Homeopathic Peating (Progesterone, Aspirin, Thyroid, Caffeine etc) lower risk?

[RealNeat]

Homeopathy is very much a manmade idea, but so are pretty much all other things we engage with on a daily basis. One could argue its a more natural way to approach exogenous compounds as it "lets the body choose" instead of being forced to respond to a compound. Before trying this theory myself, I would like to know if anyone has experience with such substances, especially ones that Peat recommended, and its subsequent outcomes? Another option is the energetic imprint of these supplements, which can be impregnated into water like the IC Pad. I will be trying both and will use a homeopathic Testosterone supplement and report back. Ideally with labs.

 

[RealNeat]

Here is one such homeopathic T supplement. EndoPure Testos-Male (Testosterone Homeopathic) | Dr. Dale Wellness Store

 

[RealNeat]

There were some concerns with homeopathy and a correlation to infant deaths and injuries from a teething gel/tab, specifically from the famous company Hylands. A rebuttal to that claim is made here, Properly made homeopathics seem to be very safe, unless babies and animals are so sensitive to the energy of plants at an infinitesimal level that they are able to become poisoned at doses that are medically impossible to get poisoned by. Fact vs. Fiction in the Attack on Teething Tablets — Nourish Natural Medical Center

 

[Mazzle]

I have been thinking about Homeopathy recently.
There are three concepts in Homeopathy i feel are relevant.'Material dose v Energetic dose' 'Like cures like' and 'Proving a remedy'

1) 'Material dose v Energetic dose'. First we have to remind ourselves that there are no active ingredients in a remedy, it is a sugar pill infused with a massively diluted tincture. It is an energy signature, not a material dose.

2)'Like cures like' (Also known as the Law if Similars) Example. If you have a person who has a rapid onset of fever and is very red in the face or localised parts, very agitated. Then a remedy called Belladonna 30c would probably be a good choice at onset of symptoms. Not because Belladonna is the cure for these symptoms in a material dose, in fact the opposite is true. A material dose of Belladonna is a deadly nightshade and will cause these symptoms and much worse. However in an energetic homeopathic dose the symptoms are similar. A homeopath will give Belladonna 30c in the right situation when the symptom picture calls for it.

3) 'Proving a remedy' Generally speaking, homeopathy is not intended to be taken long term or continuously. Let's take that person above. They took Belladonna 30c at the onset of the fever, it was the perfect remedy choice, they immediately calmed, the fever and redness reduced and the crisis was over quite quickly. However, against the advice of the Homeopath they continued to take the remedy on a regular basis. They are no longer feeling unwell, but months later are back at the Homeopath because they have random redness and agitation. They have proved the remedy. They have caused the symptoms that the remedy was indicated for. This is in fact how Homeopathic remedy pictures are proved. Healthy volunteers take a Homeopathic dose and record the symptoms and disturbances they notice.

So. Firstly. Homeopathy is an incredible curative. Go find yourself a registered classical Homeopath who treats you holistically. Used correctly (Point 2) it is incredibly powerful.
Second - I am not a registered homeopath. I am not giving medical advice.

However.......I have recently been thinking that I would investigate the use of a remedy as a proving. That's as far as I have got with that thought.

 

[Dapose]

@RealNeat
“Homeopathic Peating (Progesterone, Aspirin, Thyroid, Caffeine etc) lower risk?”

Gosh, “lower risk.” I would go…
Progesterone to pregnenolone.
Aspirin to Geri Care Aspirin. Or white willow bark in gelatin capsule.
Thyroid to Just use T3 1-4mcg.
Caffeine- Just with milk and sugar.

These are all pretty darn safe from what I’ve seen on the forum and in my own usage.

I also really like what Mazzle wrote about the energetics vs the material. I think with the materials you are asking about you need the materials. They are needed in your tissues.
IMO

 

[xeliex]

Hey fella,

I've been looking into Infopathy for a while. My cousin and a friend are classic homeopaths and have mixed feelings about these methods, but they gave it a shy thumbs up. I also have experience with a classic doctor and homeopath that uses similar tech to help people - by Dr. Voll or some similar name I think. I've seen borderline miracles with on family members. But that system also uses some sort of acupressure testing - back to the point.

