Sebaceous filaments are ruining my face

[Josh]

I’ve posted a dozen times in here about sebaceous filaments (solidified sebum) which protrude from the pores all over my face/scalp/upper chest and back (all areas where there is higher sebum production).

Now I’ve had them for about 3 years now but only noticed them about a year and a half ago, now since then my pores have gotten 10x worse, I now have large pores which cover most of my face and I still have this re occurring issue of the filaments filling them up and looking like there is rice grains poking out of my skin, even if they have just been taken out of the pore they fill back up really quickly.

My skin is also dry.

The only thing that sounds plausible to me is my higher sat fat intake causing it and making up the composition of my sebum but I’d find it so difficult to cut fat out completely, I’m already skinny as heck and I’m working out consistently at the moment so the lost calories from the sat fat would be a killer.

I see some people state that pores are genetic, which makes no sense in my case as there’s not one person in my family with large pores.

I’ve tried so many topical things the last year, including oil cleansing and nothing really works.

Theres got to be a reason why my skin is doing this?! It’s not a normal things, there’s hardly any info about it online, I can’t even find much stuff in online forums or anything so I’m absolutely baffled. I don’t see people in Keto groups complaining about it and I see nothing here.

I have dry skin already, I know that pores can get bigger with age as you lose elastin in the case which keeps the pores more ‘together’ but I’m only 22 and I don’t want this appearance so young getting any worse than what it is!!

There’s got to be something out there! A year and a half later of experimenting and researching and I’ve got nothing!

I do apologise if you’ve seen me post this before but it’s something I’m so desperate to know about it!!!

 

[Korven]

I also have this kind of skin texture with large pores and "rice grains" sticking out. It doesn't matter what I eat or what supplements I take, it stays the same. I believe it's due to an overgrowth of demodex mites and the standard treatment would be a course of oral ivermectin for 14 days, if you can get a derm to prescribe that. Dehydrated skin and a damaged skin barrier makes it worse I think.

I'm currently taking neem powder orally (4 g) to keep demodex population down, and neem/raw honey/colloidal oatmeal/sulfur mixed together and used topically for 15 min daily, as well as hypochlorous acid spray to reduce inflammation. My skin is actually improving with this treatment. I used benzoyl peroxide for years which kind of worked but destroyed/imbalanced my skin flora which made it way worse long-term.

Edit: I think it's also important to simultaneously work on improving thyroid function and immune function so your skin can keep pathogenic microorganisms in check and establish a normal flora.

 

[Belsazar]

The only thing that sounds plausible to me is my higher sat fat intake causing it and making up the composition of my sebum but I’d find it so difficult to cut fat out completely, I’m already skinny as heck and I’m working out consistently at the moment so the lost calories from the sat fat would be a killer.

What's the source of fat you are using? Consider that milk fat comes along with higher Vitamin A content then other fats. Do you have hyperkeratinization?

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I’ve posted a dozen times in here about sebaceous filaments (solidified sebum) which protrude from the pores all over my face/scalp/upper chest and back (all areas where there is higher sebum production).

Now I’ve had them for about 3 years now but only noticed them about a year and a half ago, now since then my pores have gotten 10x worse, I now have large pores which cover most of my face and I still have this re occurring issue of the filaments filling them up and looking like there is rice grains poking out of my skin, even if they have just been taken out of the pore they fill back up really quickly.

My skin is also dry.

The only thing that sounds plausible to me is my higher sat fat intake causing it and making up the composition of my sebum but I’d find it so difficult to cut fat out completely, I’m already skinny as heck and I’m working out consistently at the moment so the lost calories from the sat fat would be a killer.

I see some people state that pores are genetic, which makes no sense in my case as there’s not one person in my family with large pores.

I’ve tried so many topical things the last year, including oil cleansing and nothing really works.

