Record numbers of Western citizens identify as LGBTQ

[ThinPicking]

You have done what you complain about with your first response to me.

Apologies, I lost the motivation to continue at this spurious conflation.

 

[InChristAlone]

I guess it was just that, waffle, at least to you. You have done what you complain about with your first response to me. Well I came here initially to simply to share an opinion like so many before me have done. There is not much difference between skirts and kilts physically, the difference is in the mind, shaped by society. I then suggested societies evolution along with technology is not something we can really quantify. Society in my opinion will and is certainly evolving, changing into something different as technology continues to evolve. I don't see what is wrong with this opinion? Open your eyes and you can see this happening. So, what can you do about it? Can you stop the evolution of technology? No you cannot. So you cannot stop the evolution of society along with it either. So what can you do? Live your own life, without worrying what other people who have nothing to do with you and your life are doing. This is the essence of my first post. Live your life, worry about yourself, don't worry about another man wearing a skirt.

I do not see anything stupid about that, that is just common sense to me. Now I also saw discrimination in this thread, which is why I decided to post in it.

It then turned into a religious and philosophical debate when the discussion of Jesus and heavy discrimination on gay people came up. This is a separate issue to my first post. Discrimination on anyone (who is not committing crimes) is wrong to me.

I can see how hypocritical this is of me and my first post, attempting to defend my opinion against strangers on the internet is the antithesis of not caring what others think, and so this will be my last response to you on this topic. I wish you all the best, have a lovely life.




This is an unwinnable debate, I knew that going in which is why my arguing point is that nothing can be completely proved or disproved. I accepted the debate because I believe any discrimination against anyone (except hard criminals, like you continue to bring up) is ethically wrong. It is my opinion and belief you should not discriminate, however because of your bible, that was written by men, you do discriminate against gay people. Once again I am answering your question by saying there is a clear difference between innocent people not harming anyone, and hard criminals. You cannot compare an innocent gay person to a disgusting pedophile. Children cannot consent to sex, sex with a child is harming them and is a clear crime. This is not the same thing, in fact it is far from the same thing as two consenting adults of the same sex who both know what they are doing. Furthermore, philosophical and religious belief should not ever be used as an excuse to warrant harm to an innocent person. If someone believes it can be, that someone is (hopefully) going to be punished for it, that's why we have laws in place. However religious leaders have continued to get away with this, because they abuse their power. More on that below.

To specify, I have no issue with the belief in Jesus Christ or god. I love that the belief in Jesus Christ and god exists. I love that you have found yourself a wonderfully better life with Jesus and god. Everyone has differing beliefs, which is a large part of their individuality. You cannot force people to believe in Jesus, you cannot force people to not believe in Jesus. That is the opposite of what any God would want. No, I have issue with the blind belief in a bible, written by man not god, that has been abused over centuries and millennia by fanatics in power to control the population, wage unjust religious wars, and cause copious death and destruction around the world. This is not gods will, but 'gods will' has and continues to be abused by the people in power to cause harm. Gods will is love and creation. Corrupt men at the top have had their hands on the bible, and there's also evidence the bible has been edited and parts rewritten over the centuries. So no, I do not believe discrimination against gay people is of gods will. Gods will is love and creation, not discrimination. I believe that is of a corrupt fanatics will.

As I've told ThinPicking, this will be my last response in this thread because I see this conversation is not progressing to any outcome, and I need to take my own advice and stop worrying about what any of you think.

Wishing you the best, bless you.

I hope I am clear that I never discriminate against anyone. I would treat someone who lusts over the same sex the same way as I treat anyone else. Discrimination is the not the same thing as having moral values. I do not believe women having sex with women and men having sex with men, and men wanting to be a woman and women wanting to be a man is morally right. Nothing to do with discrimination. I do not affirm mental perversions.

 

[Ritchie]

Historically in ancient society homosexuality was a dominance thing, there would be a dominant male who would F the submissive feminine male, as a form of power. It wasn't consensual and homosexuality isn't always consensual as evidenced by older men F***ing boys as a form of dominance and power.

