Help Me Reduce My Serotonin Levels

[Constatine]

can you take asprin and famotide together To lower sereotonin

I don't think you should take an antiacid just to lower serotonin. No idea if they would word well together or not.

 

[Joe C]

Old thread, but I'm going to add this here: in my opinion trying to micromanage a single chemical without looking at the bigger picture will not bring about a resolution to a health problem - maybe a temporary fix at best. Sometimes that temporary fix is necessary to give us some breathing space so we can understand the bigger picture better - but we should always be looking at the bigger picture.

When I read the OP, I thought of serotonin - but I also thought of histamine...and particularly CRH. which also causes mast cell de-granulation as well as cortisol release and anxiety directly. Broadly speaking CRH is where energy becomes matter, where our hypothalamus senses the environment and releases hormones to deal with it. I spent some time chasing serotonin until I realised it was just a symptom of broader nervous system dysregulation - sympathetic activation - just as histamine and crh excesses, with the anxiety, ocd, tachycardia, breathing difficulty that goes with it etc. However uncomfortable these symptoms are, they are signals that something deeper needs to change. They represent the body's best efforts to return to homeostasis - they are not mistakes. Same thing with genetics. There is no bad mutation - every single mutation was an adaption at some point in the eons of history that allowed us to survive into the present day. Our job is to become aware of them and to adjust our environment to be more in line with our genetic heritage. Genetics give us our range - but our environment determines where we fall on that range. And if we're indoors, bathed in blue light, sun deprived, disconnected from the earth eating crappy diets, stressed out by work, relationships and past trauma - our gene expression will respond in an adaptive way. Insomnia, for example is horrible and debilitating - but it happens because our body perceives such a threat that it would be more dangerous to fall asleep.

Personally, I use the herbs and the supplements to give me some breathing space. But I've found relief in going deeper - in looking at emotions, our cultural biases, society, and my response to all this. To do this I've used emdr, TRE exercises, specific stretches and yoga as well as a good osteopath, who found huge tension in my back at the point where many of the sympathetic nerves pass. Some people find somatic experiencing good as well. I still have a long way to go, but I would encourage anyone struggling with chronic issues to not ignore this aspect of the process.

 

[member 6316]

When I read the OP, I thought of serotonin - but I also thought of histamine...and particularly CRH. which also causes mast cell de-granulation as well as cortisol release and anxiety directly. Broadly speaking CRH is where energy becomes matter, where our hypothalamus senses the environment and releases hormones to deal with it. I spent some time chasing serotonin until I realised it was just a symptom of broader nervous system dysregulation - sympathetic activation - just as histamine and crh excesses, with the anxiety, ocd, tachycardia, breathing difficulty th/QUOTE]

I was also chasing high serotonin for a while (im over it now), before that I think I thought I had some GABA-dysfunction causing my anxiety and before that I thought I had some mutation which caused me to have low lvls of progesterone (silly when I think about it now). I tried a lot of things and funny you mention CRH becuase that is were im at now that everything has lead me to. CRH and specifically CRHR1 receptor activation. Im trying to learn about the CRH system and how it works etc.
I believe CRH-CRHR1 system is the sole cause for anxiety/fear and the likes. CRH causes serotonin release if I remember right ,it also activates 5ht3 receptor (causing dizziness).

 

[Joe C]

...before that I think I thought I had some GABA-dysfunction causing my anxiety and before that I thought I had some mutation which caused me to have low lvls of progesterone (silly when I think about it now).

No concept we think of is silly - it's just a representation of our level of awareness and understanding at that time, and a necessary part of the journey.

I tried a lot of things and funny you mention CRH becuase that is were im at now that everything has lead me to. CRH and specifically CRHR1 receptor activation. Im trying to learn about the CRH system and how it works etc

CRH is definitely central. The job of the hypothalamus is to sense the internal and external environment, and then release hormones / neuropeptides accordingly to maintain homeostatis. There could well be receptor changes - especially after chronic stresses or drug use - but it's also worth considering the inputs. If the signals going in are altered, then our CRH will be altered, as well as the whole HPA axis: acth, cortisol, adrenaline - as well as histamine and glutamate. This shift towards sympathetic activation also causes tryptophan to go down the kynurenine pathway, increasing quinolinic acid - which is also linked with anxiety, depression and neurodegeneration.

