COVID Long Hauler for 7 months, need help

Motif

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Methylene blue?

i would love to know if it’s really that effective as some claim.
 

Xisca

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Which thiamin and b complex do you recommend?
It is personal you have to try. Start with any B complex or make your own mix.
You can use then a separate thiamine HCl to increase the dose.
Then some people use allithiamiine or benfothiamine because you need less (but not toxic anyway....)
Then peopel with brainfog and brain issues in general like TTFD (thiamax) or sulbuthiamine.
BUT those forms need to be more careful about co-factors.
So search, read the web hormonesmatters and EONutrition (Elliot Overton, also watch him on youtube. He focusses on thiamax that he sells, just don't bother this point)
I cannot increase thiamax and react better to benfo. I currently take 300mg a day in 3x but that's ME.
 

Xisca

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or simply take thiamine hcl instead.
Yes, but some people need to go up to over 2000mg with this form, so don't give up early...
Also it will not go to the brain, TTFD does.
And yes I take NAC and cannot get more than 100mg of TTFD so I also take other forms.
you also need to support methylation and take Mg with ALL form of B1. also advised to increase other Bs in particular B2 and B3. I would not take B3 without B1 too.
Also support your elecgrolytes for when your metabolism will increase... Personal balance so be careful and test, asking is useless for this point.
 

Xisca

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For your consideration:
niacin deficiency causes Pellagra:
from Wikipedia Pellagra - Wikipedia: The classic symptoms of pellagra are diarrhea, dermatitis, dementia, and death ("the four Ds").[4] A more comprehensive list of symptoms includes:
Thiamine deficiency causes Beriberi:
from Wikipedia Thiamine deficiency - Wikipedia:
Symptoms of beriberi include weight loss, emotional disturbances, impaired sensory perception, weakness and pain in the limbs, and periods of irregular heart rate. Edema (swelling of bodily tissues) is common. It may increase the amount of lactic acid and pyruvic acid within the blood. In advanced cases, the disease may cause high-output cardiac failure and death.

Symptoms may occur concurrently with those of Wernicke's encephalopathy, a primarily neurological thiamine deficiency-related condition.

Beriberi is divided into four categories. The first three are historical and the fourth, gastrointestinal beriberi, was recognized in 2004:


  • Dry beriberi especially affects the peripheral nervous system.
  • Wet beriberi especially affects the cardiovascular system and other bodily systems.
  • Infantile beriberi affects the babies of malnourished mothers.
  • Gastrointestinal beriberi affects the digestive system and other bodily systems.

Dry beriberi​

Dry beriberi causes wasting and partial paralysis resulting from damaged peripheral nerves. It is also referred to as endemic neuritis. It is characterized by:


  • Difficulty with walking
  • Tingling or loss of sensation (numbness) in hands and feet
  • Loss of tendon reflexes[10]
  • Loss of muscle function or paralysis of the lower legs
  • Mental confusion/speech difficulties
  • Pain
  • Involuntary eye movements (nystagmus)
  • Vomiting

A selective impairment of the large proprioceptive sensory fibers without motor impairment can occur and present as a prominent sensory ataxia, which is a loss of balance and coordination due to loss of the proprioceptive inputs from the periphery and loss of position sense.[11]


Brain disease​

Wernicke's encephalopathy (WE), Korsakoff syndrome (alcohol amnestic disorder), and Wernicke–Korsakoff syndrome are forms of dry beriberi.[4]

Wernicke's encephalopathy is the most frequently encountered manifestation of thiamine deficiency in Western society,[12][13] though it may also occur in patients with impaired nutrition from other causes, such as gastrointestinal disease,[12] those with HIV/AIDS, and with the injudicious administration of parenteral glucose or hyperalimentation without adequate B-vitamin supplementation.[14] This is a striking neuro-psychiatric disorder characterized by paralysis of eye movements, abnormal stance and gait, and markedly deranged mental function.[15]

