Hair loss from b5 supplements in high doses

[Brendan452]

Can anyone please help

 

[cs3000]

too much b5 causes excess cortisol stimulation by ACTH. & too much cortisol is linked to hair loss
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18520055/

 

[Brendan452]

too much b5 causes excess cortisol stimulation by ACTH. & too much cortisol is linked to hair loss
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18520055/

Wow thanks for the information ive been looking for the answer a very long time.is there anything you can recommend for lowering cortisol.

 

[Brendan452]

Wow thanks for the information ive been looking for the answer a very long time.is there anything you can recommend for lowering cortisol.

Do you think ashwagandha would help my hair loss

 

[cs3000]

Wow thanks for the information ive been looking for the answer a very long time.is there anything you can recommend for lowering cortisol.

u got it , theres a lot of focus on cortisol here if u search around haidut has a lot of posts on it

got a couple approaches , 1. lowering cortisol or inhibiting mineralocorticoid receptor Evidence That Cortisol Really Does Cause Hair Loss,
2. looking for things that lower cortisol response to ACTH,
or 3. looking for things that lower Corticotropin releasing hormone which stimulates ACTH to begin with.

lowering cortisol too much can have its own problems on energy

for 3. quercetin can do that , i'm gonna test it for sleep quality

Prevention and treatment of alopecia areata with quercetin in the C3H/HeJ mouse model here it reduced alopecia in mice when injected under skin.

and prevented alopecia occurance almost completely when given i.p , which is closer to taken orally
i think dose was ~600mg human dose but it's i.p which varies a lot.
so maybe 1g but its hard to say could be a lot higher
took 6 weeks for regrowth. so could be worth a shot taken in evenings
reddit .com/r/alopecia_areata/comments/qm4dr4/does_anyone_else_take_quercetin_it_really_helps/


. also theres studies showing thyroid hormone is good for hair. t3 & t4 have independent effect on animals hair follicles but idk if its same in humans. so maybe t3 solo diluted in water could be worth a shot for a month

quercetin might inhibit thyroid synthesis at the same dose , because it blocks iodide uptake by thyroid 50% The flavonoid quercetin inhibits thyroid-restricted genes expression and thyroid function . BUT should be good for at least a few weeks trial , because it doesn't actually lower thyroid hormone concentrations in the body at least initially shown over 2 weeks (they say thyroid stores enough hormone to last a while). but longer term after few weeks may need to offset that by taking thyroid hormone anyway , though it might work different orally. u will be able to tell if body temp under the tongue drops after a few weeks anyway.

An important point that needs to be underlined is that in this study quercetin has been administered parenterally. This procedure results in a high amounts of unconjugated quercetin in the blood in comparison with oral ingestion. In case of oral ingestion, quercetin is metabolized by the intestinal epithelium and reaches the blood mainly as conjugates forms,

cortisol can help slow alopecia if its too low or caused by inflammatory condition. (idk if its actually effective for regrowth in this situation)
but on the other side cortisol too high in hair follicles causes it to drop out & hinders growth

Stress and the Hair Growth Cycle: Cortisol-Induced Hair Growth Disruption - JDDonline - Journal of Drugs in Dermatology

INTRODUCTION Biological organisms are continuously exposed to a myriad of internal and external stimuli and stressors. As a response to these stimuli, living organisms have developed natural defence and adaptation...

jddonline.com

 

[Bluebell]

Check your biotin, high dose B5 can deplete it which can then lead to hair loss.

 

[Brendan452]

u got it , theres a lot of focus on cortisol here if u search around haidut has a lot of posts on it

got a couple approaches , 1. lowering cortisol or inhibiting mineralocorticoid receptor Evidence That Cortisol Really Does Cause Hair Loss,
2. looking for things that lower cortisol response to ACTH,
or 3. looking for things that lower Corticotropin releasing hormone which stimulates ACTH to begin with.

lowering cortisol too much can have its own problems on energy

for 3. quercetin can do that , i'm gonna test it for sleep quality

Prevention and treatment of alopecia areata with quercetin in the C3H/HeJ mouse model here it reduced alopecia in mice when injected under skin.
View attachment 51296
and prevented alopecia occurance almost completely when given i.p , which is closer to taken orally
i think dose was ~600mg human dose but it's i.p which varies a lot.
so maybe 1g but its hard to say could be a lot higher
took 6 weeks for regrowth. so could be worth a shot taken in evenings
reddit .com/r/alopecia_areata/comments/qm4dr4/does_anyone_else_take_quercetin_it_really_helps/


