Curious: What was Peat wrong about, in your view?

[moa]

update : i stopped thiamine ans i have stomach pain.

When i eat i digest well in the first 20 minutes, without much pain. ginger powder helps me empty my stomach after 30 minutes after i eat, but it doesn't stop the pain for long (it comes back).

i tried glycine helps immediately, lysine i think it helps not sure if as much as glycine.

then when i take magnesium malate dissolved in water, i think it helps reduce pain when i take it, not sure 100%.

overall, my high dose thiamine gave me good results, it really helped my mood, sleep, and overall body energy. i would like to take more but the side effect is this stomach pain.

when i take b2 and p5p it doesn't seem to help as much on the spot, for reducing pain as magnesium malate and glycine do.

also alginates, or sodium bicarbonate in water are not working very well on the pain, so i don't think it's acid since magnesium malate reduce the pain but not sodium bicarbonate.

other forms of magnesium usually irritate my stomach. i took malate today cause i run out of bisglycinate and malate i never used much before.

 

[moa]

update : the DAO arrived, i took 2 pills 2h apart, 1.5 million units each with cofactors (0.2mg copper, zinc, p5p)

works much better than magnesium, it completely cured my stomach pain.

i took also 2mg copper, vitamin C, r5p later.

my theory is i took too much zinc without copper, because copper was causing nausea especially on empty stomach.

maybe copper causing nausea might have been a sign i need it even more.

if the pain will not return tomorrow, this DAO could be a cure.

right now i feel a residual small pain, so I'll see if it goes away tomorrow.

by the way, r5p riboflavin did not worked well yesterday, meaning it's probably copper deficiency.

 

[moa]

today i feel ok, so : mega dosing thiamine is causing DAO deficiency.

 

[moa]

update : today i felt well, was able to eat normal, all good until i got gallbladder pain.

That's exactly where gallbladder is, the rest of my gut is very fine, the pain is not strong, at least for now.

either stopping b1, or magnesium malate with taurate (taurine can cause increased bile i think and glycine) or something else ? too much DAO??

i just took acv 3 spoons in water.

 

[kimbriel]

update : today i felt well, was able to eat normal, all good until i got gallbladder pain.

That's exactly where gallbladder is, the rest of my gut is very fine, the pain is not strong, at least for now.

either stopping b1, or magnesium malate with taurate (taurine can cause increased bile i think and glycine) or something else ? too much DAO??

i just took acv 3 spoons in water.

You might want to do the Great Liver and Gallbladder flush. I got a bunch of gallstones and liver stones out that way v

 

[moa]

@kimbriel is it safe? I've heard the "stones" are formed from the oil and ingredients and not real liver stones ?

The last time i had some gallbladder pain was when i started to take 3g taurine for a few days, 6 months ago or so, and it stopped as i stopped supplementing taurine (and magnesium).

 

[kimbriel]

@kimbriel is it safe? I've heard the "stones" are formed from the oil and ingredients and not real liver stones ?

The last time i had some gallbladder pain was when i started to take 3g taurine for a few days, 6 months ago or so, and it stopped as i stopped supplementing taurine (and magnesium).

It's perfectly safe, there is even a member here who offers a course on it. And yeah, some people who want to detract from it will make the claim it's from the EVOO, but I looked at the contents and so did my colon hydrotherapist, and she said they were definitely bile stones.

 

[moa]

It's perfectly safe, there is even a member here who offers a course on it. And yeah, some people who want to detract from it will make the claim it's from the EVOO, but I looked at the contents and so did my colon hydrotherapist, and she said they were definitely bile stones.

should i do ultrasound first ? to confirm it is stones. it could also be sluggish gallbladder without stones, i feel no back or shoulder pain.

 

[moa]

and, should i do this now or after a few days or weeks when the pain stops ?

 

[kimbriel]

and, should i do this now or after a few days or weeks when the pain stops ?

