Progesterone Is Androgenic

[brix]

I would say 10mg-15mg daily is physiological dose. But it has to be split into several lower doses. A single dose of 10mg-15mg is not physiological.

when will you be releasing the prog/dhea product?

 

[nbznj]

I'm not really convinced when it comes to the "safer alternative to TRT" part. We have clomiphene that has a trillion of studies, case studies, MDs, all reporting that it works. And it costs nothing. If it doesn't work, this means there is a serious condition underlying leading to being hypogonadal: we have HCG. I reckon estrogen can be an issue in both strategies; we have anastrozole or exemestane to balance it out. If SHBG shoots up on clomiphene, it turns out that fructose lowers it. So that is very compatible with a Peat diet.

I'd leave T injections to the hardkkore™ weightlifters.

 

[haidut]

when will you be releasing the prog/dhea product?

Most likely tomorrow. It is already bottled.

 

[cyclops]

Most likely tomorrow. It is already bottled.

Is there any benefit to having these substances mixed in the same bottle together? I ask because I know you already have a pregnenolone product and progesterone product. It seems if you added a DHEA product to the lineup, people could then mix themselves and adjust combinations.

 

[Koveras]

That's pretty interesting. I never thought of the cortisol connection. I thought it might have been a natural cycling issue. BTW, I see you use the term "physiological dose" a lot. What does that mean?

I would say 10mg-15mg daily is physiological dose. But it has to be split into several lower doses. A single dose of 10mg-15mg is not physiological.

"Denoting a dose or the effects of such a dose (of a chemical agent that either is or mimics a hormone, neurotransmitter, or other naturally occurring agent) that is within the range of concentrations or potencies that would occur naturally."

 

[Bodhi]

Why not a PROG-PREG-DHEA combo?

 

[haidut]

Is there any benefit to having these substances mixed in the same bottle together? I ask because I know you already have a pregnenolone product and progesterone product. It seems if you added a DHEA product to the lineup, people could then mix themselves and adjust combinations.

Some people do not react well to pregnenolone/DHEA combination and Peat has told quite a few people he uses progesterone/DHEA combination himself. In my experience, the progesterone/DHEA combo is a stronger stress reliever and anti-catabolic than the pregnenolone/DHEA (which seems to be more androgenic/anabolic). Women also seem to prefer a progesterone/DHEA combo to pregnenolone/DHEA one.

 

[haidut]

Why not a PROG-PREG-DHEA combo?

Well, it can be done easily by simply combining Pansterone + progesterone or StressNon with the new supplement. It allows one for more control over ratios of different steroids, and for most people the optimal ratio when all 3 are used together would be different. But if we discover an optimal ratio that works for most than we can probably make the 3-steroid combo a separate product as well.

 

[Braveheart]

Well, it can be done easily by simply combining Pansterone + progesterone or StressNon with the new supplement. It allows one for more control over ratios of different steroids, and for most people the optimal ratio when all 3 are used together would be different. But if we discover an optimal ratio that works for most than we can probably make the 3-steroid combo a separate product as well.

I'm seeing a nice evolution toward a great new product here...thanks to everyones experimentation and feedback....

 

[Owen B]

"Denoting a dose or the effects of such a dose (of a chemical agent that either is or mimics a hormone, neurotransmitter, or other naturally occurring agent) that is within the range of concentrations or potencies that would occur naturally."

Got it. Thanks for the info. I'm taking about 10-12 mgs a day: 4/4/2.

 

[Owen B]

I would not call it perfect but close to optimal. For people in very catabolic state I would probably try higher dose progesterone + a stronger androgen like androsterone. Progesterone + DHT or T would also work if you can get prescription for those androgens.

This I'm interested in but I'm not sure what the biology of this is about.

If a person is "very catabolic" (or even everyday catabolic) why not just take progesterone? Beyond the idea that balance is generally a good idea, what's the advantage to adding in some androsterone, DHT or T?

 

[haidut]

This I'm interested in but I'm not sure what the biology of this is about.

If a person is "very catabolic" (or even everyday catabolic) why not just take progesterone? Beyond the idea that balance is generally a good idea, what's the advantage to adding in some androsterone, DHT or T?

Progesterone should take care of stopping the catabolic effects of cortisol, but it is androgenic chemicals that are "anabolic" - i.e. increase protein synthesis and improve tissue repair. It is explained in more detail in this thread.
The Requirements For An Optimal Anticatabolic / Anabolic Substance

I am not saying everybody needs to take a combination. For some people progesterone alone may be enough.

