Is Racial Animosity Inherent?

[Animalinstinct]

Respectfully, what's your point? I thought I was clear.

Honestly, aside from any indoctrination of thoughts/behaviors/reactions, I feel fairly confident that human beings will overcome differences/attitudes when confronted with a dire problem common to each group. And our world has plenty that threaten our survival as inhabitants of Earth.... screw any borders, real or imagined.........that is before it's so bad we revert to cannibalism!

Who exactly indoctrinates racism in the US? The exact opposite happens - diversity, multiculturalism and white guilt are engraved into childrens' brains throughout their entire upbringing. The whole educational system is built on that. So no, blaming it on evironment won't do.

Just recently I read about a white couple that biked through Africa and Asia to prove evil does not exist. Naturally, they were both murdered. Watch out.

 

[zewe]

@Animalinstinct who do you think builds culture, education, government, religion, etc......people do!

I just try and work in my own sphere of influence and help build a better world, one soul at a time.....this is why I felt so honored to become a mother.

 

[lvysaur]

If you have a source for your argument that East Asians have more similar Y-chromosome haplogroup clusters compared to Europeans, then please present it

You presented it yourself. The Y haplogroup maps you linked shows that East Asians are roughly Hg O, and Europeans are roughly Hg R. R and O both stem from Hg K, meaning that a German R carrier is more closely related (via haplogroup only, not autosomes) to a Chinese O carrier, than to a Mideastern J carrier (or a fellow German J/I/E carrier for that matter).

Skin color has relevance because people, including babies (@Animalinstinct) judge based upon skin color. Not innately given, racial prejudice develops over the early formative years of our life, so that we can form attachments with people like ourselves and ensure our own safety.
When observing others in pain, people experience greater empathy and emotion when people of their own race are in pain.

Well, you essentially proved my point. Racial prejudice is something that is learned. If you raised a white baby in Japan, it would be less racist toward Asians than a white baby raised in Montana. If you raised it in among the Himba or something, it might even be racist toward whites (I've read accounts of tribal babies crying upon seeing whites for the first time).

"Mixed-race Whites and Asians show significantly greater risk for considering suicide

analgesic opioid use was comparatively prevalent among adolescents of Native American (9.7%) and multiple race/ethnicity (8.8%). Among 27 705 past-year alcohol or drug users, Native Americans (31.5%), adolescents of multiple race/ethnicity (25.2%), adolescents of white race/ethnicity (22.9%)

Whites are also at greater risk for committing suicide than Hispanics or blacks; doesn't that just make mixed people more white-like? Unless white is bad, of course. Mixed adolescents have a 2.3% difference in opioid abuse from whites, forgive me for not losing my head over that.

Furthermore, the point is whether these differences are inherent, which they are almost certainly not; as society continues to become more socially accepting (which has been shown to be the long term trend in the US and the world, Trump notwithstanding), these people will experience less stress, and the types of people who enter interracial unions in the first place will become more and more "average" and less self-selectedly "alternative" (which could be responsible for some of the disparity).

Lastly, aren't you ethnically Jewish? You commented on another thread stating that Jews have higher IQs with this smiley: :^)

I don't see what that has to do with anything, nor do I have to be Jewish to use a right wing talking point against itself.

 

[Stramonium]

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[DaveFoster]

You presented it yourself. The Y haplogroup maps you linked shows that East Asians are roughly Hg O, and Europeans are roughly Hg R. R and O both stem from Hg K, meaning that a German R carrier is more closely related (via haplogroup only, not autosomes) to a Chinese O carrier, than to a Mideastern J carrier (or a fellow German J/I/E carrier for that matter).

Alright, fair point.

Well, you essentially proved my point. Racial prejudice is something that is learned. If you raised a white baby in Japan, it would be less racist toward Asians than a white baby raised in Montana. If you raised it in among the Himba or something, it might even be racist toward whites (I've read accounts of tribal babies crying upon seeing whites for the first time).

That's anecdotal. If those who have white skin and particular facial features live amongst those who appear different, they will desensitize to the abormality of someone who appears different from themselves or their parents, assuming that their parents have adopted and originate from the predomimant ethnicity, but you need to provide evidence that there would be no a negligible degree of preference remaining.

Functionally, this has no relevance because all races majorly live amongst people who appear like themselves, and even in, say schools with the vast majority of students with white skin, students will still self-segregate on the basis of skin color, as well on the basis of status gender and so on.

Whites are also at greater risk for committing suicide than Hispanics or blacks; doesn't that just make mixed people more white-like? Unless white is bad, of course.

Being multi-racial isn't "bad." "White" men experience higher cortisol levels compared to any other group, which could stem from a myriad of reasons. One such reason: in the U.S., White men provide more economic value than any other race or gender besides Asian men, and they receive the least in government subsidies (welfare.)

Multi-racial people suffer from social dislocations, as they cannot identify with any particular group.

Furthermore, the point is whether these differences are inherent, which they are almost certainly not; as society continues to become more socially accepting (which has been shown to be the long term trend in the US and the world, Trump notwithstanding), these people will experience less stress, and the types of people who enter interracial unions in the first place will become more and more "average" and less self-selectedly "alternative" (which could be responsible for some of the disparity).