It bugs me that the IC remedies on Infopathy are mostly mainstream and mainstream-alternatives. There is a definite need of Peaty complexes there. I am glad we are discussing it now.

I also am a bit confused and conflicted regarding Jacques Benviste's and later on Luc Montagnier's studies. Vithoulkas, probably the world's most notable homeopath called BS on Beneviste's findings. There is a youtube video. He was saying that homeopathy does not cause symptoms like that. I also wonder how Infopathy claims that you cannot overdose... If something is having any biological / tangible effect, it ought to be strong enough to push one over the other edge.

Pardon my poor word choices, but I am confused and conflicted on what I think. You keep us posted please. I am close to getting some of their devices and experiment with them.

 

[EvanHinkle]

I think the IC pad is interesting as a concept but haven’t seen much in the way of first hand testimonials over a long time frame. I’m following this with great interest!

I’d also add that I would think in addition to the imprint it would be important to structure the liquid, (I assume) that whatever substance is being imprinted in. I have always had an unsubstantiated belief that many of our past “medicines” worked because they had higher energy output than our current environment allows them to have, (for example non native EMF, dirty electricity, demineralization of soil, pollution). Or it’s possible that if such “medicines” still work, the nearly constant onslaught of these various offenders work to maintain chaotic structure at our cellular level, (so we flip back and forth momentarily from structured cellular fluids back to chaotic).

 

[xeliex]

I have been thinking about Homeopathy recently.
There are three concepts in Homeopathy i feel are relevant.'Material dose v Energetic dose' 'Like cures like' and 'Proving a remedy'

1) 'Material dose v Energetic dose'. First we have to remind ourselves that there are no active ingredients in a remedy, it is a sugar pill infused with a massively diluted tincture. It is an energy signature, not a material dose.

2)'Like cures like' (Also known as the Law if Similars) Example. If you have a person who has a rapid onset of fever and is very red in the face or localised parts, very agitated. Then a remedy called Belladonna 30c would probably be a good choice at onset of symptoms. Not because Belladonna is the cure for these symptoms in a material dose, in fact the opposite is true. A material dose of Belladonna is a deadly nightshade and will cause these symptoms and much worse. However in an energetic homeopathic dose the symptoms are similar. A homeopath will give Belladonna 30c in the right situation when the symptom picture calls for it.

3) 'Proving a remedy' Generally speaking, homeopathy is not intended to be taken long term or continuously. Let's take that person above. They took Belladonna 30c at the onset of the fever, it was the perfect remedy choice, they immediately calmed, the fever and redness reduced and the crisis was over quite quickly. However, against the advice of the Homeopath they continued to take the remedy on a regular basis. They are no longer feeling unwell, but months later are back at the Homeopath because they have random redness and agitation. They have proved the remedy. They have caused the symptoms that the remedy was indicated for. This is in fact how Homeopathic remedy pictures are proved. Healthy volunteers take a Homeopathic dose and record the symptoms and disturbances they notice.

So. Firstly. Homeopathy is an incredible curative. Go find yourself a registered classical Homeopath who treats you holistically. Used correctly (Point 2) it is incredibly powerful.
Second - I am not a registered homeopath. I am not giving medical advice.

However.......I have recently been thinking that I would investigate the use of a remedy as a proving. That's as far as I have got with that thought.

Thank you for this - helps comprehend things a bit better.
My experience with classic homepaths has been lukewarm, perhaps due to the fact that they were family / close friends.
I saw one that was not a close person to me, but he was "Sulphur-type" smelled bad and didn't follow up with me properly enough. I learned form him, but ultimately didn't benefit my then symptoms very well.

 

[sphenoid]

I use infoceuticals via the infopathy IC Pad daily and they have made some drastic impacts, replacing the overwhelming majority of my physical supplement routine. The effects are subtle and most noticed when in a deficient or stressed state as the infoceuticals are perfect at adapting and returning to (an elevated) normal. The adaptogenic nature of the ICs make them good for administering hormones, vitamins, pharmaceuticals, nootropics, etc. that may have somewhat unpredictable effects depending on the individual and their metabolic state. I have many IC mixes that I use for myself and for people that I work with and would be glad to share some.

