COVID Long Hauler for 7 months, need help

[nejdev]

Hey folks,

New to Ray Peat...spent the last few days doing some reading and watching videos. I found this forum because I did a duckduckgo search cross-referencing Ivermectin and long haul COVID. It landed me on another thread about someone who was currently using Ivermectin to stop acute COVID. Before that I had never heard of Ray Peat, though I have been bio-hacking for awhile (nootropics and such, trying to optimize health)

I had acute COVID in March of this year - 2021 - previously super fit, training for a marathon, never got ill...35 y/o healthy male. COVID was the sickest I've ever been - horrible headaches, body fatigue, 39/40c fever for a week and a half, delerium, all sorts of fun stuff. I thought I was going to die, to the point where I was writing out all my passwords and personal info for my wife. After two weeks of hell, I pulled through. Interestingly enough, I never had shortness of breath or lung issues. I think I was infected through my eye because it was sore for 4 days before I tested positive and I just felt "off". Anyway, I recovered, felt fine a few weeks after I got over it, started running again. Then the real nightmare began.

Ever since I "recovered" I have had a revolving door of awful symptoms:
- Bone crushing fatigue
- Sore muscles for no reason
- Memory loss, brain fog, "drunk" or "spaced out" feeling
- Trouble forming speech
- Vision issues (seeing sparks/black spots in peripheral vision)
- Twitching muslces (my calves twitch daily, every day)
- Sharp head pain, headaches and occasional nausea
- Sharp chest pains (they have mostly resolved now)
- Post exertional malaise...for example, I went into the office two days ago after the lockdown ended in my country, and just spending the day socializing with co-workers put me in bed for two days. Just talking for an extended period of time hurts.

It's a lot, I know, and it's led me here. I don't know what's happening to me - my life is deteriorating. The doctors in my Scandinavian country ******* suck, excuse my language. When I was acutely ill, I was told to stay home and take an aspirin, and not to come in unless my lips turned blue or I stopped breathing. Unbelievable. Now that I have what seems to be chronic illness from this, I have been passed around like a bag of oreos. Been to the ER multiple times because I thought I was having a heart attack. Docs took blood, said I was fine and sent me home. Been to the local state doc multiple times. They said I just need rest and that I need to exercise more. Obviously ***t advice. One guy suggested it was stress. I know something is wrong. So I'm here, looking for help.

I see there are some threads about long haulers. I have tried Ivermectin for a few days (got it prescribed from a guy in UK), I think it relieved my inflammation but caused an uptick in sharp head pain and vision issues, so I stopped taking it. I have tried tons of supplements - the only thing that seems to put a dent in this is antihistamines. I was over on Reddit for a bit until they started banning the subs because people were talking about taking Ivermectin or saying the vaccine was making them ill. That's a whole other issue.

The supplements I'm currently taking:

For mitochondrial health (I read somewhere that the immune system destroys mitochondria/depletes energy)
L-Carnitine
ALA
NAC
Creatine
Q10

For immune support:
Vitamin D3
Magnesium
K2 (if I'm high dosing D3)
Zinc

For brain health:
Omega 3s
Resveratrol
NAD+
Lions Mane Tea

Anti-inflammatory:
Loratadine (Claritin)
Roiboos Tea
Paracetemol
Naproxen
Corticosteroid inhaler at one point, rarely use now

**Fasting has helped immensely, I think because the autophagy reduces inflammation and if anyone's seen the Bruce Patterson vids, he seems to think the problem is inflammation from non-classical monocytes.

Obviously, this is a lot of ***t - I'm just trying to find something that will help. I have heard rumors that this is Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, that I may now have prion disease/mad cow disease. Heard that the vaccinated also shed spike proteins. Not sure what to believe honestly, there's so much ***t flying around. I do believe this virus came from a lab though so I see why the body has trouble clearing it. But I just don't understand why others (my wife, for instance) can have the sniffles for 3 days from this, and then I get completely railroaded, considering I was so healthy before. Sidenote, I tested myself for my D3 levels months ago, realized I was deficient, so maybe that contributed to my susceptibility.