. also theres studies showing thyroid hormone is good for hair. t3 & t4 have independent effect on animals hair follicles but idk if its same in humans. so maybe t3 solo diluted in water could be worth a shot for a month

quercetin might inhibit thyroid synthesis at the same dose , because it blocks iodide uptake by thyroid 50% The flavonoid quercetin inhibits thyroid-restricted genes expression and thyroid function . BUT should be good for at least a few weeks trial , because it doesn't actually lower thyroid hormone concentrations in the body at least initially shown over 2 weeks (they say thyroid stores enough hormone to last a while). but longer term after few weeks may need to offset that by taking thyroid hormone anyway , though it might work different orally. u will be able to tell if body temp under the tongue drops after a few weeks anyway.



cortisol can help slow alopecia if its too low or caused by inflammatory condition. (idk if its actually effective for regrowth in this situation)
but on the other side cortisol too high in hair follicles causes it to drop out & hinders growth

Stress and the Hair Growth Cycle: Cortisol-Induced Hair Growth Disruption - JDDonline - Journal of Drugs in Dermatology

INTRODUCTION Biological organisms are continuously exposed to a myriad of internal and external stimuli and stressors. As a response to these stimuli, living organisms have developed natural defence and adaptation...

jddonline.com

 

[Brendan452]

Thanks for all the information I think.i will definitely try lowering my cortisol with ashwagandha and omega 3s.i tried biotin for 6 months plus.i hoped to see a difference and really stuck with it but it didn't seem to help much

 

[Brendan452]

What do you think to l histadine

 

[cs3000]

Thanks for all the information I think.i will definitely try lowering my cortisol with ashwagandha and omega 3s.i tried biotin for 6 months plus.i hoped to see a difference and really stuck with it but it didn't seem to help much

looks like it has effects on lowering cortisol response , but as a heads up , the worst anxiety i had in my life was when i was taking ashwaganda years ago. remember i was on the edge of a panic attack a couple times just being on a bus. it can raise serotonin a lot which is linked to fear response. idk if it works the same way as ssris flooding so much serotonin that receptors desensitize after a while for effect , but i remember that effect. i personally would avoid

 

[Brendan452]

Do you think l cysteine could also help

 

[Mauritio]

Check your biotin, high dose B5 can deplete it which can then lead to hair loss.

This is my experience as well. I only take very small doses of b5

 

[cs3000]

lowering cortisol too much can have its own problems on energy

for 3. quercetin can do that , i'm gonna test it for sleep quality
Prevention and treatment of alopecia areata with quercetin in the C3H/HeJ mouse model here it reduced alopecia in mice when injected under skin.
View attachment 51296
and prevented alopecia occurance almost completely when given i.p , which is closer to taken orally
i think dose was ~600mg human dose but it's i.p which varies a lot.
so maybe 1g but its hard to say could be a lot higher
took 6 weeks for regrowth. so could be worth a shot taken in evenings
reddit .com/r/alopecia_areata/comments/qm4dr4/does_anyone_else_take_quercetin_it_really_helps/

. also theres studies showing thyroid hormone is good for hair. t3 & t4 have independent effect on animals hair follicles but idk if its same in humans. so maybe t3 solo diluted in water could be worth a shot for a month

quercetin might inhibit thyroid synthesis at the same dose , because it blocks iodide uptake by thyroid 50% The flavonoid quercetin inhibits thyroid-restricted genes expression and thyroid function . BUT should be good for at least a few weeks trial , because it doesn't actually lower thyroid hormone concentrations in the body at least initially shown over 2 weeks (they say thyroid stores enough hormone to last a while). but longer term after few weeks may need to offset that by taking thyroid hormone anyway , though it might work different orally. u will be able to tell if body temp under the tongue drops after a few weeks anyway.

cortisol can help slow alopecia if its too low or caused by inflammatory condition. (idk if its actually effective for regrowth in this situation)
but on the other side cortisol too high in hair follicles causes it to drop out & hinders growth
https://jddonline.com/articles/stre...-growth-disruption-S1545961616P1001X/?_page=2