Well, again painfully obviously, anything non-consensual, or against someone's will, is wrong - gay, straight or whatever. Older men forcing themselves on girls or boys as a form of dominance and power against their will, without consent, is plain wrong, and should be punished. And we do punish them. As a society we have also determined that there is a consensual age - an age at which a person is considered competent to consent to sexual acts.. If they are at this age or above then the person is capable of choosing for themselves what they do and don't engage in. Before that age, the individual is deemed unable to consent and any sexual act is viewed as child sexual abuse or statutory rape. You seem very concerned with what people are doing with other people, privately and consensually. A little weird, but each to their own - you can focus your energy on whatever you want to. Personally I like to live and let live.

 

[InChristAlone]

Well, again painfully obviously, anything non-consensual, or against someone's will, is wrong - gay, straight or whatever. Older men forcing themselves on girls or boys as a form of dominance and power against their will, without consent, is plain wrong, and should be punished. And we do punish them. As a society we have also determined that there is a consensual age - an age at which a person is considered competent to consent to sexual acts.. If they are at this age or above then the person is capable of choosing for themselves what they do and don't engage in. Before that age, the individual is deemed unable to consent and any sexual act is viewed as child sexual abuse or statutory rape. You seem very concerned with what people are doing with other people, privately and consensually. A little weird, but each to their own - you can focus your energy on whatever you want to. Personally I like to live and let live.

But it isn't private. Have you ever heard of Pride month? Have you ever heard about what they are teaching 5 yrs old in class? Have you seen the amount of homosexuality in pop culture? It isn't private.

 

[Ritchie]

But it isn't private. Have you ever heard of Pride month? Have you ever heard about what they are teaching 5 yrs old in class? Have you seen the amount of homosexuality in pop culture? It isn't private.

I mean private as in sexual activity. Same as heterosexual activity.. Private as in it's their business not yours.
Not sure what your issue with pride month is, are they having sex in public? Obviously we as a society have deemed that inappropriate regardless of ones persuasions. Do you have an issue with sexuality in general? What about other festivals that emphasise sexual expression, like, carnival, etc basically most music orientated festivals and so forth? What about things like fashion week and the Paris fashion show, do you take issue with that?.. Homosexuality in pop culture? Pop culture always has and always will have a heightened emphasis on sexuality in all forms. Hetero, gay, whatever. Sex sells. Part of the nature.
And I have no idea what you are referring to in regards to teaching 5 year olds in class..

 

[Chad_Catholic]

I hate to be a broken record but I've observed how often people think they are gay when they use a lot of porn. When they stop the porn, over maybe 6 to 9 months they gain a more "normal" sexual orientation. There is something incredibly destructive about porn as it is used today.

This is true! Masturbation too is equally catastrophic, and both are grave sins that also pervert the mind and soul.

 

[Chad_Catholic]

This just proves that homosexuality, just like every other sin, is a choice.

 

[Regina]

Bank bans customer for questioning presence of rainbow flag on app

https://banned.video/watch?id=63160d1e5ee9fe4ac64c97df&utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email

 

[Chad_Catholic]

Bank bans customer for questioning presence of rainbow flag on app

https://banned.video/watch?id=63160d1e5ee9fe4ac64c97df&utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email

Large corporations are the worst. Anything for money

 

[InChristAlone]

I mean private as in sexual activity. Same as heterosexual activity.. Private as in it's their business not yours.
Not sure what your issue with pride month is, are they having sex in public? Obviously we as a society have deemed that inappropriate regardless of ones persuasions. Do you have an issue with sexuality in general? What about other festivals that emphasise sexual expression, like, carnival, etc basically most music orientated festivals and so forth? What about things like fashion week and the Paris fashion show, do you take issue with that?.. Homosexuality in pop culture? Pop culture always has and always will have a heightened emphasis on sexuality in all forms. Hetero, gay, whatever. Sex sells. Part of the nature.
And I have no idea what you are referring to in regards to teaching 5 year olds in class..

If you don't know what's going on in school then you should look it up, here is what the Florida governor did in response to the changing dynamic of teaching sex to kindergarteners. He signed a bill saying schools cannot teach about sexual identity until after third grade. Governor Ron DeSantis Signs Historic Bill to Protect Parental Rights in Education

The backlash was crazy!!! It was in the media that it was about gay discrimination and Disney employees held a protest. I'm sure you have heard about this? More news got leaked that they are intentionally adding homosexuality to Disney movies. We are talking about children here not adults.

