If Calcification Is The Root Of Hair Loss - How To Reverse It? (Magnesium , D, A, K2, Potassium)

[Elephanto]

One thing that is often true with polyphenols, for the one that actually have any beneficial effects, is that they are only good in moderation. Notice how I mentioned it having a negative effect when consumed daily, net benefits were and are still present with occassional use.

Peat also made contradicting statements about Naringenin from Oranges, at times stressing the importance of its negative effects so go figure.

Peat about Naringenin :

For example, the flavonoids, naringenin, quercetin and kaempherol (kaempherol is an antioxidant, a phytoestrogen, and a mutagen) modify the metabolism of estradiol, causing increased bioavailability of both estrone and estradiol.

Similarly, several flavonoids (naringenin, hesperetin, kaempferol, quercetin, rutin, flavone, alpha-naphthoflavone and beta-naphthoflavone) also inhibited rat liver microsomal glucuronidation of estrone and estradiol to varying degrees.

But in another article, mentions :

“Orange juice contains the antiinflammatory chemicals naringin and naringenin, which protect against endotoxin by suppressing the formation of nitric oxide and prostaglandins (Shiratori, et al., 2005).”

“Substances that inhibit inflammation are likely to also inhibit excessive collagen synthesis, serotonin secretion, and the formation of estrogen. Besides aspirin, some effective substances are apigenin and naringenin, found in oranges and guavas.

Seems more like a case of forgetting about some of its estrogenic effects if the articles were written years apart, since he stressed it (and the importance of glucuronidation) several times, than advicing Naringenin with both pros and cons in mind. There are many phytoestrogens that have studies showing beneficial effects but he still strongly advices against them. That's one reason why I wouldn't do a diet high in Oranges but would rather consume them in small quantities.

For reference, glucuronidation is the detoxification of Estrogen into less active metabolites by the liver. Selfhacked has a page that adresses its factors :
Increasing Glucuronidation: Detox Bad Estrogens, Balance Hormones, Prevent Cancer - Selfhacked
(like everything on Selfhacked, research should be done before trying a supplement because there's often a lack of general context and of verification that these effects are present in physiological doses and not only in impossibly high ones)

 

[Elephanto]

Allright. You do raise an interesting case there between lemons and orange juice. I'm gonna try switching oranges for limes or lemons and see if it makes a difference
Oh that was actual serious advise? Dont you know I was recovering from anhedonia by SSRI via Saint Johns wort to upregulate serotonin receptors. Im still working it but I dont have the resources now.

You're saying that you're trying to upregulate serotonin receptors to fix damage from SSRI ? Saint John's Wort is indeed serotogenic. A general protective measure against Serotonin is keeping CO2 chronically high, mainly from optimal breathing technique but Baking Soda and Bag Breathing several times a day also help. Reducing Iron (grounded coriander seeds, blood donation) and Tryptophan (BCAA+Tyrosine, Phenylalanine, decreased protein intake), using Lysine, Salt, B1, Palmitic Acid (2-3g), calcium receptor antagonists (Magnesium, Selenium, Zinc), avoiding darkness, using blue-blocking glasses and incandescent lights are other good methods with long-term effects.

 

[General Orange]

"Expression of inducible NOS (iNOS) occurs in conditions of inflammation, and produces large amounts of NO. In pathological conditions iNOS is regarded as a harmful enzyme and is proposed to be a major contributor to diseases of the cardiovascular system such as atherosclerosis."

“Orange juice contains the antiinflammatory chemicals naringin and naringenin, which protect against endotoxin by suppressing the formation of nitric oxide and prostaglandins (Shiratori, et al., 2005).”

“Substances that inhibit inflammation are likely to also inhibit excessive collagen synthesis, serotonin secretion, and the formation of estrogen. Besides aspirin, some effective substances are apigenin and naringenin, found in oranges and guavas.

