Sex And Thyroid Hormones, Iodine, Cortisol, Low Libido

[Douglas Ek]

I'm going to talk to my doctor but if I add in the iron, should I still continue on with the NDT?

Whats NDT?

 

[healthnut123]

Whats NDT?

Natural Dessicated Thyroid (like nature throid or armour thyroid), which is a combo of natural T4/T3 to help with hypothyroidism. I just started it this week.

 

[Douglas Ek]

Natural Dessicated Thyroid (like nature throid or armour thyroid), which is a combo of natural T4/T3 to help with hypothyroidism. I just started it this week.

Ah yeah just googled and saw that. No, if it makes you feel better than take that. Only supplements you should be careful with is minerals. Vitamins are alright to take. But most multi-vits contain all the minerals so they no good. In my opinion you should only take minerals that you have a confirmed deficiency in. And you have a confirmed deficiency in iron according to your ferritin I can promise you this. Iron is a very debated subject same goes for copper. Everyone is talking about copper overload and you need to cleanse your copper bla bla bla its all bull****. If you're healthy your body has a ways to regulate copper and can excrete it as needed. Same goes for iron. If you don't have the hemochromatosis gene you are very unlikely to get iron overload. Hemochromatosis patients usually have a ferritin level way over 1000. Same goes for copper. if you dont have wilsons disease you really don't have to worry and if you had any of these genetic disease you would know by the age of 26.

 

[Douglas Ek]

I'm going to talk to my doctor but if I add in the iron, should I still continue on with the NDT?

Hopefully you're doctor will acknowledge your ferritin is low even though the reference range is so wide. I think you should mention your symptoms at the same time like your cold hands and fatigue. I promise once you get on the iron you'll soon realise you feeling like a new human. Please keep me updated in the upcoming months.

 

[Prosper]

@Douglas Ek Thanks for sharing your knowledge. So if for example I know that I have 149 g/l hemoglobin, that doesn't necessary reveal my iron levels?

 

[Marko]

I have the same simptoms like Healthunt123, but I have high hemoglobin 170-180 and erythrocytes 5.5, I have always this value of hemoglobin and erythrocytes

 

[Douglas Ek]

@Douglas Ek Thanks for sharing your knowledge. So if for example I know that I have 149 g/l hemoglobin, that doesn't necessary reveal my iron levels?

No it does not. Your body will always shuttle iron to your bone marrow to synthesize hemoglobin as a priority. You're hemoglobin will only fall once iron is severely depleted. Ferritin is the best measure of your iron status

 

[Douglas Ek]

I have the same simptoms like Healthunt123, but I have high hemoglobin 170-180 and erythrocytes 5.5, I have always this value of hemoglobin and erythrocytes

Whats your ferritin?

 

[Marko]

Whats your ferritin?

My Iron is very good, but ferritin I dont know, I didnt do this lab...
Does it nessesary even my Iron is good?

 

[Douglas Ek]

I believe there's 3 minerals at play here. Zinc, Copper and Iron. Their job is to keep each other working as supposed

My Iron is very good, but ferritin I dont know, I didnt do this lab...
Does it nessesary even my Iron is good?

Yes it's necessary. S-Iron fluctuate a lot depending on what you have eaten. If you eat a steak high in iron then go test yourself you have higher S-Iron. Vitamin-C also increase S-iron. Lots of factors make it unreliable. Ferritin is a protein that stores iron and doesn't fluctuate except if you have inflammation it gets high

 

[Douglas Ek]

My Iron is very good, but ferritin I dont know, I didnt do this lab...
Does it nessesary even my Iron is good?

Think about the Iron lab test as the iron you have right now in your blood. While ferritin is your body's storage or bank of iron and it will only use that when you're iron in the blood is low. Takin iron supplements will first increase your iron in your blood then you will start making the ferritin protein to store and transport iron to where it's needed.

 

[Marko]

Think about the Iron lab test as the iron you have right now in your blood. While ferritin is your body's storage or bank of iron and it will only use that when you're iron in the blood is low. Takin iron supplements will first increase your iron in your blood then you will start making the ferritin protein to store and transport iron to where it's needed.

Doctors told me that I had dense blood due to hemoglobin and erythrocytes and that I should not take iron as a supplement.

Zinc -I took ZMA (zinc, magnezium, vitamin b6) before sleep, but this had a bad influence on me, I wake up swollen and very tired.

