Declining Health Of The Young With Georgi Dinkov (Butter Living Podcast)

[Inaut]

Published on Jan 16, 2020
Enjoy listening to independent health researcher Georgi Dinkov (http://haidut.me/), as he explores the declining health of young people. He speaks to striking evidence of this tragic reality, while diving into possible explanations, and ultimately illuminating some tangible options for rejuvenated living and a stronger, healthier population of young and old alike (and why it even matters)

 

[opethfeldt]

I know far too many people who are obviously sick and just listen to their doctor blindly. You'd think after years and years of listening to doctor advice and taking all the prescription meds they recommend to them with no improvement or continued decline, they'd smarten up and start to learn things for themselves. Unfortunately, poor health tends to go hand in hand with an authoritarian mindset. They want a "guru" to help them. I guess they simply don't possess the metabolic energy to do their own research. It's sad. I think, in the end, the only people who are going to be healthy and flourish are those who question the mainstream ideas. I guess my long time love for shunning all things mainstream actually benefitted me in this situation.

 

[lampofred]

I know far too many people who are obviously sick and just listen to their doctor blindly. You'd think after years and years of listening to doctor advice and taking all the prescription meds they recommend to them with no improvement or continued decline, they'd smarten up and start to learn things for themselves. Unfortunately, poor health tends to go hand in hand with an authoritarian mindset. They want a "guru" to help them. I guess they simply don't possess the metabolic energy to do their own research. It's sad. I think, in the end, the only people who are going to be healthy and flourish are those who question the mainstream ideas. I guess my long time love for shunning all things mainstream actually benefitted me in this situation.

It's not our choice to either smarten up or be authoritarian. Like you mentioned, the same thing that causes poor health (lack of metabolic energy) is the same thing that makes you unable to question what you're told and to not be able to perceive reality, that you're not improving and continuing to decline. Even if people do start to do their own research, with poor metabolic energy they will come to all the wrong conclusions because of sluggish reasoning.

An external source of knowledge who is at a higher level of metabolic energy than you (like Ray Peat in my case) is actually the only thing that can break you out of that vicious loop. Doesn't necessarily have be a "guru" in some authoritarian sense. Either that or drugs like E which will cause a shift in perception.

 

[opethfeldt]

It's not our choice to either smarten up or be authoritarian. Like you mentioned, the same thing that causes poor health (lack of metabolic energy) is the same thing that makes you unable to question what you're told and to not be able to perceive reality, that you're not improving and continuing to decline. Even if people do start to do their own research, with poor metabolic energy they will come to all the wrong conclusions because of sluggish reasoning.

An external source of knowledge who is at a higher level of metabolic energy than you (like Ray Peat in my case) is actually the only thing that can break you out of that vicious loop. Doesn't necessarily have be a "guru" in some authoritarian sense. Either that or drugs like E which will cause a shift in perception.

Even if they did do research, unless it's endorsed by the masses, they have no interest in it anyway. I could point them directly to the answers and it would make no difference. They'd say I was full of it. I hate to adopt this idea that some people are "superior" to others but in this case, I suppose it is Darwinism at work.

 

[baccheion]

Is this really a thing?

Vitamin E is the most common deficiency among teenagers. Then vitamin D and magnesium.

Many don't meet all RDA requirements with just food.

Vitamin D (getting serum 25(OH)D into the 40s ng/mL), I bet, is the loud problem. Beyond that, not eating predominantly quality-sourced whole food. Maybe sleep quality (and duration) is also lacking.

 

[lampofred]

Is this really a thing?

Vitamin E is the most common deficiency among teenagers. Then vitamin D and magnesium.

Many don't meet all RDA requirements with just food.

Vitamin D (getting serum 25(OH)D into the 40s ng/mL), I bet, is the loud problem. Beyond that, not eating predominantly quality-sourced whole food. Maybe sleep quality (and duration) is also lacking.

I don't know if just supplementing would work. Vitamin A and Vitamin D are closely related to iron intake. Vitamin E and magnesium are closely related to PUFA intake. Supplementing vitamin D will strongly increase serotonin if you are not getting enough calcium relative to phosphate (and I bet very few people aside from Ray Peat followers get the majority of their protein from milk and cheese) and will induce a vitamin A deficiency because it antagonizes vitamin A. Low vitamin A according to RP will greatly increase protein requirements but just supplementing it won't work because supplementation will release iron from tissues and cause widespread oxidative damage. Vitamin A deficiency-induced protein deficiency will increase hypothyroidism. As hypothyroidism gets worse magnesium supplementation won't really do much because you won't be able to retain the magnesium you're consuming without enough CO2. And vitamin E supplementation is not as close to effective as actually not eating PUFA.

Our metabolic issues stem from iron fortification in starches and the unnatural consumption of PUFA instead of saturated fat and just supplementing things without changing iron/PUFA won't really fix anything, will just cause you to go in circles. Glyphosate replacing glycine and other pesticides are a third major factor, having good glycine stores probably spares vitamin D, vitamin A, and magnesium. Our food supply is just fundamentally screwed up, it has to be addressed at the core, with our government changing fortification rules and dietary guidelines.

