Androgen Deficiency As The Main Cause Of Chronic Disease In Males

[Travis]

Yes I did and @Koveras did also. The test study was done at John Hopkins in Delaware. Not sure if the trial is still open. They were done on men that were resistant to all androgen depravation therapies. I a trying not to get to that point. A lot of conversation has been going on different threads ala @Travis regarding stearic acid blocking the linoleic acid/prostaglandin pathway/polyamines from entering the cell and causing proliferation. I am following with GREAT INTEREST.

Did you see the epidemiological data on green tea consumption? I know that some polyphenols (i.e. genestein) are estrogenic but many are not. Chocolate, for instance, has very high levels of the same polyphenol found in green tea (−)‐epigallocatechin gallate. We cannot avoid polyphenols as they are found in all fruits and vegetables; I think green tea consumption leads to lower cancer rates not so much because it has a unique polyphenol, but simply because it has very high amounts of a somewhat common one. It's interesting pondering cellular control in the lipid phase—the cell membrane, arachidonic acid, and prostaglandins—and how polyamine synthesis can be reduced by methionine restriction and through competition with selenomethionine, but there is also the water phase to think about: where small molecules like β-lapachone and select polyphenols could act to inhibit key enzymes. It could be helpful to conceptualize anticancer foods into three phases:

. . . . . . . . . carcinogenic . . . . . . .carcinostatic
Lipid: . . . linoleic acid . . . . . . . stearic acid
Protein: . methionine . . . . . . . . .threonine
Water: . . lactic acid . . . . . . . . . methylgloxal

 

[ddjd]

To further, add to this argument, please read this.

Causes of Prostatitis | Treat Prostatitis

"Again, if you’ve been taking supplements that reduce DHT levels, you’ve been doing the wrong thing. You need to be increasing DHT levels, not decreasing them. Plus balancing DHT with 4-androstenedione hormone levels. Doing so will help you reduce elevated estrogen levels because DHT does not convert to estrogen."

What's the best way to raise dht?

 

[ddjd]

This might be even safer? Creatine Increases DHT Without Lowering Testosterone

Isn't creatine just l-methionine mixed with another amino acid

 

[ddjd]

Nope. Peat has said that he would not use Androsterone, DHEA or a DHT precursor.

I thought peat takes a couple mg dhea quite regularly. I'm sure I read about this somewhere

 

[ddjd]

When I was at my all time lowest in terms of health and energy, my body looked it's best. I maintained muscular 10% bodyfat relatively effortlessly; that's stress hormones for you. The puffy eyes and face is another story tho.

Great point

 

[johnwester130]

What's the best way to raise dht?

a simple ray peat lifestyle

DHEA/pregnenolone can convert to DHT

 

[Obi-wan]

Did you see the epidemiological data on green tea consumption? I know that some polyphenols (i.e. genestein) are estrogenic but many are not. Chocolate, for instance, has very high levels of the same polyphenol found in green tea (−)‐epigallocatechin gallate. We cannot avoid polyphenols as they are found in all fruits and vegetables; I think green tea consumption leads to lower cancer rates not so much because it has a unique polyphenol, but simply because it has very high amounts of a somewhat common one. It's interesting pondering cellular control in the lipid phase—the cell membrane, arachidonic acid, and prostaglandins—and how polyamine synthesis can be reduced by methionine restriction and through competition with selenomethionine, but there is also the water phase to think about: where small molecules like β-lapachone and select polyphenols could act to inhibit key enzymes. It could be helpful to conceptualize anticancer foods into three phases:

. . . . . . . . . carcinogenic . . . . . . .carcinostatic
Lipid: . . . linoleic acid . . . . . . . stearic acid
Protein: . methionine . . . . . . . . .threonine
Water: . . lactic acid . . . . . . . . . methylgloxal

Thanks @Travis, I know what foods to stay away from and what to eat for the Lipid phase. Not so sure what to stay away from for the Protein and Water phase. Taking cottage cheese for threonine. Chocolate, cocoa butter, and shea butter for stearic acid. Taking Beta-lapachone and emodin ala Lapodin and coffee to inhibit key enzymes and improve digestion. Take Selenomethionine to reduce polamine synthesis.