Korsakoff syndrome, in general, is considered to occur with deterioration of brain function in patients initially diagnosed with WE.[16] This is an amnestic-confabulatory syndrome characterized by retrograde and anterograde amnesia, impairment of conceptual functions, and decreased spontaneity and initiative.[17]

Alcoholics may have thiamine deficiency because of:


  • Inadequate nutritional intake: Alcoholics tend to intake less than the recommended amount of thiamine.
  • Decreased uptake of thiamine from the GI tract: Active transport of thiamine into enterocytes is disturbed during acute alcohol exposure.
  • Liver thiamine stores are reduced due to hepatic steatosis or fibrosis.[18]
  • Impaired thiamine utilization: Magnesium, which is required for the binding of thiamine to thiamine-using enzymes within the cell, is also deficient due to chronic alcohol consumption. The inefficient use of any thiamine that does reach the cells will further exacerbate the thiamine deficiency.
  • Ethanol per se inhibits thiamine transport in the gastrointestinal system and blocks phosphorylation of thiamine to its cofactor form (ThDP).[19]

Following improved nutrition and the removal of alcohol consumption, some impairments linked with thiamine deficiency are reversed, in particular poor brain functionality, although in more severe cases, Wernicke–Korsakoff syndrome leaves permanent damage. (See delirium tremens.)


Wet beriberi​

Wet beriberi affects the heart and circulatory system. It is sometimes fatal, as it causes a combination of heart failure and weakening of the capillary walls, which causes the peripheral tissues to become edematous. Wet beriberi is characterized by:



Gastrointestinal beriberi​

Gastrointestinal beriberi causes abdominal pain. It is characterized by:


  • Abdominal pain
  • Nausea
  • Vomiting
  • Lactic acidosis[26][27]
SORRY I must say this is useless as we would not recognize our symptoms! It made me MISS my thiamine deficiency! I have taken energin and Bs in general for 5 or 6 years for almost nothing and no result.
I GOT RESULTS IN 1 DAY WHEN I INCREASED B1.
(I take more than this, search the cofactors and some vary)

It does not mean the same for you, except if like me you have glycemia issues with fatigue, slow metabolism, lactic acid pains, muscle weakness... BUT those are not the only possible issues. Mitochndria issues can have different faces so you have to search. It can be the heart or the brain too. Watch Elliot Overton on Youtube.
 

mostlylurking

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Yes, but some people need to go up to over 2000mg with this form, so don't give up early...
Also it will not go to the brain, TTFD does.
And yes I take NAC and cannot get more than 100mg of TTFD so I also take other forms.
you also need to support methylation and take Mg with ALL form of B1. also advised to increase other Bs in particular B2 and B3. I would not take B3 without B1 too.
Also support your elecgrolytes for when your metabolism will increase... Personal balance so be careful and test, asking is useless for this point.
After my own experience with thiamine hcl (2 grams/day) and also reading Dr. Costantini's work, I suspect that thiamine hcl does resolve brain issues. At least it did for me. If you read the studies, there is one that states that benfotiamine doesn't cross the blood brain barrier. Thiamine hcl was not mentioned in the study. The study promoted TTFD. Now I've read that even benfotiamine resolves brain issues so that one study has been refuted. Nobody has proven that thiamine hcl doesn't cross the blood brain barrier. The TTFD promoters say TTFD does it better. But where are the studies? Dr. Costantini would only use thiamine hcl, he said because "it is the only thiamine that gets in the neurons". There are different opinions on the topic.

I'm following Ray Peat's advice on methylation. In other words, I'm not inclined to try to increase it. I'm taking a good b-complex too, and the magnesium, and extra B2 and B3.

You're sure right about the electrolytes! I had some trouble with that for a while (3-4 months), then increased my salt intake which seems to have resolved the problem.

My problem with TTFD is that it uses glutathione to work and I'm low in glutathione, probably due to a body load of heavy metals including mercury. Apparently, thiamine hcl improves glutathione status by making healthy metabolism work.
 
