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I've done blood tests before and after when I used progesterone cream as well as the herb Fadogia Agrestis.
Results were increase in SHBG, total T and free T and reductions in E2 estradiol.
After this experience, I came to the conclusion that natural progesterone is not feminizing as long as it is not overdosed.
What dosages were you taking? ThanksI've done blood tests before and after when I used progesterone cream as well as the herb Fadogia Agrestis.
Results were increase in SHBG, total T and free T and reductions in E2 estradiol.
After this experience, I came to the conclusion that natural progesterone is not feminizing as long as it is not overdosed.
I was taking a standard dosage of Fadogia (whatever it said on the bottle) as well as 10-20mg Progesterone cream per day.
I definitely overdid the progesterone amounts since it tanked my estradiol but other than that I actually had improvements in sexual function, sleep, and mood to a pretty large degree. I was struggling with low free testosterone at the time as you can see.
Here are the labs:
Total Testosterone 6.10 ng/mL ----> 9.898 ng/mL - HIGH
SHBG 58.2 nmol/L - HIGH ----> 74,5 nmol/L - HIGH
Free Testosterone 88 pg/mL - LOW ----> 101 pg/mL
Estradiol (E2) 24.8 pg/mL ----> < 10 pg/mL - LOW
Progesterone before supplementation was 0.19 ng/mL (did not test afterward)
I was taking a standard dosage of Fadogia (whatever it said on the bottle) as well as 10-20mg Progesterone cream per day.
I definitely overdid the progesterone amounts since it tanked my estradiol but other than that I actually had improvements in sexual function, sleep, and mood to a pretty large degree. I was struggling with low free testosterone at the time as you can see.
Here are the labs:
Total Testosterone 6.10 ng/mL ----> 9.898 ng/mL - HIGH
SHBG 58.2 nmol/L - HIGH ----> 74,5 nmol/L - HIGH
Free Testosterone 88 pg/mL - LOW ----> 101 pg/mL
Estradiol (E2) 24.8 pg/mL ----> < 10 pg/mL - LOW
Progesterone before supplementation was 0.19 ng/mL (did not test afterward)
Thanks for posting this. I am always appreciative of this kind of info.
10-20mg of progesterone cream applied topically I assume? A lot of the creams have pretty poor absorption so it's possible you were only getting 5mg or under. I think even progest-e is only about 20% absorption, which is why Ray recommends taking it orally. Do you happen to remember which product you used?
Thanks for the info. I've recently started supplementing with 1 drop (3mg) and I've also noticed some subtle, yet positive effects. I also happen to be in the same boat as you with high total t but also high SHBG, (moderate E2) hence the question. I made a thread in November about my progress Here. Before Peat I was hypogonadal, now I'm not but despite an increase in quality of life I still want to improve.
Hey Sobieski, I checked out your thread, we seem to be in a very similar boat. My hormones started going back to healthy levels after I upped the fat and decreased the fiber.
I am going to do new labs soon after peating for 2-3 months, excited to see what they show. Honestly, desiccated thyroid has done huge changes for me, it seems like a lot of my issues was thyroid related. I am hoping to see an increase in Free T.
Progesterone is definately feminizing, and that's why commcercial milk in general is feminizing and lowers testosterone as evidenced by multiple studies, that's why transgender people take progesterone supplements to get fuller breasts, that's why progesterone lowers penile sizeI've done blood tests before and after when I used progesterone cream as well as the herb Fadogia Agrestis.
Results were increase in SHBG, total T and free T and reductions in E2 estradiol.
After this experience, I came to the conclusion that natural progesterone is not feminizing as long as it is not overdosed.
There definitely seems to be two schools of thought on progesterone. I'm still in the need-more-information/education stage, but am hoping to draw some conclusions about what one can really expect when taking progesterone.Progesterone is definately feminizing, and that's why commcercial milk in general is feminizing and lowers testosterone as evidenced by multiple studies, that's why transgender people take progesterone supplements to get fuller breasts, that's why progesterone lowers penile size
Could you elaborate on your ndt experience and dosing a bit? Im in the fence about it, struggling with my approach
Progesterone is definately feminizing, and that's why commcercial milk in general is feminizing and lowers testosterone as evidenced by multiple studies, that's why transgender people take progesterone supplements to get fuller breasts, that's why progesterone lowers penile size
First off, the studies done on hormones in milk and their consumption was done on industrialized dairy cows that are kept constantly producing milk: Exposure to exogenous estrogen through intake of commercial milk produced from pregnant cows. - PubMed - NCBI Cows that produce milk according to their natural cycle would have much less. The hormones are also concentrated in the milk fat so sticking to skim or low-fat milk would reduce them greatly. Many know the benefits of consuming more calcium than phosphorus in the diet, milk makes this easy. Also, there is quite a bit of research done that dairy has many nutritional benefits as well as reducing the risks of some diseases and cancer Milk and dairy products: good or bad for human health? An assessment of the totality of scientific evidence - You could also argue that the progesterone in milk balances its estrogen content, which is really the problematic one rather than progesterone.
Key takeaway? Milk does not seem all that problematic despite its hormone content.
