Latest Hair Studies: Hairloss Is Caused By Immune Imbalance

Jarman

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May 24, 2016
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64
Pretty recent discoveries, only a few months old:

We Now Have The First Evidence That Immune Cells in The Skin Directly Trigger Hair Growth

New Hair Growth Mechanism Discovered

New cause of baldness accidentally discovered by scientists could lead to new treatment

Tregs: Hair Loss Linked to Faulty Immune Cells | Top Hair Loss Treatments

Tregs are not immunosuppressant, they are immune regulators telling t-cells what to attack and what to leave alone

From wikipedia:

The regulatory T cells (Tregs /ˈtiːrɛɡ/), formerly known as suppressor T cells, are a subpopulation of T cells which modulate the immune system, maintain tolerance to self-antigens, and prevent autoimmune disease. Tregs are immunosuppressive and generally suppress or downregulate induction and proliferation of effector T cells.[1] Tregs express the biomarkers CD4, FOXP3, and CD25 and are thought to be derived from the same lineage as naïve CD4 cells.[2] Because effector T cells also express CD4 and CD25, Tregs are very difficult to effectively discern from effector CD4+, making them difficult to study. Recent research has found that the cytokine TGFβ is essential for Tregs to differentiate from naïve CD4+ cells and is important in maintaining Treg homeostasis.[3]

Mouse models have suggested that modulation of Tregs can treat autoimmune disease and cancer and can facilitate organ transplantation.[4] Their implications for cancer are complicated. Tregs tend to be upregulated in individuals with cancer, and they seem to be recruited to the site of many tumors. Studies in both humans and animal models have implicated that high numbers of Tregs in the tumor microenvironment is indicative of a poor prognosis, and Tregs are thought to suppress tumor immunity, thus hindering the body's innate ability to control the growth of cancerous cells.[5] Recent immunotherapy research is studying how regulation of T cells could possibly be utilized in the treatment of cancer.[6]
 

Mossy

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Forgot to say that too much Tregs isn't good either. It leads to impaired immunity: Regulatory T cells (Tregs): The Missing Link To Cure Autoimmune and Inflammatory Disorders - Selfhacked

So just need the right balance. Not too much, not too little.
I'm going to take a look into these links, but thought I'd ask, did you glean any key practical points that you could share that would educate the layman on Tregs?

Something that caught my eye right off, on that first link, was the promo for an anti-DHT supplement, as well as a comment in the article: "Hair loss treatments that reduce DHT are effective at preventing further hair loss but are less effective at actually regrowing lost hair." I know not everyone accepts this, but there are many comments and references on this forum, and pro-Peat writings elsewhere, that claim DHT is not the problem. I mention this as a question of whether this Tregs perspective is linked to the anti-DHT perspective, and how these would jive with a Peat perspective.
 
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Recent research has found that the cytokine TGFβ is essential for Tregs to differentiate from naïve CD4+ cells and is important in maintaining Treg homeostasis.[3]
Aided by vitamin A, which also lowers sebum :emoji_thinking: :cool and helps acne not only like that but also by preventing keratin plugs (keratin is failure to differentiate as per Ray Peat) :ss2 :emoji_thinking:
 