 

[baccheion]

I don't know if just supplementing would work. Vitamin A and Vitamin D are closely related to iron intake. Vitamin E and magnesium are closely related to PUFA intake. Supplementing vitamin D will strongly increase serotonin if you are not getting enough calcium relative to phosphate (and I bet very few people aside from Ray Peat followers get the majority of their protein from milk and cheese) and will induce a vitamin A deficiency because it antagonizes vitamin A. Low vitamin A according to RP will greatly increase protein requirements but just supplementing it won't work because supplementation will release iron from tissues and cause widespread oxidative damage. Vitamin A deficiency-induced protein deficiency will increase hypothyroidism. As hypothyroidism gets worse magnesium supplementation won't really do much because you won't be able to retain the magnesium you're consuming without enough CO2. And vitamin E supplementation is not as close to effective as actually not eating PUFA.

Our metabolic issues stem from iron fortification in starches and the unnatural consumption of PUFA instead of saturated fat and just supplementing things without changing iron/PUFA won't really fix anything, will just cause you to go in circles. Glyphosate replacing glycine and other pesticides are a third major factor, having good glycine stores probably spares vitamin D, vitamin A, and magnesium. Our food supply is just fundamentally screwed up, it has to be addressed at the core, with our government changing fortification rules and dietary guidelines.

Vitamin D in the 40s has that strong an effect? I'm assuming most get enough calcium.

How does low vitamin A increase protein requirements? How does it lead to iron release? How does low protein cause hypothyroid symptoms?

Where is glycine stored? How does it spare them? By not leading the body to try to synthesize its own glycine?

 

[Grapelander]

I don't know if just supplementing would work. Vitamin A and Vitamin D are closely related to iron intake. Vitamin E and magnesium are closely related to PUFA intake. Supplementing vitamin D will strongly increase serotonin if you are not getting enough calcium relative to phosphate (and I bet very few people aside from Ray Peat followers get the majority of their protein from milk and cheese) and will induce a vitamin A deficiency because it antagonizes vitamin A. Low vitamin A according to RP will greatly increase protein requirements but just supplementing it won't work because supplementation will release iron from tissues and cause widespread oxidative damage. Vitamin A deficiency-induced protein deficiency will increase hypothyroidism. As hypothyroidism gets worse magnesium supplementation won't really do much because you won't be able to retain the magnesium you're consuming without enough CO2. And vitamin E supplementation is not as close to effective as actually not eating PUFA.

Our metabolic issues stem from iron fortification in starches and the unnatural consumption of PUFA instead of saturated fat and just supplementing things without changing iron/PUFA won't really fix anything, will just cause you to go in circles. Glyphosate replacing glycine and other pesticides are a third major factor, having good glycine stores probably spares vitamin D, vitamin A, and magnesium. Our food supply is just fundamentally screwed up, it has to be addressed at the core, with our government changing fortification rules and dietary guidelines.

Thanks for your good analysis. Food supply is getting worse & worse; surprised we humans are still going - but like Ray notes - we have an intense metabolism with our brain.
Still - I expect major decline in population in the next two generations. 30% decline in sperm in our young, I remember when I was young kids were making out all over the place. CDC reported that birth rates for U.S. teens 15-19 years old dropped to a record low not seen since 1946.

 

[pepsi]

I wonder what Haidut feeds his kids.

I finally fixed my bloat problem by switching to parmigiano reggiano cheese instead of milk. I still drink lots of OJ with the cheese.
I even tried milk but dropping the OJ but still bloat, so it wasnt because of excess fluids. Im thinking they add ingredients we are not aware of
to the milk such as gums.

Feel bad for kids and young adults who are being subjected to these ingredients their entire lives, it was probably even in their baby formula.
I grew up in the 80's, very rare to see an obese kid, buy there usually was just one. All of us would scrounge for change and put it together to buy soda and candy
after school everyday. I miss the 80's.

 

[baccheion]

I wonder what Haidut feeds his kids.

I finally fixed my bloat problem by switching to parmigiano reggiano cheese instead of milk. I still drink lots of OJ with the cheese.
I even tried milk but dropping the OJ but still bloat, so it wasnt because of excess fluids. Im thinking they add ingredients we are not aware of
to the milk such as gums.

Feel bad for kids and young adults who are being subjected to these ingredients their entire lives, it was probably even in their baby formula.
I grew up in the 80's, very rare to see an obese kid, buy there usually was just one. All of us would scrounge for change and put it together to buy soda and candy
after school everyday. I miss the 80's.

Does the OJ affect your teeth?

 

[LuMonty]

I wonder what Haidut feeds his kids.

I finally fixed my bloat problem by switching to parmigiano reggiano cheese instead of milk. I still drink lots of OJ with the cheese.
I even tried milk but dropping the OJ but still bloat, so it wasnt because of excess fluids. Im thinking they add ingredients we are not aware of
to the milk such as gums.

