Why Can I Only Run On Catecholamines And Not On Thyroid?

[mangoes]

@lampofred thanks

 

[YourUniverse]

Lack of panic and anxiety probably means noradrenaline is low and therefore as Hans was suggesting I think your PNS overpowers the SNS when you aren't on any stimulants. This can be caused by the stimulants such as caffeine. The more stimulants you take which stimulate the SNS, the more PNS strengthens to compensate and your own sympathetic nervous system becomes dependent on stimulants.

I agree that coffee/caffeine can be good for the liver, but you mention that you "can drink pretty good amounts of coffee with no agitation". This is indicating to me that you are now resistant to caffeine's effects at the doses you take it. Which is exactly what all stimulants do in the body. Eventually they don't work as well because your PNS strengthens to match the stimulation so when caffeine wears off your energy literally just dies because your SNS doesnt work without caffeine.

Just so you don't get confused, you need the sympathetic for energy. You kill it you have no energy, thyroid is not related here. Thyroid sensitizes adrenal hormones so you need less but they are needed for energy. Eventually you lose effect from T3 because it also stimulates and your body tries to compensate like with caffeine.

All fatigue is related to a weak sympathetic nervous system.

So you can rely on caffeine for the boost which is fine, or you can wean off and then eventually your SNS will start to work again as you withdraw. Or you can do neither and just wean off the caffeine until you have only maybe a cup or two worth of caffeine a day. I don't know how much caffeine you intake daily.

Super interesting, does that mean yoga, gentle aerobics and meditation would strengthen the SNS?

 

[redsun]

Super interesting, does that mean yoga, gentle aerobics and meditation would strengthen the SNS?

This is in relation to chemicals you consume. Stimulants will weaken the SNS, making the PNS more dominant. The opposite of stimulants is depressants. So if you take depressants like alcohol, opioids, and benzodiazepines your PNS will weaken, making the SNS more dominant.

@lampofred This also explains why when you consume alcohol you "turn into a potato". Your SNS already barely works without caffeine, then you take alcohol which further depresses the already caffeine-dependent SNS and your energy levels literally die.

 

[YourUniverse]

This is in relation to chemicals you consume. Stimulants will weaken the SNS, making the PNS more dominant. The opposite of stimulants is depressants. So if you take depressants like alcohol, opioids, and benzodiazepines your PNS will weaken, making the SNS more dominant.

@lampofred This also explains why when you consume alcohol you "turn into a potato". Your SNS already barely works without caffeine, then you take alcohol which further depresses the already caffeine-dependent SNS and your energy levels literally die.

Yes but at what level of alcohol intake would the pns/sns balance shift more in favour of sns? What would be considered "chronic", months?

Also, wheat and dairy contain food opioids

 

[redsun]

Yes but at what level of alcohol intake would the pns/sns balance shift more in favour of sns? What would be considered "chronic", months?

Its more complicated than just PNS, SNS but that's the big picture so to speak. Different chemicals affect different neurotransmitters. Caffeine affects adenosine receptor. Alcohol messes with GABA. MSG agonizes NMDA.

Everything is different and I am not entirely familiar with alcohol (dont drink it myself). But if you know what neurotransmitter a certain chemical affects, you then can know what happens when you chronically use it.

That's why even though caffeine doesnt work the exact same way as adderall and benzodiazepines dont work like alcohol they are still classed into either stimulants or depressants.

 

[Wilfrid]

I remember reading in Dr Kenneth R. Blanchard' book ( " The functional approach to hypothyroidism " ) that : ".... increased T4 to T3 conversion in the pituitary suppresses the TSH secretion by increasing T3 in the pituitary, essentially setting the thyroid thermostat lower. The peripheral generation of T3 gradually gets reduced over a few months due to depletion of the T4 in the tissues, and the reduction in TSH also tends to reduce peripheral T4 to T3 conversion. "
" TSH itself is a regulator of the Type-I deiodinase enzyme."
( As far as I can remember, in hypothyroidism, the Type-I deiodinase enzyme activity is often downregulates in favor of the Type-II deiodinase enzyme. And the type II 5'-deiodinase appears to generate T3 for local use in organs such as pituitary ( as well as brain and brown adipose tissue )).
Maybe this is why you felt some benefits by nibbling T3. But in the pattern described by Dr Blanchard, you may doing more harm than good to your thyroid by taking long-term exogenous T3 ( not to mention exogenous T4 since, according to him, the low TSH will probably further exacerbates T4 conversion into rT3 ).
In his clinical practice, he believed that some of his patients with T4 and T3 levels at the low end of normal and with a TSH close to zero ( assuming no pituitary dysfunction ) are in fact somewhat hypothyroid and that the low TSH is actually related to intense T4 to T3 conversion within the pituitary gland itself, which falsely suppresses the TSH.
So once you are in this situation you must rely on " stress " hormones to back-up your faulty thyroid function which put you, as well, in a viscious health loop.
Of course, this is not a Peat-approved theory of your actual health situation.
I think that this website is worth checking too: Voyage to Health
Edit: On your latest blood test, what was your T3/T4 ratio? Did you measure, by chance, your serum TBG?

 

[Wilfrid]

More on the subject, considering that the highest levels of the Type I 5'-deiodinase enzyme are found in the thyroid, kidney and liver and that a the very high activity of this enzyme could cause a rapid degradation of rT3 to 3,3'-T2.
If you happen to have a high rT3 ( but I think that you didn't make the test, right? ), you may have another hint of what is going on with your current thyroid function'status.
And that will further corroborate Dr Blanchard's analyses.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

High estrogen and cortisol cause cocaine-like alertnes

I remember once I went clubbing, and decided to drink 1-2 beers. I very rarely drink. Oh boy. I got a sudden intense energy and alertness.
I understand that it rapidly spikes estrogen, possibly serotonin too.
However, @redsun is saying that alcohol is a depressant, so I'm confused. I know nothing about the CNS and neurotransmitters.

 

[redsun]

I remember once I went clubbing, and decided to drink 1-2 beers. I very rarely drink. Oh boy. I got a sudden intense energy and alertness.
I understand that it rapidly spikes estrogen, possibly serotonin too.
However, @redsun is saying that alcohol is a depressant, so I'm confused. I know nothing about the CNS and neurotransmitters.

According to some online resources it is mentioned alcohol is initially stimulatory but the more you drink the more it will start to sedate. I assume they mean it very stimulatory to certain neurotransmitters and reduces inhibitions as well. The initial bump in dopamine, histamine, estrogen explains the stimulation but when you get too much alcohol it causes CNS depression. Thats why its referred to as a depressant.

 

[Sulcuscentralis]

I remember once I went clubbing, and decided to drink 1-2 beers. I very rarely drink. Oh boy. I got a sudden intense energy and alertness.
I understand that it rapidly spikes estrogen, possibly serotonin too.
However, @redsun is saying that alcohol is a depressant, so I'm confused. I know nothing about the CNS and neurotransmitters.

WhatRedsun said.
Alcohol inhibits the synapses, even those that are inhibitory. The inhibition of inhibition will give you stimulation (disinhibition) - you gonna be more relaxed, talkative and dopamine will take over. The right setting is important too. Some people however will get drowsy even after 1-2 drinks - they're gonna be more gaba dominant.