CLASH

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@Mossy
T-regs are dependent on the colonic microfolora. From what I understand and my own experience with hair loss, intestinal inflammation is the main culprit of hairloss, I think on multiple fronts:
1) Intestinal inflammation upregulates in general way the adrenal gland leading to production of aldosterone, cortisol and DHEA. People on here have talked about bald men having hirsute properties, this is DHEA from the adrenal gland being converted in DHT and estrogen I think. The upregulation of cortisol leads to the expression of aromatas in the body causing DHEA to convert to estrogen and when it converts to DHT the tissue environment, I think, causes DHT to convert to estrogenic beta-diols. This combination of estrogen, mineralocorticoids, glucocorticoids and estrogenic DHT derivates is what leads to hairloss
2) this T-reg is a new component in the hairloss paradigm in a more direct way atleast. The T-reg, as the name suggest regulate inflammation (colonic dysbiosis upregulates inflammation upregulates the adrenals and downregulates T-regs. Lack of T-regs also allows inflammation to increase thus the cycle becomes self perpetuating). They are dependent on the colonic microflora. Without them you develop autoimmunity. I think all hairloss is a variation of these mechanisms. These studies now indicate its more direct than I thought in the sense that you need T-regs to regrow hair. This I think is the reason that you arent seeing bald men regrow hair; no one is addressing the underlying problem with thier colonic ecosystem, just taking ridiculous drugs that are very specific and have no context of the problem.
To summarize, colonic dysbiosis leads to inflammation directly and downregulation of T-regs, upregulates the adrenals leading to hairloss through cortisol, aldosterone and DHEA/ DHT/ estrogen derivatives and overactice immune response.
The cure is to address your intestinal issue I think; the ecosystem needs to be fixed.


"Foxp3+ regulatory T cells (Tregs) are key suppressive cell types that regulate autoimmune inflammation in the body (23). In the gut, Tregs accumulate under steady-state conditions where they play an important role in the regulation of inflammation against microbial stimuli."

"Tregs are critical for the prevention of spontaneous inflammation against commensal microbes (Fig. 1). In antibiotic-treated mice or GF mice, Tregs remain detectable, but their numbers are significantly decreased in the intestinal LP, suggesting that the microbiota promotes the differentiation and/or maintenance of Tregs (26, 27). Colonization of GF mice with 46 strains of Clostridium(26), or with a cocktail of 8 defined commensals, called altered Schaedler flora (ASF) is sufficient to induce Tregs in the gut (26, 27). "

"Treg development is largely dependent on the microbiota in the colon, but not in the small intestine."

Role of the Gut Microbiota in the Development and Function of Lymphoid Cells

----------------------------------------
@Travis
@haidut

Both have discussed hairloss as a function of general adrenal upregulation. Travis has discussed anti-glucocorticoids and mineralcorticoids to treat hair loss as well as topical cyclosporin and vit D ( @Such_Saturation also mentioned vit a; D and A go hand in hand). All of these things, I think are indications of the true cause. I dont think they are the cure tho, all of them have significant side effects and from what I undersrand need to be used continuously. Also, the inflammation is still going on elsewhere, now its just blocked locally at the scalp or from some endpoints in the pathways with the drugs; definetly not a cure.


this is travis (hope its ok I quote you, Your posts are great):

"I think it's multifactorial; a cross between three separate pathways:

➤ Cortisol is the big one. This is greatly increased in males and acts directly on the mineralcorticoid receptor shortening the anagen phase. This has been proven directly in vitro: with a hair follicle, some cortisol, and a clock. Mice with overexpressed mineralcorticoid receptor in their skin are nude throughout life, and mineralcorticoid-inhibitors (spironolactone, cyclosporin) cause spontaneous and hairgrowth in most cases. Hydrocortisone directly thins hair when applied topically.

➤ Vitamin D analogues have been shown to stimulate hair growth. Vitamin D receptor null mice are totally hairless, always. The use of a hat can lower vitamin D on the scalp.

➤ Something must be said about ischemic hair loss, or cardiovascular hair loss. The vessels near the crown of the head are the thinnest and the first to suffer restriction of blood flow. There is a strong correlation between cardiovascular disease and balding.

Dihyrotestosterone stimulates hair growth in certain areas only. The scalp does not appear to be DHT-responsive. Only the hairs that grow at puberty are DHT-responsive follicles. The entire androgen paradigm came from Hamilton in the 30s based on logic and epidemiological evidence alone. This would make total sense if it weren't for the fact that males also have higher cortisol, wear hats, and get more cardiovascular disease. Shortly after, dozens or hundreds of experiments have shown cortisol to be a powerful killer of hair follicles in rats, cats, dogs, and even...sheep."

