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haidut

haidut

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What would be a physiological dose of progesterone to take from noon to evening for support the circadian cortisol rhythm? Thanks

Search the forum please. This question must have come up at least 100 times.
 

Owen B

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Hi Owen, I'd be curious to know how this combo has worked out for you. I'm hyper-sensitive to most supplements, especially hormones, and I'm always looking for success stories that I might be able to mimic.
Ultimately, I didn't have much luck with the DHEA. Eventually, it makes me agitated.

But looking back on it now the 10 mgs of progesterone was too much by itself. It should be taken with something androgenic to balance it.

I'd up my Estroban too to get some D3 in my system. It works well with androgenic hormones and progesterone. See the main D3 (Calcirol) thread.
 

Mossy

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Ultimately, I didn't have much luck with the DHEA. Eventually, it makes me agitated.

But looking back on it now the 10 mgs of progesterone was too much by itself. It should be taken with something androgenic to balance it.

I'd up my Estroban too to get some D3 in my system. It works well with androgenic hormones and progesterone. See the main D3 (Calcirol) thread.
Yeah, that is what DHEA does to me as well.

I did glance at that D3 thread, but will go back to it.

I also did just see your comment on this other progesterone thread, which looks like D3 with progesterone may be a better combo than DHEA.

Thanks for sharing.
 

SOMO

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Low dose progesterone makes it difficult for me to get an erection.

High dose progesterone makes it even more difficult.

I have no issues getting erections immediately before or a few hours after using progesterone.

N=1 though, but I think RP has made it pretty clear that Progesterone is more of a "female" hormone.

It's unfortunate that Progesterone has this effect in me because it has other benefits, specifically neurological benefits and a significant positive mood lift. :(
 

cyclops

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For those of you taking a solo DHEA product (meaning a product that only contains DHEA), what are you using? Is there a product that's widely regarded as the best? Or any product to definitely avoid for that matter?
 
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Low dose progesterone makes it difficult for me to get an erection.

High dose progesterone makes it even more difficult.

I have no issues getting erections immediately before or a few hours after using progesterone.

N=1 though, but I think RP has made it pretty clear that Progesterone is more of a "female" hormone.

It's unfortunate that Progesterone has this effect in me because it has other benefits, specifically neurological benefits and a significant positive mood lift. :(

That's interesting. Progesterone has the opposite effect on me. I get stronger erections and P.E. is much improved. It definitely does reduce libido a bit, but when it comes down to action, it's all good.

Maybe your androgens aren't sufficient to counteract some of the Progesterone effects.
 

encerent

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I think the issue is lowering cortisol too much which is needed for morning wakefulness. After a few hours of wakefulness, cortisol can be abated without causing drowsiness if used in physiological doses. Drowsiness can still occur in higher doses but if done afternoon it feels more like drunkenness and less like sleepiness.

Drowsiness is a good thing most of the time. These days people heavily promote "energy", "alertness", "focus". And to promote these things they increase stress hormones by, for example, fasting/intermittent fasting, keto/paleo diets, and intense exercises.
 
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Instead of adding DHEA I suppose one could take some licorice root with Progesterone so to boost DHEA, lower aldosterone by making cortisol more efficient.
This would be a good muscle builder then.

Liquorice and glycyrrhetinic acid increase DHEA and deoxycorticosterone levels in vivo and in vitro by inhibiting adrenal SULT2A1 activity. - PubMed - NCBI
We suggest that the glycyrrhetinic acid constituent of liquorice increases circulating and thereby, salivary levels of unconjugated deoxycorticosterone and dehydroepiandrosterone by inhibiting their conjugation at source within the adrenal cortex. This effect may contribute to the mineralocorticoid actions of glycyrrhetinic acid and gives substance to claims that liquorice also has androgenic properties.
 

Spartan300

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Hi General, I've seen you mention licorice here before but I'd been led to believe that it was estrogenic?
 
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Evaluation of Estrogenic Activity of Licorice Species in Comparison with Hops Used in Botanicals for Menopausal Symptoms

Comparison between hops from beer and licorice show Liquiritigenin is less estrogenic.

"Liquiritigenin was found to be the principle phytoestrogen of the licorice extracts; however, it exhibited lower estrogenic effects compared to 8-prenylnaringenin in functional assays." ...

"LigF and LigC from licorice were compared with 8-PN and XH from hops in a variety of estrogenic assays. While, LigF selectively binds to ERβ confirming previous reports [25], [41], 8-PN has high affinity for both ER subtypes [12]. LigF has also been reported to selectively activate ERβ in functional assays [25], [58] which shows not only its selective binding towards ERβ, but also an activating role for ERβ dependent pathways. Selective activation of ERβ by estrogenic ligands has been reported to be correlated with down-regulation of ERα activities, including proliferation [59]. Therefore, selective activation of ERβ by LigF might present a safer mode of estrogenic activity of licorice, while hops and its constituents do not possess this preferential ERβ modulatory effect.

In the present study, LigF showed estrogenic activity in alkaline phosphatase induction assay in Ishikawa cells at micro molar concentrations and in a partial agonistic manner, while 8-PN was active in nano molar ranges with an efficacy close to the full agonist, E2. ...