Theres got to be a reason why my skin is doing this?! It’s not a normal things, there’s hardly any info about it online, I can’t even find much stuff in online forums or anything so I’m absolutely baffled. I don’t see people in Keto groups complaining about it and I see nothing here.

I have dry skin already, I know that pores can get bigger with age as you lose elastin in the case which keeps the pores more ‘together’ but I’m only 22 and I don’t want this appearance so young getting any worse than what it is!!

There’s got to be something out there! A year and a half later of experimenting and researching and I’ve got nothing!

I do apologise if you’ve seen me post this before but it’s something I’m so desperate to know about it!!!

I use to have large pores too, as did my grandfather. We both had some cyst problems as well, and no dermatologist could help. My skin was always oily and I would have to powder my nose often throughout the day, referring to myself as "butter face". Getting oils out of my life I am sure has made a difference, but I also stopped washing my face day and night, which was constantly activating my face to replenish the oils, creating a vicious cycle. I only wash my face at night now and sometimes skipping a day. Now you cannot see a pore on my face. Dont use harsh cleansers, toners, lotions and such. Besides the washing my face once a day advice, the biggest difference came from not using hot water in baths and shower, and at the end of my warm bath or shower I rinse my face (and hair) in ICE COLD water to stop any sweating, which breeds bacteria and draws those oils out of the skin, leaving them to harden aka rice. I gave that advice to my son's girlfriend, as her skin was so so terrible and she looks amazing now. She is eternally grateful for the tips.

 

[Belsazar]

I use to have large pores too, as did my grandfather. We both had some cyst problems as well, and no dermatologist could help. My skin was always oily and I would have to powder my nose often throughout the day, referring to myself as "butter face". Getting oils out of my life I am sure has made a difference, but I also stopped washing my face day and night, which was constantly activating my face to replenish the oils, creating a vicious cycle. I only wash my face at night now and sometimes skipping a day. Now you cannot see a pore on my face. Dont use harsh cleansers, toners, lotions and such. Besides the washing my face once a day advice, the biggest difference came from not using hot water in baths and shower, and at the end of my warm bath or shower I rinse my face (and hair) in ICE COLD water to stop any sweating, which breeds bacteria and draws those oils out of the skin, leaving them to harden aka rice. I gave that advice to my son's girlfriend, as her skin was so so terrible and she looks amazing now. She is eternally grateful for the tips.

If there is no inflammation on the skin it might be worth trying - there was the "cavemen regimen" going around on acne forums for a while (basically not washing the face, not even with water) after some people noticed clearing of their skin on holiday (without any skincare at all) but stress or sun might play a role as well. Ive always wondered how certain people did not care about their skin at all but have perfect skin, but sometimes disease manifests differently in different people. Maybe skin peels such as salicylic acid (peaty) or glycolic acid (non peaty?) could be tried or some have good experience with topical niacinamide (peaty).

 

[ursidae]

Have you had a lipid panel done?

do you have high cholesterol

I think sebum like this is heart disease manifested in the skin

I developed this problem too. My skin used to look airbrushed, pores were tiny. Then my pores got raped by this solid sebum sitting in there too long before getting excreted. When I eat lots of mufa, some o3 and linoleic acid, take vitamin D, E it gets liquefied but this doesn’t always work.
Literally no one I see no matter how ridiculous their lifestyle has my bizarre skin issues, including family members .

 

[ursidae]

I know you don’t have acne but I think one can draw upon acne studies to understand the problem of abnormal sebum viscosity. After all this type of sebum is comedogenic and comedones are the beginning of acne

Clinical implications of lipid peroxidation in acne vulgaris: old wine in new bottles

Acne vulgaris is a common dermatological disorder, one that is frequently associated with depression, anxiety and other psychological sequelae. In recent years there has been an increasing focus on the extent to which oxidative stress is involved in the ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