The question about whether I'm okay with sex in general is just trying to dodge the topic. Our kids do not need to be raised thinking being gay or transgender is cool. There are kids now coming out as gay when they don't even know what it means! It's cool to be gay in school. A normal straight person is like the one left out. There have been drag queen reading hour at libraries. It's everywhere if you can't see that then I don't know what to say. I don't want sex on display, it's shameful. Culture in general has so much toxic shame they don't have any healthy shame and healthy boundaries. Sex IS a private act, between man and woman in the constraints of a marriage. Sex in movies, porn, pushing drag queen hour and pride parades in every city, it's shameful.

 

[Ritchie]

Sex IS a private act, between man and woman in the constraints of a marriage.

Replying to this goes against my better judgement.. but i'll engage for a second -

You are aware that this is a non-authoritarian forum, right? Marriage as an act of celebration and recognition of a relationship can be a beautiful thing, however the institution of marriage, and the idea that there requires an authority to give permission to one of the most fundamental aspects of human life, being an intimate relationship, is ridiculous. And the fact that you are espousing this on this forum is humorously ironic. Ray Peat himself is not married, yet has a long term partner whom he is obviously intimate with. I have a girlfriend who I sleep with, I am not married, do both these instances offend you too?
And more over, who are you to judge

I don't want sex on display, it's shameful. Culture in general has so much toxic shame they don't have any healthy shame and healthy boundaries.

You seem to have a troubled relationship with sex and intimacy.

Sex in movies, porn, pushing drag queen hour and pride parades in every city, it's shameful.

Shameful? Lol don't watch it then.

Our kids do not need to be raised thinking being gay or transgender is cool. There are kids now coming out as gay when they don't even know what it means! It's cool to be gay in school.

The whole point is to help nurture an environment of acceptance and open-ness. Of loving and kindness. Why would you have a problem with that? If someone is gay, and feels they have to suppress it, this is not good psychologically or for society. People should feel comfortable being who they are, as long as it isn't hurting anyone of course. Why should a straight girl feel supported by society in her swooning over boys but a gay girl made to feel ashamed at being attracted to other girls? The idea is to remove that. Sure it's a balancing act and a learning process, and I agree the age at which this is starting to be made aware for children needs to be examined by experts in the field, however what must be endeavored to be avoided is children hitting puberty and feeling like there is something wrong with them because they are naturally attracted to the same sex.

I'm a straight male and I can tell you that it is not really a choice as to just thinking being gay is cool so hooking up with another guy. It just doesn't work that way, you either are or you aren't attracted to the same sex. I am not, and I am strongly attracted to females and there is no amount of willing to be, or encouragement from society, that would change that. I have gay friends and they are just naturally that way inclined, same with the straight ones. It just is what it is. Always has been and always will be, in every society and at every stage throughout history. At some point you have to acknowledge it is part of the human condition and recognize that you are in denial by not accepting that. We encourage a far healthier society by doing that. It is beyond me as to why you would hold issue with people loving, caring and being attracted to eachother. And Peacefully and creatively expressing this. It's war and fighting and torture and persecution, and injustice and oppression and corruption and hate that you should be more concerned with, not the encouragement of acceptance and love in society.

 

[RealNeat]

Replying to this goes against my better judgement.. but i'll engage for a second -

You are aware that this is a non-authoritarian forum, right? Marriage as an act of celebration and recognition of a relationship can be a beautiful thing, however the institution of marriage, and the idea that there requires an authority to give permission to one of the most fundamental aspects of human life, being an intimate relationship, is ridiculous. And the fact that you are espousing this on this forum is humorously ironic. Ray Peat himself is not married, yet has a long term partner whom he is obviously intimate with. I have a girlfriend who I sleep with, I am not married, do both these instances offend you too?
And more over, who are you to judge

You seem to have a troubled relationship with sex and intimacy.

Shameful? Lol don't watch it then.

