If Calcification Is The Root Of Hair Loss - How To Reverse It? (Magnesium , D, A, K2, Potassium)

[General Orange]

I was talking about the libido 5HT1a and 5HT2c in particular, sorry

 

[General Orange]

Male rat studies demonstrate that serotonin and 5-HT receptors are involved in the ejaculatory process. The speed of ejaculation appears to be determined by 5-HT2C and 5-HT1A receptors. Stimulation of 5-HT2C receptors with non-selective 5-HT2C agonists delays ejaculation in male rats whereas stimulation of postsynaptic 5-HT1A receptors resulted in shorter ejaculation latency (Ahlenius et al 1981). Administration of SSRIs results in active blockade of presynaptic membrane 5-HT transporters, and the resultant higher synaptic cleft levels of 5-HT activate post-synaptic 5-HT2C and 5-HT1A receptors and delay ejaculation (Olivier et al 1998; Waldinger, Berendsen et al 1998).

edit link

 

[Arrade]

Im being confrontational aggressive.
You cannot possibly "tele-identify" someones neurotransmitter profile by interpreting someones messages that have somewhat aggressive and confrontational form and then stigmatizing them with "serotonin dominant" stereotype seems delusional to me. Probably because of the influence of misinterpreted stories about serotonin neurotransmitter levels theory back traceable to SSRI drug companies mixed with one of Peats articles about LSD and serotonin.

Neuro receptor upregulation (more input needed for the same effects) is not the same as enzyme upregulation (more effectiveness)

I think you can it’s called psychology which I studied

 

[Arrade]

@Elephanto endurance athletes also hold the least amount of muscle mass, and their training style is basically the opposite of Olympic Weightlifters

 

[Arrade]

@Elephanto
I have experienced downregulated serotonin receptors first hand, from MDMA abuse. And when downregulated, the inflow of serotonin will have an increased effect. Hence when an increased inflow of serotonin (agonist) is detected, the receptors will get downregulated so the net activity will be less, for the brain want to get in homeostasis. Afterwards stopping the increased inflow / drug there are less receptor and can be activated by just a little serotonin.
But if you apply serotonin antagonist the receptors will upregulate and increase in density, that afterwards more infow of serotonin is needed for an effect.

Now you have me trying to remember what happens in the synaptic cleft haha. You may be right
@Elephanto i’ll try to remember to read those, i stayed up too late tonight
Peace

 

[Elephanto]

But if you apply serotonin antagonist the receptors will upregulate and increase in density, that afterwards more infow of serotonin is needed for an effect.

True but so far the strategies you mention are about using Serotonin agonists, not antagonists. And I didn't think you were specifically talking about receptor densities when you mentioned "upregulation", I thought you refered to agonism since you used it as an argument to defend a Serotonin agonist. MDMA is neurotoxic and likely to lead to chronically high cortisol (which increases Serotonin), what you interpret as a "lack of Serotonin" may be the result of other effects. Most of the things I've adviced you on Serotonin are more deeply systemic, attacking the issue at its root and from the other factors that promote it (same for NO). Essential minerals/vitamins with NMDA, Nitric Oxide or general stress antagonism and Amino Acids that potentiate negative factors are stored in the body (or contribute to long-lasting cycles), they don't only produce a temporary effect.

As for the herbs/spices, some of the ones you mentioned raise NO (Gingko Biloba), have contraceptive or anti-androgenic effects (Cat's Claw, Licorice), Ginseng activates 5-ht2a and in some cases ER-Alpha, some potentiate CAMP which in excess promotes tumor growth. Despite these trade-offs, some of them can still have net beneficial effects in moderation. Using an herb with serotonin agonistic properties every day is likely to affect you negatively but the potency of Ashwaghanda at positively shifting various parameters can have long-lasting effects that do not require continual usage. If you take your time to examine every mechanisms an herb has, you will most likely arrive at the same conclusion I did. It's just how nature works.