"I wan't to say that the hirsutism is caused by androgens. I'm fairly certain that it's actually defined this way. Androgens stimulate the growth of facial hair, and the other hair characteristic of males.

But I think the cortisol and aldosterone causes the balding of the scalp.

Certain follicles respond differently than others to particular steroid hormones. This has been shown in vitro. Emotional shock is one well-known initiator of scalp hair loss in women, a phenomenon almost certainly caused by the stress hormone cortisol.

Maybe Cushing's Disease is just hypercorticolism? Imagine a nonspecific overstimulation of the adrenal glands: this might produce cortisol, aldosterone, and the androgens. All three of these are produced mainly by the adrenal glands. In such a scenario you might actually expect scalp balding from both aldosterone and cortisol, but also androgen-stimulated hair growth elsewhereat places which have actually been shown responsive to DHT, like the beard:"

"
Spironolactone works some, and is a purported DHT receptor antagonist; this is what the DHT proponents will say. However, it actually was originally designed as mineralcorticoid receptor agonist.
Mineralocorticoid receptor antagonists: the evolution of utility and pharmacology." Kidney international 57.4 (2000): 1408-1411.
†Wysocki, G. P., and T. D. Daley. "Hypertrichosis in patients receiving cyclosporine therapy." Clinical and experimental dermatology 12.3 (1987): 191-196."

Hered the thread where its discussed: Announcement - Regarding The Recent @gbolduev Threads
 
Last edited:

Mossy

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Jun 2, 2017
Messages
1,168
@Mossy
T-regs are dependent on the colonic microfolora. From what I understand and my own experience with hair loss, intestinal inflammation is the main culprit of hairloss, I think on multiple fronts:
1) Intestinal inflammation upregulates in general way the adrenal gland leading to production of aldosterone, cortisol and DHEA. People on here have talked about bald men having hirsute properties, this is DHEA from the adrenal gland being converted in DHT and estrogen I think. The upregulation of cortisol leads to the expression of aromatas in the body causing DHEA to convert to estrogen and when it converts to DHT the tissue environment, I think, causes DHT to convert to estrogenic beta-diols. This combination of estrogen, mineralocorticoids, glucocorticoids and estrogenic DHT derivates is what leads to hairloss
2) this T-reg is a new component in the hairloss paradigm in a more direct way atleast. The T-reg, as the name suggest regulate inflammation (colonic dysbiosis upregulates inflammation upregulates the adrenals and downregulates T-regs. Lack of T-regs also allows inflammation to increase thus the cycle becomes self perpetuating). They are dependent on the colonic microflora. Without them you develop autoimmunity. I think all hairloss is a variation of these mechanisms. These studies now indicate its more direct than I thought in the sense that you need T-regs to regrow hair. This I think is the reason that you arent seeing bald men regrow hair; no one is addressing the underlying problem with thier colonic ecosystem, just taking ridiculous drugs that are very specific and have no context of the problem.
To summarize, colonic dysbiosis leads to inflammation directly and downregulation of T-regs, upregulates the adrenals leading to hairloss through cortisol, aldosterone and DHEA/ DHT/ estrogen derivatives and overactice immune response.
The cure is to address your intestinal issue I think; the ecosystem needs to be fixed.


"Foxp3+ regulatory T cells (Tregs) are key suppressive cell types that regulate autoimmune inflammation in the body (23). In the gut, Tregs accumulate under steady-state conditions where they play an important role in the regulation of inflammation against microbial stimuli."

"Tregs are critical for the prevention of spontaneous inflammation against commensal microbes (Fig. 1). In antibiotic-treated mice or GF mice, Tregs remain detectable, but their numbers are significantly decreased in the intestinal LP, suggesting that the microbiota promotes the differentiation and/or maintenance of Tregs (26, 27). Colonization of GF mice with 46 strains of Clostridium(26), or with a cocktail of 8 defined commensals, called altered Schaedler flora (ASF) is sufficient to induce Tregs in the gut (26, 27). "

"Treg development is largely dependent on the microbiota in the colon, but not in the small intestine."