Btw something to note about quercetin,
it has opposite effects on estrogen depending on the dose, in rodent studies, assuming human doses work similar

100mg is anti-estrogenic , and helps slow growth of estrogen tumors nicely.
also shows a benefit for inhibiting melanoma / lowering melanoma spread depending on dose
~500mg/600mg (assuming thats oral or intragastric) is a mixed effect , slows lung cancer growth
1g+ is estrogenic, doesnt induce tumors but accelerates existing estrogen breast tumor growth a lot

https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10.1089/jmf.2014.3293

backed up further by

. In conclusion, changes in uterine morphology and proliferation following 10 mg/kg/day quercetin treatment could be attributed to quercetin's antiestrogenic properties, while changes that occur following 100 mg/kg/day quercetin treatment could be attributed to quercetin's estrogenic properties. Following 50 mg/kg/day quercetin treatment, the changes observed were in between those changes that occur following 10 and 100 mg/kg/day quercetin treatment

so 500mg or less of quercetin could be safe & beneficial,
but if going over needs to be paired with an estrogen blocker (assuming it doesnt block desired effect)

also increases melanin in hair follicles , so should be good for greying alongside hair growth. combo

http://mj-med-u-tokai.com/pdf/380403.pdf

--
Something unique that stood out about this is it's mainly excreted as CO2 in the breath. also has 2 peaks in blood as it recirculates.
so i wonder if some of its benefits relate to increased CO2? like ray talked about. Protective CO2 and aging

he said CO2 helps oxidative metabolism in mitochondria, and lowers superoxide
(quercetin at reasonable doses lowers superoxide , protects / restores mitochondria, & enhances mitochondria Oxidative respiration / ATP output)
and also in that article talks about role in lowering aging (here shown with hair regrowth & greying reversal)
ray mentioned how co2 can lower lactic acid , which quercetin does (less glycolysis) Progress in Nutrition
(500mg lowered from 21 mmol/L to 12 as exercise response)

 

[cs3000]

Btw something to note about quercetin,
it has opposite effects on estrogen depending on the dose, in rodent studies, assuming human doses work similar

100mg is anti-estrogenic , and helps slow growth of estrogen tumors nicely.
also shows a benefit for inhibiting melanoma / lowering melanoma spread depending on dose
~500mg/600mg (assuming thats oral or intragastric) is a mixed effect , slows lung cancer growth
1g+ is estrogenic, doesnt induce tumors but accelerates existing estrogen breast tumor growth a lot

https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10.1089/jmf.2014.3293

backed up further by



so 500mg or less of quercetin could be safe & beneficial,
but if going over needs to be paired with an estrogen blocker (assuming it doesnt block desired effect)

also increases melanin in hair follicles , so should be good for greying alongside hair growth. combo

http://mj-med-u-tokai.com/pdf/380403.pdf

doses without food btw. as taking with 5g+ fat increases absorption a lot

 

[cs3000]

Btw something to note about quercetin,
it has opposite effects on estrogen depending on the dose, in rodent studies, assuming human doses work similar

100mg is anti-estrogenic , and helps slow growth of estrogen tumors nicely.
also shows a benefit for inhibiting melanoma / lowering melanoma spread depending on dose
~500mg/600mg (assuming thats oral or intragastric) is a mixed effect , slows lung cancer growth
1g+ is estrogenic, doesnt induce tumors but accelerates existing estrogen breast tumor growth a lot

https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10.1089/jmf.2014.3293

backed up further by

so 500mg or less of quercetin could be safe & beneficial,
but if going over needs to be paired with an estrogen blocker (assuming it doesnt block desired effect)
also increases melanin in hair follicles , so should be good for greying alongside hair growth. combo

http://mj-med-u-tokai.com/pdf/380403.pdf

--
Something unique that stood out about this is it's mainly excreted as CO2 in the breath. also has 2 peaks in blood as it recirculates.
so i wonder if some of its benefits relate to increased CO2? like ray talked about. Protective CO2 and aging
he said CO2 helps oxidative metabolism in mitochondria, and lowers superoxide
(quercetin at reasonable doses lowers superoxide , protects / restores mitochondria, & enhances mitochondria Oxidative respiration / ATP output)
and also in that article talks about role in lowering aging (here shown with hair regrowth & greying reversal)
ray mentioned how co2 can lower lactic acid , which quercetin does (less glycolysis) Progress in Nutrition
(500mg lowered from 21 mmol/L to 12 as exercise response)