The whole point is to help nurture an environment of acceptance and open-ness. Of loving and kindness. Why would you have a problem with that? If someone is gay, and feels they have to suppress it, this is not good psychologically or for society. People should feel comfortable being who they are, as long as it isn't hurting anyone of course. Why should a straight girl feel supported by society in her swooning over boys but a gay girl made to feel ashamed at being attracted to other girls? The idea is to remove that. Sure it's a balancing act and a learning process, and I agree the age at which this is starting to be made aware for children needs to be examined by experts in the field, however what must be endeavored to be avoided is children hitting puberty and feeling like there is something wrong with them because they are naturally attracted to the same sex.

I'm a straight male and I can tell you that it is not really a choice as to just thinking being gay is cool so hooking up with another guy. It just doesn't work that way, you either are or you aren't attracted to the same sex. I am not, and I am strongly attracted to females and there is no amount of willing to be, or encouragement from society, that would change that. I have gay friends and they are just naturally that way inclined, same with the straight ones. It just is what it is. Always has been and always will be, in every society and at every stage throughout history. At some point you have to acknowledge it is part of the human condition and recognize that you are in denial by not accepting that. We encourage a far healthier society by doing that. It is beyond me as to why you would hold issue with people loving, caring and being attracted to eachother. And Peacefully and creatively expressing this. It's war and fighting and torture and persecution, and injustice and oppression and corruption and hate that you should be more concerned with, not the encouragement of acceptance and love in society.

Sounds like you believe "love is love." So you're cool with a mother and son relationship as long as it doesn't hurt anyone? Brother and sister? Where do we draw the line and teach limits on what is truly healthy for our species?

 

[Ritchie]

Sounds like you believe "love is love." So you're cool with a mother and son relationship as long as it doesn't hurt anyone? Brother and sister? Where do we draw the line and teach limits on what is truly healthy for our species?

Is this an attempt to draw an analogy?
Lol you’re talking about things that just don’t or very rarely happen! What son wants to be with his mother sexually! I’m assuming you mean when all parties are adults otherwise it would be sexual abuse. Or brother and sister.. I mean if it happens it would be so rare. I know cousins can be with eachother in some parts of the world where the options are limited but what you are referring to is in no way relative to homosexual relationships, simply because the occurrence and consensual desire for them is high as a percentage of the population where as the consensual desire for a son to hook up with his mother and vice versa would be minuscule when all are consenting adults. And I’m assuming you mean biological, not step mums and the like.
So if some random 26 year old dude wants to hook up with his mother on his own accord and she wants to hook up with him lol I guess they can do that. But it just doesn’t happen. Have you heard of an instance? Apart from royal families and the like in the past when they believed in purity of blood lines etc

 

[InChristAlone]

Replying to this goes against my better judgement.. but i'll engage for a second -

You are aware that this is a non-authoritarian forum, right? Marriage as an act of celebration and recognition of a relationship can be a beautiful thing, however the institution of marriage, and the idea that there requires an authority to give permission to one of the most fundamental aspects of human life, being an intimate relationship, is ridiculous. And the fact that you are espousing this on this forum is humorously ironic. Ray Peat himself is not married, yet has a long term partner whom he is obviously intimate with. I have a girlfriend who I sleep with, I am not married, do both these instances offend you too?
And more over, who are you to judge

You seem to have a troubled relationship with sex and intimacy.

Shameful? Lol don't watch it then.

The whole point is to help nurture an environment of acceptance and open-ness. Of loving and kindness. Why would you have a problem with that? If someone is gay, and feels they have to suppress it, this is not good psychologically or for society. People should feel comfortable being who they are, as long as it isn't hurting anyone of course. Why should a straight girl feel supported by society in her swooning over boys but a gay girl made to feel ashamed at being attracted to other girls? The idea is to remove that. Sure it's a balancing act and a learning process, and I agree the age at which this is starting to be made aware for children needs to be examined by experts in the field, however what must be endeavored to be avoided is children hitting puberty and feeling like there is something wrong with them because they are naturally attracted to the same sex.

I'm a straight male and I can tell you that it is not really a choice as to just thinking being gay is cool so hooking up with another guy. It just doesn't work that way, you either are or you aren't attracted to the same sex. I am not, and I am strongly attracted to females and there is no amount of willing to be, or encouragement from society, that would change that. I have gay friends and they are just naturally that way inclined, same with the straight ones. It just is what it is. Always has been and always will be, in every society and at every stage throughout history. At some point you have to acknowledge it is part of the human condition and recognize that you are in denial by not accepting that. We encourage a far healthier society by doing that. It is beyond me as to why you would hold issue with people loving, caring and being attracted to eachother. And Peacefully and creatively expressing this. It's war and fighting and torture and persecution, and injustice and oppression and corruption and hate that you should be more concerned with, not the encouragement of acceptance and love in society.