“
In 1965, University of Chicago investigator Allan L. Lorincz postulated that oxidative breakdown of squalene and other skin lipids may not merely be a consequence of the acne process. He suggested that lipid peroxides might be directly 'acnegenic to the skin'. Based on his theory, it was hypothesized that antioxidants would be of value in limiting and preventing the condition via reduction in the formation of peroxides and other oxidation products. In a small controlled pilot study (n = 15) he reported clinical success with topical alpha-tocopherol (0.05%) in acne after one month of evaluation by an independent examiner [14]. While there had been previous reports of clinical success with vitamins A and C [15-19], Lorincz was the first to specifically consider antioxidants to be of value in acne. The previous benefits of what would turn out to be called antioxidant vitamins and flavonoids (including an 800 mg oral vitamin C and hesperidin complex) were largely attributed to support of normal keratinization [17,18].

Further support to the lipid peroxidation hypothesis would come from University of California, Davis, scientist Alloys L. Tappel, who reported in 1975 that lipid peroxidation is evident in acne, and that localized free radical damage and peroxides might be involved in initiating the damaging inflammatory reactions [20]. Following this, other investigators reported that components of sebum, particularly squalene, show enhanced comedogenicity when oxidized [21]. Indeed, squalene was reported to be highly sensitive to oxidation and researchers reported that both squalene and its oxidized metabolites are found at much higher levels in acne vs. healthy controls [13,22-24]. University of California, Los Angeles, dermatologist Samuel Ayres Jr. and colleague Richard Mihan provided observational case reports indicating benefit of the synergistic value of oral vitamins A and E as a means to attenuate lipid peroxidation in acne.”

Sebaceous gland lipids

The principal activity of mature sebaceous glands is producing and secreting sebum, which is a complex mixture of lipids. Sebum composition is different among species and this difference is probably due to the function that sebum has to absolve. In human ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

“
Decreased concentration of linoleic acid has been observed in skin surface lipids of acne patients. In particular, its level has been found significantly reduced in wax esters making it reasonable to assume that linoleic acid is directly involved in the sebaceous lipid synthesis.8

Moreover, experimental data suggest that it is incorporated in epidermal lipids of the infundibulum. In experimental models, linoleic acid is preferentially transformed into two carbons precursors in the sebaceous gland by entering the β-oxidation reaction at the acylside chain, which yields to acetyl-CoA. The latter product feeds the biosynthetic pathway leading to squalene and wax esters synthesis.9 It seems that β-oxidation of linoleic acid is specific of sebocytes and that it is correlated with their differentiation. A diminished amount of linoleic acid has been proposed as a factor predisposing to comedones formation.10 Moreover, low level of linoleic acid also produces impairment of the epidermal barrier function, which might account for increased permeability of comedonal wall to inflammatory substances.11Other lipids have been proposed as having involvement in the development of comedone lesions. In particular the attention has been pointed to the increase of other fatty acid and by-products of squalene peroxidation.12–14 Following UV exposure, squalene undergoes massive photodegradation. Irradiation of human skin leads to a squalene decomposition of about 60% similar to that observed in vitro.15 Upon oxidative challenge, squalene is readily oxidized giving rise to different squalene peroxidation by-products exerting harmful activities in skin cell cultures and in vivo, including keratinocytes cytotoxicity,15 histologic changes and immunosuppressison.16 According to Kohno et al. the primary peroxidation product in human skin surface lipids is squalene monohydroperoxide.17Squalene peroxide has been demonstrated to be comedogenic: in animal experiments, comedones have been triggered by exposing rabbit ears to irradiated squalene. A positive correlation was found between degree of squalene peroxidation and size of the comedones elicited.

 

[PolishSun]

I thought it happens because of the inflamed guts. But could be anything, actually.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

If there is no inflammation on the skin it might be worth trying - there was the "cavemen regimen" going around on acne forums for a while (basically not washing the face, not even with water) after some people noticed clearing of their skin on holiday (without any skincare at all) but stress or sun might play a role as well. Ive always wondered how certain people did not care about their skin at all but have perfect skin, but sometimes disease manifests differently in different people. Maybe skin peels such as salicylic acid (peaty) or glycolic acid (non peaty?) could be tried or some have good experience with topical niacinamide (peaty).

