PFS Sufferer. I Don't Know How I Missed Such A Risk

[TubZy]

The Androsterone from Idealabs is 1mg per drop, whereas the R-Andro is 100Mg per pill... it's not cost effective to use the drops if you're aiming for the dosages I'm doing... However, I'm currently researching the DMSO version to see if any topical use case can hit a receptor directly with 3 to 5mg daily... that is not the same as R-Andro at 600Mgs a day... nipple and actual penis i'm researching... similar to the pansterone on the scrotum which was amazing...

The clenching, for me, was from the high dosage of 5aDHP... I haven't had it since steadily using 3 or 4 drops... I'll touch a little more on this via PM... but I believe what you're describing regarding the pheromones we release and I believe it returned when i was using Pan... don't worry about this being a weird convo with a stranger... I've asked some guys on here about their junk too... can't do that in a bar or at work, right?? lol

In terms of keeping up, pro hormones should be cycled... so 6 weeks followed by 4 weeks of PCT and then off of anything Pro hormone related for approximately equal time... 6 to 10 weeks or so... the thing about DHT and 5aR is, there's almost a positive feedback from both to keep levels up... so boosting DHT then boosts 5aR activity and eventually, our bodies are supposed to get back to normal... Now I can't be sure 100% because i'm in the midst of a recovery attempt... but ideally, no we won't need pro hormones after our bodies return to stasis... however, it could take 2 or 3 cycles to be back as was the case with CDsNuts... some of the herbs, however, like pine pollen or tribulus , these may benefit us in other ways in the future despite PFS recovery... but ideally, we shouldn't need to take stuff to feel ok... though we may want take stuff to feel better... I think recovery is just that... recovered to our healthy former self which may or may not have been perfectly healthy but we weren't bedridden and won't be if we miss a tribulus dose...

Along the same lines, we may (and I'm speculating here) be extra sensitive to certain things in our future... I would avoid pumpkin seeds, saw palmetto and pygeum for example... and this might be forever... even white rice has a negative affect on PFS sufferers for now so I don't know when it'll be safe to eat it again... so check any pills you may take, vitamins, anything... and check to make sure nothing can have a DHT or 5aR blocking affect...

Hope this helps... I typically write better but i'm falling asleep... let me know how you're doing

have you considered stacking diamant with R-andro/androsterone?

 

[JoeKool]

@coppersocks thank you... i think i needed the boost here... feeling worse today after reading what Haidut posted about the nerve damage... I'm trying TB500 for that...

@TubZy Hey TubZy, no I hadn't considered it but are you suggesting it'll help for next round? I'll research it next

 

[coppersocks]

Out of curiosity, why do you recommend diamant to go along side Pan and Andro Tubzy? I actually have a bottle of it and was using it intermittently but have stopped taking any prohormones or research chems until my andro comes. I will consider adding it to that stack but I'm wary about suppressing aromatase too much like I think I did with the Pan, Vit k and 5a_dHP combo and it killed my libido dead. Sorry about the thread hijak Joe!

EDIT: FYI Joe - Just want to add that Diamant definitely enhanced my mood or at the very least - helped stabilize it. Not really sure what else it did. I found adding about 6-7 drops to each inside elbow was as effective as the full dose orally.

 

[TubZy]

Out of curiosity, why do you recommend diamant to go along side Pan and Andro Tubzy? I actually have a bottle of it and was using it intermittently but have stopped taking any prohormones or research chems until my andro comes. I will consider adding it to that stack but I'm wary about suppressing aromatase too much like I think I did with the Pan, Vit k and 5a_dHP combo and it killed my libido dead. Sorry about the thread hijak Joe!

EDIT: FYI Joe - Just want to add that Diamant definitely enhanced my mood or at the very least - helped stabilize it. Not really sure what else it did. I found adding about 6-7 drops to each inside elbow was as effective as the full dose orally.

