Shutdown Sees Resistance Of MDs And Lawyers

LeeLemonoil

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I can only observe the situation in my native Germany to an extent, but more and more professional people of the two important trades: MDs and Lawyers. Everyting in German to my regret, can't translate all just now

The main German Instituiton and Authority for epidemic control and organization, Robert-Koch-Institute, gave a formal recommendation to patthologist NOT to examine post-mortem alleged Corona-dead.
Reason: Aerosol-producing measure should be prevented. And self-protection of pathologists.
Note: These guys routinely examine Tbc, HIV, Ebola victims and so forth ...Post-Mortem of Covid-19 victims a scarce.
Caused quite a steer among some of them.





A laywer specialized in constitutional right is now sueing zhe government due to the Shutdown being severly in breach of the German Constitution. Let's see how far that will go.
http://beatebahner.de/lib.medien/aktualisierte Pressemitteilung.pdf

Prof. Bhakdi is a microbioogist and Epidemolog for nfectious diseases. Was head of a university department for 22 years. Wrote an open letter to the German Chancellor and made it public via a YT-Video a few days ago:




@Giraffe @boris
 

tankasnowgod

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boris

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Good to hear. There are some voices of reason that are not shamed and slandered. But they are few and far between.

 

Giraffe

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An Austrian physician (specialist in microbiology, virology and epidemiology) is risking the ***t storm: Prof DDr Martin Haditsch

Some of his points:
  • Whoever criticizes that people compare SARS-CoV-2 infection with influenza has not understood how severe influenza is. Why does influenza not spur anything like the actions we see now?
  • The health system in Italy is chronically overstrained. Severe cost cuts led to poor hygiene in hospitals and resulting nosocomial (= hospital aquired) infections. France and Italy have per capita only 40% of the hospital beds that Austria and Germany have. Any comparison with France and Italy should take this into account (and be communicated accordingly), else it's fear mongering.
  • If we want to be able to afford a health system in the future, someone needs to generate income: The shutdown of the economy is grossly negligent.
  • Virologists and institutions such as the German Robert Koch Institute (German CDC) and the WHO present data on infectivity and virulency as if they were verifiable facts, though they have no idea how many people are infected. That's astonishing!!
  • It's the elderly and the chronically sick who are at risk: Why not allow the others (the majority) to go on with their business, and in this way avoid the dramatic impact on economy?
 

Giraffe

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German lawyer Beate Bahner prepared a legal opinion regarding the restrictions in Germany.

She calls for the immediate lifting of the unconstitutional corona edicts.

She states that the edicts impinge on several constitutional rights. This is the biggest scandal since the second world war. She writes that it's nuts to quarantine the healthy ones. To deny the elderly in nursing homes their right to get in contact with their family and friends is a monstrous barbarity. Policemen who persecute innocent are guilty under criminal law; they may face five years in prison.

All Germans have the right to resist any person seeking to abolish the constitutional order, if no other remedy is available.
[Article 20 constitutional principles]

http://beatebahner.de/lib.medien/Erklaerung Beate Bahner 7.4.2020.pdf

Finally she calls for countrywide demonstrations:

Coronoia 2020 – Nie wieder mit uns. Wir stehen heute auf!
Easter Saturday, 3 pm
 

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SOMO

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Americans are more compliant, go-with-the-grain and indoctrinated than our European counterparts. I don't think Americans are going to ask for reason and rationality on this issue.

An Austrian physician (specialist in microbiology, virology and epidemiology) is risking the ***t storm: Prof DDr Martin Haditsch


  • Virologists and institutions such as the German Robert Koch Institute (German CDC) and the WHO present data on infectivity and virulency as if they were verifiable facts, though they have no idea how many people are infected. That's astonishing!!

Has Corona fulfilled all of Koch's Postulates?
 

LeeLemonoil

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Bahner is already getting prosecuted.

Germany‘s constitution was created in 1949 and is explicitly designed to protect the citizen from an intrusive, totalitarian state - a logical reaction to the experiences of the Nazi-Dictatorship.

We have a paragraph that explicitly grants the civilian the right to resistance against the state if the state is in breach of the basic rights of the constitution.
It’s clear that this is a very weak and abstract right that a malign state in the process of breaching those rights will override.

Nonetheless, it gives people here a bit of an incentive to finally stand up against the shutdown without feeling like criminals, that’s probably all it needs.
Sadly, the majority of the populace is ignorant of the legal implicatinondof the Situation. And there are many who really feel their life’s threatened by corona. They gladly would welcome a more drastic lockdown even.

They wouldn’t get their assess moved for the constitution. But somr might get their asses moved because they want to meet friends, drink, sit in the sun and go to the cinema again. Ennui. Many People don’t know what to do with themselves when they fall back on themselves except beating up their wives.
Im under no Illusion that the majority of Germans would risk much for our democracy and the rule of law, but I take fighting for the right to party for the Time being is better than nothing
 

boris

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A call for censorship on social media.
"Trust the WHO. Trust the 'quality' media"
 

Giraffe

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More people in Germany voicing their concerns (paper in German) ...

