Another acne thread...are there any true success stories?

[curious_anthro]

Sorry for yet another thread on this but I wanted up to date feedback... also, I have talked about this on other threads but I wanted to focus specifically on acne here.

I feel like this is one issue on the forum that I don't see many people reporting true healing from. Perhaps there are various reasons i.e., complex and multi-factorial etiology, differences between acne in men and women...but my skin has gotten so bad I am ready to give up and try Accutane now. I am well aware of the horrid side effects but it has gone beyond vanity to the point where it is causing me physical pain from deep cysts, redness/soreness and scarring and it affects my day to day quality of life so much that I feel I would trade some bad side affects from a chemo grade drug for the relief. Sad? Absolutely. But I know there are others on here that have expressed this level of despair.

I know for a fact there is both gut and hormone involvement here but untangling that has proven to be too difficult. I used to have perfect skin while on the pill yet I am sure my unfortunate long-term use of it is the cause of all of this. I posted before that topical manuka honey and carrot salad were helping but I am no longer seeing the same benefits. I have tried many other things recommended on the forum such as aspirin, liver, oysters, b-vitamins, all fat soluble vitamins (both individually and together), natural anti-microbials (oregano, monolaurin, garlic, clove, neem, triphala) and progesterone with no improvement.

Is there anyone (specifically women) out there who can share a story of success to give me hope?

 

[Frostee]

I'm not a woman but I have also had cystic/nodular acne since my teens and nothing natural helped me. I tried no starch, high vitamin A (REALLY high vitamin A), Minocycline (two separate courses), Penicillin VK, liver/oysters/thyroid/various vitamins. Nothing could stop my persistent acne. However I do want to say for me, Accutane worked like a miracle, nothing could have possibly worked better than that. My only side effects were dry lips, and dry eyes. Very occasionally (1-2x month) body/muscle aches. For what its worth, I used a low dose like explained in this article Considering Low Dose Accutane As A Last Resort? Here’s What You Need To Know.

I also credit accutane for greatly helping with the pain since of course I wasn't getting any more painful cysts.

 

[PeatBull]

Mine is better with a lots of liver and some cynoplus. Aswell asprin improves it a litle bit. I use a solution of asprin and niacinamide topically too, helps a bit.

 

[curious_anthro]

I'm not a woman but I have also had cystic/nodular acne since my teens and nothing natural helped me. I tried no starch, high vitamin A (REALLY high vitamin A), Minocycline (two separate courses), Penicillin VK, liver/oysters/thyroid/various vitamins. Nothing could stop my persistent acne. However I do want to say for me, Accutane worked like a miracle, nothing could have possibly worked better than that. My only side effects were dry lips, and dry eyes. Very occasionally (1-2x month) body/muscle aches. For what its worth, I used a low dose like explained in this article Considering Low Dose Accutane As A Last Resort? Here’s What You Need To Know.

I also credit accutane for greatly helping with the pain since of course I wasn't getting any more painful cysts.

Thank you for sharing that! I have several friends who have been on it for a short course and have not really suffered much from any side effects so its nice to hear it was the same for you. Its obviously not fixing the cause but its about weighing pros/cons, especially because it can take such a toll on mental health.

How long has it been since you took it and how old were you? Did the muscle aches subside after you stopped? How long did you take it for? (sorry for all the questions)

 

[curious_anthro]

Mine is better with a lots of liver and some cynoplus. Aswell asprin improves it a litle bit. I use a solution of asprin and niacinamide topically too, helps a bit.

Liver consistently causes breakouts. Aspirin does not affect my skin at all. Also tried niacinamide - noticed no improvements at all. I have not touched thyroid yet because I feel I am not in a place to respond well to it. But I am glad that worked for you!

 

[LadyRae]

@curious_anthro When I started reading your post, I said to myself, oh! I may have some insight to share.... But after reading it all, well, you have tried everything! Gut dysfunction/dysbiosis, hormonal fluctuations... Wow!

By the way, how old are you?

Any sort of diet change/elimination will take at least a month or 2 to help, and it's so hard to really commit to that without messing up (eating something??? irritating).

I experienced super clear skin on keto, before I found Peat, and then dealt with acne adding carbs back in. I lost my cycle on keto, so for a year or so I was dealing with hormones AND new gut bacteria. Plus I was eliminating PUFA, eating low fat, so some of my acne could have been from detoxing estrogen from stored PUFA, and from burning through my own PUFA stores...yuck.

I did begin tretinoin cream during this time, not just for acne, which is gone now, but for anti-aging, as it is proven to repair sun damage, fine lines, and delay aging when used over a year. I LOVE it! It took 6-8 months to adjust to (minor peeling and redness). Dr. Dray vids on YouTube helped. She has accutane videos too.

