The Great RPF Origin Of Species Poll

[pimpnamedraypeat]

This is exactly the type of thing I was thinking about ,layers and layers of similarity,it's possible the motion and change of it all is just how the universe always has been,it's only the motion and movement of change that creates the illusion of life and death,what dies is the question? For overall reality it never dies ,this reality we speak of is an organism potentially always existing with said motion,all creatures are just temporary waves like mountains and the rest you highlight. Everything has its own tempo,vortex within vortex.
There may be no outside of it.

I don't know about no magnetic laser or oceans of folding. I just know that the same thing that animates the planets through also animates us. What you see when you look at someone or yourself is just inert matter. It is the life force that animates it that is important...not the specific combination of atoms that are being animated at any point in time. Life is like a standing wave

 

[Queequeg]

Electricity causes plants to grow in such a way that they maximize access to sunlight. Electricity causes lighting bolts to spread out so that they equalize the charge between the clouds and the ground.

This leads me to believe that a plants growth is the result of an imbalance between a plants energy requirements and it's energy access. Plants use sunlight which is em radiation. A tree is a reified lightning bolt, my friend. It seeks equilibrium.

You say gravity treats all objects ewually but there is quite a difference between how gravity treats the water on the ground vs the water in the clouds.

Gravity does not exert the same force on an object regardless of energy level. If it did you wouldn't be able to get up in the morning. You expend EM energy to counteract the effects of EM gravity every day.

The reason charged water runs downhill is because it has so called "potential energy" which is, of course, electric. And anyways if you were able to sufficiently increase the energy store of a body of water it would stop flowing downhill and instead float up into the clouds.

The reason the laws of thermodynamics apply to all systems is because all systems run on electricity. Heat is electromagnetic radiation.

I think you have taken the electric universe theory way beyond what its proponents claim. It doesn't negate the laws of physics or say that every phenomenon is electrical in nature.

• Plant growth is not governed by electricity. Sun light is not electricity nor is the chemistry involved with photosynthesis.
  
• Gravity effects water vapor in the same way it does liquid water or a person trying to get out of bed. It's always the same regardless of the object.
  
• Potential energy is not always electric. There are many types of potential energy including gravitational potential.
• Increasing the energy store of water does not make it float. If you vaporize it, it will be displaced by colder heavier air but gravity is still in effect.
  
• Thermodynamics does not depend on electricity.
  
• Heat is not electromagnetic radiation. Heat is a measurement of the movement of an object's atoms and molecules. Objects do give off thermal radiation but that is different than heat,

 

[pimpnamedraypeat]

I think you have taken the electric universe theory way beyond what its proponents claim. It doesn't negate the laws of physics or say that every phenomenon is electrical in nature.

• Plant growth is not governed by electricity. Sun light is not electricity nor is the chemistry involved with photosynthesis.
  
• Gravity effects water vapor in the same way it does liquid water or a person trying to get out of bed. It's always the same regardless of the object.
  
• Potential energy is not always electric. There are many types of potential energy including gravitational potential.
• Increasing the energy store of water does not make it float. If you vaporize it, it will be displaced by colder heavier air but gravity is still in effect.
  
• Thermodynamics does not depend on electricity.
  
• Heat is not electromagnetic radiation. Heat is a measurement of the movement of an object's atoms and molecules. Objects do give off thermal radiation but that is different than heat,

I don't care what they say. I say every phenomenon is electrical.

• Plant growth is mediated by electricity. Sun light is electrical. The chemistry involved with photosynthesis is electrical because all chemistry is electrical.
• Gravity affects you differently depending on the square of the distance from the center of mass of whatever object you're gravitationally attracted to. It also affects you differently depending on what you're doing and how much energy you're expending. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to move.
• Gravitational potential energy is electric because gravity is electric.
• What compels floating water vapor to counteract the effects of gravity? Why is colder air heavier?
• Thermodynamics is the study of a system made up of the amalgamation of countless minute electrical interactions. Of course it depends on electricity. Need I remind you what electrons are? Or electro magnetic radiation? Let's not play semantics please. Heat is electric. Thermal radiation is electric.