Thesenpapier zur Pandemie durch SARS-CoV-2/Covid-19: Datenbasis verbessern, Prävention gezielt weiterentwickeln, Bürgerrechte wahren

This is a statement that was prepared by an interdisciplinary team of six specialists from different universities and other institutions/organizations:

They discuss in detail:
  • the lack of meaningful data
  • the way data a communicated by the authorities (fearmongering)
  • the lack of effectiveness of the containment measures
  • the risk that is associated with the flattening of the curve (second wave)
  • the social injustice of the measures
  • that the measures are disproportionality
  • that our liberty rights are taken away from us in an unlawful way
  • how we are becoming an authoritarian Big Brother state
  • ...
They make suggestions of how to better handle the crisis better, how to protect the vulnerable etc.

Please read!
 

Lejeboca

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More people in Germany voicing their concerns (paper in German) ...

Thesenpapier zur Pandemie durch SARS-CoV-2/Covid-19: Datenbasis verbessern, Prävention gezielt weiterentwickeln, Bürgerrechte wahren

This is a statement that was prepared by an interdisciplinary team of six specialists from different universities and other institutions/organizations:

They discuss in detail:
  • the lack of meaningful data
  • the way data a communicated by the authorities (fearmongering)
  • the lack of effectiveness of the containment measures
  • the risk that is associated with the flattening of the curve (second wave)
  • the social injustice of the measures
  • that the measures are disproportionality
  • that our liberty rights are taken away from us in an unlawful way
  • how we are becoming an authoritarian Big Brother state
  • ...
They make suggestions of how to better handle the crisis better, how to protect the vulnerable etc.

Please read!

Is there a version in English? Hate to use one of GAFAM's Translate; hence decided to ask first.
Maybe, I will learn German !? And why not, after all.
 

Giraffe

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Despite the German CDC's formal recommendation to pathologists not to examine post-mortem alleged covid-19 dead, Professor Klaus Püschel, head of forensic medicine in Hamburg, did just this: He examined them all. He says that understanding how patients died gives important insights for the treatment of the sick.

He found that all of them had severe underlying diseases, though some didn't know. For them the virus has only been the last straw. About 20% of the examined died of causes that are completely unrelated to the virus. Püschel says that we don't need to be scared to death. "This is an infectious disease like the many we have known for years. We have had them in the past. We will have them in the future. When it comes to the risk the virus poses on the individual there is nothing special."


“This virus influences our lives in a completely excessive way [which] is disproportionate to the danger posed by the virus… [likewise] the astronomical economic damage now being caused is not commensurate with the danger posed by the virus. I am convinced that the corona mortality rate will not even show up as a peak in annual mortality.” He states that in Hamburg for example, “not a single person who was not previously ill had died of the virus: all those we have examined so far had cancer, a chronic lung disease, were heavy smokers or severely obese, suffered from diabetes or had a cardiovascular disease. The virus was the last straw that broke the camel’s back, so to speak. Covid-19 is a fatal disease only in exceptional cases, but in most cases it is a predominantly harmless viral infection.”

pressreader.com/germany/hamburger-morgenpost

.....

[German CDC counts everyone who died with the virus as covid-19 death.]
 

Giraffe

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Two German organizations of pathologists have demanded that as many as possible of those who died of covid-19 are examined postmortem in order to understand the disease better. They hope that this will help to find treatment options. They thus object to the formal recommendation of German Robert Koch Institute to not examine covid-19 deaths.

COVID-19: Pathologen für möglichst zahlreiche Obduktionen
 

Vinny

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Despite the German CDC's formal recommendation to pathologists not to examine post-mortem alleged covid-19 dead, Professor Klaus Püschel, head of forensic medicine in Hamburg, did just this: He examined them all. He says that understanding how patients died gives important insights for the treatment of the sick.

He found that all of them had severe underlying diseases, though some didn't know. For them the virus has only been the last straw. About 20% of the examined died of causes that are completely unrelated to the virus. Püschel says that we don't need to be scared to death. "This is an infectious disease like the many we have known for years. We have had them in the past. We will have them in the future. When it comes to the risk the virus poses on the individual there is nothing special."


“This virus influences our lives in a completely excessive way [which] is disproportionate to the danger posed by the virus… [likewise] the astronomical economic damage now being caused is not commensurate with the danger posed by the virus. I am convinced that the corona mortality rate will not even show up as a peak in annual mortality.” He states that in Hamburg for example, “not a single person who was not previously ill had died of the virus: all those we have examined so far had cancer, a chronic lung disease, were heavy smokers or severely obese, suffered from diabetes or had a cardiovascular disease. The virus was the last straw that broke the camel’s back, so to speak. Covid-19 is a fatal disease only in exceptional cases, but in most cases it is a predominantly harmless viral infection.”

pressreader.com/germany/hamburger-morgenpost

.....

