Oxidal - Liquid Redox Modulator

[Wagner83]

I was thinking about some stuff and decided to investigate the interactions between mb and gaba:

Methylene blue inhibits GABAA receptors by interaction with GABA binding site

I don't know how it would translate to humans but perhaps the negative effects seen in some people at 'low' doses can be explained by these properties as well. Of course it makes one wonder if an excess of gaba could be taken care of by mb.

 

[Soren]

Could this supplement cause twitching say from the Methylene Blue? Been supplementing 2 drops a day for about a month and had some twitching develop in my right hand. Didn't take it this morning and no twitching.

 

[jb116]

I was thinking about some stuff and decided to investigate the interactions between mb and gaba:

Methylene blue inhibits GABAA receptors by interaction with GABA binding site

I don't know how it would translate to humans but perhaps the negative effects seen in some people at 'low' doses can be explained by these properties as well. Of course it makes one wonder if an excess of gaba could be taken care of by mb.

Even stranger is that I use MB for sleep at times. Knocks me out and keeps me deep in it.

 

[Wagner83]

Even stranger is that I use MB for sleep at times. Knocks me out and keeps me deep in it.

Haidut told me the dose used in the stusy is extremely high.

"The IC50 of MB in that study was 31uM. That would requite an oral dose of 100mg+ daily for several days, assuming 75% bioavailability. Hopefully, nobody on the forum is taking that much as the serotonin elevation would much more concerning than the GABA antagonism."

 

[jb116]

Haidut told me the dose used in the stusy is extremely high.

"The IC50 of MB in that study was 31uM. That would requite an oral dose of 100mg+ daily for several days, assuming 75% bioavailability. Hopefully, nobody on the forum is taking that much as the serotonin elevation would much more concerning than the GABA antagonism."

Oh, yea! that's high. I usually do about 1-2mg for sleep.

 

[haidut]

Could this supplement cause twitching say from the Methylene Blue? Been supplementing 2 drops a day for about a month and had some twitching develop in my right hand. Didn't take it this morning and no twitching.

It can, if it elevates serotonin. Twitching is a common sign of elevated serotonin. Just 2 drops should not be causing such effects but as @Wagner83 mentioned, apparently even lower doses can cause issues when combined with certain foods.

 

[Soren]

It can, if it elevates serotonin. Twitching is a common sign of elevated serotonin. Just 2 drops should not be causing such effects but as @Wagner83 mentioned, apparently even lower doses can cause issues when combined with certain foods.

Thanks. I'm curious as to which foods that might be. Gave some MB to family member suffering with Parkinson's disease and she said that whilst on it she felt more jittery. I think a lot of PD stems from serotonin and gut issues that contribute to high levels of serotonin.

If i think back to when i started twitching it was only after the reintroduction of certain grains and a few days where I had PUFA from fries.

 

[haidut]

Thanks. I'm curious as to which foods that might be. Gave some MB to family member suffering with Parkinson's disease and she said that whilst on it she felt more jittery. I think a lot of PD stems from serotonin and gut issues that contribute to high levels of serotonin.

If i think back to when i started twitching it was only after the reintroduction of certain grains and a few days where I had PUFA from fries.

Hopefully, @Wagner83 can chime in. I think he noticed it from quite a few foods. I personally only get it from aged cheeses or when drinking a lot of alcohol (which is itself serotonergic).

 

[Wagner83]

I simply checked the foods high in tyramine and it seemed to match. You goggle it you should find plenty of references. One drop at once may be too much and haidut suggested it does build up. Amazoniac thinks 100mcg every other day (three days?) is better. I think cheeses like quarck cheese were fine for me (didn't try cottage cheese). Not convinced by chocolate, bread etc..
Despite @Travis' attempt at switching on a light in my brain with his post, I'm still not sure if high-serotonin foods would be bad as well or if it wouldn't be an issue.

 

[rebuke]

@haidut is the MB in this product sourced from Sigma? Concerned about the purity.

 

[nwo2012]

@haidut is the MB in this product sourced from Sigma? Concerned about the purity.

Do Sigma provide an impure product?

 

[Soren]

What would be the better substance to prevent serotonin increase from MB, metergoline or cyproheptadine?

 

[haidut]

@haidut is the MB in this product sourced from Sigma? Concerned about the purity.

