My appetite is BACK after 4 years! A cocktail of Augmentin + Lactoferrin + Famotidine + S.boulardii cured my mystery gut issues (H. pylori?)

[Hermes]

@Blossom Thank you for your perspective.

 

[youngsinatra]

I suspect that most of my issues also stem from my messed-up digestive system. I have never done a comprehensive stool analysis as I thought that this field of research is still in baby shoes and not that helpful.

In the past I had a bad case of SIBO, that was helped by antimicrobials and antibiotics, but it always came back. I was stuck on keto for awhile. Eventually I was able to clear the persistent SIBO with a high dose of thiamine for a few months. But I still had (and have) very sensitive digestion. I can eat many things and feel well for multiple hours, until this food enters my large intestine. Then I get all kinds of psychological (depression, anhedonia, low-grade anxiety) and physiological symptoms (joint and muscle pain, nerve pains, headaches, GI pain, lowered body temperature, dizziness, blood shot eyes)

I mainly get digestive pains or cramps in the lower part of the gut (colon) roughly below the navel.

I suspect it’s pretty difficult to repopulate these very low laying parts of the GI tract. I suspect that once the GI flora is gone, it can only be replaced by FMT.

I‘m thinking about investigating water kefir as a probiotic. But maybe I‘m just damned to stay on a very restricted diet.

I‘m writing this as I‘m currently having a GI flare up after experimenting with a few prebiotic plant foods in the last 3 days. (black beans, oats, onions, corn)

Just got back on my „white diet“ which is my basic diet to feel good and have no symptoms. It’s basically white rice, chicken cooked in refined coconut oil, cooked/peeled fruits like apple, pear, banana, salt, mineral water. It’s basically all white food.

 

[Dutchie]

@youngsinatra Yup, same here...
I also suspect my lingering (digestive) issues are based in my colon and that that's also the cause of why I always have to strain when having a bowel movement. (and sadly the need for some (insoluble)fiber)
The lower belly,below the bellybutton, is also where I feel uncomfortable and when I get uncomfortable feelings, it only happens 4+ hours after eating or when I'm in bed.

 

[Blossom]

@youngsinatra, you could also make homemade yogurt with oat milk if you tolerate it (homemade). Let me know if you want a recipe.

 

[youngsinatra]

@youngsinatra, you could also make homemade yogurt with oat milk if you tolerate it (homemade). Let me know if you want a recipe.

Sure! Thanks

 

[Korven]

I suspect that most of my issues also stem from my messed-up digestive system. I have never done a comprehensive stool analysis as I thought that this field of research is still in baby shoes and not that helpful.

In the past I had a bad case of SIBO, that was helped by antimicrobials and antibiotics, but it always came back. I was stuck on keto for awhile. Eventually I was able to clear the persistent SIBO with a high dose of thiamine for a few months. But I still had (and have) very sensitive digestion. I can eat many things and feel well for multiple hours, until this food enters my large intestine. Then I get all kinds of psychological (depression, anhedonia, low-grade anxiety) and physiological symptoms (joint and muscle pain, nerve pains, headaches, GI pain, lowered body temperature, dizziness, blood shot eyes)

I mainly get digestive pains or cramps in the lower part of the gut (colon) roughly below the navel.

I suspect it’s pretty difficult to repopulate these very low laying parts of the GI tract. I suspect that once the GI flora is gone, it can only be replaced by FMT.

I‘m thinking about investigating water kefir as a probiotic. But maybe I‘m just damned to stay on a very restricted diet.

I‘m writing this as I‘m currently having a GI flare up after experimenting with a few prebiotic plant foods in the last 3 days. (black beans, oats, onions, corn)

Just got back on my „white diet“ which is my basic diet to feel good and have no symptoms. It’s basically white rice, chicken cooked in refined coconut oil, cooked/peeled fruits like apple, pear, banana, salt, mineral water. It’s basically all white food.

Yeah I also suspect it is difficult to get back bacteria after 'extinction events' due to restrictive diets, e.g. carnivore, or antibiotics. It's a bit of a gamble and one of the reasons why I was so hesitant to go down the route of antibiotics, I didn't want to kill any more good gut bacteria and potentially cause more issues.

Maybe check out the resources on cfsremission.com and @Tarmander posts/podcast on how to improve microbiome? The l. reuteri homemade yogurt seem like a great thing to try!

