Scalp Massages To Stop/halt Hairloss 2020?

[ExD]

That would mean dht is bad. Users in this forum don't like that idea though.

Hormones aren't good or bad

Tissue DHT is elevated in balding scalps and serum DHT is lower in balding circulations, from what I remember? Maybe it's the other way around, but what this suggests to me is that DHT is serving it's purpose, but when there is chronic stress, that purpose begins to have a causative effect - like rain putting out a forest fire...but then it turns into a flood.

It would also suggest that MPB generally have less DHT than non-balding counterparts, suggesting it's probably better to have it than not.

 

[Zigzag]

Cope
Also high local dht as a result of chronic inflammation is not the same as high serum

Tell that to fincels. Until there's another valid route to stop the MPB they will forever claim that "DHT BAD"

 

[Ableton]

Tell that to fincels. Until there's another valid route to stop the MPB they will forever claim that "DHT BAD"

Another valid route to stop mpb is what I have presented I other threads (for me)
Mainly
Fixing posture
Fixing temps through cal increase
Food emphasis on peating:milk, oj, seafood, liver and so on
I use cypro to fix gut
Aspirin
Sun

i stopped my mpb. But i want regrowth. Infinitely harder to get

 

[ExD]

Tell that to fincels. Until there's another valid route to stop the MPB they will forever claim that "DHT BAD"

Is there any actual evidence that DHT directly affects scalp hair? From what I know it actually stimulates hair growth but again, if it is inhibiting tissue inflammation in the scalp it is possible that it also inhibits blood supply to nearby tissues, and hair follicles.

 

[Ableton]

Is there any actual evidence that DHT directly affects scalp hair? From what I know it actually stimulates hair growth but again, if it is inhibiting tissue inflammation in the scalp it is possible that it also inhibits blood supply to nearby tissues, and hair follicles.

All I know is that I am a high dht being who regrows crazy hair on fin while having crazy sides
I think lowering dht is basically an unhealthy way to get more hair, be that directly or indirectly
There are other ways, especially lowering local dht, maybe through fixing posture

i believe we want dht
But not for hair. I think this is cope to be honest

 

[Infarouge]

I think the key is receptor sensitivity. Prepubescent children with low androgens and brain development have terrific hair and rarely exhibit hair loss. DHT may have growth promoting properties when used in a drug like manner but can lead to dependance in superphysiologal doses above several mg. Perhaps by starving the local tissue of DHT, finasteride and other androgen blockers like ketoconazole may reset the local androgen receptor sensitivity while simultaneously increasing systemic DHT. Topical finasteride has been demonstrated effective especially with microneedling. Combining topical scalp fin with massage while inverting supercharges the effect.

 

[Zigzag]

I think the key is receptor sensitivity. Prepubescent children with low androgens and brain development have terrific hair and rarely exhibit hair loss. DHT may have growth promoting properties when used in a drug like manner but can lead to dependance in superphysiologal doses above several mg. Perhaps by starving the local tissue of DHT, finasteride and other androgen blockers like ketoconazole may reset the local androgen receptor sensitivity while simultaneously increasing systemic DHT. Topical finasteride has been demonstrated effective especially with microneedling. Combining topical scalp fin with massage while inverting supercharges the effect.

Unfortunately even if topical, fin will go systemic.

 

[Ableton]

I think the key is receptor sensitivity. Prepubescent children with low androgens and brain development have terrific hair and rarely exhibit hair loss. DHT may have growth promoting properties when used in a drug like manner but can lead to dependance in superphysiologal doses above several mg. Perhaps by starving the local tissue of DHT, finasteride and other androgen blockers like ketoconazole may reset the local androgen receptor sensitivity while simultaneously increasing systemic DHT. Topical finasteride has been demonstrated effective especially with microneedling. Combining topical scalp fin with massage while inverting supercharges the effect.

Makes sense, sadly.
But is not helpful

 

[Infarouge]

Unfortunately even if topical, fin will go systemic.

Yes but in minuscule amounts. 200mcg finasteride was found to have near total DHT inhibition, two orders a magnitude lower than the 5mg oral dose. When used topically 200mcg is enough to see consistent results with minimal systemic effect.