I am not judging them as a person. I am judging their behavior. And society has every right to judge behaviors. We judge someone who drinks alcohol excessively all the time. We have boundaries as humans. Having moral values gives us boundaries, gives us guardrails so we don't go off the track.

The problem is that society has come to equate love with attraction and lust, sure you could love a same sex partner like you love a friend, but the reason they got in the relationship in the first place is because they had lust for the same sex. We don't have to act on our lustful desires. If you lusted over your sister would you act on it? No, because you know that's morally wrong. And most people have that guardrail up on their life. The guardrail came down when we said acting on same sex lustful desires was okay.

Since you brought up that this is a ray peat forum and Ray is all about being anti-authoritarian, well he himself believes all the estrogen males are exposed to can cause transgenderism and homosexuality. I just read it in one of the transcripts, I can link to it later if you would like. It's NOT natural.

The reason marriage is necessary for sex is because children are a consequence of sex and children should not be raised outside of a loving marital relationship. Science can show this as well. Marriage is the guardrails for our society.

If I love you I do not have to affirm your behavior. And I don't affirm that having sex with your girlfriend is good for your life OR her life, she deserves a lifelong committed husband who will be the protector and provider for her and her future children if she does want children. Having sex with you without that marital commitment is very risky especially if she were to get pregnant, she is setting herself up for a possible single motherhood (which by the way is rampant in our society and the breakdown of the family is extremely harmful), it's selfish and unloving.

And no I don't have a troubled relationship with intimacy, I've been married for 14 yrs and we have amazing intimacy. I wouldn't have sex with anyone without that lifelong commitment to protect my heart and children, I did it when I was young and it was extremely bad for my life. And I thank God that I did not get pregnant by any of the men I slept with without that commitment.

If anyone is interested in this topic as I am, since it's so relevant to our times, I encourage you to listen to Becket Cook, he lives in hollywood and is same sex attracted but denounced his "identity" as a gay man and lives a celibate life now.

 

[Ritchie]

I am not judging them as a person. I am judging their behavior.

With all due respect, who are you to judge? It's none of your business, you should be worrying about you and yours, not what other people do consenually and of free will. As long as noone is being hurt and there is no victim, worry about your own stuff and attempt to spare others of your judgment. I assure you they aren't interested.

And society has every right to judge behaviors.

Historically this has been shown time and time again to lead to horrific injustices. Because society gets it wrong. That is fact. So relax on all this judgy stuff and just live your own truth and let others live theirs. As mentioned before, if you want to concern yourself with aspects of society concern yourself with injustice, oppresion, hatred, abuse, war and violence. Don't worry about the areas that people are loving and exploring all to do with that.

We judge someone who drinks alcohol excessively all the time.

No. We don't. As long as they aren't hurting anyone that is their business. It is their life. If however they are drinking and becoming violent for example and causing harm to others, that is obviously a different matter. Or drinking and driving, that can be judged because they are putting others at massive risk.. But if they choose to drink at a bar everynight, and go home and sleep at the end of it, why they hell is that anyone's business but theirs? Of course education is important in society as to the health, spiritual, mental, emotional consequences of such behaviours, and so forth. But at the end of the day it is their business.

Having moral values gives us boundaries, gives us guardrails so we don't go off the track.

How do you determine your moral values? Because you seem to keep forgetting that an obvious corner stone of morality is impinging on others rights and free will. Or harming others. The 'moral' territory you seem to be walking doesn't seem at all like morality but rather personal opinion and judgment.

The problem is that society has come to equate love with attraction and lust, sure you could love a same sex partner like you love a friend, but the reason they got in the relationship in the first place is because they had lust for the same sex. We don't have to act on our lustful desires. If you lusted over your sister would you act on it? No, because you know that's morally wrong. And most people have that guardrail up on their life. The guardrail came down when we said acting on same sex lustful desires was okay.

