MORE WEIGHT LOSS TALK

[Rinse & rePeat]

I did a quick calculation on your no cream ice cream recipe and then plugged it and the rest of the foods you listed into cronometer and got roughly 1050 calories—is that correct? If so, was this an average day of eating for you when you gained the 20 pounds of muscle?

In "Lose Fat Not Pounds" I ate more fruit and sugar and did not drink milk at all. I would get anywhere from 80 to 120+ grams of protein a day and barely any calcium. That thread was not about micromanaging my food step-by-step, but rather how important protein and sugar is to gain muscles and lose fat, and without exercise. Adding in dairy and sugar for most people is difficult to do without gaining weight, and has been for me as well, but I am figuring it out. I wasn't anymore hungry that day. I don't care about calories, in "Lose Fat Not Pounds" nor now. I eat what I want, but just make sure I get my proteins and calcium in, and NOW paying balancingbmy fats and sugars to burn extra fat while keeping my muscle. When get my body needs more calories I will be hungry. As you can see on my proteins thread, which i post as I eat things, I eat a great variety of foods, and sometimes I have a couple cocktails too without worry. I am only posting my days food when the scales tip downwards to give an idea how I balance a good day.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

"I have heard from several people that they think I recommend drinking whole milk, which I don't, because the amount of fat in whole milk is very likely to be fattening when a person is using it to get the needed protein and calcium. When a person wants to lose excess fat, limiting the diet to low fat milk, eggs, orange juice, and a daily carrot or two, will provide the essential nutrients without excess calories." -Ray Peat e-mail exchange

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I did a quick calculation on your no cream ice cream recipe and then plugged it and the rest of the foods you listed into cronometer and got roughly 1050 calories—is that correct? If so, was this an average day of eating for you when you gained the 20 p
ounds of muscle?

BTW in "Lose Fats Not Pounds" the story goes I went from 20 pounds underweight to eating lots of ice cream and to gain weight, but I went too far, and needed to lose weight, and i didn't. Instead I lost fat and inches and gaining muscle while my weight stayed the same. This thread i wanted to be play by play, not a story, but with more specific details, while adding in the calcium. FairyKiller asked me months ago to do a thread like this months ago and here it is.

 

[Jennifer]

BTW in "Lose Fats Not Pounds" the story goes I went from 20 pounds underweight to eating lots of ice cream and to gain weight, but I went too far, and needed to lose weight, and i didn't. Instead I lost fat and inches and gaining muscle while my weight stayed the same. This thread i wanted to be play by play, not a story, but with more specific details, while adding in the calcium. FairyKiller asked me months ago to do a thread like this months ago and here it is.

Thank you for explaining. It seemed like this thread, as apposed to your Lose Fat Not Pounds thread, was more about the finer details of weight loss so I was hoping you wouldn’t mind me asking questions? :)

In "Lose Fat Not Pounds" I ate more fruit and sugar and did not drink milk at all. I would get anywhere from 80 to 120+ grams of protein a day and barely any calcium. That thread was not about micromanaging my food step-by-step, but rather how important protein and sugar is to gain muscles and lose fat, and without exercise. Adding in dairy and sugar for most people is difficult to do without gaining weight, and has been for me as well, but I am figuring it out. I wasn't anymore hungry that day. I don't care about calories, in "Lose Fat Not Pounds" nor now. I eat what I want, but just make sure I get my proteins and calcium in, and NOW paying balancingbmy fats and sugars to burn extra fat while keeping my muscle. When get my body needs more calories I will be hungry. As you can see on my proteins thread, which i post as I eat things, I eat a great variety of foods, and sometimes I have a couple cocktails too without worry. I am only posting my days food when the scales tip downwards to give an idea how I balance a good day.

Apologies if I’m misunderstanding. You mean that protein and sugar helped you gain muscle and lose fat, but sugar in combination with dairy causes you to gain weight? And as long as you get enough protein and calcium, you’re able to maintain your muscle even with as little as 1000 calories? When posting what you ate when the scale tips downward, are there specific things you’re going by to discern what caused the weight loss? What I mean is, if you’re not accounting for energy intake and expenditure, is there some other way you’re able to determine that the weight loss is due to a certain combination of foods/WOE and not an energy deficit, and if it’s fat loss and not muscle loss, since we can’t go by the number on the scale alone given muscle weighs more than fat?