Emotional trauma raises CRH, so that's why I mentioned EMDR. The way we look at trauma, perfectionism, self-worth and social standing etc is key. Inflammation also raises CRH through IL-6. In my case, I think oxalates are raising CRH levels through IL-6 release - and they also cause an IL-1 response. Other things that elevate CRH include hypoxia, chronic cold exposure, hypothyroidism, orexin, and basically anything that raises cortisol - including blood sugar problems / inflammation. As well as histamine, estrogen, serotonin, glutamate ecc, so this feedback loop is important, because crh raises some of these.

Cortisol is supposed to turn it off - at least in the hypothalamus (but maybe not in the amygdala). If the hypothalamus develops cortisol resistance, as has been proposed in cases of chronically elevated cortisol, then the main CRH off-switch may not be working.

Phosphatidylserine may work by re-sensitising the hypothalamus to cortisol. It has a profound effect on me, having a history of elevated cortisol. Too much, though, can be stimulating and lead to insomnia. Herbs are interesting in interrupting this cycle too. Rhodiola may work by reducing the feedback from the amygdala to the hypothalamus, thereby reducing crh. Schisandra is also included here, and it seems to modify the way in which we view stress. Both of these have been studied for their ability to normalise the HPA axis - and in fact these + Eleuthero are the only herbs that truly fit the adaptogenic label, according to some researchers. As far as I understand, Eleuthero works more at the adrenal level to improve stress response. It also has a strong immunomodulatory effect and has been used to normalise the histamine response. Then there is ashwaganda, which is gabanergic. So it reduced glutamate activity, calms the HPA axis and seems to push things away from HPA and towards sex hormones, and also increases T4 to T3 conversion. It is often paired with schisandra. Rosemary and turmeric also deserve a mention as neuroprotective herbs here - especially against quinolinic acid. Turmeric has been compared to prozac in it's efficacy - it works on so many levels - modulating cortisol, reducing oxidative stress and nitric oxide, regenerating glutathione, reducing inflammation and improving liver health. And finally Ziziphus jujuba - a herb common in TCM modulates the HPA axis, and may help interrupt the histamine feedback. It is sometimes used to tonify the parasympathetic, like reishi and pearl powder - but TCM is a whole other world...

I think when these herbs are combined with psychoemotive work, the results can be amazing. I still have a long way, but I'm going in the right direction.

 

[Peatful]

No concept we think of is silly - it's just a representation of our level of awareness and understanding at that time, and a necessary part of the journey.



CRH is definitely central. The job of the hypothalamus is to sense the internal and external environment, and then release hormones / neuropeptides accordingly to maintain homeostatis. There could well be receptor changes - especially after chronic stresses or drug use - but it's also worth considering the inputs. If the signals going in are altered, then our CRH will be altered, as well as the whole HPA axis: acth, cortisol, adrenaline - as well as histamine and glutamate. This shift towards sympathetic activation also causes tryptophan to go down the kynurenine pathway, increasing quinolinic acid - which is also linked with anxiety, depression and neurodegeneration.

Emotional trauma raises CRH, so that's why I mentioned EMDR. The way we look at trauma, perfectionism, self-worth and social standing etc is key. Inflammation also raises CRH through IL-6. In my case, I think oxalates are raising CRH levels through IL-6 release - and they also cause an IL-1 response. Other things that elevate CRH include hypoxia, chronic cold exposure, hypothyroidism, orexin, and basically anything that raises cortisol - including blood sugar problems / inflammation. As well as histamine, estrogen, serotonin, glutamate ecc, so this feedback loop is important, because crh raises some of these.

Cortisol is supposed to turn it off - at least in the hypothalamus (but maybe not in the amygdala). If the hypothalamus develops cortisol resistance, as has been proposed in cases of chronically elevated cortisol, then the main CRH off-switch may not be working.

Phosphatidylserine may work by re-sensitising the hypothalamus to cortisol. It has a profound effect on me, having a history of elevated cortisol. Too much, though, can be stimulating and lead to insomnia. Herbs are interesting in interrupting this cycle too. Rhodiola may work by reducing the feedback from the amygdala to the hypothalamus, thereby reducing crh. Schisandra is also included here, and it seems to modify the way in which we view stress. Both of these have been studied for their ability to normalise the HPA axis - and in fact these + Eleuthero are the only herbs that truly fit the adaptogenic label, according to some researchers. As far as I understand, Eleuthero works more at the adrenal level to improve stress response. It also has a strong immunomodulatory effect and has been used to normalise the histamine response. Then there is ashwaganda, which is gabanergic. So it reduced glutamate activity, calms the HPA axis and seems to push things away from HPA and towards sex hormones, and also increases T4 to T3 conversion. It is often paired with schisandra. Rosemary and turmeric also deserve a mention as neuroprotective herbs here - especially against quinolinic acid. Turmeric has been compared to prozac in it's efficacy - it works on so many levels - modulating cortisol, reducing oxidative stress and nitric oxide, regenerating glutathione, reducing inflammation and improving liver health. And finally Ziziphus jujuba - a herb common in TCM modulates the HPA axis, and may help interrupt the histamine feedback. It is sometimes used to tonify the parasympathetic, like reishi and pearl powder - but TCM is a whole other world...