No, it is not from Sigma. Btw, ours is USP-grade, so it should not have impurities. We also tested a batch some time ago using the same raw material which we bought in bulk and still use and there were no heavy metals or other toxic chemicals the lab tested for.

 

[Aleeri]

Question, anyone have experience to share on how MB affects their erections?

Androgenic maintenance of the rat erectile response via a non-nitric-oxide-dependent pathway.
Reilly CM, Lewis RW, Stopper VS, Mills TM.

Source

Department of Physiology and Endocrinology, Medical College of Georgia, Augusta 30912-3000, USA.

Abstract

Prior studies have demonstrated that the erectile response in the rat penis is androgen dependent and is mediated by nitric oxide (NO), the neurotransmitter synthesized by the enzyme nitric oxide synthase (NOS). The present studies used L-nitro-L-arginine methyl ester (L-NAME), an inhibitor of NOS, to determine if androgens also regulate alternative pathways leading to the erectile response but not mediated by NO. Castrated rats that were treated with L-NAME (L-NAME CASTRATE) exhibited little or no increase in intracavernosal pressure in response to stimulation of the major pelvic ganglion. This ganglion controls blood flow into the penis and, when stimulated, normally leads to erection. However, when castrated animals were treated with testosterone along with L-NAME (L-NAME TESTO), the animals responded to the ganglionic stimulation with increased intracavernosal pressure. This finding suggests that there are other androgen-dependent pathways that lead to penile erection but are not mediated by NO. Erection occurred in both L-NAME CASTRATE and L-NAME TESTO rats in response to intracavernosal injection of sodium nitroprusside (an NO donor drug), proving that the NO responsive mechanisms were unaffected by the inhibition of NOS activity. To investigate further the nature of this NO independent pathway, L-NAME CASTRATE and L-NAME TESTO rats were treated with either zaprinast (a specific phosphodiesterase 5 inhibitor), which would block the breakdown of cGMP to 5'GMP, or methylene blue (an inhibitor of guanylate cyclase) to prevent the synthesis of cGMP. Zaprinast treatment led to increased erectile response in L-NAME TESTO rats but not in L-NAME CASTRATE rats, demonstrating that androgen-sensitive alternative pathways increased guanylate cyclase activity. Methylene blue inhibited the erectile response in all treatment groups, showing that cyclic GMP is critical to the NO-independent pathway as well as the NO-dependent pathway. Taken together, these results support the hypothesis that androgens maintain the erectile response by alternate pathways, including one that is independent of NO but involves the synthesis of cyclic GMP. PMID: 9432131 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

 

[haidut]

Question, anyone have experience to share on how MB affects their erections?

I would be interested to hear feedback too, but so far we have not have anybody complain of such issues. Btw, the MB dose used in the study was on the high end. They used 0.3mg/kg IV, which roughly corresponded to 3mg/kg oral dose. The HED of such a dose would be 0.5mg/kg, so to replicate this study one would need 35mg-50mg MB. That is a high dose and human studies for depression, psychosis, etc have typically used 15mg daily or less, and most people here tend to use around 1mg daily.

 

[Wagner83]

I would be interested to hear feedback too, but so far we have not have anybody complain of such issues. Btw, the MB dose used in the study was on the high end. They used 0.3mg/kg IV, which roughly corresponded to 3mg/kg oral dose. The HED of such a dose would be 0.5mg/kg, so to replicate this study one would need 35mg-50mg MB. That is a high dose and human studies for depression, psychosis, etc have typically used 15mg daily or less, and most people here tend to use around 1mg daily.

In my experience it makes them a bit harder and smaller.

 

[ChineseinSweden]

I thought it would be ok to have drop of oxidal two hours after feta cheese, I was very wrong, don't do it at home.

What symptoms did you experience after using Oxidal too close to eating feta cheese? Did you use Oxidal orally? Did you eat a lot of feta cheese?

 

[ChineseinSweden]

Does anyone know anything about using Oxidal/MB when on Ritalin? Right now I'm using Oxidal topically 2-3 drops per day, but I interested in trying it orally.

 

[Anders86]

What is the consensus of MB on androgens and potential muscle growth?

 

[Mauritio]

@haidut What would be the best place of application for ear infection , do you recommend spreading it around the ear lobe?
Also can we apply it at the same time and spot as lapodin or should we alternate days ?