 

[Luckytype]

I believe there's 3 minerals at play here. Zinc, Copper and Iron. Their job is to keep each other working as supposed


Yes it's necessary. S-Iron fluctuate a lot depending on what you have eaten. If you eat a steak high in iron then go test yourself you have higher S-Iron. Vitamin-C also increase S-iron. Lots of factors make it unreliable. Ferritin is a protein that stores iron and doesn't fluctuate except if you have inflammation it gets high

Can you give us your opinion on a reasonable range for ferritin to shoot for?

And can you give an idea of the number for healthy people AND metabolically compromised people as I think there is some confusing stuff out there for people

 

[healthnut123]

Based on some reading I've done online, it seems like treating low ferritin, when other iron levels are normal, is potentially dangerous. It sounds like hypothyroidism rather than my iron levels may be the issue, so the thryoid meds should help raise ferritin. I'm going to stick with the NDT thyroid meds for now and then retest iron levels in a few weeks when I retest my thyroid hormones as well. I think it's too risky to just start supplementing iron. Also, I do have the MTHFR mutation so that may be affecting things as well (see below).

"The idea that you can test your blood ferritin levels to diagnose iron-deficiency is a not just a BIG one. It’s misinformation like this that can lead to serious health complications, and even kill you over time. I’ve seen many thyroid advocacy websites claim that thyroid sufferers should always get their ferritin tested. Then, they claim that if you don’t fall within a specific test range you should start blindly supplementing iron until you do. This is a big mistake. Or how about the ones that tell you to supplement iron based on symptoms alone? I see it all the time… “Common symptoms of iron-deficiency include chronic fatigue, hair loss, irregular heart rhythm…” What you might find interesting is that these are also symptoms caused by iron toxicity (too much iron). They are also well known symptoms caused by hypothyroidism... By giving these patients T4-only thyroid medication, their ferritin levels increased significantly. When they gave these patients T3-only thyroid medication, their ferritin levels increased even more, by 23-243%."

- Hypothyroidism and Ferritin: Why You’re Not Iron-Deficient, Why Iron Supplements Can Kill You, and What Test You Need to Run

"Can I ONLY measure ferritin, aka storage iron, and/or treat based on ferritin alone?
Big mistake! Yes, low ferritin can go hand-in-hand with low iron. But low ferritin can also occur with high iron due to the MTHFR mutation, patients have reported discovering i.e. because of the MTHFR mutation, our bodies don’t break down the iron for use, so it goes higher than it should, and storage iron goes down. We might also see a high TIBC with this scenario–another clue that our bodies aren’t breaking iron down for use and thus, putting us in a low iron state. Not everyone gets the high TIBC, but many do.

So by treating that low ferritin alone, we can push our iron and % saturation levels even higher! Not a good thing."

"What causes low ferritin when other labs look great or are even too high? That usually points to an MTHFR mutation and having high heavy metals. You can also see high levels of homocysteine with this defect, as well as higher levels of copper and other metals."

- https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/iron/


"FERRITIN: Optimally, females often are around 70-90 with ferritin (Janie’s is 80 or less when her iron is good)….though getting up to the 50’s has been good, too, when iron and % sat are OPTIMAL. Men tend to be slightly above 100, such as 110 – 120.

Notes: Measures your levels of storage iron. NOTE THAT WE DO NOT TREAT the FERRITIN LEVEL. A mistake. We treat iron and % saturation and let ferritin follow in its own accord. But ferritin is interesting to watch, and can also point to INFLAMMATION if it goes high without serum iron being high.
....
If your ferritin is low with very good or high iron, plus a TIBC in the middle 300’s or higher, that usually points to having high heavy metals and an active MTHFR mutation."

- https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/lab-values/

"A 40-60 range might be ideal, as drops in insulin sensitivity have been seen at slightly higher levels, but don’t quote me on that. The true ideal, if it exists, is likely going to be very personalized. In general, lower is better, as long as you’re not feeling any negative effects (fatigue, hair falling out, poor gym performance, etc)."

- Should You Reduce Your Iron Intake? | Mark's Daily Apple

 

[Lurker]

If treating low iron, maybe consider eating red meat such a beef liver instead of iron supplements which could be dubious at best.

 

[GreekGod]

Hi everyone,

I'm a 26 year old male and I've been struggling for the past couple of years with low libido. I would say that is my main mystery health issue, but I struggle with fatigue, brain fog, afternoon crashes, cold hands/sensitivity, trouble losing fat, compromised gut/sensitive stomach, and anxiety. Lately the last two have improved through supplements and lifestyle changes, but I've still been struggling with the other issues.