I don't see what that has to do with anything, nor do I have to be Jewish to use a right wing talking point against itself.

You yourself would not identify as a "White American" but rather as, assumedly, "Ashkenazi Jewish." As a Jewish American, you would have a dog in the fight and would directly benefit from a reduction of race to a transient and replaceable phenomenon, which would in turn remove justification for loyalty toward one's in-group in terms of race. You would also have a vested self-interest if you happened to be one who identified as multi-racial.

Do you plan on having relationships and children with someone outside your own ethnicity? If you did either or both, you would more rapidly realize a less stressful and more moral world in your view.

Also, do you believe that the U.S. should allow more people to emigrate here? You mentioned that Trump rests as a less "socially accepting" figure.

 

[lvysaur]

Multi-racial people suffer from social dislocations, as they cannot identify with any particular group.

Well yes, and I do like that you agree with me, at least shallowly. Racial dislocations aren't an "inherent" part of a society which has shown a long term trend toward such dislocations diminishing, and globalization of culture consumption.

These things are no more inherent than metabolic sickness; both exist because society happens to be one way, but can easily be overcome with environmental changes. Obviously more people want to try eating coconut oil than immersing themselves in a new culture, both for reasons of convenience (the latter is hard to do) and practicality (you don't actually gain any forseeable benefit from becoming less racist, you do from becoming healthy)

You yourself would not identify as a "White American" but rather as, assumedly, "Ashkenazi Jewish." As a Jewish American, you would have a dog in the fight and would directly benefit from a reduction of race to a transient and replaceable phenomenon

I don't know why you think I'm Jewish, but if I were, your argument would be moot, as Ashkenazi Jews are visually white. The only way Jewish identity would be confirmed is through rigorous genetic testing (and even then it's difficult, though possible, to be distinguished from other south Europeans). Your reasoning would only make sense if I were a visible minority.

On the flip side, I could just as easily say that an internet forum with many white people of ill health would have a dog in this fight for very obvious reasons; racial discrimination increases when resources are scarce, and those in poor health tend to lack resources (with health itself also being perhaps the most important resource).

 

[DaveFoster]

Disease doesn't equal racial preference. If you're going to draw such a reaching analogy, then you should refer to foods culturally conditioned to not provoke a response of disgust, such as raw vegetables, which Dr. Peat mentions as a by-product of cultural conditioning (that is, not to reject the vegetables.)

Here's some figures. (Ignore the error for the first image.)

Since you did not disclose if you have any plans to marry or have children outside your ethnicity, then I will assume that you don't. I also venture to guess that you live in a predominantly middle-class or wealthier neighborhood, and that your neighbors mostly descend from Europeans.

Robert Putnam's Bowling Alone showcases his academic work and shows how racial and cultural heterogeneity leads to lower social trust and a breakdown in communities.

Your idealism resembles Communism, which supposed that if only we could abrogate all economic inequality, then we will can finally transform into a higher being, a New Soviet Man. Communism saw individuals as interchangeable and failed miserably. "If only we could all be healthy," then we would all be perfectly aligned and can seamlessly live in close proximity exemplifies the Duning-Kruger effect, and I had the same perspective before I understood the overwhelming complexity of something such as "race," not that I do understand it now, and also the inevitability of stress.

Even within families or spousal relationships people find difficulty living alongside one another with daily challenges, and your idea that people with divergent physiognomy; physiology, brain structure and volume including IQ, itself the strongest independent predictor for socioeconomic success and a strong predictor for criminality; emotional and behavioral tendencies relating to both genetics and brain structure and also including orientations toward personal values; and massive divergence in cultures and history can all coexist with unified social and political goals, as well as values has such boundless absurdity and flies in the face of all the empirical data that clearly illustrate absolute disparities both historically and presently among racial groups in all walks of life, as well as ever-increasing levels of both racial and religious tension.

Degrees of growth can result from interracial or cross-cultural relationships, but positive growth comes more easily with a willing engagement (in a literal sense in this case.) Even within a workplace, for example, workers self-segregate and there's little resentment between groups, and the same happens in prison, or on the aggregate level with "white flight." Tensions arise in the context of, as you pointed out, scarce resources or conflicting political interests (again involving resource distribution.) One can argue that Europeans have a more "understanding" political system, but the relatively lower proportion of minorities makes such a point moot, and if you take into account current ethnocentric populist movements in response to the migrant crisis, Europe has a much lesser degree of "tolerance" compared to the U.S., albeit European countries have significantly more Islamist terrorism, so the line remains greyed. Even so, Europeans and their descendants created the West, the only culture that offers significant altruistic provisions for other cultures and indeed minority members of its own cultures. Russia, for example violently stamps out any aggression from Chechnya immediately. Recently, increasingly vitriolic and explicit hatred of those descended from Europeans, particularly in educative and media institutions, which influence the public, have led to the rise of neoreactionaries, who head most European countries and the U.S. toward civil war or closed-border policies, likely both; civil war will likely involve ethnic cleansing, the vast majority as deportation.