I think when these herbs are combined with psychoemotive work, the results can be amazing. I still have a long way, but I'm going in the right direction.

Very informative.
Thank you @Joe C

 

[Hgreen56]

The amino acid Tryptohan eventually turns into serotonin. Tryptophan will not be taken into the brain if BCAA's are present (due to competition), so giant amounts of BCAA can deplete tryptophan and decrease serotonin by around 90% within 4 hours. You would have to stop exercising, because exercise allows the body to take up BCAA's into the muscle which would allow Tryptophan to be taken into the brain easily. This is explained here in this video by Dr Rhonda Patrick, a bio chemist.

Go to exactly 13 minutes 44 seconds and start listening.

so the high doses Tryptohan in whey protein powder doesnt convert to serotonin because whey also has loads of bcaa in it?

 

[Hans]

so the high doses Tryptohan in whey protein powder doesnt convert to serotonin because whey also has loads of bcaa in it?

It does. It's Fernstrom ratio is high and has been shown to boost brain serotonin.
From this paper (https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1179/1476830511Y.0000000019):

Hypothalamus 5-HTP is almost double on whey compared to casein.

 

[GorillaHead]

It does. It's Fernstrom ratio is high and has been shown to boost brain serotonin.
From this paper (https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1179/1476830511Y.0000000019):

Hypothalamus 5-HTP is almost double on whey compared to casein.

Reducing brain serotonin doesn't necessarily seem like the solution here. I idea would be reducing the serotonin pool and that is in the gut. Because while you might find a way to reduce serotonin in the brain. serotonin can go to other organs and its often active with bad side effects.

 

[Hans]

Reducing brain serotonin doesn't necessarily seem like the solution here. I idea would be reducing the serotonin pool and that is in the gut. Because while you might find a way to reduce serotonin in the brain. serotonin can go to other organs and its often active with bad side effects.

Yes ofc, improving overall health (reducing stress, improving sleep, optimizing the gut, ensuring thyroid hormones are optimal, etc.) is a much better approach.

 

[GorillaHead]

Yes ofc, improving overall health (reducing stress, improving sleep, optimizing the gut, ensuring thyroid hormones are optimal, etc.) is a much better approach.

@Hans
You happen to know of a way to lower the serotonin pool besides charcoal and high levels of BCAA.

From my understanding bacteria control the production of it. So how do we control the bacteria in our favor

 

[GorillaHead]

Whole grain can contribute to health by changing intestinal serotonin production

Adults consuming whole grain rye have lower plasma serotonin levels than people eating low-fiber wheat bread, according to a recent study.

www.sciencedaily.com

 

[Hans]

@Hans
You happen to know of a way to lower the serotonin pool besides charcoal and high levels of BCAA.

From my understanding bacteria control the production of it. So how do we control the bacteria in our favor

I don't think you have to focus specifically on certain bacteria, but just improve gut health in general. For me, black cumin, niacinamide and inosine have been very helpful for re-energizing the gut.

 

[vanessad]

Everything that supports a high metabolic rate will encourage the breakdown of serotonin.

>95% of the serotonin in your body comes from bacteria in your digestive tract; the most effective way to reduce serotonin dramatically would be activated charcoal (1 TBSP) or antibiotics (50-100 mg of tetracycline taken as needed.)

How long would you suggest taking the charcoal? Thx. I had no idea it stemmed from the gut! Thx

 

[DaveFoster]

How long would you suggest taking the charcoal? Thx. I had no idea it stemmed from the gut! Thx

Once a week and then eating two carrots before bed. It’s helpful to take the charcoal and then antibiotics once it clears from your digestive tract, and then the charcoal again, probably.

 

[tommyg130]

why? I have a mutation which my body produces too much serotonin its not my lifestyle.

What mutation? How did you test for it?

 

[tommyg130]

why? I have a mutation which my body produces too much serotonin its not my lifestyle.

5 years later lol .. but which mutation ? I have mutations for low serotonin. Low overall serotonin, and then the SNP on the right shows I have a desensitized receptor on top of that. Double whammy?