I conducted various blood tests in March and found that my Testosterone was on the low end (582 ng/dL ref range 250-827), SHBG was high (60 nmol/L ref range: 10-50), Free T 76.9 pg/mL (ref range 35-155) was on low end. Thyroid hormones were leaning towards hypothyroidism - TSH : 2.15, Free T4: 1.3 (ref range 0.8-1.8), Free T3: 2.9 (ref range 2.3-4.2), RT3: 14 ng/dL (ref range 8 - 25). TPO was 1 IU/mL (ref range <9). I also found that my serum iodine was low (49 mcg/L, ref range 52-109). My other hormones, cholesterol, iron, B12 etc levels were all good (ferritin was 43 ng/mL - I think that's considered good?).

Given my low iodine result and the lowish thyroid hormones, I began supplementing with Lugols iodine. Started with 1 drop of 2% a day for about a week, then increased to 2-3 drops and after about a month was taking 5 drops. I then switched to iodoral 12.5mg at that point and continued taking it daily. From the very beginning of incorporating it, I noticed increased energy, better sleep, radiant clear skin (except for a few cystic bumps, perhaps detox?), warmer hands, and I seemed to have leaned out a bit too. Libido wasn't great but it definitely did improve. I was a bit weary of taking relatively high doses given the conflicting information about it, but it definitely did seem to help me.

Given the low T result from before, I decided to retest (about a month after starting iodine). I remember around the time I went to the lab I noticed abnormally high libido, and I received the following notable results - Total testosterone 836 ng/dL (ref range 264 - 916), Free T 26 ng/dl (ref range 5-21), TSH 4.8 uIU/mL (ref range .45-2.5). The only thing I had changed consistently was the iodine. I had taken some boron supplements as I read that helps with high SHBG but I don't recall feeling like that helped much, and I didn't take it consistently. I believe my TSH shot up due to the iodine? I was feeling much better at the time, with most of my symptoms gone.

I continued supplementing with the iodine (still at 12.5 mg a day) and while I was feeling better with more energy, the low libido seemed to return and overall I didn't feel the iodine was "working" as well as it had been when I first started taking it. I got a random urine iodine test (at this point after about a total of 1.5 months of supplementation) with a result of 822 mcg/L (ref range 34 - 523). I had been supplementing with the iodine until a day before (my doctor wanted to see my levels with supplementation). So I'm not sure if that result is actually concerning? I've since stopped taking the iodine and have slowly started feeling worse. I also retested some thyroid hormones and got the following results - Total T4: 5.4 mcg/dL (ref range 4.5-11.7), TSH 3.8mcIU/mL, Free T3 2.6 pg/mL (ref range 2.0 - 4.4). TPO also increased to 15.5 IU/mL (ref range 5-34)

My doctor said my thyroid hormones are sub-optimal and has given me a prescription for Nature-Throid. I also had my 4x cortisol tested and my levels were found to be low, especially evening and night time levels, indicating adrenal fatigue. So my doctor also prescribed some adaptogenic herbs to take with the Nature-Throid.

I'm curious, based on this info: 1. What do you make of the fluctuating testosterone levels? 2. Am I hypothyroid and is that what is most likely causing my symptoms (alongside the adrenal issues)? 3. Should I continue with iodine supplementation, or is there another way to accurately asses if I need to supplement? 4. Is the iodine what might have caused the TPO and TSH to increase and is this concerning? 5. Does Nature-Throid seem like a good approach? Any other comments? Feel free to ask about other specific lab results, I probably got them done but just didn't list there.

I really appreciate any inputs or guidance!

I m in my late 50's but started having similar issues in my late 30's. The iodine is what has helped me a ton, Ive been taking it about 5 days per week with a couple days off for about 15 years now. Anywhere from 10 to 50 mg per day. In addition, things that have also helped are vitamin c/sea salt about 1000mg/250mg, magnesium, 400 to 800 mg, zinc orotate, and tyrosine (500 to 1000 per day)and selenium. (200 to 400 mg per day). I also use Borax, about 200 mg, about 3 to 4 days per week. The best I can figure, its Flouride and other halogens messing up thyroid function. I m a perfect weight and muscle build and have decent sex drive for a guy pushing 60. The adrenal fatigue is a possibility, not sure what he wants you to take. The Vitamin C and sea salt helped me I believe. I also ramped down the stress and over doing it on work outs and strenuous endurance type of activities. Your testo levels don't look too bad in my opinion, as I was in the 200 to 300 range when I tested. Those levels fluctuate alot, so don't read too much into any one test. If you want higher testo levels, eat more fat like raw egg yolks, coconut oil, and beef or lamb, the 80/20 fat levels. Also, Vitamin D levels are important if you are in a northern climate. I supplement from Sept thru April.