- In this case. This means they inhibit iNOS and that is a good to inhibit

 

[General Orange]

You're saying that you're trying to upregulate serotonin receptors to fix damage from SSRI ? Saint John's Wort is indeed serotogenic. A general protective measure against Serotonin is keeping CO2 chronically high, mainly from optimal breathing technique but Baking Soda and Bag Breathing several times a day also help. Reducing Iron (grounded coriander seeds, blood donation) and Tryptophan (BCAA+Tyrosine, Phenylalanine, decreased protein intake), using Lysine, Salt, calcium receptor antagonists (Magnesium, Selenium, Zinc), avoiding darkness, using blue-blocking glasses and incandescent lights are other good methods with long-term effects.

Yeah thats right. But that is used for serotonin density in the brain via Hypericin extract. Next time im gonna use an extract standardizes for Hyperforin, hope that gives better result coz Im still somewhat depersonalized. Thanks for the advise. I avoid tryptophan from fruit. I use red light filters. CO2 from baking soda in OJ.

 

[General Orange]

Contrary to the iNOS suppresion there is eNOS inhibition and estrogen receptor activation.
We see in this study

"Both naringenin and hesperetin were observed to promote growth of MCF-7 cells under greatly reduced estrogen conditions and to suppress estrogen-induced response. Naringenin activated both ERalpha and ERbeta, whereas hesperetin exhibited stronger potential to activate ERalpha rather than ERbeta. Hesperetin, but not naringenin, increased NO releases from human umbilical vein endothelial cells in a dose-dependent manner. ...hesperetin up-regulated endothelium nitric oxide synthase (eNOS) expression.
These results suggested that hesperetin exerts an antiatherogenic effect, in part, via ER-mediated eNOS expression and subsequent increase of endothelial NO production. Distinct effects of naringenin and hesperetin on NO production also imply that ERalpha might play the major role in estrogen-induced eNOS expression. .. "

[EDIT However, the inefficacy of naringenin on NO production remains to be elaborately studied. Our findings add more proof to the molecular explanations for the health benefits of citrus used to prevent cardiovascular disease, especially for postmenopausal women. ]

 

[Elephanto]

"Expression of inducible NOS (iNOS) occurs in conditions of inflammation, and produces large amounts of NO. In pathological conditions iNOS is regarded as a harmful enzyme and is proposed to be a major contributor to diseases of the cardiovascular system such as atherosclerosis."
- In this case. This means they inhibit iNOS and that is a good to inhibit

Yes but I was pointing out estrogenic effects that he stressed about. When there are dozens of substances that inhibit Nitric Oxide and either don't affect Estrogen or also inhibits it, why even consider it.

About breathing, I think it's such an overlooked factor. I'm just gonna quote a reply I gave with an anectodal report (take it for what it's worth) :

Breathing habit has the biggest impact on CO2 levels. You want to control both inhalation and exhalation, so that they are relatively slow (no need to make it a point to inhale as short as possible, otherwise you might reach hypoxia), but the exhalation should be longer. I think it also helps to breath down to the belly like some Yoga techniques teach about, basically to not have a shallow breath. Calmly breathing into a bag for 2 mins several times a day will also help. Baking soda increases CO2 a lot, the optimal effect is seen at 4 tsps a day but it should be away from meals to not counter gut acidity. B1 is shown to increase CO2 because it assists with glucose metabolism (switching from fat oxidation to glucose oxidation), as do lower fat intake, lower stress, Palmitic Acid and Niacinamide by inhibiting lipolysis.

Breathing is what you do most so it has the biggest impact, I remember this singer who has a perfect hairline into his 30s and his dad is bald, he had major panic attacks and generally high stress during his adolescence. He shared only one trick as if it was the most important one that fixed his stress issues : it was to focus on his breathing, through the nose and in a controlled way whenever he felt stress increasing. I'm still exploring to this day the extent of proper breathing habits being one of the most important keys to good physical and mental health. Having chronically high CO2 is extremely effective at preventing calcification and hairline recession.

edit : This made me think of your comment suggesting that if the adrenaline reaction from coffee makes limbs colder, it must have to do with low androgens (which from observation isn't my case). Actually I think it's more the shallow and rapid breathing I develop when stressed from too much caffeine, decreasing CO2 that is crucial in optimal blood circulation.