In all studies, there was significant decrease in the rate of hair loss, increase in total and terminal hair counts, and positive hair growth assessment with topical FNS. Both scalp and plasma DHT significantly decreased with application of topical FNS, however no changes in serum testosterone were noted.

A Systematic Review of Topical Finasteride in the Treatment of Androgenetic Alopecia in Men and Women

Regardless of the ultimate systemic bio-availability of topical fin, the tissue distribution will rapidly drop the further away from the sight of administration. The "short sharp shock" of topical administration may have a receptor resetting effect at the site of administration which will transiently maintain a high concentration.

In otherwords, applying topical fin then immediately hanging upside down like a vampire baboon, while wearing a LLLT helmet or vigorously massaging the scalp would be a reasonable strategem to attack the evolutionary moster that is MPB.

 

[rr1]

This. Posture is one of the most, if not the most effective framework that explains mpb imo.
if I get a son I will get him into ballet, yoga or gymnastics. Idgaf.
I literally have never seen a bald men who got into any of these at a young age pre mpb, who has mpb. I think it’s hardly possible

If you have a son, get him into swimming. It will take care of the posture aspect and the the C02 aspect. Every swimmer I know has a great body, great posture and great skin and hair due to posture and proper breathing their whole life. Also make sure he breathes through his nose and has good oral posture, and doesn't develop allergies.

For what it's worth, I also agree that posture is a big factor in balding. I'm not saying it's the biggest factor, but definitely one of the top 3. I'm into gaming, and I'm telling you, you will struggle to find a professional gamer that has good hair, due to their chronic forward head posture and anterior pelvic tilt. I believe that these people can still have good hair, but as soon as their body is put under any type of stress or if there is any inflammation - be it their diet, or chronic over exercising etc. - they will start to lose their hair.

In my experience, fixing my posture has been one of the biggest factors in halting my hair loss. I started sleeping on the floor with no pillow around 2 months ago. Once you do this, you will very quickly notice where your weak points are in posture. Straight away I could feel tightness in my hip flexors every morning when I would wake along with intense tightness in my occipitalis muscle and sternocleidomastoid muscle. Doing hip flexor stretches and massaging these muscles every morning when I wake up makes me feel 110%, like I did when I was a kid. I can turn my neck and there is no tension, no clicking in shoulders and my scalp moves more freely, I feel 2 inches taller.

The people who say there is no connection, please realize that everything we do in our lives has some impact on our hair, be it positive or negative. Hair loss is not simple. In my opinion, one could go through a checklist of 100 different things to try and solve their hair loss, and make no progress, because it is different for everyone.

 

[Mossy]

This posture perspective is interesting, and correcting posture could only be a good thing, but like others, I have an anecdotal scenario to share.

My father has done yoga for decades—ever since my eyes could remember first seeing him. Including the specific poses being discussed: legs crossed when seated, corpse pose, and head stands. All for long periods. He has good posture—better than me. But, he never handled stress well. He’s quite bald and started relatively young—late 20’s, early 30’s.

Ultimately, I believe stress is the culprit. I realize poor posture is stress, as is fighting against poor posture, via muscles, as discussed. But stress, regardless of the cause, I feel is the culprit.

Even so, I see it as a good thing to correct APT and any bad posture issues.

 

[Ableton]

This posture perspective is interesting, and correcting posture could only be a good thing, but like others, I have an anecdotal scenario to share.

My father has done yoga for decades—ever since my eyes could remember first seeing him. Including the specific poses being discussed: legs crossed when seated, corpse pose, and head stands. All for long periods. He has good posture—better than me. But, he never handled stress well. He’s quite bald and started relatively young—late 20’s, early 30’s.

Ultimately, I believe stress is the culprit. I realize poor posture is stress, as is fighting against poor posture, via muscles, as discussed. But stress, regardless of the cause, I feel is the culprit.