[German CDC counts everyone who died with the virus as covid-19 death.]
Thanks
 

Giraffe

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There was a very beautiful interview with Prof. Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi (in German):

  • We live in symbiosis with viruses and bacteria.
  • Not the best idea to try to fight the virus. Successful viruses don't kill the host.
  • First 'corona death' in Germany was a person who was in palliative care anyway.
  • There is cross immunity between different strains of corona viruses. That offers protection, though not 100%.
  • Covid-19 isn't the big killer.
  • What German Robert Koch Institute is doing has nothing to do with science.
  • Post-mortem examinations are necessary to understand diseases.
  • It's violating a principle in medicine not to distinguish between "died with" versus "died of". You wouldn't pass the exam in medicine.
  • These containment measures are naive. They don't make sense at all. First they don't make sense, and second they always come too late if it's a very infectious disease. Allow it run, and after four weeks it's over. Prof. Knut Wittkowski said this, too.
  • Do protect the weak and the elderly, but that is understood. This is what we always do.
  • The mass media are a disaster.
  • People are dying because hospitals are a catastrophe. Doctors are furloughed now. If someone has a heart attack or a stroke, every minute counts.
He used the word "Einigkeit" very often. It's how the German national anthem starts: "Unity and justice and freedom". Finally he reminded of this. People can do this again.
 

Regina

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There was a very beautiful interview with Prof. Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi (in German):

  • We live in symbiosis with viruses and bacteria.
  • Not the best idea to try to fight the virus. Successful viruses don't kill the host.
  • First 'corona death' in Germany was a person who was in palliative care anyway.
  • There is cross immunity between different strains of corona viruses. That offers protection, though not 100%.
  • Covid-19 isn't the big killer.
  • What German Robert Koch Institute is doing has nothing to do with science.
  • Post-mortem examinations are necessary to understand diseases.
  • It's violating a principle in medicine not to distinguish between "died with" versus "died of". You wouldn't pass the exam in medicine.
  • These containment measures are naive. They don't make sense at all. First they don't make sense, and second they always come too late if it's a very infectious disease. Allow it run, and after four weeks it's over. Prof. Knut Wittkowski said this, too.
  • Do protect the weak and the elderly, but that is understood. This is what we always do.
  • The mass media are a disaster.
  • People are dying because hospitals are a catastrophe. Doctors are furloughed now. If someone has a heart attack or a stroke, every minute counts.
He used the word "Einigkeit" very often. It's how the German national anthem starts: "Unity and justice and freedom". Finally he reminded of this. People can do this again.
:hearteyes:
 

Lejeboca

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Messages
635
There was a very beautiful interview with Prof. Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi (in German):

  • We live in symbiosis with viruses and bacteria.
  • Not the best idea to try to fight the virus. Successful viruses don't kill the host.
  • First 'corona death' in Germany was a person who was in palliative care anyway.
  • There is cross immunity between different strains of corona viruses. That offers protection, though not 100%.
  • Covid-19 isn't the big killer.
  • What German Robert Koch Institute is doing has nothing to do with science.
  • Post-mortem examinations are necessary to understand diseases.
  • It's violating a principle in medicine not to distinguish between "died with" versus "died of". You wouldn't pass the exam in medicine.
  • These containment measures are naive. They don't make sense at all. First they don't make sense, and second they always come too late if it's a very infectious disease. Allow it run, and after four weeks it's over. Prof. Knut Wittkowski said this, too.
  • Do protect the weak and the elderly, but that is understood. This is what we always do.
  • The mass media are a disaster.
  • People are dying because hospitals are a catastrophe. Doctors are furloughed now. If someone has a heart attack or a stroke, every minute counts.
He used the word "Einigkeit" very often. It's how the German national anthem starts: "Unity and justice and freedom". Finally he reminded of this. People can do this again.

Awesome. Thanks much for the summary!
 

RealNeat

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Jan 9, 2019
Messages
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Location
Minnesota
There was a very beautiful interview with Prof. Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi (in German):

  • We live in symbiosis with viruses and bacteria.
  • Not the best idea to try to fight the virus. Successful viruses don't kill the host.
  • First 'corona death' in Germany was a person who was in palliative care anyway.
  • There is cross immunity between different strains of corona viruses. That offers protection, though not 100%.
  • Covid-19 isn't the big killer.
  • What German Robert Koch Institute is doing has nothing to do with science.
  • Post-mortem examinations are necessary to understand diseases.
  • It's violating a principle in medicine not to distinguish between "died with" versus "died of". You wouldn't pass the exam in medicine.
  • These containment measures are naive. They don't make sense at all. First they don't make sense, and second they always come too late if it's a very infectious disease. Allow it run, and after four weeks it's over. Prof. Knut Wittkowski said this, too.
  • Do protect the weak and the elderly, but that is understood. This is what we always do.
  • The mass media are a disaster.
  • People are dying because hospitals are a catastrophe. Doctors are furloughed now. If someone has a heart attack or a stroke, every minute counts.
He used the word "Einigkeit" very often. It's how the German national anthem starts: "Unity and justice and freedom". Finally he reminded of this. People can do this again.
Do we not see an increase in all cause mortality in a short span of time?
 
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