I’m Not Convinced Vitamin D Should Be Supplemented

[Hirri]

Maybe. But their basic assumption has already been falsified. Vit-D is not a hormone.


Why “Vitamin D” Is Not A Hormone

Maybe it does not matter how you call it if other things make sense? I don't know. But I know from my personal experience that I really don't trust 25D tests and its "norms".

 

[Hirri]

The people that call vitamin d "hormone d" are always misguided IMO. They get lost in this whole debate of what it should be called. They use the word hormone in place of vitamin to make it seem scary. Like people are suddenly hopping on bodybuilding hormones as soon as they take some vitamin D.

Except does hormone D cause people to feel better, are there thousands upon thousands of studies showing benefits from vitamin d intervention? Who gives a ***t if its technically a hormone, or a vitamin, or something else. Is it making people feel better? Is it protecting against disease?

But they are not saying that vitamin D is bad, they just say that you should get it from sun or food and that the tests that doctors do are inaccurate and many people simply don't have deficiency if they spend enough time in the sun and don't use sunscreens.

 

[LeeLemonoil]

Maybe it does not matter how you call it if other things make sense? I don't know. But I know from my personal experience that I really don't trust 25D tests and its "norms".

Sure nams are'nt important. What I meant is that when Vit-D sceptics base their rationale on hormonal mechanisms of action that are not proven then the argumentation is likely fals a priori.
We are all free to trust or question things, absolutely.
I'm still a bit worried about Anti-Viamin D agitation, it's one of the few readily, cheap and freely available substaces that holds huge therapeutic and preventative value. But each their own.

 

[Giraffe]

But they are not saying that vitamin D is bad, they just say that you should get it from sun or food and that the tests that doctors do are inaccurate and many people simply don't have deficiency if they spend enough time in the sun and don't use sunscreens.

For most people who live in a temperature climate and have a 9-17 job it's not possible to expose enough skin to the sun for long enough.

Levels Of Vitamin-D Metabolites After Supplementation And After UV Radiation

 

[LLight]

Maybe. But their basic assumption has already been falsified. Vit-D is not a hormone.


Why “Vitamin D” Is Not A Hormone

This discussion reminds me a post I read on Reddit about this topic:

"Vitamin D's main role isn't being an antioxidant, it's first and foremost a hormone"​

I highly doubt this. It never made sense to require a vitamin to function as a hormone, since the function is determined by the receptor. Why wouldnt the body just evolve to use some easier to manufacture molecule as the ligand when the signalling is crucial for life?

What makes much more sense is that the primary role is as an anti-oxidant, which depends on the physiochemical properties of the molecule itself. Then the metabolites of the antioxidant are also used to signal what kind of oxidative stress the body is experiencing.

See:

Vitamin D is a membrane antioxidant: thus Vitamin D3 (cholecalciferol) and its active metabolite 1,25-dihydroxycholecalciferol and also Vitamin D2 (ergocalciferol) and 7-dehydrocholesterol (pro-Vitamin D3) all inhibited iron-dependent liposomal lipid peroxidation.Vitamin D is a membrane antioxidant. Ability to inhibit iron-dependent lipid peroxidation in liposomes compared to cholesterol, ergosterol and tamoxifen and relevance to anticancer action - PubMed
​

And:

Compared with several well-known antioxidants, vitamin D3 may be one of the most powerful antioxidants in biological organisms as shown in the present study. Antioxidative effect of vitamin D3 on zinc-induced oxidative stress in CNS - PubMed​

There is a kind of fad in biomed to study signalling pathways instead of redox reactions, which is why many more papers have been published on its role as a hormone.

 

[Hirri]

For most people who live in a temperature climate and have a 9-17 job it's not possible to expose enough skin to the sun for long enough.

Levels Of Vitamin-D Metabolites After Supplementation And After UV Radiation

Maybe. But I also live in Europe where we have 8 months season with almost no sun and I still have my levels after winter relatively high (almost at the lowest range of the "norm" if you actually believe that 25D test is adequate for testing vitamin D levels in the first place). By the way, after I lived for 1 year in Costa Rica and had my test done even one winter later (meaning 1 year in Costa Rica + 8 months in European winter) my results came back as toxic level, that's how much vitamin D I had. And no, I did not work outside in Costa Rica, office job just a bit later schedule (1pm-9pm), so used to be in the sun for an hour a day before work. Plus they say you cannot get toxicity from the sun. So I am wondering what is it: is maybe the norm incorrect and toxic is not actually toxic? is the test incorrect and it does not show the true situation, from what I understand if you have very high levels it may mean that vitamin D is just floating there as it's not in use? Can you actually get very high levels from sun alone? Or am I weird? Or maybe I am missing something else...

 

[LLight]

We might not get enough of the dieatary D-Vitaminoids that are classified as Ecdysteroids at the moment

If I remember correctly when I checked last time, I read that grains like quinoa was a good source of vitamin D1.
What do you think is the best source?