 

[alywest]

I would love it if idealabs made an option of this progesterone/dhea product in mct oil/tocopherols, the way RP originally intended

*edit to say just tocopherols
**edit to say at a competitive price

 

[Ritchie]

Some people do not react well to pregnenolone/DHEA combination and Peat has told quite a few people he uses progesterone/DHEA combination himself. In my experience, the progesterone/DHEA combo is a stronger stress reliever and anti-catabolic than the pregnenolone/DHEA (which seems to be more androgenic/anabolic). Women also seem to prefer a progesterone/DHEA combo to pregnenolone/DHEA one.

Why not simply release a DHEA product on its own. That way people can use any combination of the three as they see fit. Stressnon, Progestene and a third DHEA? Seems the logical thing to do...

 

[haidut]

Why not simply release a DHEA product on its own. That way people can use any combination of the three as they see fit. Stressnon, Progestene and a third DHEA? Seems the logical thing to do...

DHEA on its own does not seem to have much of an effect. Adding even a little pregnenolone increases the effects dramatically. So, the Pansterone was supposed to be the product that provides DHEA effects...on steroids (pun intended). If you want, read the studies in the original post on Pansterone. It talks about potentiation of steroid effects by adding pregnenolone.

 

[Ritchie]

DHEA on its own does not seem to have much of an effect. Adding even a little pregnenolone increases the effects dramatically. So, the Pansterone was supposed to be the product that provides DHEA effects...on steroids (pun intended). If you want, read the studies in the original post on Pansterone. It talks about potentiation of steroid effects by adding pregnenolone.

Yes but I mean you already have stressnon and progestene. Seems like the obvious thing to do is make a DHEA product and then any combination of all three can be used. At least give the option rather than make an entirely new pre-combined product.. I would certainly buy it because I personally see benefit in varying and changing the combinations here and there and enjoy doing my own research in discovering what works best as I'm sure many others do also. I just don't see why not...

 

[Owen B]

Progesterone should take care of stopping the catabolic effects of cortisol, but it is androgenic chemicals that are "anabolic" - i.e. increase protein synthesis and improve tissue repair. It is explained in more detail in this thread.
The Requirements For An Optimal Anticatabolic / Anabolic Substance

I am not saying everybody needs to take a combination. For some people progesterone alone may be enough.

Got it. I was looking for a way to think about the whole issue in terms of my situation. I perfectly see how a combination like these would be good for me now.

I'm not much of a science guy so it's good to be able to have some talking points when I go to the doctor and try to pry some DHT or T out of him. Your information there was very helpful. Much appreciated. (The Progestene is sitting very well, BTW).

Also, what's your opinion of pharmaceutical DHT and T? Are they reliable? Years back I tried Androgel. I think it's bioidentical from soy.

 

[haidut]

Got it. I was looking for a way to think about the whole issue in terms of my situation. I perfectly see how a combination like these would be good for me now.

I'm not much of a science guy so it's good to be able to have some talking points when I go to the doctor and try to pry some DHT or T out of him. Your information there was very helpful. Much appreciated. (The Progestene is sitting very well, BTW).

Also, what's your opinion of pharmaceutical DHT and T? Are they reliable? Years back I tried Androgel. I think it's bioidentical from soy.

The pharma products are suspicious simply because there is no telling what else is inside them. Some of them contain soy isoflavones to enhance transdermal absorption, but it negates to a great degree the androgenic effects of those steroids. It would be safest from a compounding pharmacy or if you make it yourself.

 

[Owen B]

The pharma products are suspicious simply because there is no telling what else is inside them. Some of them contain soy isoflavones to enhance transdermal absorption, but it negates to a great degree the androgenic effects of those steroids. It would be safest from a compounding pharmacy or if you make it yourself.

Why is it better from a compounding pharmacy? I thought they make the majority of hormones from soy bulk powder. (Which is the same stuff Androgel is made out of).

The average person can make it themselves?

 

[haidut]

Why is it better from a compounding pharmacy? I thought they make the majority of hormones from soy bulk powder. (Which is the same stuff Androgel is made out of).

The average person can make it themselves?

No, they don't make most steroids out of soy. Progesterone is commonly made of yam and in some places extracted from animal organs. It really depends on source of raw material and cost of production. When I said make it themselves, I meant a cream/solution once a steroid has been procured.