 

[Eugene]

Do you have joint pops and cracking as symptoms? Specially neck, hands and upper back?

I have joint pops and cracking - mostly in the neck and upper back, but what does it have to do with Zinc and Ferritin?
I used to take Zinc 50-70 mg, daily.

 

[Douglas Ek]

I have joint pops and cracking - mostly in the neck and upper back, but what does it have to do with Zinc and Ferritin?
I used to take Zinc 50-70 mg, daily.

If you have joint pops and cracking your copper deficient from taking to much Zinc. 40mg is the upper limit and lowered copper has been shown at lower levels than that. Taking a zinc supplement is unnecessary if eat enough. Did you even know if you had a zinc deficiency before you took 50-70mg? If not then why would you think its wise to take? Minerals have a homeostasis in the body. You shouldn't play with them. I've learned this lesson the hard way. Zinc supplements lower ceruloplasmin (The main copper-carrying protein in your body) also lowers intracellular iron and ferritin (The main iron-carrying protein in your body). Symptoms of iron deficiency are fatigue, reduced motivation, brain-fog, restless leg syndrome and reduced interest in sex because of low dopamine. Symptoms of copper deficiency are joint pain, joint clicking and popping (neck, upper-back, and wrists were most severe for me). Also, both iron and copper are involved in thyroid production so hypothyroid symptoms can occur which also reduces your testosterone. Ceruloplasmin (Copper dependent protein) Is needed for the metabolism of iron as well so iron is dependent on healthy copper status. This would in turn also deplete your livers retinol stores. If you have taken Zinc even higher than 15mg a day for a longer time and have the above symptoms I would highly recommend you test both your Ferritin and ceruloplasmin. You could also test your serum Zinc which I would believe can be low just because of you over-supplemented with zinc. This would also further reduce health and testosterone. The reason why high zinc intake reduces zinc status is that your body is built to protect you from metal toxicity. Your body will produce more of a protein called metallothionein which binds to metals in your blood and gut. Including zinc, copper, and iron. Also, Zinc reduces copper and copper is also needed for the metabolism of Zinc. You can actually raise your serum-Zinc by taking a copper supplement instead of zinc. Your body will notice higher blood copper and upregulate your zinc absorption to match it instead by lowering metallothionine so that zinc can come in and balance your copper. If you want to try it won't hurt to experiment with some copper bisglycinate. For a start, I recommend you take 4-8mg for at least 2 weeks to see if your joints start feeling better. Copper, Zinc, and Iron is a trio that depends on each other for many bodily functions. Unless you know for sure you have a deficiency I wouldn't touch them. Especially not Zinc, because that's the mineral which has been shown to mess up the other two but not the other way around.

 

[Douglas Ek]

If treating low iron, maybe consider eating red meat such a beef liver instead of iron supplements which could be dubious at best.

That's not true......
Have you had low iron and treated it?
I've had low ferritin stores and iron pills were the only thing that could raise it. I already ate tons of red meat and liver and my ferritin scores never improved. Some people just have a hard time absorbing iron. My girlfriend also had really low ferritin Doctor gave her a prescription iron tablet with 200mg of iron. after 1 week and she's like a new person. No more hair shedding, no cold hands, no fatigue, higher sex drive (I know this) and also her acne went away. Iron is totally needed and if you DONT have the hemochromatosis gene you really don't need to worry about overload. unless you take large amounts of iron for several months. And who would do that without checking their ferritin? I would never recommend anyone to start iron pills out of the blue. Because you do not know if you have hemochromatosis without checking your ferritin first. Normal healthy men tend to have a ferritin between 100-200. And women 70-150. Anything under 70 for both sexes is to low in my own opinion. I have seen lots of people going from under 70 to over 130 and everyone say they feel so much better. This coffee drinking with every red meat meal or taking aspirin (Lowers iron because of overall increased bleeding) is detrimental if you already have low ferritin.

Before I fixed my ferritin from 50 to 150 I had low thyroid and low-end testosterone. After getting my ferritin to 150 my thyroid went up. My whole body was warm all the time and my testosterone is now in the 900-1000 range. I can prove it all posting blood tests if you like.

 

[Prosper]

Before I fixed my ferritin from 50 to 150 I had low thyroid and low-end testosterone. After getting my ferritin to 150 my thyroid went up. My whole body was warm all the time and my testosterone is now in the 900-1000 range. I can prove it all posting blood tests if you like.

Once ferritin is sufficiently high, can the supplementation be stopped? Is high ferritin in itself enough to support the metabolic processes that maintain that level (given that no imbalance of other minerals is present)?