update on that

. this one shows benefit to mitochondria & exercise, for 7 days at 25mg/kg in mice Quercetin increases brain and muscle mitochondrial biogenesis and exercise tolerance - PubMed
. 25mg/kg in rats (higher mice dose equivalent) for 4 weeks shows dual antioxidant and prooxidant effects Anti- and prooxidant effects of chronic quercetin administration in rats - PubMed
. 25mg/kg in rats for 6 weeks impaired exercise response , became pro-oxidant in brain with exercise and no effect sedentary The combination of oral quercetin supplementation and exercise prevents brain mitochondrial biogenesis
. 50mg/kg in mice for 4 days in week 1 and 5 days in week 2 (so lower than 50mg/kg week to week) helps reverse mitochondrial dysfunction and brain cell ATP in mice given meth Quercetin ameliorates mitochondrial dysfunction and mitigates methamphetamine-induced anxiety-like behavior


if works same in humans could be that:
. 1.6mg/kg in humans is safe dose where double that dose isn't ? ,
. or longer than 2 weeks shows reverse effects so only suitable for ~2 week use ?

the human exercise study showed less lactic acid during exercise during 1 week of 500mg.

* QEURCETIN is an iron chelator and blocks intestinal iron absorption, not suitable to take with low iron
it lowers ceruloplasmin 50% , injected in mice at 50mg/kg mice dose

So part of the longer term detrimental effect could be from iron / copper lowering too much

In the present study a decreased activity of Complex IV in mice treated with quercetin is clear. This is well correlated with decreased levels of ceruloplasmin
Our previous research [30] exposed that mild copper deprivation in mice is correlated with a decreased protein expression and activity of Complex IV at the level of OXPHOS supercomplexes along with a decrease in the ceruloplasmin levels.

also didnt notice any benefit on sleep at different doses, opposite actually.
do rats metabolise it differently or something. or maybe lowering my low iron even further from an already low state which can **** with sleep, outweighing other CRH effect? **** knows , thought this 1 was gonna work finally , frustrating

 

[cs3000]

Found this on hair aspect - Quercetin effect on hair regrowth worked at very low doses in mice. works topically or orally

Single-cell profiling reveals a potent role of quercetin in promoting hair regeneration

Hair loss affects millions of people at some time in their life, and safe and efficient treatments for hair loss are a significant unmet medical need. We report that topical delivery of quercetin (Que) stimulates resting hair follicles to grow with rapid ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

0.625mg/kg orally in mice , ~4mg human dose

so 5mg with some butter could have decent effect by 6 weeks if it works the same. pic shows higher doses arent better topically so theres a sweet spot

THSWD may promote hair growth through the specific biological processes including responses to oxidative stress, reactive oxygen species, and hydrogen peroxide. In addition, THSWD may exert its regulatory function in the pathogenesis of AGA and the regulation of pathways including apoptosis, AGE-RAGE signaling pathway, NOD-like receptor signaling pathway and PI3K-AKT signaling pathways, which are associated with the occurrence of AGA

** Luteolin (MOL000006), quercetin (MOL000098), kaempferol (MOL000422), baicalein (MOL002714), and beta-carotene (MOL002773) acted on 132, 54, 55, 35 and 18 targets, respectively. And the OB values of quercetin, luteolin, kaempferol, baicalein, and beta-carotene are 46.43%, 36.16%, 41.88%, 33.52%, and 37.18%, respectively
We selected top 3 active compounds (quercetin, luteolin, kaempferol) corresponding to core targets (AKT1, TP53, JUN, CASP3 and MYC)

Luteolin has similar strucuture to quercetin. both fat soluble. luteolin has shorter half life but effects more of the targets associated with hair growth

maybe this low dose gives mitochondria boosting effect without reversing to dysfunction , as copper & iron levels arent being crashed from so much chelation. tho i wonder if similar signalling still happens for lowering absorption
would stop taking during illness as theyre potent inhibitors of immune cells