Nearly all relationships, even yours i'm sure, starts with attraction and lust. That is hardwired in us as a motivation to begin the relationship in the first place. Without it, people probably wouldn't bother. Or at least be less inclined to monogamy. Attraction and lust brings attachment, it begins the glue that makes people want to be together, and not loose eachother. Once they are in eachothers orbit, caring and love grow with getting to know one another and becoming intertwined. But in the beginning, there was lust.

well he himself believes all the estrogen males are exposed to can cause transgenderism and homosexuality. I just read it in one of the transcripts, I can link to it later if you would like. It's NOT natural.

Well this is obviously testable scientifically, and from the get go it doesn't pass the sniff test. Firstly you are saying that all gay males have high levels of estrogen. At least significantly higher to some degree than straight males? I can already tell you that would be false. There are some very estrogen dominant straight males. But hey, you could explore it - You could hypothesise that if you took a gay male and treated him in such a way as to significantly lower his estrogen he would loose his attraction to the same sex and start wanting to be with the opposite.. And vice versa, take a straight male and up his estrogen, and he would start to become attracted to the same sex.. Or you could get a cross section of the gay population and test their estrogen levels and see if they are significantly higher than a cross section of the straight population.. Both things are easily testable and my guess is it won't prove fruitful. But go for it and see. You may go down in history as cracking the behavioral/hormonal/genetic/sexual orientational motivational code.

By the way, how would that explain gay females? Do they have heightened testosterone levels or something?

The reason marriage is necessary for sex is because children are a consequence of sex and children should not be raised outside of a loving marital relationship. Science can show this as well. Marriage is the guardrails for our society.

Marriage is a piece of paper. Divorce is almost as easy as any other break up. I think where it stands currently statistics are that 50 or so percent of marriages end in divorce, and 75% of second marriages have the same fate. So..... Marriage is imaginary. It's in your head. If you are commited, you are commited. That's it. A piece of paper or an elaborate ceremony ain't going to make the slightest difference.

 

[aniciete]

”Nobody is being hurt” they said…

 

[InChristAlone]

With all due respect, who are you to judge? It's non of your business, you should be worrying about you and yours, not what other people do consenually and of free will. As long as noone is being hurt and there is no victim, worry about your own stuff and attempt to spare others of your judgment. I assure you they aren't interested.

Historically this has been shown time and time again to lead to horrific injustices. Because society gets it wrong. That is fact. So relax on all this judgy stuff and just live your own truth and let others live theirs. As mentioned before, if you want to concern yourself with aspects of society concern yourself with injustice, oppresion, hatred, abuse, war and violence. Don't worry about the areas that people are loving and exploring all to do with that.

No. We don't. As long as they aren't hurting anyone that is their business. It is their life. If however they are drinking and becoming violent for example and causing harm to others, that is obviously a different matter. Or drinking a driving, that can be judged because they are putting others at massive risk.. But if they choose to drink at a bar everynight, and go home and sleep at the end of it, why they hell is that anyone's business but theirs?

How do you determine your moral values? Because you seem to keep forgetting that an obvious corner stone of morality is impinging on others rights and free will. Or harming others. The 'moral' territory you seem to be walking doesn't seem at all like morality but rather personal opinion and judgment.

*sigh*... Nearly all relationships, even yours i'm sure, starts with attraction and lust. That is hardwired in us as a motivation to begin the relationship in the first place. Without it, people probably wouldn't bother. Or at least be less inclined to monogamy. Attraction and lust brings attachment, it begins the glue that makes people want to be together, and not loose eachother. Once they are in eachothers orbit, caring and love grow with getting to know one another and becoming intertwined. But in the beginning, there was lust.

Well this is obviously testable scientifically, and from the get go it doesn't pass the sniff test. Firstly you are saying that all gay males have high levels of estrogen. At least significantly higher to some degree than straight males? I can already tell you that would be false. There are some very estrogen dominant straight males. But hey, you could explore it - You could hypothesise that if you took a gay male and treated him in such a way as to significantly lower his estrogen he would loose his attraction to the same sex and start wanting to be with the opposite.. And vice versa, take a straight male and up his estrogen, and he would start to become attracted to the same sex.. Or you could get a cross section of the gay population and test their estrogen levels and see if they are significantly higher than a cross section of the straight population.. Both things are easily testable and my guess is it won't prove fruitful. But go for it and see. You may go down in history as cracking the behavioral/hormonal/genetic/sexual orientational motivational code.