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Thank you for explaining. It seemed like this thread, as apposed to your Lose Fat Not Pounds thread, was more about the finer details of weight loss so I was hoping you wouldn’t mind me asking questions? :)



Apologies if I’m misunderstanding. You mean that protein and sugar helped you gain muscle and lose fat, but sugar in combination with dairy causes you to gain weight? And as long as you get enough protein and calcium, you’re able to maintain your muscle even with as little as 1000 calories? When posting what you ate when the scale tips downward, are there specific things you’re going by to discern what caused the weight loss? What I mean is, if you’re not accounting for energy intake and expenditure, is there some other way you’re able to determine that the weight loss is due to a certain combination of foods/WOE and not an energy deficit, and if it’s fat loss and not muscle loss, since we can’t go by the number on the scale alone given muscle weighs more than fat?

No apologies necessary! You can always ask questions! I always enjoy our back and forths. Since balancing my fats away from sugar I am seeing another change in my figure. When last year hit, i wasn't out as much, and I cooked more foods that I didn't normally cook, aka starches, to keep the household happy. I put on some extra that I wanted to take off when Spring came, but I didn't want to give up the milk. So I have been doing a lot of trial and error trying to figure out how it could work and the two RP quotes was what I wasn't doing. The extra weight came off quickly when I applied these new principles, and I was finally anxious to share my new findings. As long as I am feeding my muscles with protein and fats I don't have to worry about the calories. I would notice an energy deficiency because I would be hungry or fatigued. I am full of energy. Another Ray Peat quote that struck me is in this interview at the 51:20 mark of the video posted below, Ray Peat answers the question "what would you do to lose weight"? Ray Peat first sentence out was, "First stop eating for awhile". Drinking the bulk of my daily intake instead of solid food has been easier to get ample proteins and calcium. Ray is not opposed to low calories when losing weight, as long as you aren't deficient in calcium and protein. I never ignore hunger, but I am not force feeding myself just because it's mealtime either.

"When a person wants to lose excess fat, limiting the diet to low fat milk, eggs, orange juice, and a daily carrot or two, will provide the essential nutrients without excess calories." -Ray Peat e-mail exchange



View: https://youtu.be/96AFY50-J4A

 

[Dutchie]

All great things, but no sugar sources?

Nope.... that's why I said to you in another thread that I don't really belong here,bc I can't adhere to the dietary guidelines.

Fructose kills me...

 

[Jennifer]

No apologies necessary! You can always ask questions! I always enjoy our back and forths. Since balancing my fats away from sugar I am seeing another change in my figure. When last year hit, i wasn't out as much, and I cooked more foods that I didn't normally cook, aka starches, to keep the household happy. I put on some extra that I wanted to take off when Spring came, but I didn't want to give up the milk. So I have been doing a lot of trial and error trying to figure out how it could work and the two RP quotes was what I wasn't doing. The extra weight came off quickly when I applied these new principles, and I was finally anxious to share my new findings. As long as I am feeding my muscles with protein and fats I don't have to worry about the calories. I would notice an energy deficiency because I would be hungry or fatigued. I am full of energy. Another Ray Peat quote that struck me is in this interview at the 51:20 mark of the video posted below, Ray Peat answers the question "what would you do to lose weight"? Ray Peat first sentence out was, "First stop eating for awhile". Drinking the bulk of my daily intake instead of solid food has been easier to get ample proteins and calcium. Ray is not opposed to low calories when losing weight, as long as you aren't deficient in calcium and protein. I never ignore hunger, but I am not force feeding myself just because it's mealtime either.

"When a person wants to lose excess fat, limiting the diet to low fat milk, eggs, orange juice, and a daily carrot or two, will provide the essential nutrients without excess calories." -Ray Peat e-mail exchange



View: https://youtu.be/96AFY50-J4A

Great! Thank you for explaining. What still confuses me is you said in your Lose Weight Not Pounds thread that despite having lost fat or “volume,” your weight stayed the same, which I took to mean that you had preserved the 20 pounds of muscle you had initially gained? And in the video you posted, Ray said this at minutes 53:45 when asked if calories still matter:

Ray Peat: Yeah, but the difference is that a person who’s been dieting very often will be burning calories at a rate of seven or eight hundred calories per day and so they get fat on just a few snacks, but when you shift over making sure your vitamin D and thyroid are okay, but shift over to a high calcium to phosphate ratio in your diet, not much meat, not much shellfish, not much ordinary fish, but enough shellfish for the trace minerals, the high calcium to phosphate ratio and high protein relative to fat, with the rest of it carbohydrate, enough so that you handle the protein and fat metabolism without stress, that will very quickly increase your calorie consumption from seven or eight hundred a day up to the normal two thousand per day, making it tremendously easier to lose weight and as you stay out of the stress condition, your muscles are going to recover. You’ll put on weight in the form of muscle as part of your ability to burn a thousand or fifteen hundred more calories per day so your muscles are then going to take over continuing weight regulation.

