What Are Your Best Fat Soluble Vitamins Combinations From Personal Experience?

[milk_lover]

Balance between A, D, E, and K is crucial I think to get the best reaults. I would like to know what you guys are doing with regard to that. I personally take D, A, K2 together. A reduces prolactin thus prevents too much conversion of vitamin D to the active form and K2 helps put the calcium into the right places (i.e., not the soft tissues). Without vitamin A, i feel I need to supplement with magnesium when i take vitamin D.
I tried A with E and it worked just fine.
I take k2 with Aspirin.
Sometimes K2 with a cup of milk.
I am just throwing different combinations i tried with fat soluble vitamins. If you have secrets or tricks that could help us, by all means share please. I am trying to find the best combinations that yeild net positive results.

 

[DaveFoster]

All at once of course. I take everything all at once. It's like a flood of exogenous nutriceuticals to my poor liver.

 

[Amazoniac]

Fat-soluble vitamin intestinal absorption: Absorption sites in the intestine and interactions for absorption

Spoiler: Quotes

I'm leaving these boxes so that people can now expand at their will.

"The interactions occurring at the intestinal level between the fat-soluble vitamins A, D, E and K (FSVs) are poorly documented. We first determined each FSV absorption profile along the duodenal–colonic axis of mouse intestine to clarify their respective absorption sites. We then investigated the interactions between FSVs during their uptake by Caco-2 cells."

"Our data show that vitamin A was mostly absorbed in the mouse proximal intestine, while vitamin D was absorbed in the median intestine, and vitamin E and K in the distal intestine."

"Vitamin A also significantly decreased the uptake of the other FSVs but, conversely, its uptake was not impaired by vitamins D and K and even promoted by vitamin E. These results should be taken into account, especially for supplement formulation, to optimise FSV absorption."

"Interestingly, several food component-vitamin interactions have been previously reported. We first showed that phytosterols inhibited vitamin D incorporation into micelles (Goncalves et al., 2011). Inhibition of a-tocopherol uptake was also observed in Caco-2 cells in the presence of different compounds, such as the phenolic naringenin, carotenoids and y-tocopherol (Reboul et al., 2007), and vitamin D uptake was impaired by a-tocopherol (Reboul et al., 2011) and phytosterols (Goncalves et al., 2011)."

"[..]the reason for decreased uptake of vitamin D in the presence of vitamin A remains unclear, although this antagonist interaction between vitamins A and D has been described elsewhere (Metz, Walser, & Olson, 1985). This was also observed in chicken where vitamin A negatively affected the utilization of dietary vitamin D3, but not of vitamin D3 produced by sun exposure (Aburto & Britton, 1998). Moreover, dietary vitamin A was shown to antagonise calcium response to vitamin D in humans (Johansson & Melhus, 2001)."

"Vitamin E showed a negative effect on vitamin D uptake at dose mimicking supplementation and pharmacological intake (15% and 17% respectively), and vice versa vitamin D pharmacological dose reduces vitamin E uptake upto 35%. This is in agreement with previous data in Caco-2 cells (Reboul et al., 2011) and in chickens (Aburto & Britton, 1998) showing that vitamin E had an inhibitory effect on dietary vitamin D uptake. Indeed, these two vitamins share common transport proteins such as NPC1-L1 and SR-BI (Reboul & Borel, 2011; Reboul et al., 2011)."

"Vitamin K uptake by Caco-2 cells was impaired (45%) by vitamin E while vitamin E uptake was impaired at high vitamin K concentration. Interestingly, our results could be relevant in regard to another study showing that a long-term vitamin E treatment at pharmacological doses was associated with hemorrhages, which were eliminated following vitamin K supplementation (Wheldon, Bhatt, Keller, & Hummler, 1983). Later, vitamin E supplementation was associated with a significant decrease of the incidence of thrombosis (Booth et al., 2004). Vitamin E may have anticoagulant properties, acting via a range of mechanisms, such as the inhibition of the enzyme allowing phylloquinone conversion to menadione, which is in turn alkylated into menaquinone-4 (MK-4), the main storage form in animals (Shearer, Fu, & Booth, 2012; Tovar et al., 2006). Vitamin E may also stimulate production of enzymes involved in vitamin K excretion (Booth et al., 2004). Thus, it is generally acknowledged that vitamin E may interfere with vitamin K activity, leading to bleeding in supplemented patients (Traber, 2008). Additionally, we suggest vitamin E may affect vitamin K through competition for absorption via (a) transporter(s) localised in the distal intestine, where both vitamins are predominantly absorbed – atleast in mice and perhaps in humans based on results from Caco-2 experiments."

"Similarly, vitamin D significantly reduced vitamin K uptake in a dose-dependent manner up to 58%. No data in the literature can explain this result but we suppose that vitamins D and K also share common uptake pathways."

"Altogether, our results show for the first time that the four FSVs may have different absorption sites in the intestine, suggesting different uptake mechanisms at the enterocyte level. We hypothesise common absorption pathways for vitamins D, E and K, which would explain the competition observed in @Glassy."

Spoiler: Summary of the following figure

There were 3 amounts experimented: dietary, supplemented (2-20 fold diet), and hospitalizing amounts. Figure 2 is showing the interactions in cell culture. Some of the findings might be off, but not all are too far off because some of them have already been confirmed in humanoids.

On the left there's the nutrient in question and on the horizontal axis how each nutrient affected its uptake.

As expected, for the most part low doses were the least impacting on each other. Vit K suffered the most, but this is great if it happens in humans given the massive amounts of K2 that people use (here it was K1). The only enhancing effects were of vitamin E and to a lesser extent K on vitamin A.