Before I knew better I did the dermatologist route, had cysts injections to deflate them, used Retin-A for years, used toners and high end product, put my son on Accutane for a year, only for it to come back, and the list goes on. It wasn't until I stopped constantly chasing the problem and let me skin calm down and did the cold rinse to stop the sweating and breading did it all go away, and my sons too and my son's girlfriend. Changing your pillow case every couple of days will be necessary too until you clear this up. Feel free to pick my brain further on the subject anytime :)

I thought it happens because of the inflamed guts. But could be anything, actually.

 

[Josh]

I also have this kind of skin texture with large pores and "rice grains" sticking out. It doesn't matter what I eat or what supplements I take, it stays the same. I believe it's due to an overgrowth of demodex mites and the standard treatment would be a course of oral ivermectin for 14 days, if you can get a derm to prescribe that. Dehydrated skin and a damaged skin barrier makes it worse I think.

I'm currently taking neem powder orally (4 g) to keep demodex population down, and neem/raw honey/colloidal oatmeal/sulfur mixed together and used topically for 15 min daily, as well as hypochlorous acid spray to reduce inflammation. My skin is actually improving with this treatment. I used benzoyl peroxide for years which kind of worked but destroyed/imbalanced my skin flora which made it way worse long-term.

Edit: I think it's also important to simultaneously work on improving thyroid function and immune function so your skin can keep pathogenic microorganisms in check and establish a normal flora.

Just saw this!! Right, so I’ve saw that about demodex mites but I thought that was to do with rosacea?

oh interesting, so these topical things have reduced the filaments?

from what I’ve researched on it, I really didn’t think it was anything to do with bacteria/flora etc and thought it was just purely to do with the consistency of the sebum: when I asked Ray he called them sebum keratin plugs I believe, so maybe there’s something going on with that?

I too used BP for years and ruined my skin!

thanks for the comment!

 

[Josh]

What's the source of fat you are using? Consider that milk fat comes along with higher Vitamin A content then other fats. Do you have hyperkeratinization?

I’m consuming mostly coconut oil right now, along with butter and red meat.. I’ve gone through periods of consuming mostly butter instead of coconut oil etc..

I don’t think I have hyperkerstinizaiton when looking at photos

 

[Josh]

I use to have large pores too, as did my grandfather. We both had some cyst problems as well, and no dermatologist could help. My skin was always oily and I would have to powder my nose often throughout the day, referring to myself as "butter face". Getting oils out of my life I am sure has made a difference, but I also stopped washing my face day and night, which was constantly activating my face to replenish the oils, creating a vicious cycle. I only wash my face at night now and sometimes skipping a day. Now you cannot see a pore on my face. Dont use harsh cleansers, toners, lotions and such. Besides the washing my face once a day advice, the biggest difference came from not using hot water in baths and shower, and at the end of my warm bath or shower I rinse my face (and hair) in ICE COLD water to stop any sweating, which breeds bacteria and draws those oils out of the skin, leaving them to harden aka rice. I gave that advice to my son's girlfriend, as her skin was so so terrible and she looks amazing now. She is eternally grateful for the tips.

Thank you for the comment, I wish this worked for me too but it hasn’t unfortunately... my current regime is simply washing once a day at night with cold water and have done this for years, I’ve tried long periods in that time of acrualy Consistently Going a few days without washing my face at all, does nothing for these filaments don’t give up, I would say with my skin there is not a bit of ‘runny’ oil at all,
It is 100% solidified

 

[Josh]

If there is no inflammation on the skin it might be worth trying - there was the "cavemen regimen" going around on acne forums for a while (basically not washing the face, not even with water) after some people noticed clearing of their skin on holiday (without any skincare at all) but stress or sun might play a role as well. Ive always wondered how certain people did not care about their skin at all but have perfect skin, but sometimes disease manifests differently in different people. Maybe skin peels such as salicylic acid (peaty) or glycolic acid (non peaty?) could be tried or some have good experience with topical niacinamide (peaty).