It essentially acts like DMSO but better by stabilizing the cells while at the same time increase the half life and uptake of whatever supplement you take with it. It is also promotes dopamine as well on its own. So taking 5a-dhp and diamant at the same exact time should significantly increase the effectiveness b/c diamant can cross the BBB easily. I haven't personally tried it yet, but many positive reports. So you can really use any supplement (andro, pansterone, etc.) with the diamant and it will increase the effectiveness of it especially for PFS people since 5AR was shown to be downregulated in the brain from the last two studies.

 

[Cydanic]

It essentially acts like DMSO but better by stabilizing the cells while at the same time increase the half life and uptake of whatever supplement you take with it. It is also promotes dopamine as well on its own. So taking 5a-dhp and diamant at the same exact time should significantly increase the effectiveness b/c diamant can cross the BBB easily. I haven't personally tried it yet, but many positive reports. So you can really use any supplement (andro, pansterone, etc.) with the diamant and it will increase the effectiveness of it especially for PFS people since 5AR was shown to be downregulated in the brain from the last two studies.

Wow. Seems like this could be huge for us PFS folks. I saw you ordered some a while back...What's kept you from trying it out?

 

[TubZy]

Wow. Seems like this could be huge for us PFS folks. I saw you ordered some a while back...What's kept you from trying it out?

Yes I have it now, I haven't tried it yet because I have been on high dose caffeine and niacinamide with very good results.
I'm mildy scared that taking large amounts of caffeine with the diamant can cause a giant stress response due to the potentatiating and half life extending of substances. But I may experiment with it now probably end of this week due to the increase in positive reports.

For me, it can also be a life saver because I can't use DMSO due to allergies and diamant can do a lot of the things DMSO maybe even much more.

 

[Cydanic]

Yes I have it now, I haven't tried it yet because I have been on high dose caffeine and niacinamide with very good results.
I'm mildy scared that taking large amounts of caffeine with the diamant can cause a giant stress response due to the potentatiating and half life extending of substances. But I may experiment with it now probably end of this week due to the increase in positive reports.

For me, it can also be a life saver because I can't use DMSO due to allergies and diamant can do a lot of the things DMSO maybe even much more.

What dose caffeine and niacinamide?

 

[TubZy]

What dose caffeine and niacinamide?

600/500

 

[JoeKool]

Quick update... I have been feeling decent... I've noticed something really good with a herb combo... Muira Puama & Catauba Bark together seems to bring blood to my penis because it responds and looks much more healthier... I'm doing that combo amongst my normal regime twice a day.

Currently, major progress in 'retracting' feeling... no libido yet but appearances are improving dramatically from where I once was... so overall progress...

I haven't decided on diamant yet... as i'm pretty over supplemented at this time... and need to begin cycling off and have a clean week or two... I did grind up Sorghum Seeds and began 1/2 cup daily in my protein shakes... supposed to increase 5ar activity and I want to say, I have noticed better feelings...

Still, not out of the woods yet... but I feel better than the one bad day I had last week and have had several good ones in a row so I wanted to post... The Muira is listed as nerve regenerative and , after reading Haidut's latest article on PFS, I'm happy it's in my regiment ...

Seriously tho, this forum is the best group of ppl someone can find... especially in this condition...

 

[sladerunner69]

@coppersocks Hey Man, I think the 5aDHP has some trial & error experimentation to find what's right... So far, my best results are 3 to 4 drops orally around 6 to 7PM with my last 200Mgs R-Andro & 500Mg Nacinimide ... I typically workout then and have a pre-workout... but my aim, if this sounds right, was to have the positive mood affects (gaba agonism) during sleep to help return nocturnal erections similar to a benzo... to which, i believe it's working...

I stopped the Pan for now but I promise you, 4 drops on the scrotum and you're libido will return... I killed my libido with an Anti-Estrogen but that's expected... that's the least of my concern and will come back quick... so the Pansterone will help you there...