Second, I live in the #1 trans-country in the world, Thailand. Few ladyboys use progesterone to make their boobs bigger here, it is mostly about estrogen therapy and/or they use an estrogenic thai herb called Pueraria Mirifica which is also popular as a boob cream for women.
If you simply google the issue as well you find plenty of contradicting stuff more in line with Peat:
"However, there is at present no clinical evidence that either progesterone or progestins enhance breast size, shape, or appearance in either trans women or cisgender women, and one study found no benefit to breast hemicircumference over estrogen alone in a small sample of trans women given both an estrogen and an ..."
"My endo who is also my gender therapist (she has twenty years of experience with TS people BTW) doesn't believe in progesterone in the treatment of transsexual women. Why? because in her experience, progesterone tends to cause masculinization effects on some women, and hence their estrogen regimen has to be increased to potentially dangerous levels (especially if the patient is over forty years of age)"
When I used progesterone cream it boosted my testosterone levels and I have proof in my labs and how I felt (I have used fadogia before solo without the same effects). It also increased my sexual function specifically erectile hardness, stamina and libido. It likley did all of this because I was slightly deficient in progesterone.
Most of the antiprogesterone crowd base their thoughts on the old studies done on synthetic progestins and not on natural progesterone. No matter how you twist and turn it progesterone exists in men and is needed in specific amounts for good health. It's all about balance.
If I follow your way of reasoning I could say that testosterone is feminizing too since if you have too much of it you will get feminizing effects from excess conversion to estrogen, which happens if you overdose your TRT, use steroids or have a deficiency of progesterone (which induces estrogen dominance). Similar as progesterone would be feminizing in excess because it would then be too much of an anti-androgen rather than just opposing estrogen.
Completely irrelvant unless you own your own cows.First off, the studies done on hormones in milk and their consumption was done on industrialized dairy cows that are kept constantly producing milk: Exposure to exogenous estrogen through intake of commercial milk produced from pregnant cows. - PubMed - NCBI Cows that produce milk according to their natural cycle would have much less.
It does reduce the hormone levels but the exposure is still huge, and it's by far the biggest environmental exposure to female sexual hormones.The hormones are also concentrated in the milk fat so sticking to skim or low-fat milk would reduce them greatly.
Both are female sex hormones and both are antagonistic to testosterone.You could also argue that the progesterone in milk balances its estrogen content, which is really the problematic one rather than progesterone.
So what is your model for explaining how milk lowers both testosterone and estrogen if it's not the progesterone? What else could it be? What in milk lowers testosterone and estrogen?Key takeaway? Milk does not seem all that problematic despite its hormone content.
Second, I live in the #1 trans-country in the world, Thailand. Few ladyboys use progesterone to make their boobs bigger here, it is mostly about estrogen therapy and/or they use an estrogenic thai herb called Pueraria Mirifica which is also popular as a boob cream for women.
If you simply google the issue as well you find plenty of contradicting stuff more in line with Peat:
"However, there is at present no clinical evidence that either progesterone or progestins enhance breast size, shape, or appearance in either trans women or cisgender women, and one study found no benefit to breast hemicircumference over estrogen alone in a small sample of trans women given both an estrogen and an ..."
"My endo who is also my gender therapist (she has twenty years of experience with TS people BTW) doesn't believe in progesterone in the treatment of transsexual women. Why? because in her experience, progesterone tends to cause masculinization effects on some women, and hence their estrogen regimen has to be increased to potentially dangerous levels (especially if the patient is over forty years of age)"
When I used progesterone cream it boosted my testosterone levels and I have proof in my labs and how I felt (I have used fadogia before solo without the same effects). It also increased my sexual function specifically erectile hardness, stamina and libido. It likley did all of this because I was slightly deficient in progesterone.
Silly nonsense, any amount of progesterone antognizes testosterone, the only way it could lead to a total increase of testosterone is if you have an estrogen problem and it antagonizes estrogen more than it antagonizes testosterone, maybe progesterone is less antagonistic to testosterone than estrogen is.If I follow your way of reasoning I could say that testosterone is feminizing too since if you have too much of it you will get feminizing effects from excess conversion to estrogen, which happens if you overdose your TRT, use steroids or have a deficiency of progesterone (which induces estrogen dominance). Similar as progesterone would be feminizing in excess because it would then be too much of an anti-androgen rather than just opposing estrogen.
Completely irrelvant unless you own your own cows.
It does reduce the hormone levels but the exposure is still huge, and it's by far the biggest environmental exposure to female sexual hormones.
Both are female sex hormones and both are antagonistic to testosterone.
So what is your model for explaining how milk lowers both testosterone and estrogen if it's not the progesterone? What else could it be? What in milk lowers testosterone and estrogen?
Interesting, maybe you had estrogen dominance before and that's why it helped you.
Silly nonsense, any amount of progesterone antognizes testosterone, the only way it could lead to a total increase of testosterone is if you have an estrogen problem and it antagonizes estrogen more than it antagonizes testosterone, maybe progesterone is less antagonistic to testosterone than estrogen is.
bull****, all the easily available milk in Sweden is from inseminated cows.Depends on the country, in my home country of Sweden you can easily get more traditional dairy.