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Manganese and Vitamin B1

Experiments with animals have recently shown that an excess of vitamin B 1 may develop disturbances in lactation and maternal instinct associated with cannibalism.
This phenomena was found to be due to a depletion of the manganese supply. It is' found that vitamin B 1 and manganese are synergistic and an excess of vitamin B 1 uses up the manganese supply. On the other hand an excess of manganese brings about the exhaustion of vitamin B 1. Because of this when vitamin B 1 is reinforced
in the diet or is given in the form of thiamin chloride care must be taken to insure a sufficient supply of manganese.

I'm wondering if there are humans studies showing similar disturbances in manganese/thiamine ratios then I found this thread

 

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mostlylurking

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SORRY I must say this is useless as we would not recognize our symptoms! It made me MISS my thiamine deficiency! I have taken energin and Bs in general for 5 or 6 years for almost nothing and no result.
I GOT RESULTS IN 1 DAY WHEN I INCREASED B1.
(I take more than this, search the cofactors and some vary)
I agree, it's useless; it's Wikipedia, just a terrible resource. I disagree that we can't recognize our own symptoms though. I posted it to try to show that a thiamine deficiency (beriberi) is serious and it is completely different from a niacin deficiency (pelagra) which is also serious. They can both kill you.

I got results in 45 minutes when I took about 250-300mg of thiamine hcl. Haidut's casual remark on a radio show saved my life. Something about thiamine will knock out lactic acid. It started me on the right path to correct my problem.
It does not mean the same for you, except if like me you have glycemia issues with fatigue, slow metabolism, lactic acid pains, muscle weakness... BUT those are not the only possible issues. Mitochndria issues can have different faces so you have to search. It can be the heart or the brain too. Watch Elliot Overton on Youtube.
I've watched all of Elliot Overton's videos; they are wonderful. Dr. Costantini's website is excellent too: HDT Therapy Don't miss the videos: Videos Parkinson's Patients before and after treatment - Ultima Edizione.Eu Thiamine is amazing stuff! Have you read Elliot Overton articles here? You searched for elliot overton - Hormones Matter This website has excellent articles about thiamine. Some are written by Dr. Lonsdale. The articles about hormones, I think, rely too heavily on recent research financed by the estrogen industry.

Have you read Dr. Lonsdale's book, Thiamine Deficiency Disease, Dysautonomia, and High Calorie Malnutrition? It's an expensive book. However many of his articles on HormonesMatter cover the same material and they are free.
 

mostlylurking

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Manganese and Vitamin B1

Experiments with animals have recently shown that an excess of vitamin B 1 may develop disturbances in lactation and maternal instinct associated with cannibalism.
This phenomena was found to be due to a depletion of the manganese supply. It is' found that vitamin B 1 and manganese are synergistic and an excess of vitamin B 1 uses up the manganese supply. On the other hand an excess of manganese brings about the exhaustion of vitamin B 1. Because of this when vitamin B 1 is reinforced
in the diet or is given in the form of thiamin chloride care must be taken to insure a sufficient supply of manganese.

I'm wondering if there are humans studies showing similar disturbances in manganese/thiamine ratios then I found this thread

Maple syrup is a good food source for manganese.
 

InChristAlone

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Grape juice is also awesome for manganese.
 

Jam

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Yep, as is wine, and cocoa.
 

Sefton10

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Pineapple juice too.
 
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nejdev

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Maple syrup is a good food source for manganese.
I forgot to respond to you regarding beef liver...I was able to source some fresh calf liver at the grocery store (I live in Scandinavia, moved from the US a few years ago) and I fried that up and have been eating it. Tastes awful, but I add a little with my lunch every day. So now I'm eating that, I've got the OJ going, and 300mg thiamine (with a B complex mitochondrial supplement from LifeExtensionEurope. Also worked my way up to 100mg/day of Niacin, and I take a 3mg Melatonin every couple of days because I've read/heard that Melatonin helps Niacin get used in the body. Don't know the specifics, I skimmed through the science, it's pretty dense stuff.