 

[Arrade]

True but so far the strategies you mention are about using Serotonin agonists, not antagonists. And I didn't think you were specifically talking about receptor densities when you mentioned "upregulation", I thought you refered to agonism since you used it as an argument to defend a Serotonin agonist. MDMA is neurotoxic and likely to lead to chronically high cortisol (which increases Serotonin), what you interpret as a "lack of Serotonin" may be the result of other effects. Most of the things I've adviced you on Serotonin are more deeply systemic, attacking the issue at its root and from the other factors that promote it (same for NO). Essential minerals with NMDA, Nitric Oxide or general stress antagonism and Amino Acids that potentiate negative factors are stored in the body, they don't only produce a temporary effect.

As for the herbs/spices, some of the ones you mentioned raise NO (Gingko Biloba), have contraceptive or anti-androgenic effects (Cat's Claw, Licorice), Ginseng activates 5-ht2a and in some cases ER-Alpha, some potentiate CAMP which in excess promotes tumor growth. Despite these trade-offs, some of them can still have net beneficial effects in moderation. Using an herb with serotonin agonistic properties every day is likely to affect you negatively but the potency of Ashwaghanda at positively shifting various parameters can have long-lasting effects that do not require continual usage. If you take your time to examine every mechanisms an herb has, you will most likely arrive at the same conclusion I did. It's just how nature works.

Dang u know a lot. Glad you share in my apprehensive hypothesis that cycling herbs could have a net effect. If ashwagandha fixes thyroid after a year of use it would be worth any mental detriment that would pass in time with a healthy individual.

I wish you had serious hypo, so I could use what you would implement to really treat it.

How do you feel about coffee and or caffeine while decalcifying? I heard it may negatively impact magnesium use
Also how do you feel about it for androgen

 

[Elephanto]

@Arrade

You should listen to your body to determine if coffee is beneficial or not for you, I think when it produces a stressing effect it's negative (for calcification among other things). The problem is that nowadays, a lot of people don't listen to their bodies and sustain stressing habits/foods for years and deteriorate without ever reviewing what they're doing wrong. The stress can even be seen as positive in some (exciting), or they forgot how it is to think in a low stress state so they perceive it as normalcy. As a dopamine agonist, one or so coffee daily should be good for Testosterone and it is reflected in epidemiological studies. Another sign to look for would be intestinal comfort, if it's gut irritating then the net effect is probably negative. Cream (Palmitic Acid as an androgen agonist and cortisol antagonist) should make it more beneficial, ideally an organic brand that doesn't have carrageenan or gums.

 

[General Orange]

@Elephanto Im just glad I found st Johns wort and that it was helpful with my MDMA / SSRI anhedonia and depersonalization issues.
Thanks for the general warning on herbal use, they should be cycled indeed. Some are bad for liver. Most of them stop working after a year of continuous use. Others need few months of taking them to work. They are a pain in the **** to figure out, but I like the challenge. Personally I'll be making my own regimen formula with Licorce root coz it is one of my favorites great with some rum haha.

@Arrade Thanks for bringing the focus back on topic decalification!
I think caffeine is good against serotonin excess and a good support for cardiovascular system. some studies say 3 cups a day keeps arteries clean from calcification (calcium phosphate)

btw I read Ashwagandha makes changes to mRNA receptor level when repartitioning 5HT1a to 5HT2c, so after a few month use it could have permanent effects. Useful for Premature Ejaculation cases.

 

[Watson350]

@Elephanto Im just glad I found st Johns wort and that it was helpful with my MDMA / SSRI anhedonia and depersonalization issues.
Thanks for the general warning on herbal use, they should be cycled indeed. Some are bad for liver. Most of them stop working after a year of continuous use. Others need few months of taking them to work. They are a pain in the **** to figure out, but I like the challenge. Personally I'll be making my own regimen formula with Licorce root coz it is one of my favorites great with some rum haha.

@Arrade Thanks for bringing the focus back on topic decalification!
I think caffeine is good against serotonin excess and a good support for cardiovascular system. some studies say 3 cups a day keeps arteries clean from calcification (calcium phosphate)

btw I read Ashwagandha makes changes to mRNA receptor level when repartitioning 5HT1a to 5HT2c, so after a few month use it could have permanent effects. Useful for Premature Ejaculation cases.

Would you say you experienced HPPD symptoms?

 

[General Orange]

Would you say you experienced HPPD symptoms?