Hops extract exhibited higher estrogenic potency and efficacy in the alkaline phosphatase induction assay and higher activity in the ERE-luciferase induction assay compared to the licorice species. The stronger estrogenic activities of hops could be associated with the presence of 8-PN and its precursors in hops. Moreover, the licorice extract showed partial agonistic behavior, which could be a therapeutic advantage as partial agonists are better tunable agents for their respective receptor signaling pathway [60]. Partial agonists can play the role of antagonists when a full agonist is present and can also work more selectively. These properties make licorice and its active constituents an attractive target for further characterizations of their estrogenic activity.
 
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... follow up:

"When assessing Glycyrrhiza Uralensis for possible bioactives that interact with aromatase, 7 compounds appeared to have good affinity for the aromatase enzyme and thus interacted while four of these compounds appeared to inhibit aromatase by 64.48%, 63.25%, 57.2% (Dihydrolicoisoflavone[189]), and 82.78% (Glyasperin F[190]) at 20ug/mL, with the former two unnamed compounds sharing structural similarity to Glabrene.[191]" (Glabrene is a metabolite of Glabridin)

"Glabridin, despite having affinity for the ERα receptor,[195] appears to act as a receptor antagonist when incubated with estrogen by reducing estrogenic signalling via ERα by 80% at 10uM; establishing Glabridin as a Seletive Estrogen Receptor Modulator (SERM) or the ERα with no antagonism of ERβ.[198]"

"For studies that measure serum estrogens, no significant effects are seen after 2 months of using 3.5g Licorice extract (7.9% Glycyrrhetic Acid)[186] or 100g of Licorice (150mg Glycyrrhetic acid) for 4 weeks.[183]"

"When measuring the amount of SHBG in serum, there does not appear to be a significant reduction or increase in SHBG levels of either gender following 100g Licorice (150mg Glycyrrhetic Acid) for 4 weeks.[183]"

".. A reduction in sulfated DHEA has been noted elsewhere to the degree of 12%, but only appeared to affect men.[183]"

"One study in women given 3.5g Licorice extract (7.9% Glycyrrhetic acid) for 2 months noted an increase of Parathyroid hormone to 20.2% higher than baseline after 2 months of usage (with a nonsignificant increase of 13.3% after one month), which normalized after one month of cessation.[186]"
 
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Liquorice and glycyrrhetinic acid increase DHEA and deoxycorticosterone levels in vivo and in vitro by inhibiting adrenal SULT2A1 activity. - PubMed - NCBI : digital PDF attached
 

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Momado965

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Do those benefits apply to 6 keto progrsterone as well? Also, why do some people get anxiety from pregnenolone?
 
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haidut

haidut

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Do those benefits apply to 6 keto progrsterone as well? Also, why do some people get anxiety from pregnenolone?

As the animal study posted in the 6-keto thread showed, the chemical is not very androgenic. In fact, it seems to have mostly anti-cortisol (and likely anti-estrogen) effects without much else.
 

LeeLemonoil

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https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0048969716326420


Progesterone potentially degrades to potent androgens in surface waters
Don‘t know if this has been posted anywhere. According to that paper, Progrsterone in water (excreted into sewerage I assume / in surface water) can turn into potent androgens among other things.

Xeno-Androgens? Yeay! Ban Progesterone for good that can only mean.
Seems an interesting paper worth reading, some good descriptions on steroid-breakdown and transformations in the environment.
 
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haidut

haidut

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https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0048969716326420


Progesterone potentially degrades to potent androgens in surface waters
Don‘t know if this has been posted anywhere. According to that paper, Progrsterone in water (excreted into sewerage I assume / in surface water) can turn into potent androgens among other things.

Xeno-Androgens? Yeay! Ban Progesterone for good that can only mean.
Seems an interesting paper worth reading, some good descriptions on steroid-breakdown and transformations in the environment.

Thanks. I think we posted this into another thread discussing AAS. Progesterone can indeed convert into boldenone assuming the proper enzymes (or bacteria are present).
 

Cooper

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I would say 10mg-15mg daily is physiological dose. But it has to be split into several lower doses. A single dose of 10mg-15mg is not physiological.
Would 50mg daily injections create an anti- androgenic effect? I need to upregulate my AR's. Can 50mg do that via competing with AR's so they start to upregulate to compensate?

I am not sure if Prog is anti- androgenic or not. There are several studies which you can find stating the opposite, saying that it is anti- androgenic. It is also well known that it causes negative feedback on LH. Maybe it is a dosing issue.
 

Kvothe

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I would say 10mg-15mg daily is physiological dose. But it has to be split into several lower doses. A single dose of 10mg-15mg is not physiological.

When I use it, I use about 30mg in a single dose in the evening, and I have never had any bad/unphysiological reaction. To the contrary, when I use the same amount split into several doses, I don't feel a noticeably positive effect. I think larger, single doses leading to higher serum levels are better at antagonizing estrogen and prolactin. The prolactin antagonism is so potent that it often allows several, high-level, sexual performances per night.
 

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