 

[LeeLemonoil]

Spinache, quinoa, some other vegetables. It seems that the plants highest in Ecdysteroids are not part of human diet. I have no clue how to square the claim that Ecdysteroids might be a required Vitamin(oid) but humans no longer consume the sources.
Insects are high in Ecdysteroids. Maybe some of our ancestors and evolutionary ancestors are said plants and insects in higher amounts but human get enough other D-vitaminoids in fish, eggs, etc

 

[MitchMitchell]

I’m wondering if all those people with low vitamin D levels have it this way because they eat so much calcium. So the “low” vitamin D is a normal reaction to all the dairy.

It’s as per the figure I shared if blood calcium is high serum vitamin D is low.

vitamin D should be given strictly in case of high PTH... I think serum 25OHD is useless

 

[Giraffe]

I’m wondering if all those people with low vitamin D levels have it this way because they eat so much calcium. So the “low” vitamin D is a normal reaction to all the dairy.

It’s as per the figure I shared if blood calcium is high serum vitamin D is low.

vitamin D should be given strictly in case of high PTH... I think serum 25OHD is useless

You still have not understood that vitamin D is not synonymous with calcitriol.

See here: KMUD: 11-18-16 Vitamin D
and the links I have given you before in this thread.

 

[Giraffe]

Maybe. But I also live in Europe where we have 8 months season with almost no sun and I still have my levels after winter relatively high (almost at the lowest range of the "norm" if you actually believe that 25D test is adequate for testing vitamin D levels in the first place). By the way, after I lived for 1 year in Costa Rica and had my test done even one winter later (meaning 1 year in Costa Rica + 8 months in European winter) my results came back as toxic level, that's how much vitamin D I had. And no, I did not work outside in Costa Rica, office job just a bit later schedule (1pm-9pm), so used to be in the sun for an hour a day before work. Plus they say you cannot get toxicity from the sun. So I am wondering what is it: is maybe the norm incorrect and toxic is not actually toxic? is the test incorrect and it does not show the true situation, from what I understand if you have very high levels it may mean that vitamin D is just floating there as it's not in use? Can you actually get very high levels from sun alone? Or am I weird? Or maybe I am missing something else...

This makes no sense. Maybe the lab did a mistake? Why did you have your levels tested?

 

[Hirri]

This makes no sense. Maybe the lab did a mistake? Why did you have your levels tested?

I used to check my vitamin levels regularly before I stopped believing in serum 25OHD. Maybe a mistake. Who knows..

 

[laleto12]

Vitamin D supplementation gives me insomnia after a few days, anyone have any idea on why that happens?

Transdermal or Oral doesnt matter.

 

[Hirri]

Vitamin D supplementation gives me insomnia after a few days, anyone have any idea on why that happens?

Transdermal or Oral doesnt matter.

same here, another reason why I stopped using it. This guy writes about the same issue in his blog Can Supplementing Too Much Vitamin D Cause Insomnia? - Insomniac Next Door
And I also met many people in Insomnia forums who concur.

 

[ilhanxx]

supplementing d before bed cause insomnia. I observed many times myself. vitd is keypoint, %98 of people suffer from d deficiency in my country. My level is very low side, supplementing or sunbathing don't solve my problem. I have enough uvb under sunlight and but again low.

 

[MitchMitchell]

supplementing d before bed cause insomnia. I observed many times myself. vitd is keypoint, %98 of people suffer from d deficiency in my country. My level is very low side, supplementing or sunbathing don't solve my problem. I have enough uvb under sunlight and but again low.

Do you or your country eat a lot of calcium, how about sodium magnesium..

 

[rei]

Vitamin D supplementation gives me insomnia after a few days, anyone have any idea on why that happens?

Transdermal or Oral doesnt matter.

I saw a lecture about vitamin d on youtube where the doctor found it cures insomnia, but that it easily can come back quite soon. She traced the effect to some b vitamin (cannot remember) and her solution was B50 supplement. Supplementing D depleted the stores and intestinal bacteria dysfunction prevented enough of it being manufactured/absorbed.

 

[Maljam]

But they are not saying that vitamin D is bad, they just say that you should get it from sun or food and that the tests that doctors do are inaccurate and many people simply don't have deficiency if they spend enough time in the sun and don't use sunscreens.

What about people that live in cold dark countries, or people that are required to work during daylight hours? The anti vitamin-Ders seem to gloss over people that simply can't get enough sun.

 

[redsun]

What about people that live in cold dark countries, or people that are required to work during daylight hours? The anti vitamin-Ders seem to gloss over people that simply can't get enough sun.

Cold dark countries have pale skinned people which help them make more vitamin D. Also they consume vitamin D from foods as animal products are always heavy in the diet for them. Eggs, fish, dairy...

 

[Hirri]

Cold dark countries have pale skinned people which help them make more vitamin D. Also they consume vitamin D from foods as animal products are always heavy in the diet for them. Eggs, fish, dairy...

Exactly. I come from cold dark country myself. I mean how did my parents and grandparents even survived then without vitamin D and they are all doing fine. Never used any sunscreens in summer and of course never been vegans/vegetarians.