Douglas Ek
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- Feb 8, 2017
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And what did zinc do? From what i understand you dont need highdoses of zinc to block copper. Usually 10mg with your meals
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Help. I Am Taking Copper And Still Have Deficiency!
- Thread starter Lucas
- Start date
And what did zinc do? From what i understand you dont need highdoses of zinc to block copper. Usually 10mg with your meals
Am I really the only one that got a kick out of this?
@Motif
You may want to check out The Root Cause Protocol
He has an interesting take on the subject of ceruloplasmin and how to support it. Warning: Read with a critical mind, some of his ideas seem questionable....
I guess so...
Yeah I heard about that. Don't know what to think about that
It seems like a good place to start could be:
Magnesium
Thiamine
K2
Possibly some Taurine
(Balancing Zinc And Copper In The Body) - Posts 41 and 53
‘Brian fog’ instead of ‘Brain fog’...Mitosynergy is trying to market to people with brain fog but either the marketing team is taking the product and it’s not working or the marketing team is not taking the product but seriously needs to...ha ha?
I think I'm finally making progress getting out of copper toxicity. Symptoms were inability to handle any stress(even small amounts of cafeine in the morning would make me jittery and cause insomnia), liver congestion(constipation, alcohol intolerance, food sensitivities, etc...), bad and unrestful sleep with at least 2-3 wakings with pounding heart, no dopamine/motivation, low sex drive, fatigue, etc...
When I first suspected copper toxicity I jumped on the classical(Nutritional balancing ala Larry Wilson style) protocol for a couple of months, which made me much worse. Then unfortunately I found Morley Robbins who sounded promising and I started doing the RCP - that was a mistake, I lost 6 months with it.
After no success with the RCP went back to classical copper detox program and stick to it, besides the symptoms. 4 months later I see the light at the end of the tunnel - I finally feel normal, both physically and mentally, like I used to do in high school.
What I think Robbins gets fundamentally wrong are at least two things
1. Ceruroplasmin production depends on the adrenals and liver, just supplying the raw materials won't increase it. It actually got lower for me while on the RCP(from 24 to 22)
2. Copper toxicity is real and you need to get your copper down to let the liver do its job and produce ceruloplasmin - thats the same mechanism(which has not been explained by science) implicated in Wilsons disease
What I did for the last 3 months and it seems to be helping is
1. Infrared sauna, 15-25 minutes in the morning
2. Gelatin(20-3o grams per day)
3. Zinc - 3 x 50 mg
4. Vitamin A - 2 x 10K IUs
5. TMG or Sunflower lecithin
6. Manganese(10-20mg per day in a single dose)
7. B6 - 50mg in the morning
8. B2 - 15mg in the evening
9. B5 - 500mg in the morning
10. Biotin - 1000mcg at lunch
11. Boron - 3mg every other day
12. Selenium - 200mcg in the evening
13. Mg hydroxide - 500mg with soda spread through the day
14. Dandelion tincture - 3 times, before meals
15. Milk thistle phytosomes(but tincture will probably do as well)
16. Ox bile(500mg) and dygestive enzymes blend before each meal
When I first suspected copper toxicity I jumped on the classical(Nutritional balancing ala Larry Wilson style) protocol for a couple of months, which made me much worse. Then unfortunately I found Morley Robbins who sounded promising and I started doing the RCP - that was a mistake, I lost 6 months with it.
After no success with the RCP went back to classical copper detox program and stick to it, besides the symptoms. 4 months later I see the light at the end of the tunnel - I finally feel normal, both physically and mentally, like I used to do in high school.
What I think Robbins gets fundamentally wrong are at least two things
1. Ceruroplasmin production depends on the adrenals and liver, just supplying the raw materials won't increase it. It actually got lower for me while on the RCP(from 24 to 22)
2. Copper toxicity is real and you need to get your copper down to let the liver do its job and produce ceruloplasmin - thats the same mechanism(which has not been explained by science) implicated in Wilsons disease
What I did for the last 3 months and it seems to be helping is
1. Infrared sauna, 15-25 minutes in the morning
2. Gelatin(20-3o grams per day)
3. Zinc - 3 x 50 mg
4. Vitamin A - 2 x 10K IUs
5. TMG or Sunflower lecithin
6. Manganese(10-20mg per day in a single dose)
7. B6 - 50mg in the morning
8. B2 - 15mg in the evening
9. B5 - 500mg in the morning
10. Biotin - 1000mcg at lunch
11. Boron - 3mg every other day
12. Selenium - 200mcg in the evening
13. Mg hydroxide - 500mg with soda spread through the day
14. Dandelion tincture - 3 times, before meals
15. Milk thistle phytosomes(but tincture will probably do as well)
16. Ox bile(500mg) and dygestive enzymes blend before each meal
Do you have any tests to confirm that you were/are indeed dealing with copper toxicity? Your symptoms sound like liver damage/issues which many of the supplements that you take help with. This might also explain why classic copper detox protocol did not do you much good. It is not really about the copper but rather dysfunctional underlying functions. I certainly think anyone who suspects liver problems would benefit from Dandelion and maybe milk thistle. Also the high dose of manganese would help produce bile and correct constipation. Although I dont know if I think 20 mg / day is safe long term
Yes copper deficiency(low Cp) is a symptom of liver disfunction but copper toxicity causes liver issues and low Cp and Cu - as in Wilsons disease.
@Nighteyes - actually what I outlined here as my strategy IS the classical copper detox protocol.
I did a lot of blood tests but copper/zinc and ceruloplasmin barely moved. I did HTMA with Wilson, according to which I was copper toxic, besides hair copper being low.
In the beginning I could not tolerate Milk Thistle(which is supposed to raise Cp) at all but after 3 months on 150mg zinc and 20K IU vit A, I could tolerate it and it made me feel really good, improved my sleep etc.
I haven't done a recent blood test(last one is from May 2018) but will do one in the upcoming weeks and report back.
@Nighteyes - actually what I outlined here as my strategy IS the classical copper detox protocol.
I did a lot of blood tests but copper/zinc and ceruloplasmin barely moved. I did HTMA with Wilson, according to which I was copper toxic, besides hair copper being low.
In the beginning I could not tolerate Milk Thistle(which is supposed to raise Cp) at all but after 3 months on 150mg zinc and 20K IU vit A, I could tolerate it and it made me feel really good, improved my sleep etc.
I haven't done a recent blood test(last one is from May 2018) but will do one in the upcoming weeks and report back.
Yes, this is a very good point. And probably also why toxicity and deficiency is often seen at the same time.
I think it is really great that you have found a strategy that works well for you and totally did not mean to discredit that. Was genuinely curious about your test results. My HTMA also said I was copper toxic and my copper was sky high. So it is interesting if approaches for us would be different. I absolutely cannot tolerate zinc and include natural copper foods that are helping me alot. So for me I interpret my hair results as my copper being dumped excessivley and ending up in the hair and causing trouble elsewhere. High protein diet is important too. For vitamin A I use goat cheese as I am not convinved of the safety of vit A as a supplement. Not sure on that one - just being cautious.
I had a bad case of aluminum toxicity from a vaccine causing trouble as well which complicates things
Anyway please do report back on upcoming tests results. What is your diet like now?I did not mean to imply that it is that simple. It was merely a comment based on personal experience from high manganese foods :) Amazoniac posted something recently about high protein diet promoting copper absorption and also that too much fiber might result in copper not being absorbed from the digestive tract. I cannot find the post right now. Will look for it.
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