Spoiler: Figure 2 - Interactions

@haidut @Wilfrid

 

[haidut]

Fat-soluble vitamin intestinal absorption: Absorption sites in the intestine and interactions for absorption

Spoiler: Quotes

I'm leaving these boxes so that people can now expand at their will.

"The interactions occurring at the intestinal level between the fat-soluble vitamins A, D, E and K (FSVs) are poorly documented. We first determined each FSV absorption profile along the duodenal–colonic axis of mouse intestine to clarify their respective absorption sites. We then investigated the interactions between FSVs during their uptake by Caco-2 cells."

"Our data show that vitamin A was mostly absorbed in the mouse proximal intestine, while vitamin D was absorbed in the median intestine, and vitamin E and K in the distal intestine."

"Vitamin A also significantly decreased the uptake of the other FSVs but, conversely, its uptake was not impaired by vitamins D and K and even promoted by vitamin E. These results should be taken into account, especially for supplement formulation, to optimise FSV absorption."

"Interestingly, several food component-vitamin interactions have been previously reported. We first showed that phytosterols inhibited vitamin D incorporation into micelles (Goncalves et al., 2011). Inhibition of a-tocopherol uptake was also observed in Caco-2 cells in the presence of different compounds, such as the phenolic naringenin, carotenoids and y-tocopherol (Reboul et al., 2007), and vitamin D uptake was impaired by a-tocopherol (Reboul et al., 2011) and phytosterols (Goncalves et al., 2011)."

"[..]the reason for decreased uptake of vitamin D in the presence of vitamin A remains unclear, although this antagonist interaction between vitamins A and D has been described elsewhere (Metz, Walser, & Olson, 1985). This was also observed in chicken where vitamin A negatively affected the utilization of dietary vitamin D3, but not of vitamin D3 produced by sun exposure (Aburto & Britton, 1998). Moreover, dietary vitamin A was shown to antagonise calcium response to vitamin D in humans (Johansson & Melhus, 2001)."

"Vitamin E showed a negative effect on vitamin D uptake at dose mimicking supplementation and pharmacological intake (15% and 17% respectively), and vice versa vitamin D pharmacological dose reduces vitamin E uptake upto 35%. This is in agreement with previous data in Caco-2 cells (Reboul et al., 2011) and in chickens (Aburto & Britton, 1998) showing that vitamin E had an inhibitory effect on dietary vitamin D uptake. Indeed, these two vitamins share common transport proteins such as NPC1-L1 and SR-BI (Reboul & Borel, 2011; Reboul et al., 2011)."

"Vitamin K uptake by Caco-2 cells was impaired (45%) by vitamin E while vitamin E uptake was impaired at high vitamin K concentration. Interestingly, our results could be relevant in regard to another study showing that a long-term vitamin E treatment at pharmacological doses was associated with hemorrhages, which were eliminated following vitamin K supplementation (Wheldon, Bhatt, Keller, & Hummler, 1983). Later, vitamin E supplementation was associated with a significant decrease of the incidence of thrombosis (Booth et al., 2004). Vitamin E may have anticoagulant properties, acting via a range of mechanisms, such as the inhibition of the enzyme allowing phylloquinone conversion to menadione, which is in turn alkylated into menaquinone-4 (MK-4), the main storage form in animals (Shearer, Fu, & Booth, 2012; Tovar et al., 2006). Vitamin E may also stimulate production of enzymes involved in vitamin K excretion (Booth et al., 2004). Thus, it is generally acknowledged that vitamin E may interfere with vitamin K activity, leading to bleeding in supplemented patients (Traber, 2008). Additionally, we suggest vitamin E may affect vitamin K through competition for absorption via (a) transporter(s) localised in the distal intestine, where both vitamins are predominantly absorbed – atleast in mice and perhaps in humans based on results from Caco-2 experiments."

"Similarly, vitamin D significantly reduced vitamin K uptake in a dose-dependent manner up to 58%. No data in the literature can explain this result but we suppose that vitamins D and K also share common uptake pathways."

"Altogether, our results show for the first time that the four FSVs may have different absorption sites in the intestine, suggesting different uptake mechanisms at the enterocyte level. We hypothesise common absorption pathways for vitamins D, E and K, which would explain the competition observed in @Glassy."

Spoiler: Summary of the following figure

There were 3 amounts experimented: dietary, supplemented (2-20 fold diet), and hospitalizing amounts. Figure 2 is showing the interactions in cell culture. Some of the findings might be off, but not all are too far off because some of them have already been confirmed in humanoids.

On the left there's the nutrient in question and on the horizontal axis how each nutrient affected its uptake.

As expected, for the most part low doses were the least impacting on each other. Vit K suffered the most, but this is great if it happens in humans given the massive amounts of K2 that people use (here it was K1). The only enhancing effects were of vitamin E and to a lesser extent K on vitamin A.

Spoiler: Figure 2 - Interactions

View attachment 11409

@haidut @Wilfrid

Thanks. All the more reason to use the FSV transdermally.

 

[Vinero]

Thanks. All the more reason to use the FSV transdermally.

Or take D orally, and K topically so they don't interfere with eachothers absorption in the intestine. The other way round probably also works. K orally and D topically.

 

[Mossy]

This is an interesting thread. Trying to get the balance right would seem key to those deficient in any of these vitamins.

If anyone has found success, please share. I'm attempting to find a good approach for pairing FSVs, with regard to timing (am, pm) and application type (oral, topical).

My first thought is that low dose can be taken all at once, like with Estroban. The challenge is with larger doses. My goal is to attempt a once a week dose of A, D, K2, and E:

A: 25,000 IU
D: 10,000 IU
K2: 10mg,
E: 400 IU

I then read that you need more vitamin C when taking E, and then you need more mag with FSVs, as well as the mag requiring B6, and the B6 requiring B2. So, much trial and error is ahead, no doubt.