deficient in high school. Do you think that drinking Kefir instead of milk would be a good substitute for the milk? I do care a lot more about my hair than about my acne and i love milk so if not I don't mind just chugging it down. Thanks ableton!

I think the most logical step for me would be to get blood work done, though the quarantine might complicate things. I've also found that doctors can be really bitchy about giving bloodtests. When I went to a derm to see if i had MPB he took one look at my NW1.5/NW2 said its genetics kid and the only blood test I can give you for this is to see if you have an auto immune disorder. WTF!?

hair loss means you have some sort of health problem.
Your doc will not acknowledge this however.
Do this: you go to the doctor and tell him you feel very off, always tired despite getting sleep and being fine psychologically. I did this as well, it was true tho lol.
Don’t mention you take d.

the doc will do blood tests on you that will be helpful. He will def test your thyroid (tsh, t3, t4), iron, probably serum calcium and magnesium, d levels and several other stuff not so related to hair directly.
Prob tell him you are vegetarian too, so he tests your calcium and iron for sure.
There is nothing wrong with getting a free blood test every couple of years, if you can’t afford it tell them lies. Not your fault health system does not see hair loss as a physiological/psychological problem.
You want to know what your thyroid does, iron and calcium/mg for sure.
There is more useful stuff like prolactin that are harder to get measured. Did not get that myself
Take waking and day temperatures. Hypo = hair loss
Idk about kefir. Try to get FRESH, biologically produced milk, non homogenized if possible even non pasteurized, tho i have not tried that. It’s not even the same drink then regular grocery ***t. Introduce slowly. Track food intake with cronometer for a month. See if you get calcium for example this way
If you do not tolerate a food, do not eat it

 

[mrchibbs]

I've also been avoiding milk like the devil as my acne tends to get more inflamed when I'm on it. I have, however, been taking D3 supplements for ages as I was deficient in high school. Do you think that drinking Kefir instead of milk would be a good substitute for the milk

I did the same, avoided milk for years to prevent acne. Milk is not the cause of your acne. It's the other irritating foods in your diet like grains, beans, seeds, nuts etc. (often its gluten)
Kefir is not a good choice as it contains a lot of lactic acid and that furthers the inflammation cycle. The only really safe yogurt product is greek yogurt (if it doesn't contain any gums), because its strained and the lactic acid is removed. If you haven't been drinking milk for a while, introducing it slowly, a little amount at night and increasing slowly is best to reacclimatize your gut bacteria.

 

[Ableton]

Like I said, my own initial hairline recession did not have anythibg to do with lack of sun/milk though. It was mostly caloric deficit. You are best of gwtting bloodwork, posting it in a new thread were you also explain your situation in detail (your temps, body type, body hair, diet, exercise, sun) and so on.

 

[Zigzag]

@mrchibbs Same here. I stopped drinking milk because someone told me it's why I have that nasty forehead acne. I want to restart it, but all I can buy is market-grade milk :/

 

[mrchibbs]

@mrchibbs Same here. I stopped drinking milk because someone told me it's why I have that nasty forehead acne. I want to restart it, but all I can buy is market-grade milk :/

There's so many of us man, as a teenager I read all sorts of acne books and regimen, and thought for sure milk was evil and the cause of my acne. I don't think I drank any milk between 17-22. What a crazy thing to do lol. And to compound the issue, stopped spending much time outside. Looking back my PTH must have been through the roof, because I shed diffusely very very fast, which is characteristic of women who lose hair fast after menopause. Ray wrote about this in his September 2017 newsletter.

When I was about 15-16 I spent my entire summer outside and was the most tan I've ever been. That year I didn't have any acne for about 6-8 months after. Ray in many interviews has said that the two key aspects of acne are vitamin D levels and intestinal irritation, and I mean, he's totally right.

There must be a way you can get milk locally from a farmer or something? Or maybe find a store with higher quality milk. Honestly, I think some milk is better than no milk at all, maybe you should try to be 1L of 1% milk from your supermarket and drink only like 100ml of it every night for the next month, to get used to it again.

 

[Kenny]

hair loss means you have some sort of health problem.
Your doc will not acknowledge this however.
Do this: you go to the doctor and tell him you feel very off, always tired despite getting sleep and being fine psychologically. I did this as well, it was true tho lol.
Don’t mention you take d.

the doc will do blood tests on you that will be helpful. He will def test your thyroid (tsh, t3, t4), iron, probably serum calcium and magnesium, d levels and several other stuff not so related to hair directly.
Prob tell him you are vegetarian too, so he tests your calcium and iron for sure.
There is nothing wrong with getting a free blood test every couple of years, if you can’t afford it tell them lies. Not your fault health system does not see hair loss as a physiological/psychological problem.
You want to know what your thyroid does, iron and calcium/mg for sure.
There is more useful stuff like prolactin that are harder to get measured. Did not get that myself
Take waking and day temperatures. Hypo = hair loss
Idk about kefir. Try to get FRESH, biologically produced milk, non homogenized if possible even non pasteurized, tho i have not tried that. It’s not even the same drink then regular grocery ***t. Introduce slowly. Track food intake with cronometer for a month. See if you get calcium for example this way
If you do not tolerate a food, do not eat it

I'm assuming the role genetics play is just the likelihood of people developing health problems due to certain deficiencies then? That's pretty fascinating. My only relative with baldness is my paternal grandfather- I suppose this would explain how I could have expressed that trait then. Thought he was a really outdoorsy person and lost hair pretty young, also pretty sure he didn't have acne problems or avoid milk. They should definitely see it as a psychological problem. At 18 it is devastating. Thanks for the tips!

I did the same, avoided milk for years to prevent acne. Milk is not the cause of your acne. It's the other irritating foods in your diet like grains, beans, seeds, nuts etc. (often its gluten)
Kefir is not a good choice as it contains a lot of lactic acid and that furthers the inflammation cycle. The only really safe yogurt product is greek yogurt (if it doesn't contain any gums), because its strained and the lactic acid is removed. If you haven't been drinking milk for a while, introducing it slowly, a little amount at night and increasing slowly is best to reacclimatize your gut bacteria.

I will definitely introduce it slowly - I really appreciate the advice.

 

[Zigzag]

There must be a way you can get milk locally from a farmer or something? Or maybe find a store with higher quality milk. Honestly, I think some milk is better than no milk at all, maybe you should try to be 1L of 1% milk from your supermarket and drink only like 100ml of it every night for the next month, to get used to it again.

I will to find something of better quality, but drinking 100ml? That will be torture :)

 

[mrchibbs]

I will to find something of better quality, but drinking 100ml? That will be torture :)

haha You gotta do what you gotta do