Anyway, apologies for the novel. I just need help, and I'm running out of time and options. I have always been a firm believe in the ability to heal myself no matter what - just need the right tools. Any input you all have would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

[tankasnowgod]

Hey folks,

New to Ray Peat...spent the last few days doing some reading and watching videos. I found this forum because I did a duckduckgo search cross-referencing Ivermectin and long haul COVID. It landed me on another thread about someone who was currently using Ivermectin to stop acute COVID. Before that I had never heard of Ray Peat, though I have been bio-hacking for awhile (nootropics and such, trying to optimize health)

I had acute COVID in March of this year - 2021 - previously super fit, training for a marathon, never got ill...35 y/o healthy male. COVID was the sickest I've ever been - horrible headaches, body fatigue, 39/40c fever for a week and a half, delerium, all sorts of fun stuff. I thought I was going to die, to the point where I was writing out all my passwords and personal info for my wife. After two weeks of hell, I pulled through. Interestingly enough, I never had shortness of breath or lung issues. I think I was infected through my eye because it was sore for 4 days before I tested positive and I just felt "off". Anyway, I recovered, felt fine a few weeks after I got over it, started running again. Then the real nightmare began.

Ever since I "recovered" I have had a revolving door of awful symptoms:
- Bone crushing fatigue
- Sore muscles for no reason
- Memory loss, brain fog, "drunk" or "spaced out" feeling
- Trouble forming speech
- Vision issues (seeing sparks/black spots in peripheral vision)
- Twitching muslces (my calves twitch daily, every day)
- Sharp head pain, headaches and occasional nausea
- Sharp chest pains (they have mostly resolved now)
- Post exertional malaise...for example, I went into the office two days ago after the lockdown ended in my country, and just spending the day socializing with co-workers put me in bed for two days. Just talking for an extended period of time hurts.

One member here said that her doctor noticed increased mast cell activation in vaccinated patients and the so-called "Long Covid." As such that would suggest excess histamine and serotonin. If you look at excess serotonin symptoms and serotonin syndromes, I think you'll find a lot of overlap. Anti-Histamines and Serotonin antagonists would be something to look into.

The supplements I'm currently taking:

For mitochondrial health (I read somewhere that the immune system destroys mitochondria/depletes energy)
L-Carnitine
ALA
NAC
Creatine
Q10

For immune support:
Vitamin D3
Magnesium
K2 (if I'm high dosing D3)
Zinc

For brain health:
Omega 3s
Resveratrol
NAD+
Lions Mane Tea

Anti-inflammatory:
Loratadine (Claritin)
Roiboos Tea
Paracetemol
Naproxen
Corticosteroid inhaler at one point, rarely use now

**Fasting has helped immensely, I think because the autophagy reduces inflammation and if anyone's seen the Bruce Patterson vids, he seems to think the problem is inflammation from non-classical monocytes.

Bruh, do you even Peat, bro? Why are you taking potent liver toxins like paracetemol, PUFAs like Omega 3, and nasty estrogenic compounds like resveratrol?

Why are you lowering your metabolism and causing fatigue with fasting? And why are you taking NAD+ instead of just regular niacinamide?

I don't think a lot of Peat's ideas (and the ideas discussed on this forum) will work for you if you try and mix in things that are antithetical to Peat's core ideas.

 

[Perry Staltic]

What's your thiamine intake like? I'd get rid of the paracetemol; liver toxic.

 

[tankasnowgod]

What's your thiamine intake like? I'd get rid of the paracetemol; liver toxic.

In the Nanji studies, researchers were able to induce serious liver disease with a combo of Omega 3 fats and alcohol. I would imagine the combo of Omega 3 and paracetemol is pretty problematic for liver, moreso than each one on it's own.

 

[Perry Staltic]

In the Nanji studies, researchers were able to induce serious liver disease with a combo of Omega 3 fats and alcohol. I would imagine the combo of Omega 3 and paracetemol is pretty problematic for liver, moreso than each one on it's own.

Sounds pretty toxic to me. For what benefit? More than I want to deal with.