By the way, how would that explain gay females? Do they have heightened testosterone levels or something?

Marriage is a piece of paper. Divorce is almost as easy as any other break up. I think where it stands the currently statistics are that 50 or so percent of marriages end in divorce, and 75% of second marriages have the same fate. So..... Marriage is imaginary. It's in your head. If you are commited, you are commited. That's it. A piece of paper or an elaborate ceremony ain't going to make the slightest difference.

Everyone is judging everyday. You are judging me for my beliefs very clearly. You cannot escape social judging. So to act like you don't judge anyone is odd.

No I cannot tell someone not to be in a gay relationship. But I don't have to affirm their behavior as you suggest. Loving someone isn't affirming all of their behaviors. And if it were my own child, I would be as loving as I can about it. I may go to their wedding but I would make it clear I do not support having intimate relations with the same sex. You telling me I cannot have that belief is contradictory to what you believe 'everyone live their own truth'. My TRUTH says same sex relations is wrong. You telling me I am wrong is going against your very belief that everyone can believe whatever they want as long as they don't harm anyone. I am not harming anyone with my belief. Just like someone who believes women should be covered (muslims) isn't harming anyone (and they also believe same sex relations is wrong).

I think you may have a distorted view on morality. Morality tells us what is right and wrong, it doesn't tell us not to judge behavior. Morality IS judging behavior. Yes same sex attracted people have every right to be in a relationship. I never said they don't have a right to be in that relationship. Don't put words in my mouth. I am not authoritarian as you suggest. Having morals does not equal being authoritarian. Have you ever fathered a child? If you have no authority over that child you will be an utter failure as a parent. Authority is not wrong. Being authoritative is not the same as being authoritarian. My authority is the God of the Bible YAHWEH. And I do submit to that authority. He said marriage is between man and woman and let no man separate what he has created. "Jesus replied. “But at the beginning of creation God ‘made them male and female.’ For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

Peat says it is the prenatal estrogen exposure that determines all of this. So they may have normal levels, but the exposure while developing could have altered the biological state. Our environmental exposure to estrogen is far greater than ever. We need to protect the growing baby from this. *Edit* and maybe it is the prenatal testosterone exposure that could result in abnormal sexual development for a woman as well. Not sure, some women do produce more testosterone especially if they don't feel safe in the world.

Marriage is FAR more than a piece of paper. It is a celebration of your LIFELONG commitment to that person. Have you told your girlfriend you will never leave her? That you will be her husband for the rest of her life? If not this is risky behavior and selfish. If you have committed to care for her for the rest of her life, and your friends and family know this as well, fine, but why not make it official so that if you were to die she'd have rights to your estate? Not wanting to do this reveals a lot about a person. Trust issues are a big reason for this. And to be committed you have to trust the person won't leave you and cheat on you. The divorce rate is high because humans are selfish, they have no idea what it takes to love someone. Attraction is the beginning of a relationship, but it isn't the only reason for being with someone the rest of your life. I would hope women aren't just settling for someone because they are attracted to them.

 

[InChristAlone]

”Nobody is being hurt” they said…

Horrific.

 

[Chad_Catholic]

Replying to this goes against my better judgement.. but i'll engage for a second -

You are aware that this is a non-authoritarian forum, right? Marriage as an act of celebration and recognition of a relationship can be a beautiful thing, however the institution of marriage, and the idea that there requires an authority to give permission to one of the most fundamental aspects of human life, being an intimate relationship, is ridiculous. And the fact that you are espousing this on this forum is humorously ironic. Ray Peat himself is not married, yet has a long term partner whom he is obviously intimate with. I have a girlfriend who I sleep with, I am not married, do both these instances offend you too?
And more over, who are you to judge

You seem to have a troubled relationship with sex and intimacy.

Shameful? Lol don't watch it then.