 

[Waynish]

Every phenomena will have *something* to do with the 4 forces of the universe because they are basically ever present...
I would probably choose "other" because I don't think in terms of one of these paradigms, but rather the many different mechanisms that have been identified as being able to affect evolution. They're not all mutually exclusive, but I would exclude intelligent design.

 

[BigYellowLemon]

First I want to say that Lamarckism was never sufficiently disproven, and it is bull**** that we were taught it was. August Weismann cut the tails off of rats and found no difference in their offspring. We are taught this supposedly disproves Lamarckism.

Honestly I think this does slightly disprove Lamarckism, just read the definitions Lamarck laid out. However it doesn't really disprove the more essential idea behind his theory, that is that the environment directly changes the individual, and this change is passed on to their progeny, irrespective of any selective processes.

Anyways, ideas like this are laughed at, but somehow some sly (or dumb) people have gotten passed this by putting a glossy sexy sciencey veneer on it. They now call it epigenetics, instead of Lamarckism.

I just looked and found this: Lamarckism - Wikipedia

I guess they are aware of the connotations epigenetics has.

---

@pimpnamedraypeat

Though I agree electricity is intimately involved in life and nature, I don't think all of the patterns you are speaking of are due to electricity.

And BTW, it's pretty well established in the mainstream that electricity is involved in life/nature, even in the mainstream. Sure, maybe not to the extent that we here on the RP forum, but nonetheless it's accepted. The mainstream is aware of membrane voltage, action potentials, signalling with ions (electrical morphogenesis). There's even some mainstream people aware of the impact light plays in biology, like biophoton signalling.

But back to what I was saying. It's odd to me that you jump to electricity. You see biology, roads, water, galaxies, you see them in patterns similar to the pattern electricity takes. Then you say that because of this, everything is electrical. Well, going by that logic, I could just say that everything in nature follows the pattern of roads, and thus roads play an important part in every process of the universe. And obviously that makes no sense.

To repeat what @Queequeg said, the reason all of these things follow the same pattern, isn't because they are like each other in any way. Well, actually there is something that binds them and is the reason they look similar, and that something is the fact that they are all matter, and thus have mechanics. The mechanic being, it will follow the path of least resistance.

It really comes down to a more fundamental nature of things, and that is that they follow the path of least resistance. Just like the more basic law of cause -> effect, or the basic law that "if one things hits another thing, energy from thing 1 will be transferred to thing 2".

We are dealing with a very fundamental truth/law of the universe. As far as I know, electricity is a step up. Just like the difference between Gilbert lings work (structured water/nanoprotoplasm) and insulin.

A lot of the processes you mentioned, like biology and water, intimately involve electricity, but that isn't the reason for the patterns they create. Electricity is just as much a slave to the path of least resistance as water or roads or microtubules are.

Something interesting I want to mention.

The larger an animal is, the slower it's heartbeat is, and vice versa (this might be because larger animals generally utilize less PUFA in their membranes - which is the reason mice, which utilize large amounts of PUFA in their membranes, have extremely fast heartbeats). There's some mathematics that can predict the heartbeat of an animal based on its size.

So, I remember watching some documentary, and it said that when traffic in cities is treated as if it was bloodflow, then the equation works out perfectly. Basically, if an animal was the size of New York, then the traffic in New York would mirror the bloodflow of that giant animal perfectly. And, as mentioned, cities have road systems which very much resemble rivers/neural networks/blood vessels.

Neural networks also follow the same pattern of rivers/roads/veins/etc.

Interesting site made by the creator of TAGsync: Small World Networks

 

[Queequeg]

Lamarckism and natural selection can both be present. Heritability of acquired behaviors can accompany gradual, seemingly "random" variation over time as in natural selection.

Yes I agree. I was speaking from a dogmatic neo-Darwinist point of view which militantly excludes any notion of Lamarckism as heretical. They would also describe epigenetics as something very different than Lamarckism.

 

[Drareg]

I don't know about no magnetic laser or oceans of folding. I just know that the same thing that animates the planets through also animates us. What you see when you look at someone or yourself is just inert matter. It is the life force that animates it that is important...not the specific combination of atoms that are being animated at any point in time. Life is like a standing wave

Yes but the life force animating is also creating the matter,this is a paradox of sort,the matter is shaped by said life force but is also said force,they are one and the same surely?
What is inert matter? Heraclitus-donkeys prefer garbage to gold- said inert matter is gold for something else within said reality/force as it is made of force.
Poo is a dung beetles life......