I've been doing this about a week. Don't feel much different but I understand these things can take time. Going to up my dosage of thiamine HCl to 600mg slowly - the recommended dose on the bottle is 2 pills, 2 times a day which is 600mg.

Thanks again for your help and guidance. I hope this proves fruitful. Moving into month 8 now with this COVID ***t, I've tried everything in the book and nothing is putting a dent in this thing. I have days where it feels like I'm almost getting better and then I'll have a relapse out of nowhere - although sometimes triggered if I overextend myself. The symptoms come and go in waves, completely inconsistent, which is why it's so confusing. I mentioned it earlier but literally all my blood tests came back alright except for one liver test:

P-ALP (Alkaline phosphates) (microcat / L) - 0.5 (ref 0.7 - 1.9)

Apparently a low value can be fine though, or so says the doctor, since all my other liver levels came back fine. Interestingly, according to the notes on low ALP say the following:

A low ALP value is usually a normal variant, but a low value can also occur with magnesium deficiency or severe nutritional deficiency. In very rare cases, even a low ALP value in combination with symptoms of repeated fractures can be a sign of a genetic disease.

Other factors that affect analysis results The ALP value can sometimes rise for physiological reasons, which is benign. This is seen in children and adolescents as their skeletons grow. The ALP value may also increase in connection with treatment with certain drugs and in case of hyperthyroidism (hyperthyroidism).


Still grasping at straws here. So I guess we'll see how the next few weeks go.

Thanks again for your help.
 

InChristAlone

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I forgot to respond to you regarding beef liver...I was able to source some fresh calf liver at the grocery store (I live in Scandinavia, moved from the US a few years ago) and I fried that up and have been eating it. Tastes awful, but I add a little with my lunch every day. So now I'm eating that, I've got the OJ going, and 300mg thiamine (with a B complex mitochondrial supplement from LifeExtensionEurope. Also worked my way up to 100mg/day of Niacin, and I take a 3mg Melatonin every couple of days because I've read/heard that Melatonin helps Niacin get used in the body. Don't know the specifics, I skimmed through the science, it's pretty dense stuff.

I've been doing this about a week. Don't feel much different but I understand these things can take time. Going to up my dosage of thiamine HCl to 600mg slowly - the recommended dose on the bottle is 2 pills, 2 times a day which is 600mg.

Thanks again for your help and guidance. I hope this proves fruitful. Moving into month 8 now with this COVID ***t, I've tried everything in the book and nothing is putting a dent in this thing. I have days where it feels like I'm almost getting better and then I'll have a relapse out of nowhere - although sometimes triggered if I overextend myself. The symptoms come and go in waves, completely inconsistent, which is why it's so confusing. I mentioned it earlier but literally all my blood tests came back alright except for one liver test:

P-ALP (Alkaline phosphates) (microcat / L) - 0.5 (ref 0.7 - 1.9)

Apparently a low value can be fine though, or so says the doctor, since all my other liver levels came back fine. Interestingly, according to the notes on low ALP say the following:

A low ALP value is usually a normal variant, but a low value can also occur with magnesium deficiency or severe nutritional deficiency. In very rare cases, even a low ALP value in combination with symptoms of repeated fractures can be a sign of a genetic disease.

Other factors that affect analysis results The ALP value can sometimes rise for physiological reasons, which is benign. This is seen in children and adolescents as their skeletons grow. The ALP value may also increase in connection with treatment with certain drugs and in case of hyperthyroidism (hyperthyroidism).


Still grasping at straws here. So I guess we'll see how the next few weeks go.

Thanks again for your help.
Low ALP is low stomach acid. It's a zinc dependent enzyme.
 

mostlylurking

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I forgot to respond to you regarding beef liver...I was able to source some fresh calf liver at the grocery store (I live in Scandinavia, moved from the US a few years ago) and I fried that up and have been eating it. Tastes awful, but I add a little with my lunch every day. So now I'm eating that, I've got the OJ going, and 300mg thiamine (with a B complex mitochondrial supplement from LifeExtensionEurope. Also worked my way up to 100mg/day of Niacin, and I take a 3mg Melatonin every couple of days because I've read/heard that Melatonin helps Niacin get used in the body. Don't know the specifics, I skimmed through the science, it's pretty dense stuff.
About the liver: If you can find frozen sliced liver, it might be better. But I've had horrible frozen liver too. Liver goes off very fast and I think ammonia forms and the slightly sweet taste disappears. Soaking in milk, maybe for a hour in the refrigerator might help. Adding a 1/2 teaspoon of sugar in the cooking or in a sauce can do wonders.