 

[Korven]

Revisiting the subject of low or high stomach acid:

Does someone know if there is any evidence supporting the idea that low stomach acid paradoxically causes heartburn, GERD, etc? Supposedly low stomach acid is a problem since it causes the the lower esophageal sphincter to become 'leaky'. The stomach acid then goes up into the esophagus, causing GERD.

It kind of makes sense I guess, but from what I can gather the only source for this claim is a book written by Dr. Wright. I haven't read this book myself, does he cite any studies?

Reason why I am asking is because I identified GERD/gastritis as the cause of my terrible chest pain. Since 2021 (possibly after having covid) I had been dealing with intermittent chest pain, went to the ER several times but there were no issues with my heart. I had an "aha" moment when famotidine got rid of the chest pain in just a few days - meaning, I didn't have heart pain, I had chest pain caused by stomach acid going up my throat and/or an esophageal ulcer.

Famotidine (H2 blocker) is better than PPIs but still not great to use long-term. I noticed when going up to 40 mg per day during this protocol that I was getting some pain in my throat and a weird sensation, maybe the acid suppression was causing bacteria or fungus to start to grow?

I guess my question is -- would it be a better strategy to take betaine HCL instead of famotidine if I notice any issues popping up again? I did try betaine HCL in 2020 but I can't say it helped me much back then. Maybe it would be more helpful now, taken consistently over a couple of months.

Rosacea (which I suffer from) is connected to both H. pylori and low stomach acid, that could be another clue.

 

[Blossom]

Sure! Thanks

I used this recipe with gelatin, a different probiotic than the one she recommends as my starter and did the longer fermentation time of 36 hours at 106 degrees Fahrenheit per the Super Gut book.

How to Make OAT MILK YOGURT (Instant Pot or any yogurt maker)

How to Make Oat Milk Yogurt is an easy dairy-free recipe that's gentle to digest and nutritious. This recipe is Gluten-free, Vegan and Ancestral. Use any yogurt maker or your Instant Pot for this probiotic-rich, creamy yogurt recipe.

eatbeautiful.net

 

[Peachy]

@Korven do you have any tips for how to eat when your appetite is down?

 

[Korven]

@Korven do you have any tips for how to eat when your appetite is down?

Yes!

A couple of things that helped (a little):

• Try to maintain whatever appetite/hunger/digestive fire you have. For me that meant eating only 3 square meals and no snacking in between. Maybe others are different but if I ate something before meals I would have zero appetite.
• Waiting 1 hour before eating in the morning. Seems to help a lot for some reason.
• As a rule of thumb, eating lighter meals, maybe chicken/fish and white rice and well-cooked vegetables. Anything that contained too much fat, or giant portions of starches,etc, would make me not want to eat again for 10+ hours.
• Smaller meals better than bigger meals.
• Seasonings, spices to make food more appealing does help stimulate appetite. BUT my sensitive stomach could not handle sauces and spices so not good for me personally. Preparing foods in delicious ways, e.g. making beef burgers on the grill is much more appealing to me than cooking it in a pan, so it helped with appetite.
• No snacking after dinner (so I can have some appetite the next morning)
• Folate and cyproheptadine work as appetite stimulants.

And of course all the rest about avoiding endotoxins, gut transit time, blah blah blah (you probably know all this already).

To be honest I didn't follow this advice always. Sometimes I just gave up trying to be hungry and force fed myself. But generally speaking it's prudent to not overeat and try to maintain whatever small hunger you have, than to gorge on food and not want to eat for the rest of the day. As always, just my 2 cents, I'm sure others are different.

 

[Korven]

I should also add that sometimes, though not always, there's a trade-off between what is "optimal" digestion-wise and what will make you hungry.

Often I found I had zero desire for another boring meal of beef/chicken and rice or whatever. In that situation it may be better to eat fatty, greasy food that stokes digestive fire, or to season your meal and have some fun eating (and deal with the rosacea breakouts from spicy food later LOL)

 

[frannybananny]

I should also add that sometimes, though not always, there's a trade-off between what is "optimal" digestion-wise and what will make you hungry.

Often I found I had zero desire for another boring meal of beef/chicken and rice or whatever. In that situation it may be better to eat fatty, greasy food that stokes digestive fire, or to season your meal and have some fun eating (and deal with the rosacea breakouts from spicy food later LOL)

Have you ever tried Nigella Sativa/Black Cumin Seed in a regimen to restore your appetite? It is known to help with many many disorders including digestion and I am starting to take it to reduce possible candida.