So that would mean that as our muscle mass increases, caloric requirements increase too, right? Since muscle weighs more than fat, if you don’t track calories as your weight decreases, how do you gauge that it’s fat you’re losing and not all that muscle you built?

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Here is more to why

Nope.... that's why I said to you in another thread that I don't really belong here,bc I can't adhere to the dietary guidelines.

Fructose kills me...

Oh you have fructose intolerance! I have been reading about that recently after my husband had a violent reaction to honeydew a few weeks ago. Can you drink milk? Milk has natural sugars that keep you out of a low carb state.

 

[Dutchie]

Here is more to why

Oh you have fructose intolerance! I have been reading about that recently after my husband had a violent reaction to honeydew a few weeks ago. Can you drink milk? Milk has natural sugars that keep you out of a low carb state.

I'd been experimenting with a little whole goatmilk and for a while it seemed allright (though I didn't drink the amounts that most here do). Recently I had some spoiled milk and since then I feel cold after having milk despite that I let it come to roomtemp. (which I like less, I like milk to be cold).

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I'd been experimenting with a little whole goatmilk and for a while it seemed allright (though I didn't drink the amounts that most here do). Recently I had some spoiled milk and since then I feel cold after having milk despite that I let it come to roomtemp. (which I like less, I like milk to be cold).

I wish I could get use to the taste of goat milk, but cow liver has been easier to adapt to than that. It does sound like you are stuck with having to have a little starch with your proteins for your "sugar". It still beats low carbing. In your case I would be taking the top bun off my burger instead of having the coke.

 

[Dutchie]

I wish I could get use to the taste of goat milk, but cow liver has been easier to adapt to than that. It does sound like you are stuck with having to have a little starch with your proteins for your "sugar". It still beats low carbing. In your case I would be taking the top bun off my burger instead of having the coke.

I'm glad the taste hasn't offended me (at least the one I'd gotten), bc I don't tolerate cowdairy....which means I don't have skim milk at my disposal either.

Actually, in my case it would be a coke-less bun-less burger. ?
My starch digestion isn't the best aside from the fact that I don't care for many 'starch-approved' sources like corn and rice.
The only one I like is regular potato...which I sadly don't tolerate bc it's a nightshade.:/

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I'm glad the taste hasn't offended me (at least the one I'd gotten), bc I don't tolerate cowdairy....which means I don't have skim milk at my disposal either.

Actually, in my case it would be a coke-less bun-less burger. ?
My starch digestion isn't the best aside from the fact that I don't care for many 'starch-approved' sources like corn and rice.
The only one I like is regular potato...which I sadly don't tolerate bc it's a nightshade.:/

Oh my goodness! Have you always had these extreme limitations or did something lead to them?

 

[Dutchie]

Oh my goodness! Have you always had these extreme limitations or did something lead to them?

Well,there's been a major part of my life where I lived on standard processed foods. I was experiencing lots of issues already back then,so most likely yes....

When I was turned to the world of healthfood bc of 76 food intolerances, the things I could tolerate automatically landed me at Paleo/SCD/GAPS.
From very lowcarb Paleo, I learned about Peat....after that stint I'd become intolerant to even more bc of plant toxins (lectins, oxalates,salicylates).

Obviously,for me, it's not just about healing the gut and all will be well.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Great! Thank you for explaining. What still confuses me is you said in your Lose Weight Not Pounds thread that despite having lost fat or “volume,” your weight stayed the same, which I took to mean that you had preserved the 20 pounds of muscle you had initially gained? And in the video you posted, Ray said this at minutes 53:45 when asked if calories still matter:

Ray Peat: Yeah, but the difference is that a person who’s been dieting very often will be burning calories at a rate of seven or eight hundred calories per day and so they get fat on just a few snacks, but when you shift over making sure your vitamin D and thyroid are okay, but shift over to a high calcium to phosphate ratio in your diet, not much meat, not much shellfish, not much ordinary fish, but enough shellfish for the trace minerals, the high calcium to phosphate ratio and high protein relative to fat, with the rest of it carbohydrate, enough so that you handle the protein and fat metabolism without stress, that will very quickly increase your calorie consumption from seven or eight hundred a day up to the normal two thousand per day, making it tremendously easier to lose weight and as you stay out of the stress condition, your muscles are going to recover. You’ll put on weight in the form of muscle as part of your ability to burn a thousand or fifteen hundred more calories per day so your muscles are then going to take over continuing weight regulation.