Conservatives and liberals have fundamentally different physiology as well, including varying amygdala sizes, blinking responses to bright light and varying responses to disgust, and there's such a strong appeal in the U.S. for secession or civil war for both political camps, whether Texas or California. Maybe entirely epigenetic, these differences, similar to homosexuality, also likely epigenetic, cause discomfort and breed resentment unless people with different preferences live separately, which precisely happened with the religious settlements in the Thirteen Colonies.

Anyway, thank you for the debate. I'll read any responses, but I will call it this an endpoint for my input.

 

[Jon]

This just sounds like a case of insecurity to me.

I understand all the nuances, and possible scientific correlations with racism...but honestly in my experience, rasicm boils down to the fear of inadequacies being exposed by someone who is possibly superior. If there's anything about this that is "primal" or "innate" it's that when a creature identifies a threat to its acute survival or to its ability to pass on its own genes then it becomes riled and defensive. But really....we're humans, and we don't have to play by the rules of creatures with 1/4 our intelligence...

Making excuses for us acting like animals and validating our reasons for rasicm and ignorant hate towards people with cultural or racial differences is the kind of thing that begins to rationalize atrocity and violence against benign groups who are of little to no consequence to you. That sort of thing leads to the he said she said, they shot first, no they shot first endless, meaningless, bs.

My suggestion to ANYONE who has an underlying prejudice or bigotry is to step outside your comfort zone and perhaps don't shun the idea of getting to know someone from a group you have an underlying disdain for. Most likely you'll let all of that go and realize it was indeed a foolish insecurity on your part, and even if the person you decide to take a chance on proves to be a disappointment, well I think that just speaks to their own character, not their race.

*obviously I'm talking about getting to know your average citizen here, not some extremist, nor suggesting someone throwing themselves into a dangerous situation*

Letting go of ignorant insecurities like these are the very thing that lead to more happiness and less stress in a persons life. Most healthy people I know tend to be unbothered by such things.

 

[Amazoniac]

I understand all the nuances, and possible scientific correlations with racism...but honestly in my experience, rasicm boils down to the fear of inadequacies being exposed by someone who is possibly superior. If there's anything about this that is "primal" or "innate" it's that when a creature identifies a threat to its acute survival or to its ability to pass on its own genes then it becomes riled and defensive.

Beyond Good and Evil, by Friedrich Nietzsche

"251. It must be taken into the bargain, if various clouds and disturbances—in short, slight attacks of stupidity—pass over the spirit of a people that suffers and WANTS to suffer from national nervous fever and political ambition: for instance, among present-day Germans there is alternately the anti-French folly, the anti-Semitic folly, the anti-Polish folly, the Christian-romantic folly, the Wagnerian folly, the Teutonic folly, the Prussian folly (just look at those poor historians, the Sybels and Treitschkes, and their closely bandaged heads), and whatever else these little obscurations of the German spirit and conscience may be called. May it be forgiven me that I, too, when on a short daring sojourn on very infected ground, did not remain wholly exempt from the disease, but like every one else, began to entertain thoughts about matters which did not concern me—the first symptom of political infection.

About the Jews, for instance, listen to the following:—I have never yet met a German who was favourably inclined to the Jews; and however decided the repudiation of actual anti-Semitism may be on the part of all prudent and political men, this prudence and policy is not perhaps directed against the nature of the sentiment itself, but only against its dangerous excess, and especially against the distasteful and infamous expression of this excess of sentiment;—on this point we must not deceive ourselves. That Germany has amply SUFFICIENT Jews, that the German stomach, the German blood, has difficulty (and will long have difficulty) in disposing only of this quantity of "Jew"—as the Italian, the Frenchman, and the Englishman have done by means of a stronger digestion:—that is the unmistakable declaration and language of a general instinct, to which one must listen and according to which one must act. "Let no more Jews come in! And shut the doors, especially towards the East (also towards Austria)!"—thus commands the instinct of a people whose nature is still feeble and uncertain, so that it could be easily wiped out, easily extinguished, by a stronger race. The Jews, however, are beyond all doubt the strongest, toughest, and purest race at present living in Europe, they know how to succeed even under the worst conditions (in fact better than under favourable ones), by means of virtues of some sort, which one would like nowadays to label as vices—owing above all to a resolute faith which does not need to be ashamed before "modern ideas", they alter only, WHEN they do alter, in the same way that the Russian Empire makes its conquest—as an empire that has plenty of time and is not of yesterday—namely, according to the principle, "as slowly as possible"! A thinker who has the future of Europe at heart, will, in all his perspectives concerning the future, calculate upon the Jews, as he will calculate upon the Russians, as above all the surest and likeliest factors in the great play and battle of forces. That which is at present called a "nation" in Europe, and is really rather a RES FACTA than NATA [tut] (indeed, sometimes confusingly similar to a RES FICTA ET PICTA), is in every case something evolving, young, easily displaced, and not yet a race, much less such a race AERE PERENNUS, as the Jews are such "nations" should most carefully avoid all hot-headed rivalry and hostility! It is certain that the Jews, if they desired—or if they were driven to it, as the anti-Semites seem to wish—COULD now have the ascendancy, nay, literally the supremacy, over Europe, that they are NOT working and planning for that end is equally certain. Meanwhile, they rather wish and desire, even somewhat importunely, to be insorbed and absorbed by Europe, they long to be finally settled, authorized, and respected somewhere, and wish to put an end to the nomadic life, to the "wandering Jew",—and one should certainly take account of this impulse and tendency, and MAKE ADVANCES to it (it possibly betokens a mitigation of the Jewish instincts) for which purpose it would perhaps be useful and fair to banish the anti-Semitic bawlers out of the country. One should make advances with all prudence, and with selection, pretty much as the English nobility do It stands to reason that the more powerful and strongly marked types of new Germanism could enter into relation with the Jews with the least hesitation, for instance, the nobleman officer from the Prussian border it would be interesting in many ways to see whether the genius for money and patience (and especially some intellect and intellectuality—sadly lacking in the place referred to) could not in addition be annexed and trained to the hereditary art of commanding and obeying—for both of which the country in question has now a classic reputation But here it is expedient to break off my festal discourse and my sprightly Teutonomania for I have already reached my SERIOUS TOPIC, the "European problem," as I understand it, the rearing of a new ruling caste for Europe."