Let me see if I can find the answer in my book, or maybe Christian knows...

 

[moa]

Let me see if I can find the answer in my book, or maybe Christian knows...

I feel fine today. i took 1g vitamin C and then the pain stopped.

 

[CellularIconoclast]

I'm a huge fan of Ray Peat, but a few of his concepts do seem incorrect to me:

1) Toxicity of vegetables and benefits of gut sterility- it is more nuanced than this, different types of vegetable fiber shift gut bacteria populations in different ways. A high vegetable intake that supports a healthy population of beneficial bacteria, will prevent growth and colonization of toxin producing bacteria. A sterile gut is impossible in the real world, its only a matter of which bacteria will be present. A sterile gut is extremely ecologically unstable, and vulnerable to colonization with the wrong bacteria. Moreover, intestinal barrier function strongly depends on energy from short chain fats produced by bacteria digesting plant fiber. These short chain fats also help improve metabolic function generally, and can put a person in ketosis/high ketone levels as a cellular fuel source, even with a high carb diet.

2) It is not always possible to get peoples glucose/carb metabolism actually functioning in everyone. Peat offers a lot of tools to try, but when they all fail and you still can't figure out what is going on, a lot of people are able to restore metabolic function only on low carb or ketogenic diets. This could involve genetics, unknown toxins, metabolic damage (e.g. from PUFA), etc.

3) The benefits of exercise on hormone profiles and energy metabolism. It is just as powerful a tool as supplements or diet. Walking, high intensity exercise, and lifting heavy things massively improve peoples well being, and this is pretty much dismissed by Ray Peat. Building muscle and staying lean through exercise reduces estrogen levels, increases CO2, and improves mitochondrial density and function among other things.

4) Some of his criticisms of modern medicine are unfair or incorrect. Its easy to criticize them not trying radical/experimental protocols and being slow to update, and authoritarian when you aren't trying to treat huge number of patients on a limited budget, aren't responsible for their lives if anything goes wrong, and aren't dealing with patients that aren't able to follow simple instructions or put out any effort to help themselves. That said, the whole experience of modern medicine is pretty terrible, and many people are harmed or never treated for things that are easy to address.

However, I feel focusing on these things is missing the point. Ray Peat was only using health as a framework to teach people to be independent problem solvers- he was a philosopher, not a diet guru. If I could have sit down with him and told him why I disagree on the 4 things above, chances are he would have agreed with my points, and probably had even more insight to add.

 

[Mauritio]

I think he didnt appreciate the relevance of fungal gut infections enough.

 

[Dutchie]

Toxicity of vegetables and benefits of gut sterility- it is more nuanced than this, different types of vegetable fiber shift gut bacteria populations in different ways. A high vegetable intake that supports a healthy population of beneficial bacteria, will prevent growth and colonization of toxin producing bacteria. A sterile gut is impossible in the real world, its only a matter of which bacteria will be present. A sterile gut is extremely ecologically unstable, and vulnerable to colonization with the wrong bacteria. Moreover, intestinal barrier function strongly depends on energy from short chain fats produced by bacteria digesting plant fiber. These short chain fats also help improve metabolic function generally, and can put a person in ketosis/high ketone levels a

For a long while I was confused about the sterile gut thing as well, until I found that it's mainly used by people out of context.
He meant it in regards to the small intestine not the colon. That made more sense to me,since too much bacteria (good and bad) in the small intestine cause Sibo.

 

[CellularIconoclast]

For a long while I was confused about the sterile gut thing as well, until I found that it's mainly used by people out of context.
He meant it in regards to the small intestine not the colon. That made more sense to me,since too much bacteria (good and bad) in the small intestine cause Sibo.

Indeed, the small intestine should be totally sterile.

 

[Peatress]

Ray Peat - the most misunderstood man in the world.