I'm 45, btw...

I hear you- after spending so much time and energy trying to heal I would also take out the "big guns". Have you been to a conventional Dermatologist? What do they say/recommend?

 

[AsuraAcademy]

My acne stopped after a week of eating Indian Gooseberry first thing in the morning before my breakfast. I ate it with the fiber in it. As, my acne stopped, I continued to eat it for 3 more years. I suspect it stopped due to Vitamin C and the fiber in it. The fiber feels insoluble similar to carrot fiber.
If you couldn't find Indian Gooseberry in your country try Vitamin C and also try eating raw carrots daily for a week.

2% Salicylic acid peel or even face wash will help skin.

 

[Korven]

Sorry for yet another thread on this but I wanted up to date feedback... also, I have talked about this on other threads but I wanted to focus specifically on acne here.

I feel like this is one issue on the forum that I don't see many people reporting true healing from. Perhaps there are various reasons i.e., complex and multi-factorial etiology, differences between acne in men and women...but my skin has gotten so bad I am ready to give up and try Accutane now. I am well aware of the horrid side effects but it has gone beyond vanity to the point where it is causing me physical pain from deep cysts, redness/soreness and scarring and it affects my day to day quality of life so much that I feel I would trade some bad side affects from a chemo grade drug for the relief. Sad? Absolutely. But I know there are others on here that have expressed this level of despair.

I know for a fact there is both gut and hormone involvement here but untangling that has proven to be too difficult. I used to have perfect skin while on the pill yet I am sure my unfortunate long-term use of it is the cause of all of this. I posted before that topical manuka honey and carrot salad were helping but I am no longer seeing the same benefits. I have tried many other things recommended on the forum such as aspirin, liver, oysters, b-vitamins, all fat soluble vitamins (both individually and together), natural anti-microbials (oregano, monolaurin, garlic, clove, neem, triphala) and progesterone with no improvement.

Is there anyone (specifically women) out there who can share a story of success to give me hope?

(Not a woman) but my adult acne/rosacea is completely gone since I stopped eating foods that I am allergic/intolerant to. TMI warning but I would constantly have white pustules around my mouth and chin and 2-3x monthly massive cysts on my jaw line that would ooze pus and leave crater-like scars. I am sorry to hear you are going through this, it's really a dreadful experience and leaves you feeling very helpless and stressed out.

Like you I had tried *everything* (not joking I think I have spent €10000 on pills and potions to stop the acne) but my skin didn't heal until I cut out all fruits, sugar, honey from my diet. For some reason I am intolerant to fructose and since I stopped eating these foods my skin is 100% clear. Nightshades and spicy food will also reliably cause gut inflammation and skin inflammation for me. When I tried doing a Ray Peat diet with loads of OJ, fruits and honey my skin was a nightmare.

It is very individual which foods trigger skin inflammation and acne, so unfortunately it involves a lot of trial and error and time... at least it did for me.

Until you can figure out the root cause, maybe try a lactoferrin/zinc/vitamin E combo? It's a good anti-estrogen, anti-endotoxin stack that help reducea acne lesions. Lactoferrin + Vitamin E + Zinc for Hormonal Acne - Full Text View - ClinicalTrials.gov

"We previously showed that twice daily intake of a combination of 100 mg lactoferrin, 11 IU vitamin E, and 5 mg zinc significantly reduced both inflammatory and non-inflammatory acne lesions compared to placebo control. In that study, females showed an overall better response compared to males in terms of total lesions."

 

[curious_anthro]

@curious_anthro When I started reading your post, I said to myself, oh! I may have some insight to share.... But after reading it all, well, you have tried everything! Gut dysfunction/dysbiosis, hormonal fluctuations... Wow!

By the way, how old are you?

Any sort of diet change/elimination will take at least a month or 2 to help, and it's so hard to really commit to that without messing up (eating something??? irritating).

I experienced super clear skin on keto, before I found Peat, and then dealt with acne adding carbs back in. I lost my cycle on keto, so for a year or so I was dealing with hormones AND new gut bacteria. Plus I was eliminating PUFA, eating low fat, so some of my acne could have been from detoxing estrogen from stored PUFA, and from burning through my own PUFA stores...yuck.

I did begin tretinoin cream during this time, not just for acne, which is gone now, but for anti-aging, as it is proven to repair sun damage, fine lines, and delay aging when used over a year. I LOVE it! It took 6-8 months to adjust to (minor peeling and redness). Dr. Dray vids on YouTube helped. She has accutane videos too.

I'm 45, btw...

I hear you- after spending so much time and energy trying to heal I would also take out the "big guns". Have you been to a conventional Dermatologist? What do they say/recommend?

Thanks @LadyRae , nice to hear about your experience! Sadly, I have nearly tried it all

I tried tretinoin I think when I was a teenager before I went on the pill... maybe it won't hurt to try again, however, it is an internally driven issue so I don't have much hope for anything topical.

I am 30! The dermatologist wants me to go on accutane...

 

[Peachy]

You're getting lots of good insight here!

I had typical teenage breakouts. Went on birth control which cleared up my skin completely. Then suffered with much worse acne when I got off BC in my early 20s.

Now in my 40s I get compliments on my skin a lot - no breakouts or scarring. It took a lot of troubleshooting and now I'm taking what I learned and helping my son with his acne. It's gone from what I'd call severe to mild-moderate and is continuing to improve. His was much worse than mine was.

If you don't do well with vitamin A, look at your zinc stores. Zinc transports vitamin a - moves it out of the liver and into the tissues.

Zinc deficiency can happen when you're not getting enough. Or if it's being burned through rapidly when there is inflammation.

To deal with the inflammation, my son is doing a dandelion "cleanse" one week every month. I get bulk dandelion root from Amazon and make a decoction with it. 1 tablespoon herb, 3 cups water, simmer for 30 min until water is reduced by roughly half. He does this once a day but it could be done twice daily.

So the plan we use:

-deal with the inflammation with dandelion (this helped me immensely when I was younger too)
-up the zinc (1-2 canned oysters daily apart from phytic-acid-containing foods for max absorption - oysters are king for anything skin related)
-once these things are in place, liver can help

Topically, he uses a b3/glycine serum and an oil that contains retinol and some herbs.

 

[curious_anthro]

(Not a woman) but my adult acne/rosacea is completely gone since I stopped eating foods that I am allergic/intolerant to. TMI warning but I would constantly have white pustules around my mouth and chin and 2-3x monthly massive cysts on my jaw line that would ooze pus and leave crater-like scars. I am sorry to hear you are going through this, it's really a dreadful experience and leaves you feeling very helpless and stressed out.

Like you I had tried *everything* (not joking I think I have spent €10000 on pills and potions to stop the acne) but my skin didn't heal until I cut out all fruits, sugar, honey from my diet. For some reason I am intolerant to fructose and since I stopped eating these foods my skin is 100% clear. Nightshades and spicy food will also reliably cause gut inflammation and skin inflammation for me. When I tried doing a Ray Peat diet with loads of OJ, fruits and honey my skin was a nightmare.

It is very individual which foods trigger skin inflammation and acne, so unfortunately it involves a lot of trial and error and time... at least it did for me.

Until you can figure out the root cause, maybe try a lactoferrin/zinc/vitamin E combo? It's a good anti-estrogen, anti-endotoxin stack that help reducea acne lesions. Lactoferrin + Vitamin E + Zinc for Hormonal Acne - Full Text View - ClinicalTrials.gov

"We previously showed that twice daily intake of a combination of 100 mg lactoferrin, 11 IU vitamin E, and 5 mg zinc significantly reduced both inflammatory and non-inflammatory acne lesions compared to placebo control. In that study, females showed an overall better response compared to males in terms of total lesions."

Thanks Korven I am going to try lactoferrin after our exchange about it! Vitamin E consistently causes breakouts unfortunately.

I do feel I react to any foods negatively, except maybe dairy, but tried cutting it out and found no relief so now I only occasionally have skyr, ice cream and cheese.

You're getting lots of good insight here!

I had typical teenage breakouts. Went on birth control which cleared up my skin completely. Then suffered with much worse acne when I got off BC in my early 20s.

Now in my 40s I get compliments on my skin a lot - no breakouts or scarring. It took a lot of troubleshooting and now I'm taking what I learned and helping my son with his acne. It's gone from what I'd call severe to mild-moderate and is continuing to improve. His was much worse than mine was.

If you don't do well with vitamin A, look at your zinc stores. Zinc transports vitamin a - moves it out of the liver and into the tissues.

Zinc deficiency can happen when you're not getting enough. Or if it's being burned through rapidly when there is inflammation.

To deal with the inflammation, my son is doing a dandelion "cleanse" one week every month. I get bulk dandelion root from Amazon and make a decoction with it. 1 tablespoon herb, 3 cups water, simmer for 30 min until water is reduced by roughly half. He does this once a day but it could be done twice daily.

So the plan we use:

-deal with the inflammation with dandelion (this helped me immensely when I was younger too)
-up the zinc (1-2 canned oysters daily apart from phytic-acid-containing foods for max absorption - oysters are king for anything skin related)
-once these things are in place, liver can help

Topically, he uses a b3/glycine serum and an oil that contains retinol and some herbs.

Thank you Peachy, I did try zinc after someone recommended it to me on another thread (I think it was you!) but sadly noticed no improvement even after trying 50mg/day consecutively! Sadly I will not touch oysters with a ten foot pole now after getting a severe case of norovirus from them. Dessicated oyster meat also did nothing.
Will try the dandelion tea though as that is a easy thing to incorporate into my day and appreciate your insights :)

 

[curious_anthro]

My acne stopped after a week of eating Indian Gooseberry first thing in the morning before my breakfast. I ate it with the fiber in it. As, my acne stopped, I continued to eat it for 3 more years. I suspect it stopped due to Vitamin C and the fiber in it. The fiber feels insoluble similar to carrot fiber.
If you couldn't find Indian Gooseberry in your country try Vitamin C and also try eating raw carrots daily for a week.

2% Salicylic acid peel or even face wash will help skin.

Wow never heard of that, I will look into it. Any brand recommendations? I am based in the UK. I have tried the raw carrot daily which worked initially but then stopped working after a while.

 

[Peachy]

Thank you Peachy, I did try zinc after someone recommended it to me on another thread (I think it was you!) but sadly noticed no improvement even after trying 50mg/day consecutively! Sadly I will not touch oysters with a ten foot pole now after getting a severe case of norovirus from them. Dessicated oyster meat also did nothing.
Will try the dandelion tea though as that is a easy thing to incorporate into my day and appreciate your insights :)

The dandelion was enough to make a big improvement in my skin. (I didn’t eat oysters for acne when I was younger.)

It was actually an herb blend that I used with burdock root and another herb that I can’t remember offhand. But I’d start with just dandelion and possibly add burdock if something stronger is needed. Dandelion alone works well for my son.

 

[Korven]

Thanks Korven I am going to try lactoferrin after our exchange about it! Vitamin E consistently causes breakouts unfortunately.

I do feel I react to any foods negatively, except maybe dairy, but tried cutting it out and found no relief so now I only occasionally have skyr, ice cream and cheese.

Holding my thumbs that the lactoferrin will help!

I guess what I tried to say is that doing an elimination diet can be awfully helpful if your acne is caused by food intolerances/allergies. I did not feel like I was reacting negatively to any specific foods, including fruits/sugar/honey, but since eliminating them from my diet all skin inflammation went away in just a few days. I have been racking my brains trying to figure out whether it is dairy or milk thats the problem, or starches etc, or something else (probably developed an eating disorder in the process) so I also understand the difficulties with overanalyzing and troubleshooting diet. Still... controlled food elimination trials was the only thing that worked for me. No creams could ever fix what was an internal problem for me. Best of luck to you :)

 

[curious_anthro]

The dandelion was enough to make a big improvement in my skin. (I didn’t eat oysters for acne when I was younger.)

It was actually an herb blend that I used with burdock root and another herb that I can’t remember offhand. But I’d start with just dandelion and possibly add burdock if something stronger is needed. Dandelion alone works well for my son.

Helpful context, many thanks! Will report back if it helps!

 

[curious_anthro]

Holding my thumbs that the lactoferrin will help!

I guess what I tried to say is that doing an elimination diet can be awfully helpful if your acne is caused by food intolerances/allergies. I did not feel like I was reacting negatively to any specific foods, including fruits/sugar/honey, but since eliminating them from my diet all skin inflammation went away in just a few days. I have been racking my brains trying to figure out whether it is dairy or milk thats the problem, or starches etc, or something else (probably developed an eating disorder in the process) so I also understand the difficulties with overanalyzing and troubleshooting diet. Still... controlled food elimination trials was the only thing that worked for me. No creams could ever fix what was an internal problem for me. Best of luck to you :)

I see. I did have good skin when I was low carb/sugar so it does make me wonder if I should cut that out for a bit to see. If so, that would be so sad as that is my fav part of finding Ray Peat's work that I can actually enjoy these foods. I at least know butter is safe so it could be worse LOL

Obviously gut/endotoxins play a huge role in acne so that may be why the elimination diet worked so well. Have you tried re-introducing any of those foods after a period of cutting them out?

 

[AsuraAcademy]

Wow never heard of that, I will look into it. Any brand recommendations? I am based in the UK. I have tried the raw carrot daily which worked initially but then stopped working after a while.