 

[Drareg]

I think a big problem here also is the fact that other categories are not included, RNA for example has little known on it and much more,the study of plants, we don’t here these theories because new Darwinism suits those in power,money got poured into these theories to push them into the popular mind,the same with claims of DNA as a master molecule,terms like master give an air of supreme controller,it’s virtually a useless molecule without the cell,proteins etc,the system is interlocked,the public have no clue.

 

[Drareg]

Also someone explain the creatures that contain no DNA....

 

[pimpnamedraypeat]

@pimpnamedraypeat

But back to what I was saying. It's odd to me that you jump to electricity. You see biology, roads, water, galaxies, you see them in patterns similar to the pattern electricity takes. Then you say that because of this, everything is electrical. Well, going by that logic, I could just say that everything in nature follows the pattern of roads, and thus roads play an important part in every process of the universe. And obviously that makes no sense.

No one follows the other. Roads, nerves, veins, roots follow electricity. Matter follows energy.

To repeat what @Queequeg said, the reason all of these things follow the same pattern, isn't because they are like each other in any way. Well, actually there is something that binds them and is the reason they look similar, and that something is the fact that they are all matter, and thus have mechanics. The mechanic being, it will follow the path of least resistance.

It really comes down to a more fundamental nature of things, and that is that they follow the path of least resistance. Just like the more basic law of cause -> effect, or the basic law that "if one things hits another thing, energy from thing 1 will be transferred to thing 2".

The law of conservation of momentum was disproven over a hundred years ago.

Lorentz explained to Poincaré, "It seems unlikely that we will gain success. I rather think (and these results are also implicit in your comments) that the violation of the principle of reaction is essential in all theories that are able to explain Fizeau's experiment". Lorentz realized that he had to choose between Fizeau's experiment and the principle of action and reaction, and he told Poincaré, "As to the principle of reaction, it does not seem to be a fundamental principle of physics".

Anyways that is beside the point.

We are dealing with a very fundamental truth/law of the universe. As far as I know, electricity is a step up. Just like the difference between Gilbert lings work (structured water/nanoprotoplasm) and insulin.

Electromagnetic frequencies have mass this has been proven. Mass, inertia, momentum, and gravity are a result of electromagnetic interactions. These basic laws of physics you love so much are electric in nature. Matter is a step up, not electricity.

A lot of the processes you mentioned, like biology and water, intimately involve electricity, but that isn't the reason for the patterns they create. Electricity is just as much a slave to the path of least resistance as water or roads or microtubules are.

You keep saying it backwards. Microtubules and water and roads are just as much a slave to the past of least resistance as electricity. Have you ever heard of a little something called ohms law?

Something interesting I want to mention.

The larger an animal is, the slower it's heartbeat is, and vice versa (this might be because larger animals generally utilize less PUFA in their membranes - which is the reason mice, which utilize large amounts of PUFA in their membranes, have extremely fast heartbeats). There's some mathematics that can predict the heartbeat of an animal based on its size.

So, I remember watching some documentary, and it said that when traffic in cities is treated as if it was bloodflow, then the equation works out perfectly. Basically, if an animal was the size of New York, then the traffic in New York would mirror the bloodflow of that giant animal perfectly. And, as mentioned, cities have road systems which very much resemble rivers/neural networks/blood vessels.

Neural networks also follow the same pattern of rivers/roads/veins/etc.

Interesting site made by the creator of TAGsync: Small World Networks

Interesting. You know who else likes scaling laws? Electrical engineers. The smaller a processor the faster it is.

 

[pimpnamedraypeat]

Yes but the life force animating is also creating the matter,this is a paradox of sort,the matter is shaped by said life force but is also said force,they are one and the same surely?
What is inert matter? Heraclitus-donkeys prefer garbage to gold- said inert matter is gold for something else within said reality/force as it is made of force.
Poo is a dung beetles life......