 

[zewe]

This just sounds like a case of insecurity to me.

I understand all the nuances, and possible scientific correlations with racism...but honestly in my experience, rasicm boils down to the fear of inadequacies being exposed by someone who is possibly superior. If there's anything about this that is "primal" or "innate" it's that when a creature identifies a threat to its acute survival or to its ability to pass on its own genes then it becomes riled and defensive. But really....we're humans, and we don't have to play by the rules of creatures with 1/4 our intelligence...

Making excuses for us acting like animals and validating our reasons for rasicm and ignorant hate towards people with cultural or racial differences is the kind of thing that begins to rationalize atrocity and violence against benign groups who are of little to no consequence to you. That sort of thing leads to the he said she said, they shot first, no they shot first endless, meaningless, bs.

My suggestion to ANYONE who has an underlying prejudice or bigotry is to step outside your comfort zone and perhaps don't shun the idea of getting to know someone from a group you have an underlying disdain for. Most likely you'll let all of that go and realize it was indeed a foolish insecurity on your part, and even if the person you decide to take a chance on proves to be a disappointment, well I think that just speaks to their own character, not their race.

*obviously I'm talking about getting to know your average citizen here, not some extremist, nor suggesting someone throwing themselves into a dangerous situation*

Letting go of ignorant insecurities like these are the very thing that lead to more happiness and less stress in a persons life. Most healthy people I know tend to be unbothered by such things.

@Jon I've been reading your posts here and elsewhere with a happy heart. Son, you ARE a Rainbow Warrior! I'm so glad you live and breathe on the planet.
Hugs,
Michelle

Manataka American Indian Council
Second Message of Manataka

(Excerpts from "Standing Bear Speaks")

What is it that can be said that you have not been told already?

Have you not been told to love one another? Were you told to have no other gods except the Creator and honor your father and mother? Were you told to keep Mother Earth and all things on her sacred?

Our ancient prophesies say a time will come when the blue sky and waters turn black and green things turn brown and die. Animals and fish will disappear and birds will drop from the sky. This devastation will come as a result of man's greed and disrespect for Mother Earth.

A new universe is now flying through the cosmos about to enter the earth's heavens. We can barely see its enormous beak of the Aquarian bird as the stars and planets move to align themselves to the Awakening. The time is not far off when great cataclysmic changes will begin to occur on Earth. Only a few will withstand these extreme alterations and there will be mass unconsciousness. The polarity of man's universe will change. Great institutions, political divisions and economic systems will crumble, chaos will reign for a time.

Among the few who possess inner strength to resist the mass unconsciousness will rise a new neo-indigenous people. Prophesies foretell of a people who will rise from earth's ashes like the thunderbird symbolizing rebirth. They will bring balance and harmony back to Mother Earth. The first of these beings will come as teachers and storytellers to remind us of ancient truths of the star people and beyond. They will be pathfinders leading the way to a new universe, a new reality.

Great leaders spiritual leaders and warriors of many nations will be born and they will cleanse the earth for rebirth. Next will come the Planters sowing seeds of truth, justice and freedom. The Storytellers, Warriors and Planters will live in the way of the Great Spirit and will teach ways to keep Mother of the Ground sacred forevermore.

They will be called Rainbow Warriors for they will gather the four sacred directions, all distinctly separate but forever connected in the Circle of Life. They will bring together the four races of man to live in peace. The four sacred directions and the four races of man are symbolized by the magnificence and glory of the rainbow. The neo-indigenous people of the Rainbow will give praise for the blessings of the Creator's loving grace.