I think you first have to find the right time and dosage of 5aDHP but the only choices of time seem to be late morning or early evening... at least that's what I've surmised... 11am or 6pm... when I went high dosage at 15mg, I got a clenching feeling in my scrotum and genitals but i'm also using R-Andro... I assume you didn't feel such a feeling at 15mg?

What's your high dose of oral preg look like? 150MGs in the morning perhaps ?


1000mg L-Tyrosine will help with brain fog... you won't be disappointed ... let me know how you're doing... let me know the other suggestions you've gotten elsewhere too... I'm always listening...

Fellow pfs sufferer here with a few questions,

What is r-andro? Similar to androsterone? I have had okay results with 1 or 2 drops androsterone but it can deplete estrogen quite rapidly and elave me feeling lethargic and irritable if taken with too many other supplements.

Do you really take 4 drops pansterone? That seems like a ton. I can do one drop and begin to feel weird.

Do you drink coffee or take caffiene? Seems to help restore thyroid and progesterone function, or at least work like a mimic.

When taking 1g of l-tyrosine did you ever feel like it increased your serotonin too high? That is my concern.

 

[sladerunner69]

Quick update... I have been feeling decent... I've noticed something really good with a herb combo... Muira Puama & Catauba Bark together seems to bring blood to my penis because it responds and looks much more healthier... I'm doing that combo amongst my normal regime twice a day.

Currently, major progress in 'retracting' feeling... no libido yet but appearances are improving dramatically from where I once was... so overall progress...

I haven't decided on diamant yet... as i'm pretty over supplemented at this time... and need to begin cycling off and have a clean week or two... I did grind up Sorghum Seeds and began 1/2 cup daily in my protein shakes... supposed to increase 5ar activity and I want to say, I have noticed better feelings...

Still, not out of the woods yet... but I feel better than the one bad day I had last week and have had several good ones in a row so I wanted to post... The Muira is listed as nerve regenerative and , after reading Haidut's latest article on PFS, I'm happy it's in my regiment ...

Seriously tho, this forum is the best group of ppl someone can find... especially in this condition...

Absolutely this forum offers the best, real solutions. It's a shame it remains almost unheard of. We should begin posting on propeciahelp to get the word out. But then again sometimes I feel like those sad sacks enjoy wallowing in their own misery.

Anyways, I have tried sorghum flour myself to no avail because it made me highly irritable, borderline psychotic. That as a few years ago but i hesitate to try it again and risk becoming clinically ill. Please let me know how sorghum treats you long term though, perhaps make a thread about here because every substance that helps with pfs definitely deserves its own thread!

Also these herbs you are talking about that spposedly help with nerves should have their own threads as well! I still think my main nerve that was affected by low allopregnenlone is damaged because i jsut dont get the blood flow in that region like I used to, but that could also be ebcause I have been drinking a lot of coffee every day as well as niacinmide and other things that are anti-NO.

 

[sladerunner69]

Cheers for the reply. Yeah I think that around 5 oral drops before gym works best from me also. I definitely enjoy the work out more and feel much leaner afterwards also so I think I'll stick to that dose (also cheaper that way!).
Yeah I've been taking preg at 150mg for nearly a week now and I'm displaying signs of low E I think; slightly irritable, joints cracking ALOT, no morning wood and low libido but can maintain erection fine, I think it's time to end this run and just wait until I get the Pan and Vit K. Thanks for the suggestion with L-Tyrosine, I'll throw it in at some stage.

Did you manage to get an answer regarding androsterone instead of R-andro? as I said I'm looking to run R-Andro in the summer but the ideal labs version is much cheaper so I might do that instead if it's recommended.