Acetaminophen toxicity is the second most common cause of liver transplantation worldwide and the most common cause of liver transplantation in the US. It is responsible for 56,000 emergency department visits, 2,600 hospitalizations, and 500 deaths per year in the United States

Acetaminophen Toxicity - StatPearls - NCBI Bookshelf

 

[Michael Mohn]

Hey folks,

New to Ray Peat...spent the last few days doing some reading and watching videos. I found this forum because I did a duckduckgo search cross-referencing Ivermectin and long haul COVID. It landed me on another thread about someone who was currently using Ivermectin to stop acute COVID. Before that I had never heard of Ray Peat, though I have been bio-hacking for awhile (nootropics and such, trying to optimize health)

I had acute COVID in March of this year - 2021 - previously super fit, training for a marathon, never got ill...35 y/o healthy male. COVID was the sickest I've ever been - horrible headaches, body fatigue, 39/40c fever for a week and a half, delerium, all sorts of fun stuff. I thought I was going to die, to the point where I was writing out all my passwords and personal info for my wife. After two weeks of hell, I pulled through. Interestingly enough, I never had shortness of breath or lung issues. I think I was infected through my eye because it was sore for 4 days before I tested positive and I just felt "off". Anyway, I recovered, felt fine a few weeks after I got over it, started running again. Then the real nightmare began.

Ever since I "recovered" I have had a revolving door of awful symptoms:
- Bone crushing fatigue
- Sore muscles for no reason
- Memory loss, brain fog, "drunk" or "spaced out" feeling
- Trouble forming speech
- Vision issues (seeing sparks/black spots in peripheral vision)
- Twitching muslces (my calves twitch daily, every day)
- Sharp head pain, headaches and occasional nausea
- Sharp chest pains (they have mostly resolved now)
- Post exertional malaise...for example, I went into the office two days ago after the lockdown ended in my country, and just spending the day socializing with co-workers put me in bed for two days. Just talking for an extended period of time hurts.

It's a lot, I know, and it's led me here. I don't know what's happening to me - my life is deteriorating. The doctors in my Scandinavian country ******* suck, excuse my language. When I was acutely ill, I was told to stay home and take an aspirin, and not to come in unless my lips turned blue or I stopped breathing. Unbelievable. Now that I have what seems to be chronic illness from this, I have been passed around like a bag of oreos. Been to the ER multiple times because I thought I was having a heart attack. Docs took blood, said I was fine and sent me home. Been to the local state doc multiple times. They said I just need rest and that I need to exercise more. Obviously ***t advice. One guy suggested it was stress. I know something is wrong. So I'm here, looking for help.

I see there are some threads about long haulers. I have tried Ivermectin for a few days (got it prescribed from a guy in UK), I think it relieved my inflammation but caused an uptick in sharp head pain and vision issues, so I stopped taking it. I have tried tons of supplements - the only thing that seems to put a dent in this is antihistamines. I was over on Reddit for a bit until they started banning the subs because people were talking about taking Ivermectin or saying the vaccine was making them ill. That's a whole other issue.

The supplements I'm currently taking:

For mitochondrial health (I read somewhere that the immune system destroys mitochondria/depletes energy)
L-Carnitine
ALA
NAC
Creatine
Q10

For immune support:
Vitamin D3
Magnesium
K2 (if I'm high dosing D3)
Zinc

For brain health:
Omega 3s
Resveratrol
NAD+
Lions Mane Tea

Anti-inflammatory:
Loratadine (Claritin)
Roiboos Tea
Paracetemol
Naproxen
Corticosteroid inhaler at one point, rarely use now

**Fasting has helped immensely, I think because the autophagy reduces inflammation and if anyone's seen the Bruce Patterson vids, he seems to think the problem is inflammation from non-classical monocytes.

Obviously, this is a lot of ***t - I'm just trying to find something that will help. I have heard rumors that this is Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, that I may now have prion disease/mad cow disease. Heard that the vaccinated also shed spike proteins. Not sure what to believe honestly, there's so much ***t flying around. I do believe this virus came from a lab though so I see why the body has trouble clearing it. But I just don't understand why others (my wife, for instance) can have the sniffles for 3 days from this, and then I get completely railroaded, considering I was so healthy before. Sidenote, I tested myself for my D3 levels months ago, realized I was deficient, so maybe that contributed to my susceptibility.

Anyway, apologies for the novel. I just need help, and I'm running out of time and options. I have always been a firm believe in the ability to heal myself no matter what - just need the right tools. Any input you all have would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

If your definition of being healthy is running marathons your body might be in a better spot right now. Marathons give you all your symptoms and much worse. Throw out all your supps & meds and eat some real food, get sunshine, take an aspirin maybe pregnenolone or progesterone. Liver works miracles on fatigue.