Even so, I see it as a good thing to correct APT and any bad posture issues.

yeah you are probably right
I see it like this other guy as probably a top 3 culprit for males though

anyways, I randomly decided to sleep on the floor last night although I only made it for like 5 hrs, then woke up and went to bed

spine is straight af, when I sit literally my whole spine touches the back of my chair without me putting effort into doing that
i feel 2 cm taller lol. got to measure that.

any1 knows what those asian mats are called that they sleep on on some parts? I figured that might be nicer than a yoga mat. and without anything, the cold creeps up

edit: its a tatami. might get one tbh, but wonder if they are hard enough

 

[rr1]

yeah you are probably right
I see it like this other guy as probably a top 3 culprit for males though

anyways, I randomly decided to sleep on the floor last night although I only made it for like 5 hrs, then woke up and went to bed

spine is straight af, when I sit literally my whole spine touches the back of my chair without me putting effort into doing that
i feel 2 cm taller lol. got to measure that.

any1 knows what those asian mats are called that they sleep on on some parts? I figured that might be nicer than a yoga mat. and without anything, the cold creeps up

edit: its a tatami. might get one tbh, but wonder if they are hard enough

If it makes you feel any better, the first time I slept on the floor I only lasted 2 or 3 hours. But after a week it just becomes normal, now I actually like it. Maybe because I forgot what a bed actually feels like lol (I do know that it was quite old, and definitely way too plush).

 

[Ableton]

If it makes you feel any better, the first time I slept on the floor I only lasted 2 or 3 hours. But after a week it just becomes normal, now I actually like it. Maybe because I forgot what a bed actually feels like lol (I do know that it was quite old, and definitely way too plush).

I will definitely stick to it as well. I ordered a tatami to sleep on

 

[JDreamer]

Hormones aren't good or bad

Tissue DHT is elevated in balding scalps and serum DHT is lower in balding circulations, from what I remember? Maybe it's the other way around, but what this suggests to me is that DHT is serving it's purpose, but when there is chronic stress, that purpose begins to have a causative effect - like rain putting out a forest fire...but then it turns into a flood.

It would also suggest that MPB generally have less DHT than non-balding counterparts, suggesting it's probably better to have it than not.

Seems like common sense, but I hadn't thought about it that way. I know on my last hormone profile a while back, I had slightly low DHT and bottom of the range estradiol. In lieu of your comments that must mean a lot of it is in my tissues, especially the scalp.

 

[JDreamer]

If you have a son, get him into swimming. It will take care of the posture aspect and the the C02 aspect. Every swimmer I know has a great body, great posture and great skin and hair due to posture and proper breathing their whole life. Also make sure he breathes through his nose and has good oral posture, and doesn't develop allergies.

For what it's worth, I also agree that posture is a big factor in balding. I'm not saying it's the biggest factor, but definitely one of the top 3. I'm into gaming, and I'm telling you, you will struggle to find a professional gamer that has good hair, due to their chronic forward head posture and anterior pelvic tilt. I believe that these people can still have good hair, but as soon as their body is put under any type of stress or if there is any inflammation - be it their diet, or chronic over exercising etc. - they will start to lose their hair.

In my experience, fixing my posture has been one of the biggest factors in halting my hair loss. I started sleeping on the floor with no pillow around 2 months ago. Once you do this, you will very quickly notice where your weak points are in posture. Straight away I could feel tightness in my hip flexors every morning when I would wake along with intense tightness in my occipitalis muscle and sternocleidomastoid muscle. Doing hip flexor stretches and massaging these muscles every morning when I wake up makes me feel 110%, like I did when I was a kid. I can turn my neck and there is no tension, no clicking in shoulders and my scalp moves more freely, I feel 2 inches taller.

The people who say there is no connection, please realize that everything we do in our lives has some impact on our hair, be it positive or negative. Hair loss is not simple. In my opinion, one could go through a checklist of 100 different things to try and solve their hair loss, and make no progress, because it is different for everyone.

Duly noted.

My posture has been an issue for a while and I blame the corporate life. My shoulders are slouched. I notice my right shoulder often dips when I do any presses in the gym. when I stand I heavily favor my right leg. The irony is my right eyelid droops lower then my left and my right temple has see the hair loss a lot worse then my left.

It's really weird to say this, but my side profile is different when you look at my face from the left vs. the right. I'm often mortified when I see it in pictures. Oh and my sinuses are terrible. I've become quite the shallow mouth breather over the years - which isn't good considering that I avidly work out. There's also quite a bit of tension I feel in my hips and in my forehead. It's like I can't stop it from tensing up.