Black cumin (Nigella sativa) and its constituent (thymoquinone): a review on antimicrobial effects

Abstract​

Nigella sativa seeds have wide therapeutic effects and have been reported to have significant effects against many ailments such as skin diseases, jaundice, gastrointestinal problems, anorexia, conjunctivitis, dyspepsia, rheumatism, diabetes, hypertension, intrinsic hemorrhage, paralysis, amenorrhea, anorexia, asthma, cough, bronchitis, headache, fever, influenza and eczema. Thymoquinone (TQ) is one of the most active constituent and has different beneficial properties. Focus on antimicrobial effects, different extracts of N. sativa as well as TQ, have a broad antimicrobial spectrum including Gram-negative, Gram-positive bacteria, viruses, parasites, schistosoma and fungi. The effectiveness of N. sativa seeds and TQ is variable and depends on species of target microorganisms. The present review paper tries to describe all antimicrobial activities that have been carried out by various researchers.

 

[Korven]

Have you ever tried Nigella Sativa/Black Cumin Seed in a regimen to restore your appetite? It is known to help with many many disorders including digestion and I am starting to take it to reduce possible candida.

Black cumin (Nigella sativa) and its constituent (thymoquinone): a review on antimicrobial effects

Abstract​

Nigella sativa seeds have wide therapeutic effects and have been reported to have significant effects against many ailments such as skin diseases, jaundice, gastrointestinal problems, anorexia, conjunctivitis, dyspepsia, rheumatism, diabetes, hypertension, intrinsic hemorrhage, paralysis, amenorrhea, anorexia, asthma, cough, bronchitis, headache, fever, influenza and eczema. Thymoquinone (TQ) is one of the most active constituent and has different beneficial properties. Focus on antimicrobial effects, different extracts of N. sativa as well as TQ, have a broad antimicrobial spectrum including Gram-negative, Gram-positive bacteria, viruses, parasites, schistosoma and fungi. The effectiveness of N. sativa seeds and TQ is variable and depends on species of target microorganisms. The present review paper tries to describe all antimicrobial activities that have been carried out by various researchers.

Thanks for the recommendation, I have some black cumin seeds I can try!

My appetite is still very much improved - just finished off a 1500 kcal meal and I feel full but not overly stuffed. Hoping that this lasts, it is wonderful to have my appetite back!

 

[brightside]

Something went terribly wrong with my health back in 2018-2019.

The worst symptoms that have been plaguing me:

Constant nausea and a "sickness feeling", wonky digestion, extreme fatigue, unintentional weight loss, chest pain on and off, exercise intolerance/CFS-like symptoms (post exercise malaise), rosacea, red dry eyes, breaking out in hives... and NO APPETITE.

I still don't know why I got so sick. It may have been due to untreated celiac disease, or a stint of carnivore in 2018 which wiped out my good gut bacteria, or a case of food poisoning from drinking raw milk in 2019. Or maybe all of them? Or bad luck?

Anyways I have managed to improve about 90% through different diet and supplement experiments.

However - what I couldn't seem to figure out was the complete loss of appetite. It was driving me nuts never being hungry or wanting to eat. I had to force feed myself to not lose any more weight.

I started suspecting SIBO and/or H.pylori as culprits. Natural antimicrobials like mastic gum, Pylopass, lactoferrin, kefir, oregano oil, etc did help some, but it was never a full cure.

So I decided I was going to go after the gut critters with a combo of Augmentin + Lactoferrin + Famotidine + S.boulardii.

Why this cocktail?

• Augmentin (amoxicillin + clavulanic acid) 500/125 x 2 daily

Basically to kill the bugs! Augmentin contains clavulanic acid which is an beta-lactamase inhibitor, preventing drug-resistant bacteria from destroying amoxicillin.

• Lactoferrin 250 mg x 2 daily

I had already been taking this for 1 year prior and seen awesome results. Chelates iron and steals it from bugs. Powerful antimicrobial and anti-inflammatory agent, most importantly has a synergistic effect when taken together with antibiotics:



• Famotidine 20 mg x 2 daily

Raises intragastric pH in order to wipe out H pylori

• S. boulardii 5 billion CFU x 2 daily

Reduces risk of C.diff infection

I herx'ed pretty badly the first couple days (but really nothing in comparison to the years of suffering I've gone through) but managed to endure 8 days. Knock on wood it's been a few days since doing this protocol and I have been consistently hungry for my meals, which is a wonderful feeling!

This is not medical advice. Try at your own risk. If you start this and haven't taken lactoferrin before I would suspect the herx symptoms would be awful.

Cheers, I just wanted to share this if someone else has similiar mystery gut issues and loss of appetite.

