The more copper suplement i take the more serum copper and ceruloplasmin deficient i get@Lucas Update ?
Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
Click Here if you want to upgrade your account
If you were able to post but cannot do so now, send an email to admin at raypeatforum dot com and include your username and we will fix that right up for you.
The more copper suplement i take the more serum copper and ceruloplasmin deficient i get@Lucas Update ?
It basically continued for 2-3 weeks total, after that I'm back to basics.How did this continue?
The more copper suplement i take the more serum copper and ceruloplasmin deficient i get
You xould always give MitoSynergy a try: https://www.mitosynergy.com/I have tried liver, shellfish, chocolate, mushrooms, etc. I don't want to risk consuming lots of liver if the issue is really toxicity.
so if youre a carrier its impossible to raise up ceruloplasmin?Ur very likely to be a Wilson's disease carrier. Carriers often have partial dysfunction in that there ceruloplasmin levels are low. It's because the function to bind copper to ceruoplasmin is missing. And the test u did includes copper and the copper bound to ceruloplasmin.
Now since like 60 to 90 percent of copper in body is usually in form Of Ceruoplasmin, ur copper also shows up low. When in actuality its fine. I. Know coz I got same blood work and did all the research plus seeing specialists. What makes u have full Wilson's disease is when u cant get rid of excess copper....
Which hopefully ur body is doin. The eye test is not sufficient for some ppl don't accumulate it in eyes. Best way is to get 24 hour urine test done for.Copper and it is almost always high for anyone with actual Wilson's disease. Luckily mine wasn't. Hopefully and likely urswont be either But good to. Make. Sure
Remember whike it's rare to have Wilson's disease it's actually rare to be a Carrier.
And yes if u did have it Blood copper shows up as low coz its. Accumulating in tissues. But again..
Ur probably a carrier. I spent months researching and losing sleep over this
I've recently asked Ray Peat whether a copper rich diet is sufficient to correct copper deficiency or would he recommend temporary copper supplementation as well.Supplementing copper will not do anything until you resolve your ceruoloplasmin issues (it’ll probably make you worse as you’ll use up vitamin C (I believe, though perhaps there are other mechanisms and I could be wrong) to deal with the unbound copper.
It’s clear your deficiency stems from more than just inadequate copper intake as you should at least have seen a small improvement from supplementing copper.
You’ll need to look at your diet and understand what’s missing as a ceruloplasmin cofactor - you need copper, vitamin a, iron, vitamin c. That’s off the top of my head, please research it! Often it can actually be zinc that’s low - you need adequate zinc to sufficiently transport vitamin A in the body. I believe magnesium is also involved.
This axis is such a balance, I genuinely would try without supplements for a bit. Get sources of all the above in your diet and see what you end up craving maybe. Lamb liver is a great option as it has a better zinc to copper ratio and can be less unbalancing than calves liver, plus lots of vitamin A (again, eat to craving and don’t overcook or it’ll taste horrible!)
In case of impaired calcium metabolism, what would you recommend? More calcium perhaps?Then your body is keeping ceruloplasmin low for a reason.
Is it possible you have calcium/magnesium metabolism issues? Definitely lay off the copper for now!
In case of impaired calcium metabolism, what would you recommend? More calcium perhaps?
The more copper suplement i take the more serum copper and ceruloplasmin deficient i get
You've been taking the wrong type of copper. Search mitosynergy copper
Ever tried high copper intake over weeks , months?My Ceruloplasmin has always been low 14-17, serum copper went lower over the years to now being barely in range (70ug/dl, bottom of range is 70). Plasma copper is 0.62ug/ml, which is low too (bottom of range is 0.80), but RBC copper was normal 0.66 (0.55-1.00 ug/ml). Urine copper is usually very low, I've tested a few times for Wilson's and it has come back as 0 at times.
However, I think to properly investigate this copper issue iron has to be investigated too. I have the H63D gene for hemochromatosis and while ferritin is low (34), my transferrin saturation and serum iron is typically high (sometimes as high as 72%).
Low Ceruloplasmin can cause high ferritin and iron overload but obviously in my case that is not the issue. The issue is actually high transferrin saturation. So Ceruloplasmin must be working, but instead of giving iron to ferritin, Hepcidin tells the body to keep pushing iron into the blood, thus transferrin is the only thing preventing iron from causing bad damage. Ceruloplasmin also mitigates iron toxicity, I believe. So having low Ceruloplasmin is weird. I wonder if it's the bodies way of trying to stop iron from overflowing in the blood? (no Ceruloplasmin in the cell to courier the iron out into the blood?)
Also, I am now taking IP6 to chelate iron from the blood, but as I am worried about copper deficiency, does anyone know if IP6 will also chelate copper? Going to re-test all the values soon so I want to get an accurate reading.
No I am very hesitant about supplementing copper directly. I think the issue is metabolic so I don't think it's merely a deficiency problem. Trying to figure out where the problem lies. Is it excess iron somehow causing down regulation of Ceruloplasmin (i.e. hemochromatosis)?Ever tried high copper intake over weeks , months?
Levels did not go up?
I try to get them up for months. They just don’t.
No I am very hesitant about supplementing copper directly. I think the issue is metabolic so I don't think it's merely a deficiency problem. Trying to figure out where the problem lies. Is it excess iron somehow causing down regulation of Ceruloplasmin (i.e. hemochromatosis)?
I should note that my issues actually started in mid twenties when I started fin coincidentally around the same time. I can't say one caused the other because this is also a time frame where a lot of genetic issues pop up but who knows. Another theory of mine is that fin (which acts like progesterone) raises serum zinc, which potentially blocked copper absorption. So it's like finasteride induced copper deficiency. However, the likelihood of that problem remaining after quitting fin is very low.
But basically copper metabolism depends on iron and zinc and magnesium metabolism as well, so addressing copper in a vacuum is not likely to work.