 

[InChristAlone]

You have come to the right place!

 

[koreus]

Hi @nejdev

I had similar symptoms after catching covid in 2020. I'm also a young previously fit male. Its taken me over a year to get back to 80% of my former health so I would warn you that it may be a long road but do not be discouraged. You can recover. I'm sorry your Doctor couldn't help you I experienced the same and people with CFS have had the same experience since before covid. Chronic illness is a weakness of medicine as it is currently practised.

As other members have pointed out some of your health practises are very anti Peat (endurance exercise, PUFA, resviratrol). I would suggest you review the articles on his website so you can get on the same page. Peat has a special kind of insight that takes time to understand but its worth it even if you end up disagreeing with parts of it.

There are a few theories on what causes long covid, mast cell activation, excess histamine as mentioned, serotonin excess, central nervous system fatigue and also just hypometabolism of unknown etiology. I experienced symptoms of all of these (worse allergies, food intolerance, extreme fatigue etc)

Some advice I found helpful:
- Paying attention to how different foods make me feel. Some foods you could tolerate before may now exacerbate you symptoms.
- Not restricting diet to the point you are nutrient deficient. Eat good food to rebuild.
- Exercise gently. Waking should be your max output for at least 3 months if 1 day at the office crushes you. You can build up as your health improves but over doing it will set you back significantly
- If you feel tired then rest
- Don't stop moving entirely. This will result in sarcopenia, crashed metabolism and worsen your fatigue.
- Drop or delegate some responsibilities. You can't really rest if your mind is too busy.
- If you decide to experiment with some of the things you will find on this forum (antibiotics, T3, T4) keep track of how you feel and be patient with finding the right dose even of that ends up being none at all. I personally found all these things helpful for example but once I started recovering I had to stop the T3 because it was crashing my estrogen too low (naturally low estrogen).
- Regular antihistamine use helped me a lot. Worth experimenting with different ones to see which works best.
- Anything which increases mitochondrial biogenesis, improves the function of the electron transport chain or otherwise boosts metabolism is a massive plus (provided you have good nutrition). The simplest one your Dr already recommended: Aspirin. The more you learn about Peat the more you will understand its much more than a weak pain killer.
- High risk compounds no one talks about: SR9009 (increases mitochondrial biogenesis and decreases inflammation), Cardarine (improves metabolic disorder through not fully understood mechanisms involving prostaglandin receptors) , Cerebrolysin (regenerates damaged nervous system using procine nerve growth factors). Obviously I can't recommend any of these because of the high risk involved but they are there if you want to do your own research.

 

[tankasnowgod]

I had acute COVID in March of this year - 2021 - previously super fit, training for a marathon, never got ill...35 y/o healthy male. COVID was the sickest I've ever been - horrible headaches, body fatigue, 39/40c fever for a week and a half, delerium, all sorts of fun stuff. I thought I was going to die, to the point where I was writing out all my passwords and personal info for my wife. After two weeks of hell, I pulled through. Interestingly enough, I never had shortness of breath or lung issues. I think I was infected through my eye because it was sore for 4 days before I tested positive and I just felt "off". Anyway, I recovered, felt fine a few weeks after I got over it, started running again. Then the real nightmare began.

Didn't realize you mentioned the marathon thing until another member pointed it out above.

If you strip out the ideas of "Covid" causing this, it sounds similar to what Aran Gordon described before he was diagnosed with hemochromatosis. It took his doctors a few years before they realized his iron was incredibly high. I think a lot of the longer term chronic "mystery diseases" are getting diagnosed with this "Long Covid" label, as it's easy and convenient, and a lot of lesser known conditions take months/years to properly diagnose anyway. Probably more profitable in the current medical system, too.

I don't know if it's hemochromatosis, or any other disease, but getting a full iron panel, with ferritin, is probably a good idea. I know that moderately high and even high-normal ferritin can cause some of the fatigue issues you mentioned, and also know from personal experience that lowering a ferritin down to near deficiency can increase mood and energy.