So that would mean that as our muscle mass increases, caloric requirements increase too, right? Since muscle weighs more than fat, if you don’t track calories as your weight decreases, how do you gauge that it’s fat you’re losing and not all that muscle you built?

Hey Girl! I have a little more time focus on more detailed answers. Hmmm where to start. In "Lose Fat Not Pounds" I was high sugar high protein. No my weight did not change, but my no stretch romper from when i was 20 pounds lighter fit when it didn't. So considering fat is 3 times more voluminous than muscle what else could I conclude?

As far as caloric intake goes, the foods I posted in this thread are certainly not considered diet foods. I don't live on milk and I don't make sure I eat tons of sugar, I just eat. I don't think anybody wanting to lose weight needs to start eating a lot like I do so my first post of a days worth of food is perfect for someone wanting to lose fat. If I posted a days worth of food with me "maintaining" my weight it would put weight on somebody wanting to lose weight. Milk is a big problem for people on a this RP protocol, and was for me too, so I have been trying to figure out how to manage not gaining weight on it myself with milk. When I happened to notice my clothes getting looser I discovered I lost 4 pounds in 2 weeks not even trying, and with that happening I realized I had some specifics to talk about where weight loss is concerned. I don't have a lot of weight to lose to do a big weight loss experiment, like I didv2 years ago for my friend. Since last year I didn't get fat as in voluminous, I gained a layer of fat from starches and then adding in milk didn't help things either. I could tell that the skin on my neck was looser and I was softer all over, that is fat. It looks fine in clothes, but I needed to make that shift of losing that layer of fat while keeping muscle, or even gaining muscle, as my legs got a little thinner too, which i don't want either. Here is my "I want to lose a layer of fat" pics from late April (black outfit) and early May (legs too thin and not looking strong).

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Well,there's been a major part of my life where I lived on standard processed foods. I was experiencing lots of issues already back then,so most likely yes....

When I was turned to the world of healthfood bc of 76 food intolerances, the things I could tolerate automatically landed me at Paleo/SCD/GAPS.
From very lowcarb Paleo, I learned about Peat....after that stint I'd become intolerant to even more bc of plant toxins (lectins, oxalates,salicylates).

Obviously,for me, it's not just about healing the gut and all will be well.

I see what you mean. How long have you been Ray Peating now?

 

[Dutchie]

I see what you mean. How long have you been Ray Peating now?

I've already stopped it years ago. There's just some things that I kept (actually I already didn't use it before I started), like no veggie oils or nuts&seeds, nor do I eat pork or fatty chicken.
...and about 2 years ago I also started supplementing with (coral)calcium.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I've already stopped it years ago. There's just some things that I kept (actually I already didn't use it before I started), like no veggie oils or nuts&seeds, nor do I eat pork or fatty chicken.
...and about 2 years ago I also started supplementing with (coral)calcium.

I get it now! Avoidance of PUFA's is the base of the Ray Peat diet so you are still "Peating". Taking the toxicity out of a diet is more important than laying nutrition on top of poison. When after two years of "Peating" and I was still unable to have the milk and orange juice, I was discouraged, so I wrote myself a pro's and con's list of what i could do and couldn't do and the "could do" list was much more than the couldn't do list, and I was so far from all the olive oil, salmon, nuts and oats I was still doing before RP. I really never thought i would be able to do everything now. I am holding out hope for you Dutchie :)

 

[Dutchie]

I get it now! Avoidance of PUFA's is the base of the Ray Peat diet so you are still "Peating". Taking the toxicity out of a diet is more important than laying nutrition on top of poison. When after two years of "Peating" and I was still unable to have the milk and orange juice, I was discouraged, so I wrote myself a pro's and con's list of what i could do and couldn't do and the "could do" list was much more than the couldn't do list, and I was so far from all the olive oil, salmon, nuts and oats I was still doing before RP. I really never thought i would be able to do everything now. I am holding out hope for you Dutchie :)

Thanks :)
I count it as a small victory that I've currently been able to use some herbs to add more flavor to my food.
In all fairness, I contribute my 'successes' to using Berberine,bc until now it causes me to have at least 1 bowel movement a day. (which causes less strain on my liver).

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Thanks :)
I count it as a small victory that I've currently been able to use some herbs to add more flavor to my food.
In all fairness, I contribute my 'successes' to using Berberine,bc until now it causes me to have at least 1 bowel movement a day. (which causes less strain on my liver).

Have you tried RP recommended casacara?

 

[Dutchie]

Have you tried RP recommended casacara?

Yep, it constipated me....as did charcoal