Matter is shaped by electricity yes but I don't think matter IS electricity. Though I'm not 100% certain it isn't. I mean atoms are made of protons and electrons which are electrically charged. Neutrons are electrically neutral but they do have do have a magnetic dipolar moment. Maybe it wouldn't be such a stretch to say matter is electromagnetic.

You bringing up Heraclitus reminds me; the ancients believed that matter was a prison. According to them we are already dead and this material existance is our punishment. According to them, we are already in hell.

 

[Nokoni]

This guy says speciation is primarily a hybridization process. He's an expert on bird hybridization.
Macroevolution.net - Biology, hybrids, human origins and more

 

[Queequeg]

No one follows the other. Roads, nerves, veins, roots follow electricity. Matter follows energy.

The law of conservation of momentum was disproven over a hundred years ago.
Lorentz explained to Poincaré, "It seems unlikely that we will gain success. I rather think (and these results are also implicit in your comments) that the violation of the principle of reaction is essential in all theories that are able to explain Fizeau's experiment". Lorentz realized that he had to choose between Fizeau's experiment and the principle of action and reaction, and he told Poincaré, "As to the principle of reaction, it does not seem to be a fundamental principle of physics".

Conservation of momentum was never disproven. Newton's Third Law is a special case of conservation of momentum and as Poincare has stated does not always apply.

Electromagnetic frequencies have mass this has been proven. Mass, inertia, momentum, and gravity are a result of electromagnetic interactions. These basic laws of physics you love so much are electric in nature. Matter is a step up, not electricity.

They have relativistic mass which is the same as relativistic energy. At the speed of light this is very different than inertial mass. But again electromagnetic radiation is not the same as electricity. Just like heat can generate infrared radiation an electric current can generate electromagnetic radiation but the two are distinctly different.

You keep saying it backwards. Microtubules and water and roads are just as much a slave to the past of least resistance as electricity. Have you ever heard of a little something called ohms law?

The path of least resistance is just an approximate analogy used to describe the tendency for all systems to minimize their states of energy. As I said previously it is another way to state the Second Law of Thermodynamics and applies to all systems, not just electricity.

Interesting. You know who else likes scaling laws? Electrical engineers. The smaller a processor the faster it is.

Electrical engineers also realize that not everything is primarily electric.

 

[Drareg]

Matter is shaped by electricity yes but I don't think matter IS electricity. Though I'm not 100% certain it isn't. I mean atoms are made of protons and electrons which are electrically charged. Neutrons are electrically neutral but they do have do have a magnetic dipolar moment. Maybe it wouldn't be such a stretch to say matter is electromagnetic.

You bringing up Heraclitus reminds me; the ancients believed that matter was a prison. According to them we are already dead and this material existance is our punishment. According to them, we are already in hell.

Don’t you think there is more beyond electricity and magnetism? I mean they are interconnected?

My question would be why would it be a prison? It implies the system has flaws but when you regress on it it all seems pointless,if reality is all there is why does it need to shape itself in the first place,if it’s just this all the time with meaning an intrinsic property,it’s seems like all the power it has yet it condenses down into pockets of forms and patterns,why not be still and be all power? it seems redundant for all powerful reality to have death like this,it’s juts another level of flux,but why the flux and folding into form,this ‘why’ is relevant.
I think we are lenses,the whirlwind spirals Peat speaks of are what is at the lowest level,they control and slow the force/reality running through us and this force is coming through in different ways depending on the net spirals slowing it down. Like lenses these spirals are.
The question still begs about why all powerful reality bothers to behave this way,my point of above would stand then about coming into flux and going out ,life and death at every level,expressing of waves and condensing of waves,this property present at all levels with the similar examples you gave so it must be present at the highest level.

 

[Queequeg]

If you have any interest in challenging everything we have been taught about the origin of the universe and evolution by a former evolutionist Professor then I highly recommend this video series.
If you are not religious you can just try to ignore the bible quotes as the vast majority of his evidence is commonly accepted but not widely promulgated scientific evidence that makes the current theories of the big bang and Darwinian Evolution almost impossible to hold.

 

[LUH 3417]

Why does “it just follow the path of least resistance” suffice for an argument against the electric universe theory? Wouldn’t there be a reason why there is less resistance or more conductance? What exactly is resisting what?