One of the most recent ones was a lady who experienced a tremendous psychological shift after incorporating mixes I made to reduce serotonin and repair dopamine receptors. She described a "veil of fear" being lifted from her mind and the return of her motivation, self-confidence, and happiness. This was astounding because it fit the effects of serotonin and dopamine perfectly and was not something I discussed with her prior. I have some other stories including helping my grandmother who was starting to decline mentally and healing a leg injury that my dog had been living with for some time. In both these instances there was no conscious alteration of reality (placebo) as both were unaware but still experienced significant changes.

Obviously this will never be a substitute for fundamental factors such as nutrition, light, a clean gut, etc. but it is incredibly useful to have a large selection of compounds/molecules at your fingertips that can be administered through water.

 

[S.Holmes]

I've been using homeopathy for 35 years after a skilled homeopath from South Africa cured my autoimmune disease. A WELL CHOSEN remedy is always my first line of defense.

If you have no training, you should seek out a trained and experienced homeopath, or read some really good books that explain it well, for acute illness only. (Chronic illness is more complex and requires skill.)

Homeopathy is both art AND science. It has healed afflictions in my family that amazed the doctors who admitted they could not compete, even with their enormous arsenal of allopathic meds.

The British Royalty have used homeopathy for generations and one of the few remaining homeopathic hospitals is located in the UK. Actress Jane Seymour's sister is a homeopath and Jane says she herself will travel nowhere without her bottle of Arnica pills.

I finished my own training with the Victorian College of Classical Homeopathy 10 years ago. I don't take new clients but am happy to answer questions.

 

[S.Holmes]

I've been using homeopathy for 35 years after a skilled homeopath from South Africa cured my autoimmune disease. A WELL CHOSEN remedy is always my first line of defense.

If you have no training, you should seek out a trained and experienced homeopath, or read some really good books that explain it well, for acute illness only. (Chronic illness is more complex and requires skill.)

Homeopathy is both art AND science. It has healed afflictions in my family that amazed the doctors who admitted they could not compete, even with their enormous arsenal of allopathic meds.

The British Royalty have used homeopathy for generations and one of the few remaining homeopathic hospitals is located in the UK. Actress Jane Seymour's sister is a homeopath and Jane says she herself will travel nowhere without her bottle of Arnica pills.

I finished my own training with the Victorian College of Classical Homeopathy 10 years ago. I don't take clients but am happy to answer questions.

This is my page and testimonial. Susan Holmes | The Victorian College of Classical Homeopathy

 

[Mazzle]

Thank you for this - helps comprehend things a bit better.
My experience with classic homepaths has been lukewarm, perhaps due to the fact that they were family / close friends.
I saw one that was not a close person to me, but he was "Sulphur-type" smelled bad and didn't follow up with me properly enough. I learned form him, but ultimately didn't benefit my then symptoms very well.

I use infoceuticals via the infopathy IC Pad daily and they have made some drastic impacts, replacing the overwhelming majority of my physical supplement routine. The effects are subtle and most noticed when in a deficient or stressed state as the infoceuticals are perfect at adapting and returning to (an elevated) normal. The adaptogenic nature of the ICs make them good for administering hormones, vitamins, pharmaceuticals, nootropics, etc. that may have somewhat unpredictable effects depending on the individual and their metabolic state. I have many IC mixes that I use for myself and for people that I work with and would be glad to share some.

One of the most recent ones was a lady who experienced a tremendous psychological shift after incorporating mixes I made to reduce serotonin and repair dopamine receptors. She described a "veil of fear" being lifted from her mind and the return of her motivation, self-confidence, and happiness. This was astounding because it fit the effects of serotonin and dopamine perfectly and was not something I discussed with her prior. I have some other stories including helping my grandmother who was starting to decline mentally and healing a leg injury that my dog had been living with for some time. In both these instances there was no conscious alteration of reality (placebo) as both were unaware but still experienced significant changes.

Obviously this will never be a substitute for fundamental factors such as nutrition, light, a clean gut, etc. but it is incredibly useful to have a large selection of compounds/molecules at your fingertips that can be administered through water.