I've never read that Melatonin helps niacin get used in the body. There are a lot of theories out there floating around. You might try to find confirmation in other articles? Here's the results for a pubmed search: melatonin and niacin - Search Results - PubMed The connection mentioned is that both melatonin and niacin are metabolites of tryptophan.
I've been doing this about a week. Don't feel much different but I understand these things can take time. Going to up my dosage of thiamine HCl to 600mg slowly - the recommended dose on the bottle is 2 pills, 2 times a day which is 600mg.
Suggestions: take the thiamine with water, not juice. Space the ingestion of thiamine an hour away from sweet things, coffee, and tea. Take the last dose by 3:00pm.
Thanks again for your help and guidance. I hope this proves fruitful. Moving into month 8 now with this COVID ***t, I've tried everything in the book and nothing is putting a dent in this thing. I have days where it feels like I'm almost getting better and then I'll have a relapse out of nowhere - although sometimes triggered if I overextend myself. The symptoms come and go in waves, completely inconsistent, which is why it's so confusing.
I think it might be helpful if you would keep a food diary of what you consume and the times. Write down the times you take the supplements also. I went through a period of several months while I was slowly increasing my dose of thiamine when drinking a small cup of coffee (maybe 4 oz) or having something sweet (too much sugar) made me feel pretty awful. Then there was also a few months where I would just crater in the afternoon. I think perhaps the cratering was due to low blood sugar. Coffee (and tea) blocks thiamine function. Sugar uses it up pretty fast. If you are thiamine deficient, you liver doesn't work very well and so you can't store much glycogen. For me, this improved over a few months and I'm good now, no more problems with hypoglycemia.
I mentioned it earlier but literally all my blood tests came back alright except for one liver test:

P-ALP (Alkaline phosphates) (microcat / L) - 0.5 (ref 0.7 - 1.9)
I don't have the knowledge to help here; maybe someone else can?
Apparently a low value can be fine though, or so says the doctor, since all my other liver levels came back fine. Interestingly, according to the notes on low ALP say the following:

A low ALP value is usually a normal variant, but a low value can also occur with magnesium deficiency or severe nutritional deficiency. In very rare cases, even a low ALP value in combination with symptoms of repeated fractures can be a sign of a genetic disease.

Other factors that affect analysis results The ALP value can sometimes rise for physiological reasons, which is benign. This is seen in children and adolescents as their skeletons grow. The ALP value may also increase in connection with treatment with certain drugs and in case of hyperthyroidism (hyperthyroidism).
Growing skeletons and repeated fractures both point to calcium aberration. I have read that calcium function can go haywire from a thiamine deficiency. Thiamine deficiency messes up a lot of things.
also this one (apologies if this is a repeat):
 

InChristAlone

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Hans

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Hey folks,

New to Ray Peat...spent the last few days doing some reading and watching videos. I found this forum because I did a duckduckgo search cross-referencing Ivermectin and long haul COVID. It landed me on another thread about someone who was currently using Ivermectin to stop acute COVID. Before that I had never heard of Ray Peat, though I have been bio-hacking for awhile (nootropics and such, trying to optimize health)

I had acute COVID in March of this year - 2021 - previously super fit, training for a marathon, never got ill...35 y/o healthy male. COVID was the sickest I've ever been - horrible headaches, body fatigue, 39/40c fever for a week and a half, delerium, all sorts of fun stuff. I thought I was going to die, to the point where I was writing out all my passwords and personal info for my wife. After two weeks of hell, I pulled through. Interestingly enough, I never had shortness of breath or lung issues. I think I was infected through my eye because it was sore for 4 days before I tested positive and I just felt "off". Anyway, I recovered, felt fine a few weeks after I got over it, started running again. Then the real nightmare began.

Ever since I "recovered" I have had a revolving door of awful symptoms:
- Bone crushing fatigue
- Sore muscles for no reason
- Memory loss, brain fog, "drunk" or "spaced out" feeling
- Trouble forming speech
- Vision issues (seeing sparks/black spots in peripheral vision)
- Twitching muslces (my calves twitch daily, every day)
- Sharp head pain, headaches and occasional nausea
- Sharp chest pains (they have mostly resolved now)
- Post exertional malaise...for example, I went into the office two days ago after the lockdown ended in my country, and just spending the day socializing with co-workers put me in bed for two days. Just talking for an extended period of time hurts.

It's a lot, I know, and it's led me here. I don't know what's happening to me - my life is deteriorating. The doctors in my Scandinavian country ******* suck, excuse my language. When I was acutely ill, I was told to stay home and take an aspirin, and not to come in unless my lips turned blue or I stopped breathing. Unbelievable. Now that I have what seems to be chronic illness from this, I have been passed around like a bag of oreos. Been to the ER multiple times because I thought I was having a heart attack. Docs took blood, said I was fine and sent me home. Been to the local state doc multiple times. They said I just need rest and that I need to exercise more. Obviously ***t advice. One guy suggested it was stress. I know something is wrong. So I'm here, looking for help.

I see there are some threads about long haulers. I have tried Ivermectin for a few days (got it prescribed from a guy in UK), I think it relieved my inflammation but caused an uptick in sharp head pain and vision issues, so I stopped taking it. I have tried tons of supplements - the only thing that seems to put a dent in this is antihistamines. I was over on Reddit for a bit until they started banning the subs because people were talking about taking Ivermectin or saying the vaccine was making them ill. That's a whole other issue.

The supplements I'm currently taking:

For mitochondrial health (I read somewhere that the immune system destroys mitochondria/depletes energy)
L-Carnitine
ALA
NAC
Creatine
Q10

For immune support:
Vitamin D3
Magnesium
K2 (if I'm high dosing D3)
Zinc

For brain health:
Omega 3s
Resveratrol
NAD+
Lions Mane Tea

Anti-inflammatory:
Loratadine (Claritin)
Roiboos Tea
Paracetemol
Naproxen
Corticosteroid inhaler at one point, rarely use now

**Fasting has helped immensely, I think because the autophagy reduces inflammation and if anyone's seen the Bruce Patterson vids, he seems to think the problem is inflammation from non-classical monocytes.

Obviously, this is a lot of ***t - I'm just trying to find something that will help. I have heard rumors that this is Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, that I may now have prion disease/mad cow disease. Heard that the vaccinated also shed spike proteins. Not sure what to believe honestly, there's so much ***t flying around. I do believe this virus came from a lab though so I see why the body has trouble clearing it. But I just don't understand why others (my wife, for instance) can have the sniffles for 3 days from this, and then I get completely railroaded, considering I was so healthy before. Sidenote, I tested myself for my D3 levels months ago, realized I was deficient, so maybe that contributed to my susceptibility.

Anyway, apologies for the novel. I just need help, and I'm running out of time and options. I have always been a firm believe in the ability to heal myself no matter what - just need the right tools. Any input you all have would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
I wrote an article connecting Long COVID to persistent gut issues. Hope this helps point you in the right direction.
 
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nejdev

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I wrote an article connecting Long COVID to persistent gut issues. Hope this helps point you in the right direction.
Thank you for sending me this, I'll look at it now.
 
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nejdev

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I wrote an article connecting Long COVID to persistent gut issues. Hope this helps point you in the right direction.
So in summary, your article says that COVID-19 screws up the gut, and if I want to know how to resolve it, I need to read your newsletter, and am then directed to this page:
1633438933142.png

Is that right?
 
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