 

[nejdev]

One member here said that her doctor noticed increased mast cell activation in vaccinated patients and the so-called "Long Covid." As such that would suggest excess histamine and serotonin. If you look at excess serotonin symptoms and serotonin syndromes, I think you'll find a lot of overlap. Anti-Histamines and Serotonin antagonists would be something to look into.

Bruh, do you even Peat, bro? Why are you taking potent liver toxins like paracetemol, PUFAs like Omega 3, and nasty estrogenic compounds like resveratrol?

Why are you lowering your metabolism and causing fatigue with fasting? And why are you taking NAD+ instead of just regular niacinamide?

I don't think a lot of Peat's ideas (and the ideas discussed on this forum) will work for you if you try and mix in things that are antithetical to Peat's core ideas.

Thanks for replying here. I don't Peat, not yet at first! I'd never even heard of the guy until my Google search a few days ago.

Didn't know paracetemol/Omega 3s were toxic, they are widely promoted. But I guess Peat has something else to say about that. I'll have to look this up.

I added NAD+ because I read that it helps with brain health and I'm very concerned about my cognitive issues.

Are Peat's core ideas tailored toward overcoming post viral fatigue or chronic fatigue? Do you know if he's spoken on long COVID? Would love some resources. Been in bed today listening to his videos. Appreciate your feedback.

 

[nejdev]

What's your thiamine intake like? I'd get rid of the paracetemol; liver toxic.

None besides what I get in my diet. And reviewing thiamine rich foods here, I don't eat a lot of foods rich in thiamine. Do you suppose there is a link?

 

[nejdev]

If your definition of being healthy is running marathons your body might be in a better spot right now. Marathons give you all your symptoms and much worse. Throw out all your supps & meds and eat some real food, get sunshine, take an aspirin maybe pregnenolone or progesterone. Liver works miracles on fatigue.

While I was training for a marathon I hadn't actually run any yet. But I was putting in a lot of distance - 30-40km a week before I got sick, and then it was all downhill after that. Tried exercising since and it just puts me down for days. I cook all my food and generally eat well. Sunshine is out of the question though, I'm way up north and it's winter like 9 months out of the year here - I think that's why I ended up being D deficient. Used to live in the sunbelt all my life in the states and was rarely ill.

I could pick up some liver. What is pregnenolone or progesterone? Never heard of either.

 

[nejdev]

Didn't realize you mentioned the marathon thing until another member pointed it out above.

If you strip out the ideas of "Covid" causing this, it sounds similar to what Aran Gordon described before he was diagnosed with hemochromatosis. It took his doctors a few years before they realized his iron was incredibly high. I think a lot of the longer term chronic "mystery diseases" are getting diagnosed with this "Long Covid" label, as it's easy and convenient, and a lot of lesser known conditions take months/years to properly diagnose anyway. Probably more profitable in the current medical system, too.

I don't know if it's hemochromatosis, or any other disease, but getting a full iron panel, with ferritin, is probably a good idea. I know that moderately high and even high-normal ferritin can cause some of the fatigue issues you mentioned, and also know from personal experience that lowering a ferritin down to near deficiency can increase mood and energy.

Getting a full blood panel this week, I'll double check to see if the full iron is included. Will report back.

 

[nejdev]

Hi @nejdev

I had similar symptoms after catching covid in 2020. I'm also a young previously fit male. Its taken me over a year to get back to 80% of my former health so I would warn you that it may be a long road but do not be discouraged. You can recover. I'm sorry your Doctor couldn't help you I experienced the same and people with CFS have had the same experience since before covid. Chronic illness is a weakness of medicine as it is currently practised.

As other members have pointed out some of your health practises are very anti Peat (endurance exercise, PUFA, resviratrol). I would suggest you review the articles on his website so you can get on the same page. Peat has a special kind of insight that takes time to understand but its worth it even if you end up disagreeing with parts of it.