@sphenoid Ohhhh you have started something now. This sounds very good indeed. Essentially we are all vibration and I think that is all Homeopathy is. This is really interesting information. I am off to have a good look around. @xeliex Read post above about Infoceuticals.

 

[sphenoid]

@sphenoid Ohhhh you have started something now. This sounds very good indeed. Essentially we are all vibration and I think that is all Homeopathy is. This is really interesting information. I am off to have a good look around. @xeliex Read post above about Infoceuticals.

Yes, infoceuticals are phenomenal and I have yet to have anything but an incredibly positive experience with them. Another benefit is that since there is no physical molecule to metabolize there are no potentially harmful byproducts or side effects. Additionally, you do not have to worry about contaminants as you would with physical supplements. Glad to answer any questions.

I recently sent in a few IdeaLabs products to be digitized and uploaded to the Infopathy database and have been using them. Hopefully, if more attention is shined on the topic, people from this forum can send in some samples of the numerous compounds discussed here. The current database is fairly expansive but is still growing.

 

[Mazzle]

Yes, infoceuticals are phenomenal and I have yet to have anything but an incredibly positive experience with them. Another benefit is that since there is no physical molecule to metabolize there are no potentially harmful byproducts or side effects. Additionally, you do not have to worry about contaminants as you would with physical supplements. Glad to answer any questions.

I recently sent in a few IdeaLabs products to be digitized and uploaded to the Infopathy database and have been using them. Hopefully, if more attention is shined on the topic, people from this forum can send in some samples of the numerous compounds discussed here. The current database is fairly expansive but is still growing.

I have been looking into the homeopathy machines which do the same but are ££££££ Have just ordered the IC Pad and am listening to one of the free audio IC's to try and shift this cough Ive had for over a month now. This is great and exactly the direction I wanted to go in. Thank you! Xmas is totally sorted now.

 

[Normal Human]

As someone who has studied both Ray Peat's work and classical homeopathy for many years, I am always happy to see homeopathy discussed on the RPF.

I have a lot I could say about homeopathy and how it relates to Ray Peat's work. Ultimately, homeopathy is a deep, highly-complex (both historically and technically) healing modality which is both incredibly effective (when properly applied) and generally quite misunderstood.

The single biggest factor that makes a medicine or supplement "homeopathic" is not whether or not it is in "homeopathic potency" (i.e., 6C, 12C, 6X, 12X, 30C, etc.) or whether it is labeled as "homeopathic" by the company.

Something is "homeopathic" when the symptoms it causes in healthy people is very similar to the symptoms a person is experiencing in their disease-state. It is not the specific disease diagnosis that is used to make the homeopathic prescription, but a person's unique symptoms of that disease. For example, 10 people with the exact same disease-diagnosis (say, rheumatoid arthritis, multiple sclerosis, chronic fatigue syndrome, depression) will likely need 10 different homeopathic remedies, because even though they share some similarities in their symptoms, ultimately each of those 10 people will experience that disease in a slightly different way, and it is these differences which determine which homeopathic remedy is given to each person.

This is constantly confused by people for a few reasons - 1) anyone can practice a form of medicine and call it "homeopathy" even though they are not actually practicing according to the philosophy and procedure of classical homeopathy, 2) any company can put medicines or substances in a supplement, make them into "homeopathic potencies", and call it a "homeopathic remedy" even though that supplement does not adhere to any of the dictates of classical homeopathy other than using similar substances or diluting them.

This would be very similar to doctors saying they are practicing "bioenergetic nutrition" or "Ray Peat-inspired medicine" but all the while recommending intermittent fasting and fish oil for everyone. This type of thing is already prevalent enough in the modern world, but since homeopathy has been around for 230 years, these types of confusions and misunderstandings have compounded to an enormous extent.

For your specific question @RealNeat the "homeopathic supplement" you linked is not technically a "homeopathic" supplement, but rather it's just using very low doses of testosterone, cortisol, pumpkin seed (sabul serruta) and some other compounds. If it was actually used properly in a homeopathic fashion, it would be given to people who have symptoms of too much testosterone, not too little. Moreover, the potencies used in this supplement are quite low (6C, 12C, 6X, 6X) which means it actually still contains trace amounts of all the substances (except Thuja). So, while it may actually work to make you feel better or improve labs (I have no idea), if it did, it would be more from a perspective of some sort of nutrient-replacement or supplementation rather than from a homeopathic stimulus. I have seen some companies use this approach with substances such as testosterone and DHEA so that they can get around labeling laws but still deliver a "crude dose" (albeit a small one) of the substance.