Role of the Gut Microbiota in the Development and Function of Lymphoid Cells

Thank you, CLASH, for the in-depth answer.

Much of what you mention is consistent to my state of health, though I am doing a decent amount better than I once was. At the start of my health decline (or should I say collapse), the glaring aspects that stood out were my hyper-sensitive digestive system and easily triggered allergic/histamine reactions. I'm self-diagnosing here, aligning my symptoms to those of intestinal inflammation, or at least some degree of it. Also consistent with your explanation, are my hirsute properties, which I would define as medium to medium-heavy, having progressed consistent to the thinning and loss of my head hair. So, your explanation has motivated me to dig into this some more. This is the first I've heard of estrogenic DHT derivates. With my limited understanding, I always thought DHT to be kind of a lone good guy that could do no wrong, within the realm of hormones. Maybe it can be said it's being manipulated by DHEA.

If your time allows, here are a couple additional questions:

With regard to combating this colon inflammation, do you have any thoughts on using B2 (R5P), as described in a post by Haidut: Vitamin B2 (riboflavin) Positively Modulates The Microbiome ?

Because I've only read good things about DHT, I've been attempting to raise mine. Do you have any thoughts on this, as long as there is an attempt made to combat the colon inflammation?
 

CLASH

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@Mossy

I think the R5P is helpful, I've used energin for a while and it has been very helpful *topically applied (@haidut). I don't think it is a cure tho. B-vitamins from what I have read are quorum sensing molecules for bacteria that can initiate biofilm formation depending on concentration, hence why I recommend topical application. To use energin and fat solubles in the meantime of having the issue has been helpful (I'm not 100% yet but definitely doing better) but I don't think they will cure the problem themselves. I think you need to reestablish your colonic flora. I think using raw A2 or raw goat milk is the most effective. Breast milk establishes our micro biome from birth and I think its the most effective tool to return us or bring us back to equilibrium. I don't really recommend many supps besides the basic vitamins. I have had too many weird experiences with them. I think diet is the best option.

I think DHT is secondary to the systemic issue. The environment is what determines the conversation of DHT. I think fixing the environment it primary, DHT is secondary. I have a few other posts on the forum talking about these things specifically, if you want to check them out it may be helpful.

Hope this helps Mossy,
Let me know if you see any changes!
 

Mossy

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Messages
1,168
@Mossy

I think the R5P is helpful, I've used energin for a while and it has been very helpful *topically applied (@haidut). I don't think it is a cure tho. B-vitamins from what I have read are quorum sensing molecules for bacteria that can initiate biofilm formation depending on concentration, hence why I recommend topical application. To use energin and fat solubles in the meantime of having the issue has been helpful (I'm not 100% yet but definitely doing better) but I don't think they will cure the problem themselves. I think you need to reestablish your colonic flora. I think using raw A2 or raw goat milk is the most effective. Breast milk establishes our micro biome from birth and I think its the most effective tool to return us or bring us back to equilibrium. I don't really recommend many supps besides the basic vitamins. I have had too many weird experiences with them. I think diet is the best option.

I think DHT is secondary to the systemic issue. The environment is what determines the conversation of DHT. I think fixing the environment it primary, DHT is secondary. I have a few other posts on the forum talking about these things specifically, if you want to check them out it may be helpful.

Hope this helps Mossy,
Let me know if you see any changes!

I wonder how effective the R5P would be topically, as compared to internal -- my thought would be to mix it in coconut oil. Do you have to use a large amount of energin topically, due to the external application?

I've seen A2 at the store, but thought maybe it was another selling gimmick. I'll take a look at it next time. Do you think colostrum would be as effective? I do try to limit my supps as well, but ultimately, they do seem to help. I just need to fine tune them and use as little as possible.

