Bacteria Can Hydrogenate PUFA Into SFA

[SolidSteele]

Isn't fat absorbed in the small intestines? As such wouldn't the only fats that would be getting saturated the fats that have already made it past the main sites of digestion?

 

[HDD]

Why not just consume the bacteriophages then?

"Proprietary Probiotic Blend: 15 Billion CFU† Lactobacillus acidophilus La-14; Bifidobacterium lactis Bl-04; L. paracasei Lpc-37; L. rhamnosus Lr-32; B. bifidum/lactis Bb-02; B. longumBl-05"

I'm not hatin. I stay eating fat free goat yogurt, kimchi, kombucha, fermented taro, coconut kefir, etc.

.

I don't think Peat recommended this for populating the gut with "good" bacteria but for the "phage" therapy.

The part that makes the Florassist product an intestinal disinfectant.

TetraPhage Blend 15 mg LH01 - Myoviridae; LL5 - Siphorviridae; T4D - Myoviridae; LL12 - Myoviridae.

 

[Jenn]

Peat is recommending the benefit of the phages, NOT promoting the probiotics. :)

TetraPhage Blend

15 mg

LH01 - Myoviridae; LL5 - Siphorviridae; T4D - Myoviridae; LL12 - Myoviridae

Two different things....Need to be careful about the words we use, makes it confusing.

 

[BigYellowLemon]

Great thread very thought provoking and novel.

Whales do the same thing, they have gut bacteria that hydrogenate the massive amounts of DHA they eat.

 

[Drareg]

Great thread very thought provoking and novel.

Whales do the same thing, they have gut bacteria that hydrogenate the massive amounts of DHA they eat.

Yes this is correct,impressive adaption.
Perhaps we could eat whale intestine or maybe it creeps over into whale meat,whale meat as we know is popular in some regions,in Japan they do eat whale intestine.

 

[Rad]

I've seen this blend in a lot of phage products. Been around a while.

I thought phages were highly specific so which ones does this tackle. The life extension article says they did a test with one particular type of ecoli so I'm assuming something in the blend does that. What on earth do the others tackle? Can't find any obvious information and think that whether these will be efficacious would rely on your having the exact bacteria that these tackle. Seems like a shot in the dark.

 

[HDD]

I've seen this blend in a lot of phage products. Been around a while.

I thought phages were highly specific so which ones does this tackle. The life extension article says they did a test with one particular type of ecoli so I'm assuming something in the blend does that. What on earth do the others tackle? Can't find any obvious information and think that whether these will be efficacious would rely on your having the exact bacteria that these tackle. Seems like a shot in the dark.

Further down in the article-

Phage therapy has been used for a wide variety of infections involving numerous pathogens. Therapies have included infections of the gastrointestinal tract, skin, head and neck, bone, chest, and abdomen—and have involved an array of pathogens such as Staphylococcus, Streptococcus, E. coli, Salmonella, and Pseudomonas. Success rates range up to 80%-95% for phage therapy with either no, or only mild reversible, side effects.5,42,43

 

[A.R]

Would phages be more useful than antibiotics to get rid of infections?

 

[Rad]

Further down in the article-

Phage therapy has been used for a wide variety of infections involving numerous pathogens. Therapies have included infections of the gastrointestinal tract, skin, head and neck, bone, chest, and abdomen—and have involved an array of pathogens such as Staphylococcus, Streptococcus, E. coli, Salmonella, and Pseudomonas. Success rates range up to 80%-95% for phage therapy with either no, or only mild reversible, side effects.5,42,43

Hi HDD, But they are referencing papers, not their product. Couldn't find first one on a quick glance. Second was a literature review from '98 so not this blend and the third was a 9 phage blend conducted on people in Bangladesh so not this blend.

 

[HDD]

Hi HDD, But they are referencing papers, not their product. Couldn't find first one on a quick glance. Second was a literature review from '98 so not this blend and the third was a 9 phage blend conducted on people in Bangladesh so not this blend.

My guess would be that even though the product shows data regarding e.coli specifically, it could potentially be effective against other pathogens. It would be a good question for Ray Peat.

I found this article -
Bacteriophage Therapy

In this article, they write about a study treating children with a specific bacteriophage but found it also reduced diarrheal adiseases of unknown origin. (Snapshot from article attached above)

 

[Rad]

I overdid it typing on here earlier so I'll keep it short.

Yes, the section after the bit you posted is interesting, though the rest of the article has references to the real effectiveness lying in testing and administering of specific phages.