I've had a lot of weird feelings in my scrotum since all this started and I suppose clenched could describe some of them! I didn't notice DHP causing them however. I did get a clenching feeling where my prostate is a couple of times for a few minutes at a time too but it's extremely rare. When I've had a mini crash it's felt like a tingling that was draining my balls, other times I've had a hollow feeling in the whole area with my inner thighs feeling weird. At times I've had pains that have developed into the blood vessels in my sac and shaft looking much more pronounced and much of them stay to this day. Most days now however my junk just hangs low and loose and is warm to the touch so I think that's a good sign. I get some form of morning and nocturnal wood most nights but it is mostly weak and at times strong. All in all I think I'm primed to go down there as I've had no lasting shrinkage or circulation problem, I just to kick start the Leydig Cells to start doing their thing. One thing I notice is that there is not really any ....aroma from there most days and I feel that this is linked to my libido as days when I'm getting horny my natural smell comes back and before all this it used to be much stronger. This is weird line of conversation to be having with an internet stranger but have you noticed anything similar and did it change once you started getting your libido back with Pan and Andro?

Also one other thing I'm slight unclear about is; is this something that we have to keep up or is it generally thought that once we get our hormonal system back up and running as it was, that we don't need to be taking the prohormones any more? Don't get me wrong I look forward to a time when I can push past my previous 100% and keep optimizing my system for a better quality of life but I don't want to be worrying about running out of the right chemicals less I become bedridden for much of my life if you know what I mean? And a part of me is kind jealous of the naive ability I used to have of just looking at a bad day as a bad day and not "my E is too low today, better lay off" or "better eat some sugar, cortisol is too high", if you know what I mean? It's weird how this knowledge changes your though patterns and behaviors.

Yes once you recover you should feel as good as you did before pfs and not have to take anything or eat in a particular way if you don't want to. However the damage is very severe and it can take years to return to that point. Hormonal shifts and damage to the endocrine system can take months to recover from under the best of circumstances. Nerve damage can take years and years, and I am sure that the nerves are part of pfs, the nerves controlling sexual function and brain function. Using chemicals and diet can help catalyze the recovery, and restore insufficiencies in the encorine system at the same time. I do know guys who have fully recoverred using nothing but diet and excercise too, but I plan o living peeat and taking whatever supplements keep me feeling my best, brightest, and most ambitious for the rest of my life after recovery. However, a I ahve made progress, I have noticed that the chemicals and hormones become less effective and have stronger side effects. DHEA for example, used tot ake me from 30% to 90% in terms of mental function. Now when I take it, I become overstimulated and then feel very tired because my cortisol and estrogen is ALREADY low and the dhea is overompensating so instead of taking 10m at a time I only take 1-2mg.

Now as for what you are currently on, I would recommend losing either the DHP or the preg. 5 drops dhp+150mg preg seems like too much, and both of those will have a potent anti-stress effect through lowering cort and estradiol. What I do is take pregnenelone at 50-100mg a day with 1-2 drops androsterone and maybe 3mg oral dhea and drink some coffee and gelatin and rub on some energin. this is a good regimen but it leaves me feeling less thoughtful and more physical and a bit empty minded.

So lately I ahve been doing 5drops dhp x2 daily, with niacinmide to upregulate 5ar, famatodine to feel calm, and plenty of coffee, gelatin, calcium, sodium to keep my thyroid high... this helps me feel nice and relaxed and thoughtful through the whole day

I have also had success with taking 3 drops pansterone, one drop androsterone, and aspirin with a little coffee

 

[JoeKool]

Hello @sladerunner69

R-Andro is a tablet based high dosage Androsterone pro-hormone from IronMagLabs that supposedly converts to DHT at a high rate... it was used in other people's recovery and i believe it's helped me at a high dosage... the IdealLabs Andro is only 1MG a drop... whereas the R-Andro pill is 100mg per pill... I took 2 pills 3 times a day. It's a prohormone used in the bodybuilding community so you will experience decent strength gains and alpha feeling... or at least your supposed to... i think it made me feel closer to normal cuz I was started in a down state... there are tons of pro hormones and DHEA based bodybuilding products... I can answer more questions as I had a long history of experimenting with those... 4AD and 1AD are examples of these... but not to be taken in this state...