Also take 100-200 mg Progesterone to pull estrogen out of the tissues, aspirin, Vit K4, Vit E, Vit B's ala Energin.

Thoughts or suggestions? Thanks!

 

[Risingfire]

Yes I did and @Koveras did also. The test study was done at John Hopkins in Delaware. Not sure if the trial is still open. They were done on men that were resistant to all androgen depravation therapies. I a trying not to get to that point. A lot of conversation has been going on different threads ala @Travis regarding stearic acid blocking the linoleic acid/prostaglandin pathway/polyamines from entering the cell and causing proliferation. I am following with GREAT INTEREST.

What are you fearful about?

Either way, I hope you make a quick recovery!!!

 

[Travis]

Thanks @Travis, I know what foods to stay away from and what to eat for the Lipid phase. Not so sure what to stay away from for the Protein and Water phase. Taking cottage cheese for threonine. Chocolate, cocoa butter, and shea butter for stearic acid. Taking Beta-lapachone and emodin ala Lapodin and coffee to inhibit key enzymes and improve digestion. Take Selenomethionine to reduce polamine synthesis.

Also take 100-200 mg Progesterone to pull estrogen out of the tissues, aspirin, Vit K4, Vit E, Vit B's ala Energin.

Thoughts or suggestions? Thanks!

You know the only thing I would do further would be to perhaps limit meat consumption a bit, but I don't want to be too much of a pest. I know beef has an excellent fatty acid profile, but the muscle—like any muscle—is still a bit high in the polyamine precursors. Perhaps this could be where the steak + gelatin modification could come in; Ray Peat has talked about eating these together to help balance the amino acid ratios. Yet, raw fruits and vegetables are consistently found protective so the less meat someone eats the more room that have for these. I know that pineapples and cottage cheese go well together, and I used to eat mandarin slices and/or grapes with Greek yogurt all the time. Eating pineapple or papaya temporally close to meat consumption could provide bromelain and papain enzymes which could break down the proteins even quicker, giving them less time to become polyamines lower in the digestive tract.

Fusing all the best people's ideas—Koch's, Gerson's, Szent‐Györgyi's, Ray Peat's—together, along with the epidemiological associations, yields a diet of raw fruit eating and vegetable juicing along with: lapachol, threonine, stearic acid, selenomethionine, and perhaps even green tea.

 

[Wagner83]

What about oxtail soup? It sure tastes nice, even more so with white button mushrooms (anti-estrogenic broth). I don't know if the polyamines of mushrooms would be a real concern and if the anti-estrogenic effect would outweigh potential negative effects. The broth is really potent.

 

[Amazoniac]

Fusing all the best people's ideas—Koch's, Gerson's, Szent‐Györgyi's, Ray Peat's—together, along with the epidemiological associations, yields a diet of raw fruit eating and vegetable juicing along with: lapachol, threonine, stearic acid, selenomethionine, and perhaps even green tea.

Gerson and Ray would probably include supplemental thyroid. I wonder why you never mentioned it.

 

[nbznj]

When I was at my all time lowest in terms of health and energy, my body looked it's best. I maintained muscular 10% bodyfat relatively effortlessly; that's stress hormones for you. The puffy eyes and face is another story tho.

Same for me, although my hair health and skin were great. Turns out my bloods showed high T and low e2, but also very low free T. Liver wasn't doing great with LDL in the 200s which is IMO a sign of poor metabolism. I didn't ask for it; I suspect SHBG was very high. Definitely stress related. Very low energy for sure, it got better doing TRT.

I've been reading here and there on this forum that androgenic alopecia and male pattern baldness seem to be different, what is a good lecture for me to get started before digging deeper into those? I'm aware that fixing the dietary fatty acids brings a very nice change. Keeping protein in the 150- grams per day instead of 200+, even for someone who's into bodybuilding. Keeping T in the high 3 digits, e2 in range, TSH nice and low, those are all good signs already.

 

[Sobieski]

Same for me, although my hair health and skin were great. Turns out my bloods showed high T and low e2, but also very low free T. Liver wasn't doing great with LDL in the 200s which is IMO a sign of poor metabolism. I didn't ask for it; I suspect SHBG was very high. Definitely stress related. Very low energy for sure, it got better doing TRT.

I've been reading here and there on this forum that androgenic alopecia and male pattern baldness seem to be different, what is a good lecture for me to get started before digging deeper into those? I'm aware that fixing the dietary fatty acids brings a very nice change. Keeping protein in the 150- grams per day instead of 200+, even for someone who's into bodybuilding. Keeping T in the high 3 digits, e2 in range, TSH nice and low, those are all good signs already.

I'm in the same boat regarding T and SHBG. When I started Peating my total T was Low ( around 400) and free t was very low. 5 months in My free T got into the upper 700s (despite very low LH and FSH, which is a good thing according to many here) and free T into acceptable range. I feel better in many ways but my hair loss has actually increased since adopting Peat principles which I do attribute to greater androgens.

 

[nbznj]

have you tested estradiol at all times? Higher free T could definitely mean higher e2 and/or higher DHT, so that's where the AA/MPB thing bothers me since I'd like to quantify how much of it is genetic and how much of it is lifestyle related - leading to hormonal imbalances. My T/e2 ratio was 80, ridiculously high (some study on rats I can't find associated it with psycopath behaviors ha). I see people with a ratio closer to 10-20, too low IMO. Somewhere in between should be ideal so that you're tweaking the androgen/estrogen expression towards more androgens.

Not surprised you feel better with T in the most ideal part of the range. Nice jump up following Peat ideas. I can't recommend them enough to my friends and family.

I'm skeptical about LH and FSH being very low, usually it's associated with hypogonadism. That's what I've been taught however this website told me to keep an open mind with Western medicine paradigms.

 

[Sobieski]

My ratio is just over 20. So not ideal, however that is without much in the way of aromatase inhibitors or anti estrogenic supplements. My average pufa intake was anywhere between 20-60 grams a day before Peat so it's no wonder I've seen benefits in that regard.

 

[Obi-wan]

What are you fearful about?

Either way, I hope you make a quick recovery!!!

Thanks @Risingfire , not fearful just determined to finding a solution

 

[Aleeri]

I see people with a ratio closer to 10-20, too low IMO. Somewhere in between should be ideal so that you're tweaking the androgen/estrogen expression towards more androgens.

Is that the ratio between Total T and Estradiol or?

On my last test I was:

Total T - 9.14 ng/mL
Estradiol E2 - 30.3 pg/mL

This would be a ratio of 30ish right?

This is like real awesome total T, the problem is my SHBG as always been very high and my free T is 124 pg/mL (range 90-300) at last labs before that one, which is like not that great.

It was even down at 80 pg/mL 1 year ago and then I was suffering. Still have issues also even at 124.

 

[nbznj]

fructose is supposed to lower SHBG. Insulin does as well.

This ratio looks great by the way, perfect numbers in my opinion.

 

[Aleeri]

fructose is supposed to lower SHBG. Insulin does as well.

This ratio looks great by the way, perfect numbers in my opinion.

Thanks for feedback, a lot of work went into battling the estrogen haha, I was estrogen dominant few years back.

The numbers you see was actually while following a low carb diet completely free of sugar, before I discovered Ray Peat.

So now I've been on Thyroid and a diet a lot higher in fructose about 3 weeks, feeling better for sure but will have to give it a good few months I think.

0.5 grain Thyroid has really been a wakeup call for me that my metabolism have been completely out of whack for years, it's like a light have been turned on in my brain, amazing.

 

[klauban]

I still wonder if DHT is partly responsible for MPB.
When I was 22 my T was in 3.9ng/ml .Range 2.8-8. Testicular volume 15ml.
I did not get treatment in Germany. My cortisol is dysregulated due to resulting depression and psychiatric illnesses.
At least, I thought that it protects me against balding. aand it seems that too high T and DHT can result in balding in genetically predisposed individuals.