Manataka is home of the Rainbow Woman who sleeps deep within the sacred mountain in the Place of Peace. During the Awakening, she will emerge once more to give rebirth to this new tribe of people who will sing and dance praises to the Great Spirit - Creator under the rainbow. Warriors of the Rainbow will be pathfinders of the principals the people will follow to achieve unity, understanding and love.

The Awakening will bring forth the Rainbow Woman who will show the Warriors the path to the Crystal Cave. The messages of the ancients will be decoded using the seven keys and revealed to the Warriors by the Creator. And each one will be gifted with powers to commune on many planes of existence.

The sacred Circle of Life turns slowly but inevitably back to the place where it began. Thus, we say 'all things that were, will be again. On earth this is true, but this statement is not entirely correct - depending on ones perspective.

As each age passes, it cannot be reclaimed. We cannot go back in time. If we were to look from above at the Circle of Life it would appear as a gigantic spiral. Each age, or revolution of the Circle moves the next Circle to a plane in perfect concentric alignment with the last, but on higher level in the spiral. Those souls who walk the path to higher awareness, consciousness and spirituality move with the spiral to the next plane. Those who do not, do not.

Now is the time we begin to prepare ourselves to become inheritors of Mother Earth, to become Warriors of the Rainbow - for the sake of our children's children and all humanity. The road of the future is not red. It is a rainbow leading to the Creators grace by way of prayer, good works, faith and keeping the ancient traditions.

We must first unshackle ourselves from materialism and organized religious dogma and personal prejudice. There is nothing more important than becoming free in mind, body and soul from modern confusion in order to reach a higher plane of spirituality. Our very survival depends on it. To see the Light of the Rainbow we must quite our minds and feel inner peace and strength that flows as a river, one with nature and all creation.

To be chosen to walk the path to Light is not a decision made by some religious leader, a government agency or politician. It is a personal choice made by a mind and heart made free of religious guilt and idols of modern materialism. It is a decision made between you and the Creator.

Now is the Time
Go to a quite place on the mountain, river, or in the forest - The church of the Great Spirit. Spend three days fasting and praying. Strip your mind and body of all worldly things. Listen to nature, listen to your inner self. Purify yourself and talk to the Creator. Give thanks for all the blessing of life and all creation. Give yourself completely to this pilgrimage. Maybe, just maybe the Creator will speak to you, show you a vision, and lead you closer to the Light.

The time will come soon when you will be needed. Manataka, the Place of Peace will be one of the Great Gathering places of those who seek the Light of the Rainbow. There, we will learn to walk the path and receive joyful the blessings of the Great Spirits and Creator. We will feel joy and peace of a world without rancor and division. One with each other, one with creation and one with the Creator. Ah Hoa!

Source:
www.manataka.org/page174.html

 

[Lolinaa]

Jon: what you wrote is so well put. That is exactly my thought too. I am glad to read people like you on this forum.

 

[Jon]

Beyond Good and Evil, by Friedrich Nietzsche

"251. It must be taken into the bargain, if various clouds and disturbances—in short, slight attacks of stupidity—pass over the spirit of a people that suffers and WANTS to suffer from national nervous fever and political ambition: for instance, among present-day Germans there is alternately the anti-French folly, the anti-Semitic folly, the anti-Polish folly, the Christian-romantic folly, the Wagnerian folly, the Teutonic folly, the Prussian folly (just look at those poor historians, the Sybels and Treitschkes, and their closely bandaged heads), and whatever else these little obscurations of the German spirit and conscience may be called. May it be forgiven me that I, too, when on a short daring sojourn on very infected ground, did not remain wholly exempt from the disease, but like every one else, began to entertain thoughts about matters which did not concern me—the first symptom of political infection.