I'll take a look at some of your other threads so you don't have to repeat yourself.

Thanks for the follow up!
 

CLASH

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@Mossy
Interestingly enough, I have never taken R5P alone and I have never taken energin internally, I have only used energin at 10-20 drops a day topically but rubbed in really well. Initially I noticed immediate effects from this when I was at my worst (it helped to lift some depression, tho not conpletely). The only reason I have kept energin is because I have noticed consistent benefit from it and have never had a bad reaction. So to answer your question directly, no I dont think its neccesary to use a large amount.

For the milk, I think it should be raw milk. The store bought milk made me pretty sick over time (i'm 6'2" 180-190lbs, about 10% body fat generally, on store bought grass fed organic milk from organic valley I went up to 210lbs closer to 15-20% bodyfat, had worse digestion, developed very minor gyno). For a period of time I dropped milk entirely and in 2 weeks of dropping I went back to 180lbs haha. Then I tried raw goats milk. I drink a little more than 1/2 gallon a day with a quart of raw goat kefir a day made from kefir grains and I have been fine. No digestive distress, no weight gain, no gyno, hairloss has completely stopped (when I stopped milk I also tried a round of tetracycline which gave me an ulcer in my colon that I coulf physically feel and blood in my stools. Milk made this go away). After this I read a ton of articles on milk and a few things clicked in:
1)milk contains bioactive peptides that are released from the hydrolysis of the proteins in the stomach. The peptides function from antibacterial, to anti-hypertensive etc. (lactoferrin, lysozyme etc.)
2) pastuerization destroys the protein structure, the reason the temperatures for pasteurizarion are what they are is to denature enzymes (heats damages proteins, its basic basic biology, present in the beggining of every bio text book. Haha I dont mean to sound like gbolduev, I promise :)) by destroying the protein structure with pasteurization I think the bioactivity and digestibility of milk is negatively effected For alot of people
3) the fat structure of milk with casein and calcium is unique and beneficial for us
4) homegenization destroys this structure (if energy and structure are related and structure is determinant of the state of organic molecules function then destroying the structure in my mind doesnt seem to ideal) homogenization forces the fat globules at high pressure through porous membranes if im not mistaken. This breaks them thus damaging the structure and the digestibility.
5) raw milk contains bacteria that are supposed to colonize the gut and establish an ecosystem. It is our starter flora. Pasteurization messes this up.
6) A1 milk has a substitution of histidine for proline in BCM-7 and opioid like peptide that gets hydrolyzed from casein. The histidine amino acid changed the structure allowing BCM-7 to become free and induce opioid/ inflammatory effects on the GI tract. (Look up the 4 phases of protein structure online, its makes alot of sense if u consider all of these things in that context). There are published studies online in vivo in people showing this. Also in vivo in rats with direct immune markers showing this.
7) goat milk is the closest to breast milk in numerous ways. Its much easier to digest. In the 1800s babiese were given goat milk as formula by midwives because it was superior to cows milk when mothers couldnt nurse. it has a higher amount of GOS (galactoligosaccharides) which allow for the specific fermentation of bifido and lactobacillus among many other components.

Basically milk is an antibiotic, that contains the right bacteria and the right substrate for them to ferment. It is the cure for the gut I think. As long as it is the right type. The devil is always in the details. I think ray misses some of the details but his overall paradigm is very sound.

As for colostrum, I think it would be good to try, but raw and fresh from a farmer. Once the manyfactuerers get there hands on it, i think it becomes adultered.

No problem. I know how it feels to have issues with health and be in the search for answers. People on this forum have helped me immensely with thier information and conversations. I'd like to return the favor with things that have greatly helped me.