Feel bad for kids and young adults who are being subjected to these ingredients their entire lives, it was probably even in their baby formula.
I grew up in the 80's, very rare to see an obese kid, buy there usually was just one. All of us would scrounge for change and put it together to buy soda and candy
after school everyday. I miss the 80's.

In a previous interview with Danny Roddy, Haidut said his kids love milk. And iirc sweetening it too. It was adorable to listen to but I can't remember the particular video. As far as milk, yes there are gums and crap added but it doesn't have to be listed if it's under a certain amount. I tried every kind of milk I could find where I live and was lucky that the last and cheapest was good.

 

[milkboi]

In a previous interview with Danny Roddy, Haidut said his kids love milk. And iirc sweetening it too. It was adorable to listen to but I can't remember the particular video. As far as milk, yes there are gums and crap added but it doesn't have to be listed if it's under a certain amount. I tried every kind of milk I could find where I live and was lucky that the last and cheapest was good.

Yup, and I think he also added egg yolk (powder?), which they also loved.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

Something I see in my country and it's undisputable. Younger generation (both guys and girls), born between 1995 and 2000 are significantly taller than those born between 1990 - 1995.

 

[milkboi]

Something I see in my country and it's undisputable. Younger generation (both guys and girls), born between 1995 and 2000 are significantly taller than those born between 1990 - 1995.

not sure if height is an accurate measure of health

 

[GreekDemiGod]

not sure if height is an accurate measure of health

They also generally have much harmonious facial development (forward growth of the maxilla).

 

[sunraiser]

I don't know if just supplementing would work. Vitamin A and Vitamin D are closely related to iron intake. Vitamin E and magnesium are closely related to PUFA intake. Supplementing vitamin D will strongly increase serotonin if you are not getting enough calcium relative to phosphate (and I bet very few people aside from Ray Peat followers get the majority of their protein from milk and cheese) and will induce a vitamin A deficiency because it antagonizes vitamin A

A little bit related to this for me is that dairy simply doesn't work as a decent calcium source when in poor metabolic health.

I think perhaps the phosphorus content is more easily broken down and absorbed than calcium. I have changed my mind so often on fat solubles but I'm moving more and more towards vitamin D being something that should not be supplemented; I think it's more reflective of calcium / general mineral status and overall metabolic health (inc liver strength). I think the sun increases vitamin D by being used as an energy source that boosts metabolism without taxing the liver.

A calcium source that includes very little phosphate has been imperative to me recovering health, and in my case I use fortified white bread so I can eat to craving. I've found an amazing tasting sourdough that's white wheat flour mixed with wholegrain spelt!

I still crave milk but it's a very separate craving.

It's a little frustrating as I'd seen a few posters here say "I didn't start recovering until I included bread again" and for the longest time I was eating unfortified French bread without any luck.

 

[sunraiser]

Something I see in my country and it's undisputable. Younger generation (both guys and girls), born between 1995 and 2000 are significantly taller than those born between 1990 - 1995.

Not specific dates, but I've also noticed the kids in my country are generally taller these days.

 

[baccheion]

Something I see in my country and it's undisputable. Younger generation (both guys and girls), born between 1995 and 2000 are significantly taller than those born between 1990 - 1995.

What country? How did the diet change in that time? More protein? Lower stress? Do they have thinner wrists?

 

[Gone Peating]

Something I see in my country and it's undisputable. Younger generation (both guys and girls), born between 1995 and 2000 are significantly taller than those born between 1990 - 1995.

Are you in Greece? It’s probably just due to eating more overall.

Pufas not as rampant there as it is in western europe right? Isn’t olive oil the fat of choice

 

[Homo Consumericus]

Something I see in my country and it's undisputable. Younger generation (both guys and girls), born between 1995 and 2000 are significantly taller than those born between 1990 - 1995.

These age brackets are too close together for you too have statistics to back this up but it's also just unlikely on its face for there to be noticeable differences between demographics in such close proximity. If you say zoomers are taller than millennials, this would be possible due to improvements in nutrition and healthcare.

However, in my country I've noticed the opposite in cities. High school students around here are dwarves and university students are not much different. Despite relatively cheap nutrient dense food availability, they think a meatless cheeseless wheat bun and a non-brand energy drink (no taurine or ginseng, less B vitamins) is breakfast and later on again lunch. The ones who're willing to spend a bit more get a 200 gram box of cold egg salad to make it more substantial. This "egg salad" is 80% mayonnaise which is 80% rapeseed and sunflower seed oil. The high school students of both genders have matchstick constitutions. At uni the boys stay the same but the girls manage to tank their metabolisms and become whales within the first two years of sorority.

On the other hand, zoomer males who grow up in villages can be scary tall, especially in the north. They regularly exceed 2 meters, eating primarily bread with cheese, cold cuts of meat, jam, and hagslag (high sugar, low cocoa powder chocolate flakes) and drinking milk and fruit juice from concentrate for breakfast and dinner, and pork, potatoes, and one cooked vegetable for lunch. Snacks are milky tea and candy. Oh, and they bicycle 10-20km to high school and back.