Aeyyy! Good for you man!

I know that feeling of getting your appetite back when you were missing it for so long. Eating is so amazing! haha

Did you have any kind of fungal flare ups during this? I try to take potassium iodide during any ABX courses, but I'm not sure if thats very effective standalone.

 

[Peachy]

Yes!

A couple of things that helped (a little):

• Try to maintain whatever appetite/hunger/digestive fire you have. For me that meant eating only 3 square meals and no snacking in between. Maybe others are different but if I ate something before meals I would have zero appetite.
• Waiting 1 hour before eating in the morning. Seems to help a lot for some reason.
• As a rule of thumb, eating lighter meals, maybe chicken/fish and white rice and well-cooked vegetables. Anything that contained too much fat, or giant portions of starches,etc, would make me not want to eat again for 10+ hours.
• Smaller meals better than bigger meals.
• Seasonings, spices to make food more appealing does help stimulate appetite. BUT my sensitive stomach could not handle sauces and spices so not good for me personally. Preparing foods in delicious ways, e.g. making beef burgers on the grill is much more appealing to me than cooking it in a pan, so it helped with appetite.
• No snacking after dinner (so I can have some appetite the next morning)
• Folate and cyproheptadine work as appetite stimulants.

And of course all the rest about avoiding endotoxins, gut transit time, blah blah blah (you probably know all this already).

To be honest I didn't follow this advice always. Sometimes I just gave up trying to be hungry and force fed myself. But generally speaking it's prudent to not overeat and try to maintain whatever small hunger you have, than to gorge on food and not want to eat for the rest of the day. As always, just my 2 cents, I'm sure others are different.

This is excellent! I like the idea of maintaining whatever digestive fire you have. Hadn’t really thought of it that way though I have had success with some of the tips (light meals, seasoning, etc). Soup always works for me - I crave it and can eat a lot (it’s lower cal but at least doesn’t feel like force feeding).

Oddly, without changing anything, I was hungry all day yesterday for the first time in a long while and crammed in a ton of nutrition. It was great! I’d forgotten how it feels.

 

[Korven]

Aeyyy! Good for you man!

I know that feeling of getting your appetite back when you were missing it for so long. Eating is so amazing! haha

Did you have any kind of fungal flare ups during this? I try to take potassium iodide during any ABX courses, but I'm not sure if thats very effective standalone.

Yay me (us)! Indeed, eating is amazing.

No, I didn't notice any fungal issues. It's possible that S.boulardii helped mitigate that - it's a friendly yeast that blocks other pathogenic yeast/bacteria from populating the gut.

 

[Korven]

This is excellent! I like the idea of maintaining whatever digestive fire you have. Hadn’t really thought of it that way though I have had success with some of the tips (light meals, seasoning, etc). Soup always works for me - I crave it and can eat a lot (it’s lower cal but at least doesn’t feel like force feeding).

Oddly, without changing anything, I was hungry all day yesterday for the first time in a long while and crammed in a ton of nutrition. It was great! I’d forgotten how it feels.

Ohh soup would be a great idea! Maybe a chicken broth thingy with lots of natural collagen, some shredded chicken meat and well-cooked veggies or rice noodles.

That's great :) I find having a healthy appetite does make a big difference to your mood and outlook -- life becomes more difficult somehow when your never hungry and can't enjoy meals properly.

 

[Korven]

Also if I would do this "protocol" again I would probably skip the famotidine.

Taking 40 mg famotidine per day you will inevitably get some re-bound acid hypersecretion for a while afterwards. Not nearly as bad as after stopping PPIs but still bothersome. And suppressing stomach acid is rarely a good thing to do, as mentioned it felt like I got a sore throat/infection even while on Augmentin. It cleared up instantly after stopping famotidine.

The one utility it has is that it will wipe out H. pylori together with the antibiotics and lactoferrin.

 

[ursidae]

@ursidae, there are apparently lots of false negatives. It’s my understanding that in adults these days (at least in the US) a blood test for antibodies is enough to get an official diagnosis. Here’s what I get tested periodically to ensure I’m not getting trace amounts of gluten that could wreck my health. View attachment 53126

thank you, this will be useful in the future

 

[Korven]

thank you, this will be useful in the future

I have discovered that you can make decent tasting GF pancakes with sorghum flour (I used milk and eggs, but it should be possible to substitute with some plant milk for dairy free version). I find oat flour pancakes are liking eating bricks, buckwheat tastes bad.

...In case you need some pancakes to fill the gluten void.