No, that did not happen. I think that is with LSD and mushrooms.

edit, with st johns wort i did experience closed eye visuals for a few days

 

[Elephanto]

btw I read Ashwagandha makes changes to mRNA receptor level when repartitioning 5HT1a to 5HT2c, so after a few month use it could have permanent effects. Useful for Premature Ejaculation cases.

Well the 5-HT2c receptor increases fibrosis (calcification) :
5-HT2A & 5-HT2C Can Be Fibrotic Too
5-ht2c antagonists also decrease cortisol synthesis, can reverse Autism :
Successful Antidepressant Drugs Are Glucocorticoid Antagonists
Serotonin Causes Autism; Blocking It May Treat Autism
Gives even more importance to using Ashwaghanda in moderation. I'm no herbalist but that is how the famed ones treat patients with it, that is in very temporary protocols, sometimes just one ashwaghanda tea is enough to put back the system on wheels with no need for recurrent use.

About libido :
Serotonin's effect on premature ejaculation isn't one of promoting libido but the opposite. Dopamine promotes high libido and in excess, hypersexuality; Serotonin is a general inhibiting neurotransmitter so it makes sense that it would prevent it as well as decreasing libido. An high Dopamine state implies low Serotonin so by that alone, its beneficial effect on libido is very unlikely. Serotonin is also not a requirement to avoid premature ejaculation, as high Histamine also causes it. The wide systemic approach of reducing stress and excicotoxicity (reducing Histamine/mast cells activation, cholinergism, NMDA and calcium channel receptors, Endotoxins etc) is likely to fix it and Magnesium has profound effects on all these parameters. CO2 also has inhibiting effect on mast cells. O6 promotes their activation. Vit A, D, P-5-P and Zinc are generally anti-stress.

 

[General Orange]

The Methyl Xanthine Caffeine Inhibits DNA Damage Signaling and Reactive Species and Reduces Atherosclerosis in ApoE−/− Mice
Caffeine remains one of the most widely consumed drugs in the world. Caffeine has multiple actions, including inhibition of the DNA damage response, and its metabolites, 1-methylxanthine and 1-methyluric acid, are potent antioxidants. Combined, these properties can exert direct effects on cell proliferation, cell death, inflammation, and DNA repair, all important processes that occur in atherosclerosis.

We first examined the effects of caffeine on mouse vascular smooth muscle cells. Caffeine inhibited activation of the DNA damage response regulator ataxia telangiectasia mutated protein and its downstream targets. Caffeine delayed DNA repair, had a concentration-dependent effect on cell proliferation, and protected against apoptosis. In vitro caffeine reduced oxygen consumption and decreased generation of reactive oxygen species. In vivo caffeine reduced DDR activation in vascular and nonvascular tissues, reduced reactive nitrogen species and serum levels of the DNA adduct 8-oxo-guanine, and inhibited atherogenesis in fat−fed ApoE−/− mice. Reduction in atherosclerosis was independent of the effects on blood pressure and serum lipids but associated with reduced cell proliferation and ataxia telangiectasia mutated protein activation.
Conclusion—
The Methyl Xanthine caffeine inhibits the DNA damage response in vitro and in vivo, regulates both cell proliferation and apoptosis after DNA damage, inhibits reactive species, and reduces atherogenesis in ApoE−/− mice.

[Apolipoprotein E (ApoE) is a class of proteins involved in the metabolism of fats in the body. Lipoproteins are molecules composed of fats and proteins.]

 

[General Orange]

^follow up
Quantitative analysis of vascular calcification
*The process of vascular calcification shares many similarities with that of skeletal mineralization. However, while skeletal mineralization is a regulated process, induced by complex, well-timed developmental cues, vascular calcification is a pathological process that occurs in response to factors such as smoking, diabetes or uremia (1).
The mechanisms underlying vascular calcification have yet to be elucidated. Vascular smooth muscle cells (VSMCs) are currently considered to be responsible for the formation of vascular calcification. Trion and van der Laarse (6), as well as Shroff and Shanahan (11), suggested that the apoptosis of VSMCs appeared to be a key factor in this process, while other factors, including cell-to-cell interactions between macrophages and VSMCs, lipids and plasma inorganic phosphate levels, modulated the calcification process.
Proudfoot et al(12) suggested that the inhibition of apoptosis also inhibited vascular calcification, and that the stimulation of apoptosis promoted this process, providing a strong correlation between apoptosis and the initiation of vascular calcification. Ewence et al(13) suggested that calcium phosphate crystals initiated inflammation and led to VSMC apoptosis.