 

[Highserotonin90]

@kimbriel How can we intervene to do this? if you want you can also answer me privately (I find myself with acute pancreatitis, I don't have any pain that can be directly linked to the gallbladder/stones but I just suspect that the flow is slowing down and the return towards the pancreas creates pain/inflammation.

 

[moa]

Indeed, the small intestine should be totally sterile.

Starch and fiber will mostly feed colon bacteria, while sugar and simple fiber or fodmaps will feed small intestine.

The hole theory against starch and complex fibers like pectin and inulin is based on this confusion of small intestine with colon. If we want sterile small intestine is much better to restrict on simple sugars and some easily fermentable fodmaps than on starch and pectin-inulin.

Also keeping small intestine clean is caused by autonomous system, vagus nerve, good bile flow between meals, and not as much what you eat or what feeds bacteria.

good bile flow also require adequate bile binders in the colon to avoid either diarrhea and/or constipation by vagus nerve shutdown (starch and pectin-inulin and/or insoluble fiber or both).

seeing the gut only as a mechanical, mucosal and muscle pump is not good, it should be seen mainly as a second brain, a nervous network with primitive function and not protected by a brain blood barrier, thus various neurotransmitters have more basic function in the gut than in the brain, they don't have the same mechanism of action as in the brain.

also the second brain is much more resilient to stress, and to stimuli, than the central brain.

How to clean gut / small intestine :
-lots of plant infusions, verbena, etc, between meals on empty stomach
-short term intermittent fasting but no calorie restriction
-short term sugar restriction without easy to digest starch restriction (rice, potatoes)
-acetylcholine : zinc, choline, B1, B5
-glycine and lysine to repair gut lining and lower inflammation (if needed cascara sagrada or lapacho)
-long term, fix liver bile flow if low, without going too much into toxic bile

isn't this better than just "restrict starch and eat orange juice and raw carrots" advice ? Don't you think so ?

 

[Olmec]

zinc is required for normal acetylcholine levels, but too much zinc at toxic levels will block acetylcholine ?

Regarding your comment on excess zinc blocking acetylcholine, is this something you've read, or were you simply suggesting it as a possibility?

 

[Jennifer]

Starch and fiber will mostly feed colon bacteria, while sugar and simple fiber or fodmaps will feed small intestine.

The hole theory against starch and complex fibers like pectin and inulin is based on this confusion of small intestine with colon. If we want sterile small intestine is much better to restrict on simple sugars and some easily fermentable fodmaps than on starch and pectin-inulin.

Also keeping small intestine clean is caused by autonomous system, vagus nerve, good bile flow between meals, and not as much what you eat or what feeds bacteria.

good bile flow also require adequate bile binders in the colon to avoid either diarrhea and/or constipation by vagus nerve shutdown (starch and pectin-inulin and/or insoluble fiber or both).

seeing the gut only as a mechanical, mucosal and muscle pump is not good, it should be seen mainly as a second brain, a nervous network with primitive function and not protected by a brain blood barrier, thus various neurotransmitters have more basic function in the gut than in the brain, they don't have the same mechanism of action as in the brain.

also the second brain is much more resilient to stress, and to stimuli, than the central brain.

How to clean gut / small intestine :
-lots of plant infusions, verbena, etc, between meals on empty stomach
-short term intermittent fasting but no calorie restriction
-short term sugar restriction without easy to digest starch restriction (rice, potatoes)
-acetylcholine : zinc, choline, B1, B5
-glycine and lysine to repair gut lining and lower inflammation (if needed cascara sagrada or lapacho)
-long term, fix liver bile flow if low, without going too much into toxic bile

isn't this better than just "restrict starch and eat orange juice and raw carrots" advice ? Don't you think so ?

Not for everyone, no. When I had tested and confirmed SIBO, starch and fiber exacerbated it, simple sugars did not. I eliminated the SIBO by removing all starch and fiber from my diet. My overgrowth was caused by an underactive thyroid/hypothyroidism and intermittent fasting only exacerbates the condition.