I did use 4 drops of pasterone on my scrotum and it revived by libido when i did for several days... but also triggered some gyno so i'm working to beat (it's pretty much gone) and then i'll experiment with dosages... I can't 100% be sure it's the pansterone but i can wait on libido...

With Sorghum, I tried the flour in pancakes (I nicknamed them pan-cocks) and switched over to the seeds which i ground up in a nutribullet because i went on a diet... egg whites, sorghum seeds and protein powder...

I want to touch on the irritability here... DHT is what makes a man a man... I'm sure you've heard of 'roid-rage' which is the aggression and irritability of steroid users... but not all steroid users experience that... just the ones taking the DHT derivatives or extremely high dosages of testosterone... A high dose of R-Andro may trigger your irritability because it's working... and sorghum triggering 5ar will likely have the same outcome but... that might be a sign it's working and you may want to test lower but regular dosages throughout a day to balance out... but if you research affects of DHT, aggression/irritability is a sign of it... it's why teenagers get it fights a lot as their hormones are thru the roof... and they want to screw every thing with a pulse... that's the 'side affect' of DHT... Ours drops as we age and, of course, falls to zero when we take FIN, so as I stated in my original thread... FIN changes you... I noticed confidence dropping but didn't know why... it's because i didn't feel like a man... so i would revisit it , if i were you, as something that was very likely triggering what we want here... just experiment and maybe use something to calm... like a L-Theanine tea... but try lower dosages first... totally my opinion here...

 

[sladerunner69]

Hello @sladerunner69

R-Andro is a tablet based high dosage Androsterone pro-hormone from IronMagLabs that supposedly converts to DHT at a high rate... it was used in other people's recovery and i believe it's helped me at a high dosage... the IdealLabs Andro is only 1MG a drop... whereas the R-Andro pill is 100mg per pill... I took 2 pills 3 times a day. It's a prohormone used in the bodybuilding community so you will experience decent strength gains and alpha feeling... or at least your supposed to... i think it made me feel closer to normal cuz I was started in a down state... there are tons of pro hormones and DHEA based bodybuilding products... I can answer more questions as I had a long history of experimenting with those... 4AD and 1AD are examples of these... but not to be taken in this state...

I did use 4 drops of pasterone on my scrotum and it revived by libido when i did for several days... but also triggered some gyno so i'm working to beat (it's pretty much gone) and then i'll experiment with dosages... I can't 100% be sure it's the pansterone but i can wait on libido...

With Sorghum, I tried the flour in pancakes (I nicknamed them pan-cocks) and switched over to the seeds which i ground up in a nutribullet because i went on a diet... egg whites, sorghum seeds and protein powder...

I want to touch on the irritability here... DHT is what makes a man a man... I'm sure you've heard of 'roid-rage' which is the aggression and irritability of steroid users... but not all steroid users experience that... just the ones taking the DHT derivatives or extremely high dosages of testosterone... A high dose of R-Andro may trigger your irritability because it's working... and sorghum triggering 5ar will likely have the same outcome but... that might be a sign it's working and you may want to test lower but regular dosages throughout a day to balance out... but if you research affects of DHT, aggression/irritability is a sign of it... it's why teenagers get it fights a lot as their hormones are thru the roof... and they want to screw every thing with a pulse... that's the 'side affect' of DHT... Ours drops as we age and, of course, falls to zero when we take FIN, so as I stated in my original thread... FIN changes you... I noticed confidence dropping but didn't know why... it's because i didn't feel like a man... so i would revisit it , if i were you, as something that was very likely triggering what we want here... just experiment and maybe use something to calm... like a L-Theanine tea... but try lower dosages first... totally my opinion here...

Yes the irritability could be a sign that it is potentiating androgens like DHT, however the irritability I was experiencing was related to very low cortisol and estrogen. It heavily suppressed my libido and made it difficult for me to feel any emotions, and jsut made everything seem hollow/vapid. It was not a good feeling, it was actually similar to crashing of finasteride. The irritability I get from dhea is probably a combination of being stimulated and androgenic while also experiencing low cortisol because dhea is known to antagonize cortisol potently.