With that being said, one thing homeopathy has shown us is that the body can respond remarkably well to very low doses of substances at long intervals (as opposed to large doses given daily that conventional medicine and most forms of alternative medicine recommend) (this was also a tenet of William Koch's work on cancer). In my personal experience, I have found this type of approach to using pregnenolone has worked well for me: I would give myself a small dose (6MG of StressNon) and would feel immediately better. I would wait until I stopped feeling better (usually would last several days) and then administer another dose. Each time I administered the dose I was able to go longer and longer between doses, and eventually I didn't feel the need for it at all anymore. Such an approach is not really a "homeopathic" use of pregnenolone, it was more of just listening to my body.

I do think that approach can also work well with all other Peat substances. As I said, I would not consider such a thing as "homeopathic", but is rather just an expression of supporting the needs of the organism in a personalized, individualized way ("Perceive...Act").

Happy to answer any more questions about this if any of it was unclear.

 

[Nfinkelstein]

Homeopathy is very much a manmade idea, but so are pretty much all other things we engage with on a daily basis. One could argue its a more natural way to approach exogenous compounds as it "lets the body choose" instead of being forced to respond to a compound. Before trying this theory myself, I would like to know if anyone has experience with such substances, especially ones that Peat recommended, and its subsequent outcomes? Another option is the energetic imprint of these supplements, which can be impregnated into water like the IC Pad. I will be trying both and will use a homeopathic Testosterone supplement and report back. Ideally with labs.

You've started a good thread.

If you start using homeopathy and you stick with it, there will come a point where you observe a miraculous "impossible cure" and at that point you will become a believer. It is this way with most people I know who use homeopathy. I could give you many personal experiences like this, too many to count.

The reason why so few people use homeopathy is that A) they don't understand how it could possibly be real, B) there are very few good practitioners out there, C) it takes a bit of work to unlock the vault (but it is so worth it, many seemingly hopeless cases will respond to homeopathy)

Some good homeopaths are doing online virtual consults now, so you could do that. Asa Hershoff is one of them --- and incidentally he understands infoceuticals too.

Your best course of action is to buy a good materia medica and a repertory --- I use Robin Murphy, his are probably the best. From that, deduce your remedies --- they are cheap and if you get it wrong then move to the next one, and in acute situations you can run through multiple remedies in an hour to find one that works for your situation. You need to become your own prescriber to get the most out of homeopathy.

 

[xeliex]

As someone who has studied both Ray Peat's work and classical homeopathy for many years, I am always happy to see homeopathy discussed on the RPF.

I have a lot I could say about homeopathy and how it relates to Ray Peat's work. Ultimately, homeopathy is a deep, highly-complex (both historically and technically) healing modality which is both incredibly effective (when properly applied) and generally quite misunderstood.

The single biggest factor that makes a medicine or supplement "homeopathic" is not whether or not it is in "homeopathic potency" (i.e., 6C, 12C, 6X, 12X, 30C, etc.) or whether it is labeled as "homeopathic" by the company.

Something is "homeopathic" when the symptoms it causes in healthy people is very similar to the symptoms a person is experiencing in their disease-state. It is not the specific disease diagnosis that is used to make the homeopathic prescription, but a person's unique symptoms of that disease. For example, 10 people with the exact same disease-diagnosis (say, rheumatoid arthritis, multiple sclerosis, chronic fatigue syndrome, depression) will likely need 10 different homeopathic remedies, because even though they share some similarities in their symptoms, ultimately each of those 10 people will experience that disease in a slightly different way, and it is these differences which determine which homeopathic remedy is given to each person.