 

[General Orange]

I can only think of Peat reasons to promote those citrus bioflavonoids coz he chooses fruits that has a positive calcium:potassium ratio. Gives more priority to food for reducing systemic inflammation and endotoxin which inturn could also can cause estrogenic responses then citrus's side effects of weak estrogenic activity that seem pretty low in contrast with E1 and E2 and also just seem high in the in vitro tests. But in vivo the estrogenic effect is probably not practical. See here:

Naringenin-type flavonoids show different estrogenic effects in mammalian and teleost test systems. - PubMed - NCBI
"The estrogenic activity of several intermediary plant compounds has raised concern about possible risks of unwanted interference with endocrine regulation, but on the other hand there are potential medical benefits, in particular in treatment of menopausal symptoms or cancer.
In the present study, we compare the estrogenic effects of phytoestrogens naringenin, 8-prenylnaringenin, 6-(1,1-dimethylallyl)naringenin, and the synthetic 4'-acetyl-7-prenyloxynaringenin. Two mammalian in vitro systems and a fish in vivo system were used to study the estrogenic properties with reference to genistein, 17-beta-estradiol or ethynylestradiol. Strong differences were observed between the mammalian in vitro and the fish in vivo test system. In the medaka sex reversal/vtg gene expression assay no estrogenic effects of the naringenin-type flavonoids were observed, while mammalian in vitro systems showed a similar and graded response to the test compounds. "

4 Teaspoons of baking soda a day !? shoot, need to up this then.
Im somewhat a shallow breather, ex smoker, but because of smoking I did developed a controlled slower exhale than inhaling tho.

 

[Elephanto]

@General Orange Yes possible but your study doesn't contradict the effect of Naringenin on liver glucuronidation of Estrogen, it is an important factor so it would need more investigation.

The 4tsps dose is the one to increase blood oxygenation levels back to ideal/youthful ones (99%), since CO2 increases cell oxygenation. It's 1 tsp 4 times a day btw, not 4 tsps in one sitting. Another possible method would be one that was shared by a forum member about mixing baking soda and vinegar in a large bottle to create a CO2 reaction and breathe in, it seemed effective when I tried.

 

[General Orange]

@Elephanto said:

edit : This made me think of your comment suggesting that if the adrenaline reaction from coffee makes limbs colder, it must have to do with low androgens (which from observation isn't my case). Actually I think it's more the shallow and rapid breathing I develop when stressed from too much caffeine, decreasing CO2 that is crucial in optimal blood circulation.

Well, this might interest you:
As we know testosterone can be used via aromatase to convert to estrogen which, turns out, can activate eNOS for vasodilation. But when adrenaline/epinephrine comes by (coffee) and contract arteries and when the aromatase activity is low there is a bad vascular dilation. This could mean T is low or your endothelial aromatase expression is downregulated somehow. DHEA also increases eNOS activity. But progestins /finasteride can inhibit gene transcription of eNOS and its enzymatic activity.

"In addition to these two mechanisms by which 17-β estradiol increases eNOS activity, given the pleiotropic nature of estrogen effects, a number of other pathways may also affect levels of NO.
...
Androgens...
However, studies in both humans and animals indicate that, in the male vasculature, aromatase-derived estrogen may have important effects on endothelial function and NO production [56]. In a group of young men administered an aromatase inhibitor for 1 month, endothelial function, as determined by flow-mediated dilatation of the brachial artery, was significantly decreased compared to baseline [46]. Studies in male aromatase-knockout mice also suggest that estrogen, produced by the action of aromatase, modulates NOS activity in the endothelium [39]. .. Thus, it seems that testosterone can influence endothelial NO production indirectly through aromatase-dependent metabolism to estrogen and subsequent stimulation of eNOS and NO production through mechanisms outlined above... "

Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) increases eNOS activity by both genomic and non-genomic mechanisms, perhaps through activation of a specific receptor [85].