 

[mrchibbs]

Duly noted.

My posture has been an issue for a while and I blame the corporate life. My shoulders are slouched. I notice my right shoulder often dips when I do any presses in the gym. when I stand I heavily favor my right leg. The irony is my right eyelid droops lower then my left and my right temple has see the hair loss a lot worse then my left.

It's really weird to say this, but my side profile is different when you look at my face from the left vs. the right. I'm often mortified when I see it in pictures. Oh and my sinuses are terrible. I've become quite the shallow mouth breather over the years - which isn't good considering that I avidly work out. There's also quite a bit of tension I feel in my hips and in my forehead. It's like I can't stop it from tensing up.

Forgive me for asking such a basic (and blasphemous?!) question, but how is your thyroid function? (i.e. morning temperatures)

 

[JDreamer]

Forgive me for asking such a basic (and blasphemous?!) question, but how is your thyroid function? (i.e. morning temperatures)

In terms of which tests? I honestly have been really lazy about recording body temps, but I will say my feet are commonly cold. I was laughing the other day because it was 95 degrees out and I was sitting in the living room with my patio door open. It was starting to get hot in the house and yet my feet were still cold.

For years my TSH has always tested above 2 and has gotten as high as 3.6. Free T3 has commonly been elevated. I haven't had any panels done in a while - was just getting tired of battling with various GP's over what I'd like to see run and didn't want to pay out of pocket. Speaking of which, I'm ready to do that - but not sure of the best route to go i.e. blood or hair or both.

 

[mrchibbs]

In terms of which tests? I honestly have been really lazy about recording body temps, but I will say my feet are commonly cold. I was laughing the other day because it was 95 degrees out and I was sitting in the living room with my patio door open. It was starting to get hot in the house and yet my feet were still cold.

For years my TSH has always tested above 2 and has gotten as high as 3.6. Free T3 has commonly been elevated. I haven't had any panels done in a while - was just getting tired of battling with various GP's over what I'd like to see run and didn't want to pay out of pocket. Speaking of which, I'm ready to do that - but not sure of the best route to go i.e. blood or hair or both.

There you go. It's *impossible* to fully relax muscles and tissue without fixing thyroid function (in part because we can't retain magnesium in a low thyroid state). You TSH is much too high, and would be easy to suppress with frequent T3 dosage. But forget the tests, you really need to nail this down and temperature/pulse are the only diagnostic tool you need. Don't go crazy looking for other things or complexifying your issues, focus on your raising your thyroid function to optimal levels (via temperature and pulse)

 

[Ableton]

Duly noted.

My posture has been an issue for a while and I blame the corporate life. My shoulders are slouched. I notice my right shoulder often dips when I do any presses in the gym. when I stand I heavily favor my right leg. The irony is my right eyelid droops lower then my left and my right temple has see the hair loss a lot worse then my left.

It's really weird to say this, but my side profile is different when you look at my face from the left vs. the right. I'm often mortified when I see it in pictures. Oh and my sinuses are terrible. I've become quite the shallow mouth breather over the years - which isn't good considering that I avidly work out. There's also quite a bit of tension I feel in my hips and in my forehead. It's like I can't stop it from tensing up.

Sounds like me
Had sinus operation done. Am mewing now. Things get better. Maybe cypro helps with sinus too, since allergies are at play
I am shocked how quickly im fixing my posture right now through sleeping on the floor and having a daily workout adressing it for line 30 minutes
My apt is almost gone
When I sit my spine covers the whole back of the chair
It’s not that difficult to fix
The eyelid thing indicates to me that you should do neck stretching. I do that as well

when you hit up the gym, **** lifting. Stretch, work on your posture
Then lift. I go for an hour and basically do stretching and lower back stuff for 45 mins as well as some fascia lengthening. 15 minutes lifting, thats it
Lifting is already different for me and now I can tell my lifting posture was garbage. With the posture I had it wasn’t possible to have good form

my forehead pressure is significantly reduced and i am seeing minor regrowth in my temples

you already know your issues. Think them through the end (like stop lifting!) and apply

at worst you gain life quality only