Also, one more thing, the ideal way to drink milk is at body temperature (also make sure to permeat ur saliva with the milk to initiate digestion and allow ur body to register the taste and thus prime ur GI tract for whats coming). Ur body maintains that specific temp for enzyme function. By drinking 1qt of cold milk u lower ur internal temp and make digestion very difficult for your body. I see people complain about thier temps and fluids here alot. If u drink gallons of cold fluid all day, ur going to lower ur body temp. Waters ability to adjust temperature is very strong, it has a high specific heat.
 

Mossy

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Jun 2, 2017
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1,168
@Mossy
Interestingly enough, I have never taken R5P alone and I have never taken energin internally, I have only used energin at 10-20 drops a day topically but rubbed in really well. Initially I noticed immediate effects from this when I was at my worst (it helped to lift some depression, tho not conpletely). The only reason I have kept energin is because I have noticed consistent benefit from it and have never had a bad reaction. So to answer your question directly, no I dont think its neccesary to use a large amount.

For the milk, I think it should be raw milk. The store bought milk made me pretty sick over time (i'm 6'2" 180-190lbs, about 10% body fat generally, on store bought grass fed organic milk from organic valley I went up to 210lbs closer to 15-20% bodyfat, had worse digestion, developed very minor gyno). For a period of time I dropped milk entirely and in 2 weeks of dropping I went back to 180lbs haha. Then I tried raw goats milk. I drink a little more than 1/2 gallon a day with a quart of raw goat kefir a day made from kefir grains and I have been fine. No digestive distress, no weight gain, no gyno, hairloss has completely stopped (when I stopped milk I also tried a round of tetracycline which gave me an ulcer in my colon that I coulf physically feel and blood in my stools. Milk made this go away). After this I read a ton of articles on milk and a few things clicked in:
1)milk contains bioactive peptides that are released from the hydrolysis of the proteins in the stomach. The peptides function from antibacterial, to anti-hypertensive etc. (lactoferrin, lysozyme etc.)
2) pastuerization destroys the protein structure, the reason the temperatures for pasteurizarion are what they are is to denature enzymes (heats damages proteins, its basic basic biology, present in the beggining of every bio text book. Haha I dont mean to sound like gbolduev, I promise :)) by destroying the protein structure with pasteurization I think the bioactivity and digestibility of milk is negatively effected For alot of people
3) the fat structure of milk with casein and calcium is unique and beneficial for us
4) homegenization destroys this structure (if energy and structure are related and structure is determinant of the state of organic molecules function then destroying the structure in my mind doesnt seem to ideal) homogenization forces the fat globules at high pressure through porous membranes if im not mistaken. This breaks them thus damaging the structure and the digestibility.
5) raw milk contains bacteria that are supposed to colonize the gut and establish an ecosystem. It is our starter flora. Pasteurization messes this up.
6) A1 milk has a substitution of histidine for proline in BCM-7 and opioid like peptide that gets hydrolyzed from casein. The histidine amino acid changed the structure allowing BCM-7 to become free and induce opioid/ inflammatory effects on the GI tract. (Look up the 4 phases of protein structure online, its makes alot of sense if u consider all of these things in that context). There are published studies online in vivo in people showing this. Also in vivo in rats with direct immune markers showing this.
7) goat milk is the closest to breast milk in numerous ways. Its much easier to digest. In the 1800s babiese were given goat milk as formula by midwives because it was superior to cows milk when mothers couldnt nurse. it has a higher amount of GOS (galactoligosaccharides) which allow for the specific fermentation of bifido and lactobacillus among many other components.

Basically milk is an antibiotic, that contains the right bacteria and the right substrate for them to ferment. It is the cure for the gut I think. As long as it is the right type. The devil is always in the details. I think ray misses some of the details but his overall paradigm is very sound.

As for colostrum, I think it would be good to try, but raw and fresh from a farmer. Once the manyfactuerers get there hands on it, i think it becomes adultered.

No problem. I know how it feels to have issues with health and be in the search for answers. People on this forum have helped me immensely with thier information and conversations. I'd like to return the favor with things that have greatly helped me.