"High concentrations of progesterone, the naturally occurring ligand, and the synthetic progestin [or finasteride], medroxyprogesterone acetate, also bind to glucocorticoid receptors [18, 105, 106] which inhibit gene transcription of eNOS and its enzymatic activity as described in the next section. ..."

Hormonal modulation of endothelial NO production

 

[Elephanto]

@General Orange Consider that I've been frequently using many potent NO-inhibiting agents in high doses for years. Some having permanent effects (like Arginine, Iron, Endotoxins, Inflammation reduction, repletion of Zinc) unless a drastic change is introduced. Low NO + temporarily lower CO2 will make cold hands/feets more likely than if one is high in NO.

Interesting bit about DHEA though, which is triggered during stress, and is significantly higher in balding men. As for Testosterone conversion into Estrogen, a low stress state mainly prevents significant aromatization but I've also been using many anti-aromatase, anti-cortisol vitamins/minerals/supps and correcting factors that leads to low SHBG.

Low NO isn't a sign of low androgens.

 

[General Orange]

Well I have never experienced cold hands from more rapid breathing due to high dose coffee.

"Low NO + temporarily lower CO2 will make cold hands/feets more likely than if one is high in NO." ??

Are you saying hig NO does not dilate blood vessels? or low CO2 + hihg NO doesn't ?

 

[General Orange]

You confusing me and fail to differentiate between iNOS and eNOS inhibitors.
Arginine is not an NO inhibitor. it induce eNOS.

 

[Elephanto]

How did you understand that I was implying that Arginine inhibits NO ? I was listing the NO-inhibiting factors (Arginine reduction) that have permanent effects. And I also implied that NO is vasodilatating, not the opposite, and so when both CO2 and NO are low it makes cold limbs from stress more likely. I think it was pretty clear. One thing I fail at is seeing where you get the idea that I don't differentiate iNOS from eNOS, which I haven't even discussed. Chill a bit my dude, you're looking for arguments where there aren't (which is actually a Serotonin-related behavior).

 

[General Orange]

How did you understand that I was implying that Arginine inhibits NO ? I was listing the NO-inhibiting factors (Arginine reduction) that have permanent effects. And I also implied that NO is vasodilatating, not the opposite, and so when both CO2 and NO are low it makes cold limbs from stress more likely. I think it was pretty clear. Chill a bit my dude, you're looking for arguments where there aren't (which is actually a Serotonin-related behavior).

You misinterpret Sir im not looking for arguments, im just trying to understand coz you are just so confusing. Oh Arginine reduction. I see

 

[General Orange]

@Elephanto Sounds tom me like you could use l-citrulline though to increase arginine, maybe that will help you get better bloodflow? Or are you somehow against raising arginine, if so why?

 

[Elephanto]

@General Orange I think you're confusing your own self. You're making associations out of context like implying that low NO is a sign of low androgens while disregarding all the health-deteriorating factors that lead to chronically high NO (correcting the factors leading to low NO). And your proof is partly based on Aromatase which is more likely to be high when androgens are low since they protect against stress and stress promotes Aromatase. (and before you address it, high androgens won't completely negate a cortisol reaction from a too high dose of caffeine, especially when tolerance is low from little habitual consumption)

@Elephanto Sounds tom me like you could use l-citrulline though to increase arginine, maybe that will help you get better bloodflow? Or are you somehow against raising arginine, if so why?