*
Effects of caffeine on bone and the calcium economy. - PubMed - NCBI
"Caffeine-containing beverage consumption has been reported to be associated with reduced bone mass and increased fracture risk in some, but not most, observational studies. ... The negative effect of caffeine on calcium absorption is small enough to be fully offset by as little as 1-2 tablespoons of milk."

"Lastly, given the ability of caffeine to induce apoptosis or cell injury in osteoblasts in vitro, [OSTEOBLASTS are the cells that form new bone. ]
we examined its effects on bone density in an animal assay model. Rats administered 10 or 20 μM caffeine in the drinking water for 8 months displayed significantly decreased bone mineral density (BMD), compared to untreated control rats, further signifying that caffeine consumption negatively affects bone density (Figure 9)." link


- Indeed caffeine can somewhat reduce mineralization of bone and has protective effect in vascular calcifation.

 

[Elephanto]

Now to find people who drink 5+ cups of coffee a day and are as bald as an egg, shouldn't be too hard.

Cortisol responses to mental stress and the progression of coronary artery calcification in healthy men and women. - PubMed - NCBI

[Role of cortisol hypersecretion in the pathogenesis of osteoporosis]. - PubMed - NCBI
(The loss of calcium from bones is what allows the "Calcium phosphate" in your studies to interact with arteries and soft tissues)

Cortisol stimulation of parathyroid hormone secretion by rat parathyroid glands in organ culture. - PubMed - NCBI

Correlation between serum parathyroid hormone levels and coronary artery calcification in patients without renal failure

Cortisol And Aldosterone Cause Vascular Calcification

edit : About your study on milk offsetting the reduced calcium absorption, this is not a main cause of calcium loss from bones. Cortisol and Estrogen are, and its negative effects aren't offset by slightly increasing calcium intake.

 

[General Orange]

@Elephanto
So yeah, in a weird way coffee could help somewhat against clogging of arteries and with vascular integrity, BUT will induce boneloss and possibly push this in tissue /scalp, and this bone has to be fixed later by milk.

 

[Elephanto]

I've checked for application in real life :

Coffee consumption and calcified atherosclerotic plaques in the coronary arteries: The NHLBI Family Heart Study

prevalence ratio (95% CI) for CAC was 1.0 (reference), 0.92 (0.57–1.49), 1.34 (0.86–2.08), 1.30 (0.84–2.02), and 0.99 (0.60–1.64) for coffee consumption of almost never, <1/day, 1/day, 2–3/day, and ≥4 cups/day

Here it increases to 34% and 30% more risks at 1 cup per day and 2-3 per day, with 8% reduction risks at less than 1 per day. There is also a large variation (0.86-2.08) giving weight to my theory that its effect probably depends on the extent at which it triggers stress in individuals.

Associations between Coffee, Tea, and Caffeine Intake with Coronary Artery Calcification and Cardiovascular Events

Compared to never coffee drinkers, regular coffee intake (≥1 cup/day) was not statistically associated with coronary artery calcium progression or cardiovascular events

participants who regularly drank tea (≥1 cup per day) had a slower progression of coronary artery calcium compared with never drinkers after multivariable adjustment. This correlated with a statistically significant lower incidence of cardiovascular events for ≥1 cup per day tea drinkers (adjusted hazard ratio 0.71; 95% confidence interval 0.53-0.95)

Here only tea significantly reduced risks by 29% (mainly Theanine being anti-cortisol ?)

Coffee consumption and coronary calcification: the Rotterdam Coronary Calcification Study. - PubMed - NCBI

A nonsignificant inverse relationship was also found in men who smoked, whereas in nonsmoking men a direct association was observed.