About the Jews, for instance, listen to the following:—I have never yet met a German who was favourably inclined to the Jews; and however decided the repudiation of actual anti-Semitism may be on the part of all prudent and political men, this prudence and policy is not perhaps directed against the nature of the sentiment itself, but only against its dangerous excess, and especially against the distasteful and infamous expression of this excess of sentiment;—on this point we must not deceive ourselves. That Germany has amply SUFFICIENT Jews, that the German stomach, the German blood, has difficulty (and will long have difficulty) in disposing only of this quantity of "Jew"—as the Italian, the Frenchman, and the Englishman have done by means of a stronger digestion:—that is the unmistakable declaration and language of a general instinct, to which one must listen and according to which one must act. "Let no more Jews come in! And shut the doors, especially towards the East (also towards Austria)!"—thus commands the instinct of a people whose nature is still feeble and uncertain, so that it could be easily wiped out, easily extinguished, by a stronger race. The Jews, however, are beyond all doubt the strongest, toughest, and purest race at present living in Europe, they know how to succeed even under the worst conditions (in fact better than under favourable ones), by means of virtues of some sort, which one would like nowadays to label as vices—owing above all to a resolute faith which does not need to be ashamed before "modern ideas", they alter only, WHEN they do alter, in the same way that the Russian Empire makes its conquest—as an empire that has plenty of time and is not of yesterday—namely, according to the principle, "as slowly as possible"! A thinker who has the future of Europe at heart, will, in all his perspectives concerning the future, calculate upon the Jews, as he will calculate upon the Russians, as above all the surest and likeliest factors in the great play and battle of forces. That which is at present called a "nation" in Europe, and is really rather a RES FACTA than NATA [tut] (indeed, sometimes confusingly similar to a RES FICTA ET PICTA), is in every case something evolving, young, easily displaced, and not yet a race, much less such a race AERE PERENNUS, as the Jews are such "nations" should most carefully avoid all hot-headed rivalry and hostility! It is certain that the Jews, if they desired—or if they were driven to it, as the anti-Semites seem to wish—COULD now have the ascendancy, nay, literally the supremacy, over Europe, that they are NOT working and planning for that end is equally certain. Meanwhile, they rather wish and desire, even somewhat importunely, to be insorbed and absorbed by Europe, they long to be finally settled, authorized, and respected somewhere, and wish to put an end to the nomadic life, to the "wandering Jew",—and one should certainly take account of this impulse and tendency, and MAKE ADVANCES to it (it possibly betokens a mitigation of the Jewish instincts) for which purpose it would perhaps be useful and fair to banish the anti-Semitic bawlers out of the country. One should make advances with all prudence, and with selection, pretty much as the English nobility do It stands to reason that the more powerful and strongly marked types of new Germanism could enter into relation with the Jews with the least hesitation, for instance, the nobleman officer from the Prussian border it would be interesting in many ways to see whether the genius for money and patience (and especially some intellect and intellectuality—sadly lacking in the place referred to) could not in addition be annexed and trained to the hereditary art of commanding and obeying—for both of which the country in question has now a classic reputation But here it is expedient to break off my festal discourse and my sprightly Teutonomania for I have already reached my SERIOUS TOPIC, the "European problem," as I understand it, the rearing of a new ruling caste for Europe."

Mah man @Amazoniac pullin out the Nietzsche on us! I never knew he had such a change of heart! Very interesting, especially when you consider his ideals are always flagrantly quoted by elitists lol. Thanks for that!

@Jon I've been reading your posts here and elsewhere with a happy heart. Son, you ARE a Rainbow Warrior! I'm so glad you live and breathe on the planet.
Hugs,
Michelle

Manataka American Indian Council
Second Message of Manataka

(Excerpts from "Standing Bear Speaks")

What is it that can be said that you have not been told already?

Have you not been told to love one another? Were you told to have no other gods except the Creator and honor your father and mother? Were you told to keep Mother Earth and all things on her sacred?

Our ancient prophesies say a time will come when the blue sky and waters turn black and green things turn brown and die. Animals and fish will disappear and birds will drop from the sky. This devastation will come as a result of man's greed and disrespect for Mother Earth.

A new universe is now flying through the cosmos about to enter the earth's heavens. We can barely see its enormous beak of the Aquarian bird as the stars and planets move to align themselves to the Awakening. The time is not far off when great cataclysmic changes will begin to occur on Earth. Only a few will withstand these extreme alterations and there will be mass unconsciousness. The polarity of man's universe will change. Great institutions, political divisions and economic systems will crumble, chaos will reign for a time.

Among the few who possess inner strength to resist the mass unconsciousness will rise a new neo-indigenous people. Prophesies foretell of a people who will rise from earth's ashes like the thunderbird symbolizing rebirth. They will bring balance and harmony back to Mother Earth. The first of these beings will come as teachers and storytellers to remind us of ancient truths of the star people and beyond. They will be pathfinders leading the way to a new universe, a new reality.

Great leaders spiritual leaders and warriors of many nations will be born and they will cleanse the earth for rebirth. Next will come the Planters sowing seeds of truth, justice and freedom. The Storytellers, Warriors and Planters will live in the way of the Great Spirit and will teach ways to keep Mother of the Ground sacred forevermore.

They will be called Rainbow Warriors for they will gather the four sacred directions, all distinctly separate but forever connected in the Circle of Life. They will bring together the four races of man to live in peace. The four sacred directions and the four races of man are symbolized by the magnificence and glory of the rainbow. The neo-indigenous people of the Rainbow will give praise for the blessings of the Creator's loving grace.

Manataka is home of the Rainbow Woman who sleeps deep within the sacred mountain in the Place of Peace. During the Awakening, she will emerge once more to give rebirth to this new tribe of people who will sing and dance praises to the Great Spirit - Creator under the rainbow. Warriors of the Rainbow will be pathfinders of the principals the people will follow to achieve unity, understanding and love.

The Awakening will bring forth the Rainbow Woman who will show the Warriors the path to the Crystal Cave. The messages of the ancients will be decoded using the seven keys and revealed to the Warriors by the Creator. And each one will be gifted with powers to commune on many planes of existence.

The sacred Circle of Life turns slowly but inevitably back to the place where it began. Thus, we say 'all things that were, will be again. On earth this is true, but this statement is not entirely correct - depending on ones perspective.