There are a few theories on what causes long covid, mast cell activation, excess histamine as mentioned, serotonin excess, central nervous system fatigue and also just hypometabolism of unknown etiology. I experienced symptoms of all of these (worse allergies, food intolerance, extreme fatigue etc)

Some advice I found helpful:
- Paying attention to how different foods make me feel. Some foods you could tolerate before may now exacerbate you symptoms.
- Not restricting diet to the point you are nutrient deficient. Eat good food to rebuild.
- Exercise gently. Waking should be your max output for at least 3 months if 1 day at the office crushes you. You can build up as your health improves but over doing it will set you back significantly
- If you feel tired then rest
- Don't stop moving entirely. This will result in sarcopenia, crashed metabolism and worsen your fatigue.
- Drop or delegate some responsibilities. You can't really rest if your mind is too busy.
- If you decide to experiment with some of the things you will find on this forum (antibiotics, T3, T4) keep track of how you feel and be patient with finding the right dose even of that ends up being none at all. I personally found all these things helpful for example but once I started recovering I had to stop the T3 because it was crashing my estrogen too low (naturally low estrogen).
- Regular antihistamine use helped me a lot. Worth experimenting with different ones to see which works best.
- Anything which increases mitochondrial biogenesis, improves the function of the electron transport chain or otherwise boosts metabolism is a massive plus (provided you have good nutrition). The simplest one your Dr already recommended: Aspirin. The more you learn about Peat the more you will understand its much more than a weak pain killer.
- High risk compounds no one talks about: SR9009 (increases mitochondrial biogenesis and decreases inflammation), Cardarine (improves metabolic disorder through not fully understood mechanisms involving prostaglandin receptors) , Cerebrolysin (regenerates damaged nervous system using procine nerve growth factors). Obviously I can't recommend any of these because of the high risk involved but they are there if you want to do your own research.

Thanks for taking the time to write all this. My "recovery" has been agonizingly slow with many setbacks. Sometimes it feels like one step forward, two steps back.

I will look into the supplements you mentioned - never heard of T3 or T4. The antihistamines are good and read somewhere here that combining H1 AND H2 together would work better, so I'm trying that next.

Is aspirin good or bad, and why? Seem to get mixed reactions here. I'm very interested in the other things you mentioned as well, but after my experience with IVM I'm reticent to try anything that could cause damage.

Anyway, thanks so much. I'm going to scale back my activity to one walk a day (30 minutes) and stop trying to run anymore. Any kind of socializing/reporting to the office is now off the table. I have to take care of a 1 year old as well, so will need to get creative to reduce my activity.

 

[Perry Staltic]

None besides what I get in my diet. And reviewing thiamine rich foods here, I don't eat a lot of foods rich in thiamine. Do you suppose there is a link?

With your symptoms, possibly so. It would be something worth investigating. Have you taken any antibiotics recently or in past years? Some of them can be very bad for depleting B1. This is a good website for researching causes and effects of B1 deficiency.

Hormones Mattter

Where health, hormones, and a whole bunch of other stuff, make sense.

www.hormonesmatter.com

 

[nejdev]

With your symptoms, possibly so. It would be something worth investigating. Have you taken any antibiotics recently or in past years? Some of them can be very bad for depleting B1. This is a good website for researching causes and effects of B1 deficiency.

Hormones Mattter

Where health, hormones, and a whole bunch of other stuff, make sense.

www.hormonesmatter.com

Never take antibiotics, at all. I think the last time I took them was like 10 years ago. I'll check the link though.

 

[Perry Staltic]

Never take antibiotics, at all. I think the last time I took them was like 10 years ago. I'll check the link though.

With the wrong antibiotic 10 years ago can still be a problem. That site documents some cases.

 

[Xisca]

You seem to not know about B1, thiamin, being the foundation of energy. Have a look at the website hormonesmatter. com and search for a good B-complex + a source of any thiamin so you can start. you have to ramp up until you find your sweetspot. You really have many signs that it is the issue, and i have seen people who recovered from long covid in a few days only with thiamin, when they wer previously fit.

 

[JohnHafterson]

Skol - glad anti histamines provide some benefit may be interesting to play around with various H1/H2s.

Taurine and Thiamines:

Thiamine/benfotiamine along with a methylated b complex for sure - cardio ( endothelial ), neuro/metabolic. Nice schematic example of thiamine actions in the context of HIV ( cardio, neuro, immune, inflammatory condition like CV19 )



Taurine as well. Good multi target/action cardio, neuro, mitochondrial regeneration:

 

[TabulaRasa]

I’d never heard about Aspirin helping mitochondria. That’s interesting. Would this be contraindicated if one had ulcerative colitis? Anyone know?