Androgen Deficiency As The Main Cause Of Chronic Disease In Males

[Wagner83]

@Obi-wan what are your thoughts on supplementing androsterone and dht rather than progesterone and T?

 

[Tarmander]

Intelligent People More Likely To Suffer From Mental Illness

Breast Implants Can Cause Lymphoma​

Are you saying I need breast implants?

 

[Obi-wan]

That is interesting that you cited that study @Koveras. I recently observed that when taking aspirin the bone pain would be noticeable in my shoulders shortly afterwards. Repeated it a second time with the same results so disappointingly no more aspirin while on enzalutamide.

 

[mayweatherking]

excellent post haidut

 

[Obi-wan]

@Obi-wan what are your thoughts on supplementing androsterone and dht rather than progesterone and T?

While on an AR blocker I do not see how they would have a positive effect

 

[Amazoniac]

Are you saying I need breast implants?

Only if you feel comfortable doing so. I like you the way you are but I wouldn't stop you if you wanted them. It would look good, not that I encouraging to implant. There are risks. But living is risky, right?

 

[Tarmander]

Only if you feel comfortable doing so. I like you the way you are but I wouldn't stop you if you wanted them. It would look good, not that I encouraging to implant. There are risks. But living is risky, right?

Thank you for the acceptance of me as is, I was feeling insecure after reading People.

 

[Sepulchrave]

True, although to play devil's advocate, many who are on DHT might have more positive effects that outweigh the bad.

Idealab's products really appear to be the safest bet for anyone interested in supplementation.

Nope. Peat has said that he would not use Androsterone, DHEA or a DHT precursor.

 

[Dhair]

Nope. Peat has said that he would not use Androsterone, DHEA or a DHT precursor.

That's not true at all. He uses DHEA. He has said that he would like to try a few milligrams of DHT daily, and he said androsterone would be safe enough in 10-15mg amounts for something like cancer (although he's concerned that it could activate the pituitary in "potentially harmful" ways).

 

[Sepulchrave]

Which is why I said DHT precursor and not DHT itself. And you can read what Peat has written about DHEA on his website.

In my own experience, DHEA is unsafe even at low doses.

 

[cyclops]

Which is why I said DHT precursor and not DHT itself. And you can read what Peat has written about DHEA on his website.

In my own experience, DHEA is unsafe.

What did he write negative about DHEA? When did he say he would not use it?

 

[Braveheart]

in recent e mail he said he uses 5mg dhea

 

[Prefect]

Thanks @haidut

Some ideas:
- Varicocele (impaired vein valves near testicles) may lead to BPH in aging (impaired circulation strongly affects hormone level that prostate is exposed to), fixing varicocele reversed BPH in study in Israel
- LPS decreases testosterone. "...serum testosterone was found to be decreased 90% two h post ip injection of 200 micrograms of lipopolysaccharide (LPS). This decrease was sustained for 9 days"
- Intestinal Alkaline Phosphatase (gut enzyme) neutralizes LPS, IAP supplementation was shown to reverse metabolic syndrome/diabetes in mice Intestinal alkaline phosphatase prevents metabolic syndrome in mice
- Different blood types have different IAP levels, type A has less IAP. Type A men have higher balding risk (read in an Indian study), also non-type O people have higher heart disease risk. I wonder if blood type A people have other mechanisms to compensate for lack of IAP.

Overall I'm suspecting many diseases start in the gut, specifically endotoxin (I mostly know LPS, are there others?) entering the bloodstream. What would be your advise to reduce endotoxing entering the blood?

 

[dookie]

@Prefect , @haidut

I too have noticed that I feel the worst when girls say I'm "cute" or look so "sensitive". When my androgens are higher, and I have a more rough appearance, wider face, they never say that. They only say I'm cute and sensitive when my face is long/narrow and I look like a little puppy. Indeed, estrogen/serotonin does appear to make you much less manly, more like one of those white skinny sensitive girls. I too have noticed that bowel irritating foods, for me milk is pretty bowel irritating, will make me skinnier and more sensitive looking. Undoubtedly there's a connection between LPS and lower testosterone/androgens, and higher estrogen.

So, the connection is very clear: anything which disturbs the gut, and you get that effeminate/sensitive/"cute" look -- you get lower androgens, higher estrogen. But what is the practical solution to all this? Most supplements are clearly irritating, and end up being bowel irrtating ---> estrogenic/anti-androgenic. I've tried testosterone and DHT, even in miniscule doses, yet they somehow made me puffy and seemed to "aromatize" (even though I know DHT cannot theoretically automatize, some studies do show it somehow is capable of raising estrogen).

I'm hoping haidut or someone else has a way to raise androgens WITHOUT risking the aromatization to estrogen. Ideas?

 

[TibRex]

Thanks @haidut

Some ideas:

- Intestinal Alkaline Phosphatase (gut enzyme) neutralizes LPS, IAP supplementation was shown to reverse metabolic syndrome/diabetes in mice Intestinal alkaline phosphatase prevents metabolic syndrome in mice

(I've just come across this interesting passages w.r.t to IAP and would to share it ... should be of interest to diabetics.)