For example,

"In the majority of other studies, the effectiveness of phage therapy was not questioned and controls were used only to compare the effectiveness of new or modified phage preparations to that of prior phage preparations. For example, Zhukov-Verezhnikov et al. (77) compared the effectiveness of “adapted” bacteriophages (i.e., phages selected against bacterial strains isolated from individual patients) to that of commercially available phage preparations. The authors used phage preparations to treat 60 patients having suppurative surgical infections. Thirty patients were treated with phages specifically adapted to strains isolated from each patient, and an equal number of patients were treated with commercially available phage preparations targeted against staphylococci, streptococci, enteropathogenic E. coli, and Proteus. The adapted bacteriophages were reported to be five- to sixfold more effective in curing suppurative surgical infections than were the commercially available preparations, presumably because of their improved specificity."

I know I looked into all this years ago, before I had a Ubiome report and discovered nothing obviously dodgy hanging around. It seemed at the time like a shot in the dark and still does. Not phage therapy, just the use of these commercially available preparations.

I should stop now but I'll come back and see what happens in the thread some other time. I have to say, it's very nice to have these kind of discussions with people. It's novel for me to communicate with people as my illness has prevented it so thanks for the opportunity.

 

[kaybb]

Would phages be more useful than antibiotics to get rid of infections?

I have this same question ? Since starting Peat, I fight colds and sore throats a lot. Sugar (OJ, ice cream, added to coffee) seems to exacerbate this chronic feeling of infection on the brink. I've taken a round of antibiotics 2x this year. Maybe phages would be worth trying

 

[DaveFoster]

Perhaps we could eat whale intestine

 

[Waynish]

I wonder how this relates with eating speed... Maybe people can reduce damage a lot by eating PUFAs in small doses - which get sorted by their gut flora. While others, who eat a high-dose PUFA meal (or eat really fast) lack protection from 90% of their meal...
This relates to the ancient recommendations of TCM quite well.

 

[paymanz]

It doesn't matter much because you absorb PUFAs in your small intestinal..

 

[Waynish]

I found this one: Amazon.com: Life Extension FLORASSIST® GI with Phage Technology, 30 liquid vegetarian capsules. Pack of 1 bottle: Health & Personal Care
Have you found/tried any others?

 

[Such_Saturation]

First Peat meme of 2017

 

[Dan W]

Isnt this the same as OMX probiotics?

I don't think so. At least from my casual searching OMX looks like more standard probiotics.

I found this one: Amazon.com: Life Extension FLORASSIST® GI with Phage Technology, 30 liquid vegetarian capsules. Pack of 1 bottle: Health & Personal Care
Have you found/tried any others?

I'm compiling notes on the different brands here. So far it seems like Nutrivee Advanced Prebiotic might be a better option (less expensive, no probiotics, fewer excipients, same phages):
Amazon.com: Nutrivee Advanced Prebiotic - Supports Beneficial Bacteria - Works Within Hours - 60 ct.: Health & Personal Care

Phage therapy has been used for a wide variety of infections involving numerous pathogens. Therapies have included infections of the gastrointestinal tract, skin, head and neck, bone, chest, and abdomen—and have involved an array of pathogens such as Staphylococcus, Streptococcus, E. coli, Salmonella, and Pseudomonas. Success rates range up to 80%-95% for phage therapy with either no, or only mild reversible, side effects.5,42,43

I thought phages were highly specific so which ones does this tackle. The life extension article says they did a test with one particular type of ecoli so I'm assuming something in the blend does that. What on earth do the others tackle? Can't find any obvious information and think that whether these will be efficacious would rely on your having the exact bacteria that these tackle. Seems like a shot in the dark.

I've been looking for this info too. I'm starting to think all of the current products are based around the same 4-phage blend from Deerland Enzymes that supposedly targets "E.coli K‐12, E.coli B, 16 ETEC."

First Peat meme of 2017

I was just thinking that: I already jumped on methylene blue and mushrooms, so why not phages. Peat could casually mention being interested in chainsaw juggling and I'd probably jump on it.

 

[Mufasa]

Trying this brand at the moment:
Arthur Andrew Medical, Floraphage, 90 Capsules

 

[BigYellowLemon]

Ray wrote about bacteria saturating PUFA with tocopherols, aka vitamin E, in his Vitamin E article.

"
One possibly crucial protective effect of vitamin E against the polyunsaturated fatty acids that hasn't been explored is the direct destruction of linolenic and linoleic acid. It is known that bacterial vitamin E is involved in the saturation of unsaturated fatty acids, and it is also known that intestinal bacteria turn linoleic and linolenic acids into the fully saturated stearic acid.

"No metabolic function is known for alpha-tocopherolquinol or its quinone other than as a cofactor in the biohydrogenation of unsaturated fatty acids that can be carried out by only a few organisms."

P.E. Hughes and S.B. Tove, 1982.

“Linoleic acid was significantly decreased (P < 0.001) and there was a significant rise (P < 0.05) in its hydrogenation product, stearic acid. Linolenic acid was also significantly decreased. . . .” “The study provides evidence that bacteria from the human colon can hydrogenate C18 essential polyunsaturated fatty acids.”

F.A. Howard & C. Henderson, 1999

"

From his Vitamin E article.