This is constantly confused by people for a few reasons - 1) anyone can practice a form of medicine and call it "homeopathy" even though they are not actually practicing according to the philosophy and procedure of classical homeopathy, 2) any company can put medicines or substances in a supplement, make them into "homeopathic potencies", and call it a "homeopathic remedy" even though that supplement does not adhere to any of the dictates of classical homeopathy other than using similar substances or diluting them.

This would be very similar to doctors saying they are practicing "bioenergetic nutrition" or "Ray Peat-inspired medicine" but all the while recommending intermittent fasting and fish oil for everyone. This type of thing is already prevalent enough in the modern world, but since homeopathy has been around for 230 years, these types of confusions and misunderstandings have compounded to an enormous extent.

For your specific question @RealNeat the "homeopathic supplement" you linked is not technically a "homeopathic" supplement, but rather it's just using very low doses of testosterone, cortisol, pumpkin seed (sabul serruta) and some other compounds. If it was actually used properly in a homeopathic fashion, it would be given to people who have symptoms of too much testosterone, not too little. Moreover, the potencies used in this supplement are quite low (6C, 12C, 6X, 6X) which means it actually still contains trace amounts of all the substances (except Thuja). So, while it may actually work to make you feel better or improve labs (I have no idea), if it did, it would be more from a perspective of some sort of nutrient-replacement or supplementation rather than from a homeopathic stimulus. I have seen some companies use this approach with substances such as testosterone and DHEA so that they can get around labeling laws but still deliver a "crude dose" (albeit a small one) of the substance.

With that being said, one thing homeopathy has shown us is that the body can respond remarkably well to very low doses of substances at long intervals (as opposed to large doses given daily that conventional medicine and most forms of alternative medicine recommend) (this was also a tenet of William Koch's work on cancer). In my personal experience, I have found this type of approach to using pregnenolone has worked well for me: I would give myself a small dose (6MG of StressNon) and would feel immediately better. I would wait until I stopped feeling better (usually would last several days) and then administer another dose. Each time I administered the dose I was able to go longer and longer between doses, and eventually I didn't feel the need for it at all anymore. Such an approach is not really a "homeopathic" use of pregnenolone, it was more of just listening to my body.

I do think that approach can also work well with all other Peat substances. As I said, I would not consider such a thing as "homeopathic", but is rather just an expression of supporting the needs of the organism in a personalized, individualized way ("Perceive...Act").

Happy to answer any more questions about this if any of it was unclear.

Thank you for this great information. I have several versions of materia medica and have an a la cart kit at home that I use to treat various symptoms.

Vithoulkas criticized Jacques Beneviste as incompetent or a scam. Infopathy for instance base their explanations on how they work on Beneviste and Luc Montagner. It seems that what these two therapies share in common is just the memory / stored energy in substances.

If I am understanding correctly, homeopathy simply treats symptoms to restore a biological system to its optimal potential. Infoceuticals seems to claim that it can alter the body's energies in ways that could go beyond simple restoration of health.

The only thing that I contrast this with in homeopathy is "proving" the remedy.

I really am conflicted and confused on whether or not Infoceuticals are a good idea now.

I visited a practitioner In Lebanon one time. She is an MD, a homeopath (not classical), and uses Dr. Voll Infoceuticals in her therapy. After struggling for months in the USA with GI issues and fighting with doctors that want to put me on SSRIs, she told me when she saw me that I need deworming. She tested me and the machine confirmed. She infused pellets with all kinda parasites and stuff and boom, I got better in days.

Please keep this going so we understand better how to harmonize with these therapies.

 

[Normal Human]

Thank you for this great information. I have several versions of materia medica and have an a la cart kit at home that I use to treat various symptoms.

Vithoulkas criticized Jacques Beneviste as incompetent or a scam. Infopathy for instance base their explanations on how they work on Beneviste and Luc Montagner. It seems that what these two therapies share in common is just the memory / stored energy in substances.

If I am understanding correctly, homeopathy simply treats symptoms to restore a biological system to its optimal potential. Infoceuticals seems to claim that it can alter the body's energies in ways that could go beyond simple restoration of health.

The only thing that I contrast this with in homeopathy is "proving" the remedy.

I really am conflicted and confused on whether or not Infoceuticals are a good idea now.