F a t s
"Alkaline phosphatase plays a role in the digestion and absorption of fats in the intestinal tract, and some types of oils have been found to directly stimulate alkaline phosphate production. In particular, one study published in the journal "Digestive Diseases and Sciences" in 2007 found that animals fed cod liver oil, coconut oil and corn oil had higher alkaline phosphate levels than normal." Source: What Foods Raise Alkaline Phosphatase Levels?

"Butyrate is used in a wide array of neurological disorders. The research reports its ability to elevate cellular enzymes such as alkaline phosphatase and insufficient sodium and chloride levels. "

So it if I'm understanding this correctly, we want to: supply and feed good gut bacteria,
which will ... produce more butyrate,
which will ... increase alkaline phosphatase,
which will ... promote more good microbes."

Source: Alkaline phosphatase maintains microbial balance

 

[dookie]

"Butyrate is used in a wide array of neurological disorders. The research reports its ability to elevate cellular enzymes such as alkaline phosphatase and insufficient sodium and chloride levels. "

So it if I'm understanding this correctly, we want to: supply and feed good gut bacteria,
which will ... produce more butyrate,
which will ... increase alkaline phosphatase,
which will ... promote more good microbes."

Source: Alkaline phosphatase maintains microbial balance

Important to get your Phosphorous and Cod liver Oil, as these help raise "Alkaline Phosphatase Levels", according to this article: What Foods Raise Alkaline Phosphatase Levels?

Is there really a way to "feed the good bacteria" without feeding the bad ones? Even the good ones aren't completely good, as health articles would have you believe. I've tried my share of probiotics and prebiotics. Anyone had any success with "Feeding the good bacteria", I would really like to know.

Articles like those are really diverting attention away from things that make a real difference. Metabolism trumps all those minor adjustments you can make with "special foods". "Dont forget to get your yoghurt for factors X and Y, and don't forget those greens for nutrients A,B,C, then that Omega-3 for anti-inflammation."

 

[Jsaute21]

@haidut

I was thinking about this the other day in regards to Crossift, where I distinctly remember :

1. Minimal focus on diet (other than macros) - they preach paleo, but very few actually appear to follow any strict diet

2. Maximum focus on explosive lifts providing quick muscle-building (although not necessarily healthy or safe)

Looking at Crossift athletes, they're all carrying around large amounts of muscle, which could help to keep estrogen low, and T high.

Certainly not the healthiest way to approach it, but it does force a type of physiology that might be protective against the stresses of the modern world, and is probably better than low-carb.

Most people who compete at crossfit and carry around desirable bodies are most likely using steroids, ephedrine, or compounds that are not sustainably healthy. There is no way they could attain physiques like that, while inhaling PUFA, under eating glucose, etc. I had a fitness model physique, when i eat relatively paleo, and a lot of it was due to a pre workout called lean rev, which contained DMAA, which is now banned.

 

[Sobieski]

When I was at my all time lowest in terms of health and energy, my body looked it's best. I maintained muscular 10% bodyfat relatively effortlessly; that's stress hormones for you. The puffy eyes and face is another story tho.

 

[Risingfire]

Hello All, I have been posting on various threads. I have advanced prostate cancer that has spread to my ribs and shoulders. I started wasting away last November and was put on Firmagon. My PSA went from 12,000 down to 40. Read Ray Peat and this forum and changed many things. PSA started to rise again in June of this year. I got off the Androgen Depravation Therapy (Firmagon) and did a lot of Progesterone for about 2 months. Unfortunately the PSA went back up to 13,000 (no wasting this time) and had to go back on Fermagon plus an AR blocker called Xtandi. Latest PSA is 150. Had some great conversations with @Travis and @Koveras and others on the Panquinone thread. That darn @haidut told us to move our conversation but he is still a cool dude in my book. Looks like there is a lot more going on with Prostate Cancer than meets the eye. We got into details on Xtandi and PPAR's. My thoughts, Testosterone is a pool made by LH and can be very dangerous if converted to estrogen via aromatase made by FSH. Androgen Receptors (if we believe in receptors) will allow converting androgens probably more so than non converting androgens into the damaged cell which we have no natural control of. An unoccupied androgen receptor can be just as dangerous (@Koveras ). AR's also have PPAR ligands that metabolize fats (Prostaglandins) into the cell (@Travis). I made the mistake a couple of times in thinking Chicken bone broth soup would be good to consume (PUFA). NOT! As Ray Peat mentioned Testosterone can be just as dangerous as Estrogen when used for conversion on inflamed or damaged cells. So, trying to stay Peaty but unfortunately need the drugs and hope for cell apoptosis. By the way, love this forum family!

Did you ever heard Haidut talk about the two studies where men with prostate cancer were given an injection of testosterone into their prostate?

 

[Obi-wan]

Did you ever heard Haidut talk about the two studies where men with prostate cancer were given an injection of testosterone into their prostate?

Yes I did and @Koveras did also. The test study was done at John Hopkins in Delaware. Not sure if the trial is still open. They were done on men that were resistant to all androgen depravation therapies. I a trying not to get to that point. A lot of conversation has been going on different threads ala @Travis regarding stearic acid blocking the linoleic acid/prostaglandin pathway/polyamines from entering the cell and causing proliferation. I am following with GREAT INTEREST.