As each age passes, it cannot be reclaimed. We cannot go back in time. If we were to look from above at the Circle of Life it would appear as a gigantic spiral. Each age, or revolution of the Circle moves the next Circle to a plane in perfect concentric alignment with the last, but on higher level in the spiral. Those souls who walk the path to higher awareness, consciousness and spirituality move with the spiral to the next plane. Those who do not, do not.

Now is the time we begin to prepare ourselves to become inheritors of Mother Earth, to become Warriors of the Rainbow - for the sake of our children's children and all humanity. The road of the future is not red. It is a rainbow leading to the Creators grace by way of prayer, good works, faith and keeping the ancient traditions.

We must first unshackle ourselves from materialism and organized religious dogma and personal prejudice. There is nothing more important than becoming free in mind, body and soul from modern confusion in order to reach a higher plane of spirituality. Our very survival depends on it. To see the Light of the Rainbow we must quite our minds and feel inner peace and strength that flows as a river, one with nature and all creation.

To be chosen to walk the path to Light is not a decision made by some religious leader, a government agency or politician. It is a personal choice made by a mind and heart made free of religious guilt and idols of modern materialism. It is a decision made between you and the Creator.

Now is the Time
Go to a quite place on the mountain, river, or in the forest - The church of the Great Spirit. Spend three days fasting and praying. Strip your mind and body of all worldly things. Listen to nature, listen to your inner self. Purify yourself and talk to the Creator. Give thanks for all the blessing of life and all creation. Give yourself completely to this pilgrimage. Maybe, just maybe the Creator will speak to you, show you a vision, and lead you closer to the Light.

The time will come soon when you will be needed. Manataka, the Place of Peace will be one of the Great Gathering places of those who seek the Light of the Rainbow. There, we will learn to walk the path and receive joyful the blessings of the Great Spirits and Creator. We will feel joy and peace of a world without rancor and division. One with each other, one with creation and one with the Creator. Ah Hoa!

Source:
www.manataka.org/page174.html

@zewe Michelle, I'm glad we can connect :) thank you for the awesome compliment, too kind. Sadly, I have had to address my own underlying prejudice in the past and it was there because of bigotry in the older generations of my family, and also my insecurity I realized. Doing what I suggested (to get to know people from groups you scoff at) was the cure. The irony of it all is my heritage is one of a very mixed racial background, but as it has become very apparent, insecurities are rooted very deep sometimes.

I am supposedly 1/8 Apache according to my late grandparents lol but who knows if that's true!

Jon: what you wrote is so well put. That is exactly my thought too. I am glad to read people like you on this forum.

Thank you @Lolinaa :) I feel we here get a little too sciencey and forget that the psyche is the biggest epigenetic factor of them all. If we focused on our minds alittle more, we all would probably be healthier.

 

[Animalinstinct]

This just sounds like a case of insecurity to me.

I understand all the nuances, and possible scientific correlations with racism...but honestly in my experience, rasicm boils down to the fear of inadequacies being exposed by someone who is possibly superior.

Hmmm...no. I would have no issue whatsoever concede inferiority to someone. And on occasion I do, but hostility is usually not what I feel. I have no problem to admire a superior person, and while it may even come with some negative emmotions attached, like envy, I’m perfectly capable of admiting it openly.

Your theory is just a passive agreesive method of ridiculing racism. Nothing sensible about it, it’s just an attempt at an insult. Nothing wrong with that, you’re free to insult anyone you like. But let’s not pretend it’s a real hypothesis, because as a hypothesis it’s absurd inside out. The notion that blacks are subject of racial animosity because white men are insecure about their penises.... haha, cute. But no.

More often than not racial animosity is threat-based. I mean Jesus - the history and the contemporary experience shows there are pretty good reasons for it.

And by the way, it’s very demagogical to constantly attach the concept of superiority/inferiority to racism. That’s another popular neomarxist method of stigmatizing racism. I don’t feel superior to people I dislike on racial basis. Not anymore than the ocassional feeling of superiority I may feel among my own kin. Superiority has nothing to do with it.

 

[zewe]

And by the way, it’s very demagogical to constantly attach the concept of superiority/inferiority to racism. That’s another popular neomarxist method of stigmatizing racism. I don’t feel superior to people I dislike on racial basis. Not anymore than the ocassional feeling of superiority I may feel among my own kin. Superiority has nothing to do with it.

 

[Jon]

Hmmm...no. I would have no issue whatsoever concede inferiority to someone. And on occasion I do, but hostility is usually not what I feel. I have no problem to admire a superior person, and while it may even come with some negative emmotions attached, like envy, I’m perfectly capable of admiting it openly.

Your theory is just a passive agreesive method of ridiculing racism. Nothing sensible about it, it’s just an attempt at an insult. Nothing wrong with that, you’re free to insult anyone you like. But let’s not pretend it’s a real hypothesis, because as a hypothesis it’s absurd inside out. The notion that blacks are subject of racial animosity because white men are insecure about their penises.... haha, cute. But no.

More often than not racial animosity is threat-based. I mean Jesus - the history and the contemporary experience shows there are pretty good reasons for it.