 

[coppersocks]

Yes once you recover you should feel as good as you did before pfs and not have to take anything or eat in a particular way if you don't want to. However the damage is very severe and it can take years to return to that point. Hormonal shifts and damage to the endocrine system can take months to recover from under the best of circumstances. Nerve damage can take years and years, and I am sure that the nerves are part of pfs, the nerves controlling sexual function and brain function. Using chemicals and diet can help catalyze the recovery, and restore insufficiencies in the encorine system at the same time. I do know guys who have fully recoverred using nothing but diet and excercise too, but I plan o living peeat and taking whatever supplements keep me feeling my best, brightest, and most ambitious for the rest of my life after recovery. However, a I ahve made progress, I have noticed that the chemicals and hormones become less effective and have stronger side effects. DHEA for example, used tot ake me from 30% to 90% in terms of mental function. Now when I take it, I become overstimulated and then feel very tired because my cortisol and estrogen is ALREADY low and the dhea is overompensating so instead of taking 10m at a time I only take 1-2mg.

Now as for what you are currently on, I would recommend losing either the DHP or the preg. 5 drops dhp+150mg preg seems like too much, and both of those will have a potent anti-stress effect through lowering cort and estradiol. What I do is take pregnenelone at 50-100mg a day with 1-2 drops androsterone and maybe 3mg oral dhea and drink some coffee and gelatin and rub on some energin. this is a good regimen but it leaves me feeling less thoughtful and more physical and a bit empty minded.

So lately I ahve been doing 5drops dhp x2 daily, with niacinmide to upregulate 5ar, famatodine to feel calm, and plenty of coffee, gelatin, calcium, sodium to keep my thyroid high... this helps me feel nice and relaxed and thoughtful through the whole day

I have also had success with taking 3 drops pansterone, one drop androsterone, and aspirin with a little coffee

Thanks for the reply. That post I made was a while ago now and I've since been off all hormones for a week and then two days ago I started taking about 3mg each of Pansterone and Androsterone twice daily. Is this too little?

Essentially where I'm at now in terms of symptoms (and I apologise in advance for hijacking your thread again Joe) is I'm basically fine other than occasional mood swings and very low libido and slight ED. I went off fin just over three months ago and for much of that time I had extreme fatigue, brain fog, anxiety, derealisation, blurring of vision, complete erectile dysfunction and numbness, varicous veins appearing on my genitals, extreme insomnia and not being able to sleep for more than an hour and a half at a time.

I've been following CD's protocol for about two months now and I have used some of suggestions I've seen here as well as stocking up on much of ideal labs supply (T3, 5aDHP, vit K, Pan, Andro).
I found that once I got my sleep pattern better (waking up only once per night now as opposed to 5 or 6 times) through a good before bed routine, intermittent T3 supplementation and having plenty of sugar throughout the day and on hand at night, that the other problems started to fix themselves somewhat. I realise that I've actually had it incredibly easy compared to many who have suffered with this infliction with worse symptoms for longer periods of time, including yourself.

It's my libido that is frustrating me though, frustrating and worrying me that I'll never be able to live a normal sex life. As I said I've only been on the Pan/Andro combo for a couple of days at this stage but I'm yet to see an improvement and though my libido has returned in fits and starts previously it never seems to stick. I'd do anything to have it back again normally. My plan at this stage is to stick with this for roughly six weeks, give the prohormones a rest for a couple months and then reevaluate my situation so if any of you have any suggestions or remarks about this plan in terms of getting my libido up it would be greatly appreciated. I actually went to the doctor yesterday as I was experiencing some pain around the variocele in my scotum that have developed and also a couple of very prominent varicous veins showed up on my penis (which I hate but I'm probably just going to have to live with them now) after a night of discomfort down there. He said it was nothing to worry about (don't they all?) but I managed to persuade him to do a comprehensive hormonal panel so hopefully something on that will be able to point in the right direction (I'm curious to see if I'm still have from low E from my preg/ 5aDHP run, which might explain why my libido is worse than it was 6 weeks ago).