Nonsignificant in smoking men but a promoting one in non-smoking men (78% more risks at >4 cups a day, 23% more risks at 3 to 4 cups)

Coffee, Decaffeinated Coffee, Caffeine, and Tea Consumption in Young Adulthood and Atherosclerosis Later in Life: The CARDIA Study
No association found with coffee but a non-significant inverse one with Tea.

Coffee Consumption and Coronary Artery Calcium Score: Cross‐Sectional Results of ELSA‐Brasil (Brazilian Longitudinal Study of Adult Health)

After stratification by smoking status, the analysis revealed a lower OR of coronary calcification in never smokers drinking >3 cups/d (OR: 0.37 [95% confidence interval, 0.15–0.91])

Very interestingly imo, this one done in Brazil is the only one to find a positive effect. It could be due to the fact that life is simpler and not as hectic as modern western lifestyle. Paradoxal if you consider crime rates and such but I observe it from poor environments, people seem to function less on stress. Year-long optimal Vitamin D could also contribute (potently decreases cortisol), maybe better coffee quality and less exposure to blue lights from screens.

So results vary. I think it really depends on the personalities of people, intake of carbs to support its metabolic effect and stress levels at the time of consumption. Personally I like to take coffee when I know I'll be relaxing.

 

[General Orange]

I am IGNORANT of the HT1 vs T2 stuff. I believe it, I imagine since you make serotonin that your body does need a certain form of it in healthy amounts.
You’re coming off kind of viscious here, frankly I only mentioned the serotonin because of my own trepidation.
But the fact you’re pretty sarcastic right now would show excessive serotonin.
Also I think the upregulating would do the opposite and allow more reception of it

Reading back, Im not so sure about my explanation myself anymore. hehe
The 5-HT1a is strange coz it has a (pre)auto-receptor with a negative feedback loop, and a post-synaptic receptor.
To increase serotonin function, we want less activation of the auto-receptors and more activation on the receiving post-synaptic receptors.
Upregulating the post-synapse via an antagonist should increase sensitivity.

 

[Arrade]

I've checked for application in real life :

Coffee consumption and calcified atherosclerotic plaques in the coronary arteries: The NHLBI Family Heart Study

Here it increases to 34% and 30% more risks at 1 cup per day and 2-3 per day, with 8% reduction risks at less than 1 per day. There is also a large variation (0.86-2.08) giving weight to my theory that its effect probably depends on the extent at which it triggers stress in individuals.

Associations between Coffee, Tea, and Caffeine Intake with Coronary Artery Calcification and Cardiovascular Events


Here only tea significantly reduced risks by 29% (mainly Theanine being anti-cortisol ?)

Coffee consumption and coronary calcification: the Rotterdam Coronary Calcification Study. - PubMed - NCBI

Nonsignificant in smoking men but a promoting one in non-smoking men (78% more risks at >4 cups a day, 23% more risks at 3 to 4 cups)

Coffee, Decaffeinated Coffee, Caffeine, and Tea Consumption in Young Adulthood and Atherosclerosis Later in Life: The CARDIA Study
No association found with coffee but a non-significant inverse one with Tea.

Coffee Consumption and Coronary Artery Calcium Score: Cross‐Sectional Results of ELSA‐Brasil (Brazilian Longitudinal Study of Adult Health)

Very interestingly imo, this one done in Brazil is the only one to find a positive effect. It could be due to the fact that life is simpler and not as hectic as modern western lifestyle. Paradoxal if you consider crime rates and such but I observe it from poor environments, people seem to function less on stress. Year-long optimal Vitamin D could also contribute (potently decreases cortisol), maybe better coffee quality and less exposure to blue lights from screens.

So results vary. I think it really depends on the personalities of people, intake of carbs to support its metabolic effect and stress levels at the time of consumption. Personally I like to take coffee when I know I'll be relaxing.

This explains how I felt about it. Drinking black coffee gave me energy but I’d only want to exercise, I would lose motivation to study or do something at a slow pace. I also felt it was bad for the heart and hair, though once a day seems ok.
I think the point about glycogen stores is important, I didn’t get near as bad effects with iced coffee from Dunkin donuts, though it did feel less androgenic

 

[Arrade]

Also the “they don’t drink milk because they use coffee at meals” was almost laughable.
Can’t believe that could be considered a study