And by the way, it’s very demagogical to constantly attach the concept of superiority/inferiority to racism. That’s another popular neomarxist method of stigmatizing racism. I don’t feel superior to people I dislike on racial basis. Not anymore than the ocassional feeling of superiority I may feel among my own kin. Superiority has nothing to do with it.

What you're calling an insult is an observation I stated you decided to perceive as a remark on your own prerogatives. Did I say anything about black or white specifically? Did I say anything about penis envy? Haha why would you even bring that up? I spoke on a very topical level. I included bigotry not JUST prejudice which would include people not just of different color or culture but people of idffering sexual preference or any other group identifier.

You're an intelligent person, im not trying to defame that or take that away from you, but you must see your lashing out as you just did, calling my hypothesis absurd, is in it of itself ad hominem. You can't prove rasicm is inherent, just like you can't prove God exists or doesn't. Being overly defensive of your opinions doesn't suit open forum discussion, especially when you yourself welcomed that by asking the question you did. I suggest you not be so defensive if you actually want a discussion rather than an argument.

 

[Amazoniac]

Hmmm...no. I would have no issue whatsoever concede inferiority to someone. And on occasion I do, but hostility is usually not what I feel. I have no problem to admire a superior person, and while it may even come with some negative emmotions attached, like envy, I’m perfectly capable of admiting it openly.

Your theory is just a passive agreesive method of ridiculing racism. Nothing sensible about it, it’s just an attempt at an insult. Nothing wrong with that, you’re free to insult anyone you like. But let’s not pretend it’s a real hypothesis, because as a hypothesis it’s absurd inside out. The notion that blacks are subject of racial animosity because white men are insecure about their penises.... haha, cute. But no.

More often than not racial animosity is threat-based. I mean Jesus - the history and the contemporary experience shows there are pretty good reasons for it.

And by the way, it’s very demagogical to constantly attach the concept of superiority/inferiority to racism. That’s another popular neomarxist method of stigmatizing racism. I don’t feel superior to people I dislike on racial basis. Not anymore than the ocassional feeling of superiority I may feel among my own kin. Superiority has nothing to do with it.

I have the impression that your racialism is justifiable. If you live in a place where a certain race has been marginalized and experience more violence, it's safer for you to just assume that your risk is higher around them than to go challenge your assumptions.

 

[Animalinstinct]

What you're calling an insult is an observation I stated you decided to perceive as a remark on your own prerogatives. Did I say anything about black or white specifically? Did I say anything about penis envy? Haha why would you even bring that up? I spoke on a very topical level. I included bigotry not JUST prejudice which would include people not just of different color or culture but people of idffering sexual preference or any other group identifier.

You're an intelligent person, im not trying to defame that or take that away from you, but you must see your lashing out as you just did, calling my hypothesis absurd, is in it of itself ad hominem. You can't prove rasicm is inherent, just like you can't prove God exists or doesn't. Being overly defensive of your opinions doesn't suit open forum discussion, especially when you yourself welcomed that by asking the question you did. I suggest you not be so defensive if you actually want a discussion rather than an argument.

The penis envy was just an exaggerated example. Actually on second thought there is some legitimacy to your theory. Obviously I can see people of a race that is typically thought of as inferior harboring racist feeling towards the race the thinks of itself as superior. I suppose this alone is the main source of racial animosity that blacks feel towards whites in the US. But I think this rarely applies to the mainstream white racism.

Not really trying to be defensive, just arguing. I do appreciate your response. Actually there were some fantastic replies in this thread, several even from the other side of the isle. Seriously a pleasure to read some of the polemics going on. It just needs an open mind and be able to take one step beyond the taboo. I just don't think the traditional way of dimissing racism as stupid or insecure people's thing adds that much.

 

[Animalinstinct]

I have the impression that your racialism is justifiable. If you live in a place where a certain race has been marginalized and experience more violence, it's safer for you to just assume that your risk is higher around them than to go challenge your assumptions.

I had to look up racialism. Hell that's what i'm talking about. Although I don't think the experience has to be as immediate as you describe. Why not just observe experiences of others (Sweden, Belgium, US) to come to that conclusion.

 

[Amazoniac]

I had to look up racialism. Hell that's what i'm talking about. Although I don't think the experience has to be as immediate as you describe. Why not just observe experiences of others (Sweden, Belgium, US) to come to that conclusion.

But all crimes are justifiable if you think of it.

Living in a 99% caucasian country, I often catch myself feeling animosity towards the occasional person of color I see in the street.

A marginalization can start after a certain foreign group was not able to fit in for whatever reasons in a society (already too crowd, lack of resources, etc); their condition will then deteriorate and it gets progressively worse. But your igmorant behavior is worse, because there wasn't any existing marginalization, it's just someone being pushed aside for being different, so you're creating it yourself. This might decorate you as a master racialist. You can't use your primitive instincts as justification for the same reason that they're not a satifactory explanation for twisting someone's nipples for saying 'no' to your invitation.

 

[zewe]

@Jon and @Animalinstinct
Guys, you got it all wrong about penis envy.....you just can't make this stuff up: