No Fap No Porn 2013 (NSFW) Adult Topic Thread!

[Dopamine]

I have had no-fap make me feel worse as well sometimes. The thing with addiction and withdrawals though is that it is supposed to get worse before it gets better. This is difficult because when you are struggling the most is also when you are most likely to relapse. I would treat fapping like any other addiction. Actually very possibly harder to deal with than any other addiction: "Freud suggested to Fliess in 1897 that addictions, including that to tobacco, were substitutes for masturbation, "the one great habit."

Orgasm is a VERY powerful high. I have used nicotine and the dopamine hit with subsequent prolactin rise feels very similar though 100x less intense then orgasm. The first time I took a hit of nicotine it hit me how sexual/orgasmic it felt. I have not been able to get addicted to nicotine... not very addicting to me. I think because orgasm is a way greater high. Nicotine pales in comparison.

 

[conhnore]

are you no-fappers opposed to regular masturbation without ejaculation? if so, any reasons as to why?

 

[Dopamine]

are you no-fappers opposed to regular masturbation without ejaculation? if so, any reasons as to why?

I think it's something that everyone has to decide for themselves. I am very much opposed to pornography because it has been proven to cause erectile dysfunction and over stimulation of the brain over time through the coolidge effect. I have heard of men having sexual problems even in the absence of porn so I think the issue goes deeper then porn for many. What you are describing is called edging and I think its more or less the same as fapping because it reinforces the same pathways in the brain.

I would encourage everyone to go 90 days without porn or masturbation and see how they feel by the end. Many will choose to continue because they have found new enjoyment in other areas of their life, gotten a girlfriend/boyfriend, picked up new hobbies etc... If nothing else I think it is a good exercise of discipline and you have really nothing to lose and potentially everything to gain.

 

[ecstatichamster]

Nice post @Dopamine

 

[Dopamine]

I fall off the wagon with this multiple times per day. But I want to stick with it, for my pride. I am proud boy after all. Or at least I could be, if I could pass this tennet. Any tips?

I would try to identify what triggers you and the times of day where you are most susceptible to caving:

-If you do it every morning then adopt a better morning routine like waking to an alarm clock placed away from the bed. This forces you to get up to turn it off. Then go make breakfast and get on with your day etc...
-If you do it in the shower then have quick ~2/3min cold showers instead. It is really invigorating and not long enough to really drop your core body temp so it won't tank metabolism. Also another good practice of discipline and willpower.
-If you do it before bed then use CBT sleep techniques: Read before bed in another room and only go to bed when you feel sleepy. If you don't fall asleep in around 15min then get up and go back to reading until sleepy again. Repeat.
-You don't want to lie around with your mind wandering. You want to stay busy.
-Avoid internet sites with naked women... womens rugby... sexy midget mud wrestling ... whatever your into

 

[aarfai]

How long does it take to recovery from porn and/or masturbation?

 

[Stryker]

the increase in motivation i feel after just 7 days is nothing short of astounding

 

[Fractality]

The last time I experimented with this my libido increased to the point of distractibility after a couple of weeks or so. I would be in my office and everytime I heard heels walking in the hallway I had this extreme urge to go see who it is and talk to them. It was affecting my work focus so I stopped. Recently, I took a short break from last Tuesday to this past Sunday. I felt a bit ashamed that I "gave in" and I did feel more "beta." Obviously attributing how I felt to that masturbation session isn't very scientific. Anyways, I have decided to resume this no fap/porn experiment. If my libido gets too distracting then I will masturbate but with my imagination only.

 

[ecstatichamster]

if you are going to masturbate, do so to sensation only, just focusing on the feelings, going very slow and with a VERY light hand, and use lube.

Also, to NOT masturbate very easily, if you have a partner, do a lot of naked cuddling and you won't feel the need to masturbate so much.

Avoid fantasy instantly, as soon as you perceive a fantasy, distract yourself. You will feel horny for 30 minutes or so, then it goes away. Knowing this makes it a lot easier to realize that it passes quickly.

 

[jaguar43]

I think it's something that everyone has to decide for themselves. I am very much opposed to pornography because it has been proven to cause erectile dysfunction and over stimulation of the brain over time through the coolidge effect. I have heard of men having sexual problems even in the absence of porn so I think the issue goes deeper then porn for many. What you are describing is called edging and I think its more or less the same as fapping because it reinforces the same pathways in the brain.

I would encourage everyone to go 90 days without porn or masturbation and see how they feel by the end. Many will choose to continue because they have found new enjoyment in other areas of their life, gotten a girlfriend/boyfriend, picked up new hobbies etc... If nothing else I think it is a good exercise of discipline and you have really nothing to lose and potentially everything to gain.

The coolidge effect is a theory that is based on behavior endocrinology, and that school is correlated with the behavior psychology of skinner and Watson. Ray Peat has written dismissively of behavior psychology. The idea that "motor programs" command the organism is something that he questions. Even though I don't know his opinion on the coolidge effect, I don't think he would support the theory.

 

[Dopamine]

The incentive sensitization theory of addiction: some current issues

"Addiction implies a pathological and compulsive pattern of drug-seeking and drug-taking behaviours, which occupies an inordinate amount of an individual's time and thoughts, and persists despite adverse consequences (Hasin et al. 2006). Addicts also find it difficult to reduce or terminate drug use, even when they desire to do so. Finally, addicts are highly vulnerable to relapse even after long abstinence and well after symptoms of withdrawal have disappeared."

"Incentive sensitization produces a bias of attentional processing towards drug-associated stimuli and pathological motivation for drugs (compulsive ‘wanting’). When combined with impaired executive control over behaviour, incentive sensitization culminates in the core symptoms of addiction (Robinson & Berridge 1993,2000, 2003)."

 

[conhnore]

I have heard of men having sexual problems even in the absence of porn so I think the issue goes deeper then porn for many.

thank you for sharing

 

[jaguar43]

The incentive sensitization theory of addiction: some current issues

"Addiction implies a pathological and compulsive pattern of drug-seeking and drug-taking behaviours, which occupies an inordinate amount of an individual's time and thoughts, and persists despite adverse consequences (Hasin et al. 2006). Addicts also find it difficult to reduce or terminate drug use, even when they desire to do so. Finally, addicts are highly vulnerable to relapse even after long abstinence and well after symptoms of withdrawal have disappeared."

"Incentive sensitization produces a bias of attentional processing towards drug-associated stimuli and pathological motivation for drugs (compulsive ‘wanting’). When combined with impaired executive control over behaviour, incentive sensitization culminates in the core symptoms of addiction (Robinson & Berridge 1993,2000, 2003)."

If pornography is an addiction, then so is eating. I have doubts whether there was any truth to sex addiction.

 

[Dopamine]

If pornography is an addiction, then so is eating. I have doubts whether there was any truth to sex addiction.

Pornography is neither necessary nor useful in my opinion. Food is both necessary and useful.
I suppose it is mostly a question of utility and necessity as many things could be considered addictive and it becomes redundant.

Masturbation may be useful to relieve stress. Masturbation addiction however could be the source of the stress in the first place and we are just relieving the withdrawals periodically...

Most people have been fapping since very young and can't remember what life was like before they started. This is why I think it is good to take a break and find out what kind of person you are when you are fap free for a while. After this period you can go back to fapping or keep going on nofap depending on whether you feel it impacts you in a negative or positive way.

 

[Greg says]

[Does masturbation or sex have positive or negative effects on the hormones or stress?] "Generally positive." - Ray Peat

 

[Dopamine]

[Does masturbation or sex have positive or negative effects on the hormones or stress?] "Generally positive." - Ray Peat

Perhaps. But if he didn't say how and why then I would be hesitant to accept that statement as definitive. I also don't think sex and masturbation can be lumped together as psychologically sex probaly reinforces a sense of power. Masturbation may reinforce a sense of helplessness in my opinion. All just speculation really- there aren't many viable studies to look at on this topic. This is why people should experiment for themselves.

 

[WestCoaster]

If anyone has ever gone over to the YourBrainRebalanced forum and looked at some of the threads there, there is a general consensus on a few things from what people experience. Keep in mind though, the length of time and experience varies greatly just how long someone has been addicted to porn and/or masturbates during the day.

1. The bare minimum is at least a 90 day reboot, but realistically these guys go at least 150 days or more. Some even have to go a full year.
2. There is a general consensus of weight loss (this could be due to the low prolactin or increased prolactin sensitivity?) Prolactin spikes after ejaculating, and it's cumulative if you do it multiple times daily.
3. Some have reported deeper voices. I've always equated deeper voices to Testosterone which would tell me there is a Testosterone increase. I also believe people reported higher T numbers after a few months of rebooting.
4. Sensitivity increases drastically, perhaps to do with the Dopamine or it's receptors (perhaps someone could reiterate a little more on this). Basically, your old situation might have been you could never ejaculate during intercourse, or you'd go limp. Now with increased sensitivity you might ejaculate within 1-5 min (which seems to be normal if you think about it). Stress often equated with poor performance so to speak, so a natural state might be a quick round of 1-5 min, as opposed to say 20-30 or 40 min where you can't ejaculate.
5. People that masturbate regularly or have gone through a rebooting phase and fallen off the wagon back to masturbating seem to report feeling lethargy, disinterest, and fatigue. Again this may be due to the prolactin. People that successfully reboot over a number of months have opposite effects. They feel powerful, engaged, energetic, and ready to tackle the world.
6. There is usually a massive spike in Testosterone after on or around the 7th day of abstinence

Also the general consensus there is that when one masturbates to porn your basically conditioning your mind to feel turned on and perform from what you're seeing on the screen. That way when it comes time to answer the bell with a real woman, your mind is not conditioned to deal with it so to speak. You've desensitized yourself to an authentic experience in favor of a virtual one. It's the same premise as a couple who continually has sex to the same song, their minds get conditioned to get turned on during that song regardless of when it's played.

As @Dopamine suggested, try a 90 day because at the very minimum that is what someone would need who masturbates even semi-regularly. Realistically though, if it's a daily thing, you're probably looking at 150-180 days at least.

 

[mt_dreams]

if your the type of person who only likes to have sex within a relationship, then the nofap might become an issue. there's probably 2 or 3 relationships I kept going b/c my body really liked the sex, and my masturbation skills were lacking. knowing you can satisfy this urge on your own in a somewhat complementary way might actually take this out of the equation when deciding who to be in a serious relationship with. I know a lot of people where sexual experience is high on their list of important qualities, and I'm curious to see what the situation will be 10+ years into the relationship. there's probably no need to be doing it for at least the first 5 years (maybe longer) that you're in a relationship, unless your partner does not have your sex drive. I wont be able to comment on 10+ year relationships until I get to that point.

 

[Dopamine]

I am on day 9 right now. Most notable effect is that women are much more attractive to me. All women. Women who I would have called 5/10 attractive before are now like 9/10. Also my morning libido seems to be increasing. I haven't watched porn for years so these effects are just abstinence from fapping for me.

 

[DaveFoster]

I think trying to quit porn is like trying to quit drinking; there's a reason for your drinking habit.

Naltrexone is a drug used to treat addiction; it might be helpful for masturbation addiction as well; it was in my case.

Don't blame yourself for wanting to jerk off; it's not your fault. You're just in a deficient, degenerate state, and masturbating is just a manifestation of that.

I am on day 9 right now. Most notable effect is that women are much more attractive to me. All women. Women who I would have called 5/10 attractive before are now like 9/10. Also my morning libido seems to be increasing. I haven't watched porn for years so these effects are just abstinence from fapping for me.

Soon, you'll be able to look at plungers and mailboxes with similar lust.