There is a Vitamin C derived from a fruit. Whole Vitamin C or something sorry I forgot the name. Generallt, ascorbate is better than Ascorbic acid from my knowledge.

I don't know much about Vitamin C brand. But, let me give some insights from my experience with Acne.

1. I think, Accutane (isotretinoin) works by downregulating prolactin receptors in our body. So focusing on prolactin downregulation will help you. But, nothing works fast like Accutane.

2. Also, overactive adrenals leading to over production of DHEA can lead to acne.

3. While, you adjust all the nutritional parameters - lifestyle things like porn or any thrilling imagination of sex can cause acne. Love making or having sex with wife might not cause acne. During my teenage, I had acne everytime I watched porn and jerked off to it. The sexual arousal we feel while watching porn is not only due to naked women. It's also, due to the thrilling nature of it. Porn is not showing love making with wife. It shows cheating, sneaky sex, quick seductions and things you are not supposed to do in general. Hope you got the rough idea. Thrilling sexual arousal is many times powerful than normal sexual arousal as our adrenals are stimulated through thrill.
More adrenal stimulation -> more DHEA -> more likeliness of it being converted to DHEA Sulphate or Estrogen. Estrogen and Prolactin can work together for stimulation and growth of Sebaceous glands which leads to acne.

All the things, I mentioned here are just a rough idea I had several years back. Please do your own research for factual accuracy.

 

[curious_anthro]

There is a Vitamin C derived from a fruit. Whole Vitamin C or something sorry I forgot the name. Generallt, ascorbate is better than Ascorbic acid from my knowledge.

I don't know much about Vitamin C brand. But, let me give some insights from my experience with Acne.

1. I think, Accutane (isotretinoin) works by downregulating prolactin receptors in our body. So focusing on prolactin downregulation will help you. But, nothing works fast like Accutane.

2. Also, overactive adrenals leading to over production of DHEA can lead to acne.

3. While, you adjust all the nutritional parameters - lifestyle things like porn or any thrilling imagination of sex can cause acne. Love making or having sex with wife might not cause acne. During my teenage, I had acne everytime I watched porn and jerked off to it. The sexual arousal we feel while watching porn is not only due to naked women. It's also, due to the thrilling nature of it. Porn is not showing love making with wife. It shows cheating, sneaky sex, quick seductions and things you are not supposed to do in general. Hope you got the rough idea. Thrilling sexual arousal is many times powerful than normal sexual arousal as our adrenals are stimulated through thrill.
More adrenal stimulation -> more DHEA -> more likeliness of it being converted to DHEA Sulphate or Estrogen. Estrogen and Prolactin can work together for stimulation and growth of Sebaceous glands which leads to acne.

All the things, I mentioned here are just a rough idea I had several years back. Please do your own research for factual accuracy.

Yes I have connected the overactive adrenals part. Just can't seem to find anything that helps 'calm' them successfully without causing other symptoms (e.g., I also suffer from chronic fatigue). Also, my prolactin levels were normal on a blood test and I have done things to lower it anyway without success.

I know I am estrogen dominant but even with extremely high doses of progesterone and taking other estrogen lowering substances (e.g., aspirin, cypro) I cannot seem to get any relief. I think perhaps my body does not absorb or utilise those substances well - maybe because of hypothyroidism or lacking co-factors? I have not done enough research to fully understand it yet.

I do not struggle with any of those sexual things you mentioned (don't watch porn) but I find that connection so fascinating as I am sure there are other 'thrilling' things that can cause adrenal over-stimulation that people might not realise. Something to ponder on and appreciate your insights

 

[Korven]

I see. I did have good skin when I was low carb/sugar so it does make me wonder if I should cut that out for a bit to see. If so, that would be so sad as that is my fav part of finding Ray Peat's work that I can actually enjoy these foods. I at least know butter is safe so it could be worse LOL

Obviously gut/endotoxins play a huge role in acne so that may be why the elimination diet worked so well. Have you tried re-introducing any of those foods after a period of cutting them out?

I think it could be worth a try, at least before you hop on the Accutane train (wouldn't blame you though, I thought about it many times). Maybe some of us with European ancestry are not very well-adapted to high fruit/fructose intake?

For sure I think improved gut health was a big factor, again TMI warning but my poops have never been this nice. I can eat 1 or 2 apples per day and have no skin issues, however I am very satisfied with my current diet and having nice looking skin so I really see no reason in changing my diet!

 

[Peachy]

Helpful context, many thanks! Will report back if it helps!

Sure thing! I thought I should also mention that the first time you do this you may break out more during that week. The following week is when the improvement happens.

We’ve had success with this root & leaf tea as well.

Really hope you find what works for you.