Anyway, enough about me, how are you feeling Joe, now that you've had time to settle after your andro run? Slight suppression is to be expected generally, has your situation improved at all?

 

[JoeKool]

Hey @coppersocks

First, no apologies needed ... this thread is for everyone ... if we all benefit from learning from each other's solutions, it won't matter who started the thread... we'll all be doing the dance of joy !!

Now, in terms of libido, that's 100% related to estrogen... when you get your blood levels back, see how estradiol looks... I'm trying to get a gauge of where your symptoms lie... cortisol/estrogen or 5ar/dht/androgens...

However, pretty much either way, the dhea or preg are the building blocks of much of your body's hormones... so by taking those, your body should use what it needs in the fashion it needs it... I suggest adding D3-Cholecalciferol as that is cholesterol and is another major building block of the hormone footprint...

The fact that your libido returns in fits is a huge good sign... and along the lines of how you mentioned things began to fix as proper sleep returned, I think you may want a full detox off of anything hormone related to give your body a time to reach it's own stasis... the going could be rough at the start but I think some things might balance out for you given some time off... I'm a big proponent of cycling off and I want to press that here... either the product will lose it's potency and you have to take more, or your body will begin to drop it's own production of something to compensate for the exogenous products... then when you startup again, it's original potency should return...

As for me, I've seen some good progress... still have some appearance changes down there... but progress nonetheless...

 

[coppersocks]

Cheers @JoeKool

I think you're right about my estrogen/cortisol being low and effecting my libido. If I try and work it out with you in regards to my symptoms:

*Anxiety is rare, for the most part better even than it was pre fin and I'm generally very confident again (low cortisol maybe).
*Sleep can be hit or miss, but getting better in the long run as I think my GABA and allopreg was badly hit during the initial crash but seems to be getting better, maybe a sign that my 5ar has improved? I do wake up with a start most nights but I find that by taking a 4mcg of t3 or some sugar before bed that I sleep mostly OK.
*Brain fog has continually gotten better, it comes and goes but never for long stretches, and rarely to the point that it is debilitating in any way unlike when I first crashed where I could barely follow a conversation.
*I definitely have reduced pleasurable sensation (not as bad as before though) from sexual activity and I have very little libido throughout the day unless I force it. Can still take a while to get up without porn.
*Morning wood is mostly back but some days very weak
*My mood does still fluctuate and at times I can get pretty depressed at my situation or annoyed at those around me. Particularly if I'm hungry and my blood sugar is low. I got extremely depressed a few days ago when I started noticing my own appearance changes happening again.

What I think I'm gonna do is keep taking the a small amount of Pan/Andro that I'm on until I get my bloods back next week so I can confirm. I did go off everything for a week but started getting some adverse reactions to being off them like the new varicous veins and dark blood vessels appearing (which hasn't happened since the first month previously) so I want to be certain that it's estrogen suppression caused by the prohormes that's effecting my libido before I cancel this run. I've made sure that the dose I'm on is within physiological limits so I should be fine in regards to androgen suppression if I'm only on them for six weeks or so, but I do take your point and when I go off them - be that now or in a month and a half- I will stay off for at least ten weeks so that my body can find it's own level.

What is does your symptom profile look like now and how is that compared to pre Andro run?

Thanks for the help man, we'll get through this.

 

[Hairyhands]

600/500

Which brands of Nicotinamide do you use? Prices vary from the cheap to the ridiculous.

 

[JoeKool]

I think we mean niacinamide, which I picked up online cheap

 

[Hairyhands]

Thanks. At doses above 3grams niacinamide is considered toxic to the liver, I guess that's what the coffee enemas are for :)