I visited a practitioner In Lebanon one time. She is an MD, a homeopath (not classical), and uses Dr. Voll Infoceuticals in her therapy. After struggling for months in the USA with GI issues and fighting with doctors that want to put me on SSRIs, she told me when she saw me that I need deworming. She tested me and the machine confirmed. She infused pellets with all kinda parasites and stuff and boom, I got better in days.

Please keep this going so we understand better how to harmonize with these therapies.

I am not familiar with Vithoulkas' specific argument against Beneviste's work (if you have a link I would look at it). In general, I find the "water memory" theory of how homeopathic remedies work to be...fine, but I'm not convinced it's the full story. For example, homeopathic remedies can be administered via olfaction (basically, sniffing the remedy), and I don't see how the "water memory" theory explains that. However, I also do not think the water memory theory hinges solely on the work of Beneviste, because any homeopathic remedy diluted beyond around 15C is already past Avogadro's Number (so, theoretically there shouldn't be anymore "active substance" of the original solution left). However, there are many experiments with homeopathic potencies diluted past Avogadro's Number that show they still have biological effects (see How do we know homeopathic medicines are not “just sugar pills”?)

The lack of consensus of a "mechanism of action" of homeopathic remedies has been a stumbling block for skeptics literally since homeopathy's inception in the late 1700s. Various models have been proposed over the years, "water memory" is just one of the more recent ones. (for an alternative explanation by a more modern scientist in the field, see Understanding the Biological Basis of Homeopathic Remedy Response, also the book The Emerging Science of Homeopathy: Complexity, Biodynamics, and Nanopharmacology, despite having worse reviews than it deserves, is another great resource on this topic).

In my experience and opinion "infoceuticals" or "infopathy" are nowhere near as effective as homeopathy. From a historical, philosophical, and practical perspective, they are not the same thing (this includes Dr. Voll's approach), yet they are often confused as being equivalent due to misunderstanding among doctors and lay people, as well as marketing techniques by companies.

There are many differences between these two approaches, but probably the most important difference between them is the rationale for giving a specific medicine/remedy. The core philosophical underpinning of homeopathy is that we do not give medicines based on "theories" of underlying disease-processes (because the theories underlying disease processes are always half-truths at best, totally false at worst, change over the decades and centuries based on passing trends in research, and are generally unreliable), we don't give the remedy based on the name of the "disease-diagnosis" (because different people with the same "disease diagnosis" may present with very different symptoms, different triggers to their illness, different exciting causes to the illness, etc.), we don't give remedies with no proof of what they actually are capable of healing (as determined by carrying out "provings", i.e., actually testing the substances on healthy subjects and/or using toxicology reports from poisonings or accidental overdoses).

In the end, the only thing that determines which homeopathic remedy is used, the only thing that actually makes any use of medicine "homeopathic" or not, is not whether the substance is diluted or not (there are many examples of substances given in crude doses that is effective, but actually is a homeopathic usage of the substance - such as Cinchona bark for malaria, Mercury for syphilis, Digitalis for cardiac failure, etc. etc.). The only thing that determines whether or not it is homeopathic is if the substance given matches the unique presenting symptoms of the patient. (again, there are more complicated reasons for why exactly this is relevant that I can get into if you're interested).

With that said, it should be pretty clear that infopathy/infoceuticals do not meet that criteria at all, and so at best could be considered a type of "nutritional replacement" and at worst just another form of allopathic poly-pharmacy (which is the reality for many practitioners I see who use this approach). This of course does not mean that no one benefits from them at times, or that there have not been some great benefits people have experienced from them. However, in my opinion/experience, it is not any kind of comprehensive healing system with the same clinical effectiveness or philosophical grounding present in classical homeopathy, and in many ways, it still resembles reductionist and allo-pathic thinking, just using "frequencies" instead of "drugs".

 

[xeliex]

I am not familiar with Vithoulkas' specific argument against Beneviste's work (if you have a link I would look at it). In general, I find the "water memory" theory of how homeopathic remedies work to be...fine, but I'm not convinced it's the full story. For example, homeopathic remedies can be administered via olfaction (basically, sniffing the remedy), and I don't see how the "water memory" theory explains that. However, I also do not think the water memory theory hinges solely on the work of Beneviste, because any homeopathic remedy diluted beyond around 15C is already past Avogadro's Number (so, theoretically there shouldn't be anymore "active substance" of the original solution left). However, there are many experiments with homeopathic potencies diluted past Avogadro's Number that show they still have biological effects (see How do we know homeopathic medicines are not “just sugar pills”?)