The whole point is to help nurture an environment of acceptance and open-ness. Of loving and kindness. Why would you have a problem with that? If someone is gay, and feels they have to suppress it, this is not good psychologically or for society. People should feel comfortable being who they are, as long as it isn't hurting anyone of course. Why should a straight girl feel supported by society in her swooning over boys but a gay girl made to feel ashamed at being attracted to other girls? The idea is to remove that. Sure it's a balancing act and a learning process, and I agree the age at which this is starting to be made aware for children needs to be examined by experts in the field, however what must be endeavored to be avoided is children hitting puberty and feeling like there is something wrong with them because they are naturally attracted to the same sex.

I'm a straight male and I can tell you that it is not really a choice as to just thinking being gay is cool so hooking up with another guy. It just doesn't work that way, you either are or you aren't attracted to the same sex. I am not, and I am strongly attracted to females and there is no amount of willing to be, or encouragement from society, that would change that. I have gay friends and they are just naturally that way inclined, same with the straight ones. It just is what it is. Always has been and always will be, in every society and at every stage throughout history. At some point you have to acknowledge it is part of the human condition and recognize that you are in denial by not accepting that. We encourage a far healthier society by doing that. It is beyond me as to why you would hold issue with people loving, caring and being attracted to eachother. And Peacefully and creatively expressing this. It's war and fighting and torture and persecution, and injustice and oppression and corruption and hate that you should be more concerned with, not the encouragement of acceptance and love in society.

This response is absurd. You sound willing to destroy the notion of Right and wrong, Heaven and hell, Good and evil, God and devil, Angel and demon, all in the name of some arbitrary belief, that is anti-authoritatianism. Your soul is in utter disorder.

 

[Ritchie]

Everyone is judging everyday. You are judging me for my beliefs very clearly. You cannot escape social judging. So to act like you don't judge anyone is odd.

No I cannot tell someone not to be in a gay relationship. But I don't have to affirm their behavior as you suggest. Loving someone isn't affirming all of their behaviors. And if it were my own child, I would be as loving as I can about it. I may go to their wedding but I would make it clear I do not support having intimate relations with the same sex. You telling me I cannot have that belief is contradictory to what you believe 'everyone live their own truth'. My TRUTH says same sex relations is wrong. You telling me I am wrong is going against your very belief that everyone can believe whatever they want as long as they don't harm anyone. I am not harming anyone with my belief. Just like someone who believes women should be covered (muslims) isn't harming anyone (and they also believe same sex relations is wrong).

I think you may have a distorted view on morality. Morality tells us what is right and wrong, it doesn't tell us not to judge behavior. Morality IS judging behavior. Yes same sex attracted people have every right to be in a relationship. I never said they don't have a right to be in that relationship. Don't put words in my mouth. I am not authoritarian as you suggest. Having morals does not equal being authoritarian. Have you ever fathered a child? If you have no authority over that child you will be an utter failure as a parent. Authority is not wrong. Being authoritative is not the same as being authoritarian. My authority is the God of the Bible YAHWEH. And I do submit to that authority. He said marriage is between man and woman and let no man separate what he has created. "Jesus replied. “But at the beginning of creation God ‘made them male and female.’ For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

Peat says it is the prenatal estrogen exposure that determines all of this. So they may have normal levels, but the exposure while developing could have altered the biological state. Our environmental exposure to estrogen is far greater than ever. We need to protect the growing baby from this. *Edit* and maybe it is the prenatal testosterone exposure that could result in abnormal sexual development for a woman as well. Not sure, some women do produce more testosterone especially if they don't feel safe in the world.

Marriage is FAR more than a piece of paper. It is a celebration of your LIFELONG commitment to that person. Have you told your girlfriend you will never leave her? That you will be her husband for the rest of her life? If not this is risky behavior and selfish. If you have committed to care for her for the rest of her life, and your friends and family know this as well, fine, but why not make it official so that if you were to die she'd have rights to your estate? Not wanting to do this reveals a lot about a person. Trust issues are a big reason for this. And to be committed you have to trust the person won't leave you and cheat on you. The divorce rate is high because humans are selfish, they have no idea what it takes to love someone. Attraction is the beginning of a relationship, but it isn't the only reason for being with someone the rest of your life. I would hope women aren't just settling for someone because they are attracted to them.

I think we've both expressed our positions clearly enough, we can leave it there. Good luck!