Shutting off serotonin turns lab rat study into an orgy

[lexis]

post 105455

Lot of illnesses have been psychologised and a lot of human behaviour have been medicalized[/quote]http://www.raypeatforum.com/forum/v...0&sid=270d80608ab2fc84d45f30abdb5993e0#p49981
you may get something out of this thread lexis[/quote]

I checked the thread.

Blossom says "I have had increased feelings of love too since Peating! I think you are probably right about it being related to the Peat inspired changes you have made!"

Thats interesting.

Has anyone turned into an artist since peating?

 

[lexis]

post 105418

post 105387

post 105178 This is an older 1970 study that I'm sure Ray has seen. I posted on the RPI FB group a week or two ago and thought I'd share: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1702805/

Researchers permanently shut down serotonin in adult male rats. Subsequent libido and "mounting" activity went through the roof. I think I recall them "mounting" up to 60x per hour compared to the average of 2

Researchers had a novel idea to make them lazy, unsocial, and unreproductive by administering 5-HTP. Worked like a charm.

The hair loss association can be ignored as it's not from some physiological function, but more from increased grooming/sexual behavior.

Unfortunately, zero serotonin does seem to have a negative effect of restless sleep. This was also replicated in cats: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/5312896

Anecdotally, after a month+ of cypro I concur with their findings except I sleep much better.

I spoke to a person who was a student of Shillito (or so he claims). He said that rats started mounting/humping cats when depleted of serotonin. So, we can conclude that serotonin is one of the primary constituents of the survival instinct and the instinct can be suppressed. The opposite is also true - triggering one's survival instinct raises serotonin. So, if you are constant stress or struggling in some way, metabolism/libido will not be working well.

This is very interesting. I am beginning to see serotonin in the brain is as an inhibition hormone. Raising and lowering will have different effect. The mice trying to mate with a potential predatory animal, would be an example of a lack of serotonin allowing other hormones/neurotransmitters to "run wild". Under normal circumstances, under stress or the anticipation of stress, serotonin would suppress certain functions/chemicals in order to conserve energy for the coming fight or flight functions. And mating isn't one of them.

In the case of hibernating bears, winter is the upcoming stress. Serotonin is a constituent of the survival instinct. Serotonin is activated by either less sunlight, temperature, or predictive internal clock causing them to start suppressing active-life functions and ultimately sleeping off the winter.

Theanine is said to be a close analogue of the substance used in the experiment.I tried 400mg of Theanine and had very unpleasant effects

 

[haidut]

post 105521 Theanine is said to be a close analogue of the substance used in the experiment.I tried 400mg of Theanine and had very unpleasant effects

How is theanine a close analog to Fenclonine? Their structure is quite different. Theanine is a type of (anti)-glutamine amino acid while Fenclonine is a phenylalanine with a chloride atom.

 

[lexis]

I mean both of them can deplete serotonin

 

[NathanK]

If I were to give a shot in the dark, and not taking into account any metaphysical ideas, I'd say 'love' is associated with oxytocin, vasopressin, and dopamine. All have some modulating effects by serotonin. The body is very complex since it seems every hormone wears numerous hats, but if you alter serotonin then it's likely that you will alter the others. Each serotonin altering substance has different affinities for various "receptors" (even within the same hormone!) and therefore have varying downstream effects.

 

[DaveFoster]

For pramipexole, note that it raises GH tremendously; avoid.

Comparison of pramipexole with and without domperidone co-administration on alertness, autonomic, and endocrine functions in healthy volunteers

 

[Koveras]

For pramipexole, note that it raises GH tremendously; avoid.

Comparison of pramipexole with and without domperidone co-administration on alertness, autonomic, and endocrine functions in healthy volunteers

According to that study they measured the blood levels of growth hormone 2 hours after administering the pramipexole

"pramipexole was administered 2 h and domperidone 1 h prior to testing for drug effects"

...and according to this study that monitored endocrine changes over 24 hours:

Neuroendocrine and side effect profile of pramipexole, a new dopamine receptor agonist, in humans - Schilling - 1992 - Clinical Pharmacology & Therapeutics - Wiley Online Library

"Serum levels of human growth hormone were dose-dependently increased; however, this effect was only significant 2 hours after drug administration. "

So the significance is ...uncertain...

 

[barefooter]

I remember going into a doctors office and telling him about my ice cold hands and feet, my 95.5 degree temperature, exhaustion, etc. and he told me I was depressed and referred me to a psychiatrist....I truly wanted to punch him in the face...,im like no sh*t im depressed, I have all these symptoms and you have no explanation for this. I don't understand how so many people ride the fda gravy train popping a cocktail of all these medications, and are perfectly okay with all the side effects like loss of libido....the world is messed up

The problem is that the way the whole medical establishment looks at so called "mental ilnesses" is batshit crazy. Often the cause/effect is completely backwards, so they are telling you that you have all these issues, because you're depressed, as if depression was somehow the root cause, like some kind of virus that can only be cured with SSRIs. Of course this view helps sell lots of meds. When in reality mental illnesses are just grab bags of symptoms, and it's the health issues that are causing a depressed physical and psychological state.

The other crazy thing I'll see sometimes that really pisses me off is marginalization of the actual causes of mental issues. Things like, a deficiency of substance x has been shown in trials to cause "depression like" symptoms, "bipolar like" symptoms. So if you had a severe magnesium deficiency that was causing you to be depressed, and you started supping magnesium and got better, well the docs would say that you didn't actually have depression, you were just low on mag. They can't be caught saying a nutrient could get rid of depression, because we all know the cure for depression is SSRIs.

Of course the populace goes along with it, because most people assume doctors are geniuses.

 

[DaveFoster]

According to that study they measured the blood levels of growth hormone 2 hours after administering the pramipexole

"pramipexole was administered 2 h and domperidone 1 h prior to testing for drug effects"

...and according to this study that monitored endocrine changes over 24 hours:

Neuroendocrine and side effect profile of pramipexole, a new dopamine receptor agonist, in humans - Schilling - 1992 - Clinical Pharmacology & Therapeutics - Wiley Online Library

"Serum levels of human growth hormone were dose-dependently increased; however, this effect was only significant 2 hours after drug administration. "

So the significance is ...uncertain...

Prolactin releases in pulses, similar to growth hormone. If you orgasm, your prolactin levels peak 'til an hour afterwards. It still desensitizes dopamine receptors and causes depression.

 

[Koveras]

Prolactin releases in pulses, similar to growth hormone. If you orgasm, your prolactin levels peak 'til an hour afterwards. It still desensitizes dopamine receptors and causes depression.

True, but with growth hormone the negative effects might be more directly related to lipolysis/FFA release in which case the area under the curve (AUC) would be more relevant than any single peak.

 

[DaveFoster]

True, but with growth hormone the negative effects might be more directly related to lipolysis/FFA release in which case the area under the curve (AUC) would be more relevant than any single peak.

Good point and I think you're correct. It's not necessarily the hormone concentrations, but their physiological context.

Women have much higher levels of estrogen for example, but their progesterone more than offsets its effects (in a healthy female). Without their estrogen levels, they wouldn't be women; same for serotonin.