The lack of consensus of a "mechanism of action" of homeopathic remedies has been a stumbling block for skeptics literally since homeopathy's inception in the late 1700s. Various models have been proposed over the years, "water memory" is just one of the more recent ones. (for an alternative explanation by a more modern scientist in the field, see Understanding the Biological Basis of Homeopathic Remedy Response, also the book The Emerging Science of Homeopathy: Complexity, Biodynamics, and Nanopharmacology, despite having worse reviews than it deserves, is another great resource on this topic).

In my experience and opinion "infoceuticals" or "infopathy" are nowhere near as effective as homeopathy. From a historical, philosophical, and practical perspective, they are not the same thing (this includes Dr. Voll's approach), yet they are often confused as being equivalent due to misunderstanding among doctors and lay people, as well as marketing techniques by companies.

There are many differences between these two approaches, but probably the most important difference between them is the rationale for giving a specific medicine/remedy. The core philosophical underpinning of homeopathy is that we do not give medicines based on "theories" of underlying disease-processes (because the theories underlying disease processes are always half-truths at best, totally false at worst, change over the decades and centuries based on passing trends in research, and are generally unreliable), we don't give the remedy based on the name of the "disease-diagnosis" (because different people with the same "disease diagnosis" may present with very different symptoms, different triggers to their illness, different exciting causes to the illness, etc.), we don't give remedies with no proof of what they actually are capable of healing (as determined by carrying out "provings", i.e., actually testing the substances on healthy subjects and/or using toxicology reports from poisonings or accidental overdoses).

In the end, the only thing that determines which homeopathic remedy is used, the only thing that actually makes any use of medicine "homeopathic" or not, is not whether the substance is diluted or not (there are many examples of substances given in crude doses that is effective, but actually is a homeopathic usage of the substance - such as Cinchona bark for malaria, Mercury for syphilis, Digitalis for cardiac failure, etc. etc.). The only thing that determines whether or not it is homeopathic is if the substance given matches the unique presenting symptoms of the patient. (again, there are more complicated reasons for why exactly this is relevant that I can get into if you're interested).

With that said, it should be pretty clear that infopathy/infoceuticals do not meet that criteria at all, and so at best could be considered a type of "nutritional replacement" and at worst just another form of allopathic poly-pharmacy (which is the reality for many practitioners I see who use this approach). This of course does not mean that no one benefits from them at times, or that there have not been some great benefits people have experienced from them. However, in my opinion/experience, it is not any kind of comprehensive healing system with the same clinical effectiveness or philosophical grounding present in classical homeopathy, and in many ways, it still resembles reductionist and allo-pathic thinking, just using "frequencies" instead of "drugs".

Thank you for another helpful post.
Here is Vithoulkas...


View: https://youtu.be/lzcpOa4rl78?si=hEpC4ZqAF0XRXzzW


There is still plenty for me to learn about homeopathy. I've seen it work like magic sometimes, for me and for others. Arnica alone is pseudo miraculous in some situations.

I am unsure about Infopathy... Despite them having a host of ICs that can work in an allopathic fashion, there is a claim that energy can substitute substance. For example, instead of taking vitamin C, you take a vitamin C IC, etc... I am open to study it more but I remain cautious for now. The Russian Infopathy guy seems so kind, passionate and caring and that's what keeps me interested in them...

Jodelle had mentioned that she got rid of her supplements almost entirely, using Infopathy instead! I wish she'd do a follow-up.

 

[RealNeat]

Treat the symptoms not the cause?

We often hear the opposite in the natural health realm, "treat the cause! Don't chase symptoms!" What's curious is that in TCM and Ayurveda, two of many ancient lifestyle and health practices, the root cause isn't necessarily discussed. What's addressed are doshas or temperaments or humors and...

raypeatforum.com

Another thread i had made about this topic along the same vein. Great info so far everyone, still reading and digesting.