Also, one more thing, the ideal way to drink milk is at body temperature (also make sure to permeat ur saliva with the milk to initiate digestion and allow ur body to register the taste and thus prime ur GI tract for whats coming). Ur body maintains that specific temp for enzyme function. By drinking 1qt of cold milk u lower ur internal temp and make digestion very difficult for your body. I see people complain about thier temps and fluids here alot. If u drink gallons of cold fluid all day, ur going to lower ur body temp. Waters ability to adjust temperature is very strong, it has a high specific heat.

Good information -- thank you.

Ok, I'll give raw milk a shot. I was raised on it, from a local farm, but I have to be honest and say I thought maybe some of my poor immune system issues may have come from raw milk, bad bacteria, if that's even possible. Keep in mind, this is a huge assumption/stab-in-the-dark on my part, after running through my history and grabbing at what I could, in an attempt to understand my poor health. I've never officially been diagnosed with anything from western medicine, but several years ago was told by a Traditional Chinese Medicine doctor that my immune system was at a "zero". I had a severe infection as a teenager that required an ER visit and penicillin shot, and persistent symptoms since my early teens that have been suggestive of a poor immune system: candida (is this even a real thing?), histamine/allergic effects, coated tongue, dehydrated system, and imbalanced fight-or-flight. My current 7-year poor health/hypothyroidish tail-spin tends to point to my poor health as a youngster as the catalyst, and maybe something that was inevitable as I aged. After implementing some Peatisms, I am doing better as a whole, but clearly not 100%, yet. For me, one of the greatest victories of Peating was the extreme reduction and near 100% elimination of the coated tongue. :claporange And the tongue is a very telling sign in TCM.

So, in keeping with this thread, in an effort to get my pompador back :wink, my objective will be to eliminate GI inflammation, balance my flora, and get my Tregs up, by:

1) Changing to raw milk. I'll go with cow's milk for now, as I prefer it over goat. If I notice no changes, then maybe I'll go to goat milk.
2) Possibly try a 5-day stint with the R5P, as described by Haidut, here: Vitamin B2 (riboflavin) Positively Modulates The Microbiome . I say possibly, because when testing this with a much smaller dose (10mg) than the protocol calls for (1mg/kg daily), I had some insomnia. I may even try it topically, in coconut oil. Maybe on the abdomen.
3) Possibly supplement with colostrum, though I wouldn't be able to get farm fresh, right now. I do have what claims to be the best supplemental version available: raw, no additional ingredients, and collected within the first 6 hours of birth.

CLASH, I appreciate all the detail you've provided. Hopefully this will help others as well. I welcome any additional insight you have, and will post back as it seems relevant.
 

CLASH

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All sound pretty good, just make sure your cow milk is A2 considering your experience with raw milk as a kid and maybe try staggering things that your going to try a bit so you know whats working for you. Also, based on haiduts study you probably want to take the R5P internally, i didnr have anything against it, I just never took energin internally haha. Overall, definetly seems like the biggest issue is some type of gut problem.

If you dont start to see improvements after a 2-4 week period or so perhaps a stool test and some blood work would be helpful to really see whats going on. I dont recommend these first because theyre expensive but knowing what the issue is, is extemely helpful when all else seemingly fails. Let me know how things are going and I can recommend the bloodwork and stool testing if you need it.

Also, this blog has alot of interesting info about some of the gut things, much better than the paleo BS we are seeing now: Cooling Inflammation: Biofilm Transformation, Helicobacter, Klebsiella

I dont agree with the authors conclusions on alot of things, but the information and thought processes are interesting and eye opening.
 

Madato

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Sep 20, 2017
Messages
66
From a purely empirical and observational point of view: most guys balding on their scalp have full, dense and coarse facial hair.
Most guys with a full and dense head of hair have barely any facial hair.

That leads me to think DHT is the main culprit when it comes to hairloss
 

inmyhead

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Jun 21, 2017
Messages
25
From a purely empirical and observational point of view: most guys balding on their scalp have full, dense and coarse facial hair.
Most guys with a full and dense head of hair have barely any facial hair.

That leads me to think DHT is the main culprit when it comes to hairloss

yes, i'm hairy as ****. Also my beard grows super fast, yet i'm balding at 21...
 

CLASH

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Yes DHT causes hairloss but it is not the cause hairloss.

The real question is whats causing DHT to raise in the tissues like it is and cause this specific effect. DHT in the scalp is an indicator or a messenger of an underlying problem, it itself is not the problem (same thing with cholesterol and heart disease to some extent). I think looking at the bigger picture is what will find everyone thier hairloss cure. The current state of understanding with DHT and hairloss is one of trying to view the world on google maps while zoomed in at the street level... reductionism will only get you so far in an organic environment thats synergistic. 1+1=/= 2 in the real world...
 

Mossy

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All sound pretty good, just make sure your cow milk is A2 considering your experience with raw milk as a kid and maybe try staggering things that your going to try a bit so you know whats working for you. Also, based on haiduts study you probably want to take the R5P internally, i didnr have anything against it, I just never took energin internally haha. Overall, definetly seems like the biggest issue is some type of gut problem.

If you dont start to see improvements after a 2-4 week period or so perhaps a stool test and some blood work would be helpful to really see whats going on. I dont recommend these first because theyre expensive but knowing what the issue is, is extemely helpful when all else seemingly fails. Let me know how things are going and I can recommend the bloodwork and stool testing if you need it.

Also, this blog has alot of interesting info about some of the gut things, much better than the paleo BS we are seeing now: Cooling Inflammation: Biofilm Transformation, Helicobacter, Klebsiella

I dont agree with the authors conclusions on alot of things, but the information and thought processes are interesting and eye opening.

I thought I'd share some findings and thoughts on my pursuit of higher quality milk. Currently, budget is the number one factor, and convenience a close second second. It's my hope that both of these factors will become less important, soon.

Well, with these factors in mind, I have two options:
1) Organic raw grass-fed: www.organicpastures.com
2) A2 homogenized and pasteurized milk: a2 Milk®: Easy to Digest, Healthy, A1 Protein-Free | a2 Milk® USA
Prior to doing a quick read up on A2 milk (per Clash's inspiration), I would've chosen option 1 over option 2 --and I still may--but the whole A2 perspective has gotten my attention: A2 Milk Facts - California Dairy Research Foundation. No doubt, my ultimate goal is to locate organic raw grass-fed A2; but, until then, I'll have to choose from these two options.

Clash, and anyone else, do you see the negatives of homogenized and pasteurized A2 as too negative and detrimental to gut health; or, do you see the value of the A2 beta-casein as too important to pass up? And, as for the organic raw grass-fed (non-A2), do you see more advantages in what this offers, and consider the A2 beta-casein of a lesser value?

Ultimately, I'll have to choose, but if time and interest allow, I welcome any input.

 

EIRE24

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Joined
Apr 9, 2015
Messages
1,784
Aided by vitamin A, which also lowers sebum :emoji_thinking: :cool and helps acne not only like that but also by preventing keratin plugs (keratin is failure to differentiate as per Ray Peat) :ss2 :emoji_thinking:
Vitamin A for me never lowered sebum and helped my acne. I think it will only help if you are vitamin A deficient. Thats it.
 

CLASH

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Joined
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Messages
1,163
@Mossy
https://www.realmilk.com/real-milk-finder/california/#ca
Find Local Goat Milk from Fresno, CA Farms and More! | Agrilicious!
What about these websites?

I would go with the raw milk first before the storebought and see how you do. You can only experiment.

Also, For your guys info, I found an interesting connection last night between TLR4 (receptor in the gut that responds to endotoxin from gram negative bacteria) and fibrosis and upregulation of DHT as a protective factor against said fibrosis. I will do a post on it soon.
 
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