Arginine is a major determinant of NO levels. Haven't we had this discussion on the Scalp Progesterone thread, with Peat's quote about CO2 being the main protective factor of blood circulation and NO having negative effects from promoting excess angiogenesis and inhibiting systemic respiration ? All I need is to not go over my caffeine tolerance (which I could increase if I cared but I'm fine with one coffee daily, which doesn't produce negative effects) or if I do, to focus on my breathing. Otherwise blood flow is excellent, and daily moderate cardio helps while also making me feel good and raising resistance to stresses.

Here's some good reads to supplement everything Peat has already written about Arginine and Nitric Oxide :

Arginine Depletion May Be A Viable Approach For Cancer

The Nitric Oxide (NO) Theory Of Aging

Btw, I don't make it a strategy to completely deplete Arginine, as lowering Estrogen, Cortisol, Iron, Endotoxins and using essential minerals/vitamins with NO inhibiting functions is good enough in my experience, but I won't purposefully try to increase it either. I think Arginine has functions related to immunity independently of NO so complete depletion is probably not wise in long-term. For what it's worth, I can't remember the last time I've been sick (like 5+ years).

 

[General Orange]

@Elephanto Thank you for your elaboration. I appreciate it!

Well, I think it's incorrect to speak of NO in general like it's a bad thing and demonize it coz Peat talked about it, or his followers. I say NO is needed to keep arteries healthy.
Yeah I do agree with the general view of iNOS suppression and we have to be careful with NO triggering in general. Thats why we should not increase estrogen-NO function I guess.
Only to fix things I think we need to cross a line sometimes. In the case of arterial calcification that is so. And then my finding say, we should try to support eNOS function, as a temporary aid. And further with selected supplements that increase melatonin via pro serotonin / pro acetylcholine to aid in repair. Which people here don't like to hear haha coz it's "ANTI-PEAT" but I dont care about that if it's needed to fix things we have broken.

 

[General Orange]

From The Nitric Oxide (NO) Theory Of Aging

Speaking of "tryptophan depletion (ATD). ATD causes daramatic drop in levels of both NO and its precursors arginine and citrulline, which probably explains many of the life-extending effects of tryptophan-restricted diets." -Haidut
-I think this is really silly and will lead to cardiovascular problems.

edit: reference

 

[Arrade]

From The Nitric Oxide (NO) Theory Of Aging

Speaking of "tryptophan depletion (ATD). ATD causes daramatic drop in levels of both NO and its precursors arginine and citrulline, which probably explains many of the life-extending effects of tryptophan-restricted diets." -Haidut
-I think this is really silly and will lead to cardiovascular problems.

edit: reference

TBH I don’t understand the nitric oxide stuff myself

 

[General Orange]

TBH I don’t understand the nitric oxide stuff myself

Nitric oxide and arterial disease
One of the earliest processes identifiable in the development of atherosclerosis is endothelial dysfunction. The elaboration of NO is crucial to the normal homeostatic function of the endothelium. Patients with developing atherosclerosis have reduced NO bioavailability in both the coronary and peripheral vasculature.
The importance of NO in atherogenesis was suggested in mice deficient in apolipoprotein E (apoE), in which atherosclerotic lesions developed spontaneously when eNOS was also deleted. Compared with ApoE knockout mice, ApoE-eNOS double-knockout mice showed accelerated atherosclerotic plaque formation. Similarly, NOS inhibition in ApoE knockout mice increased atherogenesis. The overexpression of eNOS in transgenic mice leads to a decrease in blood pressure and plasma cholesterol levels, and a 40% reduction in atherosclerotic lesion formation. However, evidence also suggests that NO may be involved in atherogenesis. ApoE-iNOS double-knockout mice demonstrate reduced atherosclerotic plaque formation. This suggests that NO derived from eNOS may protect the vasculature from atherosclerosis, whereas NO from iNOS may promote lesion formation.

Arginine - Scientific Review on Usage, Dosage, Side Effects
Citrulline - Scientific Review on Usage, Dosage, Side Effects