Yeah I’ve actually tried this for long periods of times and doesn’t do nothing for these filaments :/ yeah them Salicylic acid are things I’m going to try in the futurE, I just wanted to get a hold of it internally first

 

[Josh]

Have you had a lipid panel done?

do you have high cholesterol

I think sebum like this is heart disease manifested in the skin

I developed this problem too. My skin used to look airbrushed, pores were tiny. Then my pores got raped by this solid sebum sitting in there too long before getting excreted. When I eat lots of mufa, some o3 and linoleic acid, take vitamin D, E it gets liquefied but this doesn’t always work.
Literally no one I see no matter how ridiculous their lifestyle has my bizarre skin issues, including family members .

Yeah so I had my lipids done last September 2020, I started eating saturated fat / cholsterol containing foods back in 2017 and have eat a high consumption of them over the years since, now you know you hear about they don’t contribute to heart disease and stuff, my lipids did increase from when I didn’t consume, not by much though.

I am only 22, I doubt I actually have heart disease

@ursidae

these are my lipids
View: https://imgur.com/a/1kZ4Y79

 

[ursidae]

oh never mind then that was a guess. Based on the fact that the comedogenic sebum of acne sufferers contains more cholesterol and wax esters, has a notably greater squalene content which is a cholesterol precursor. I had hypercholesteremia and the sebum issue was pretty bad when my cholesterol was at 8. But that’s not your case. I’m not an expert on this but from what I’ve read I understand it hardens because of the high squalene content and the susceptibility of squalene to oxidation. I would attempt vitamin E, C

I don’t have a citation for this but I think there is a hormonal component adding to the viscosity of sebum with IGF-1, androgens and prolactin increasing the tendency for higher viscosity. I think this same thing makes people more prone to ear infections. The composition of the sebum will affect the melting point but the temperature of your skin and your surroundings, the humidity also matter

Since you do not want to consume PUFA have you tried adding in a modest amount of MUFA?

 

[Korven]

Just saw this!! Right, so I’ve saw that about demodex mites but I thought that was to do with rosacea?

oh interesting, so these topical things have reduced the filaments?

from what I’ve researched on it, I really didn’t think it was anything to do with bacteria/flora etc and thought it was just purely to do with the consistency of the sebum: when I asked Ray he called them sebum keratin plugs I believe, so maybe there’s something going on with that?

I too used BP for years and ruined my skin!

thanks for the comment!

Yeah you're correct! Individuals with rosacea have 10x the amounts of demodex vs normal people, and then the immune system reacts to either the mites and/or the poop and bacteria when they die. If you don't have any signs or symptoms of rosacea then maybe demodex isn't an issue for you. But I have a suspicion that you can have a problem with these critters even if you don't have the classical signs such as redness, "rosacea acne", red eyes etc. For me it started with the sebum keratin plugs and then it progressed onto other rosacea like symptoms.

When I stick with a 100% strict and clean Peat diet my skin looks way better and these keratin plugs aren't as noticeable. However if I start eating junk food/gut-irritating foods these keratin plugs will become inflamed and I get acne like pustules. I believe untreated SIBO/gut inflammation is what allows these demodex mites to overpopulate the skin, possibly through increasing oil production, or messing with immune system function. So diet is super important but I really think topical treatments are necessary too for this issue. I've also tried eating zero vitamin A for months, only made things worse. I've tried eating lots of liver for copper and vitamin A, didn't help either.

I've tried getting of BP for years and when I stopped it would always backfire hard. I'm seeing great success lately with a good diet + topical treatment of soothing, anti-inflammatory, anti-demodex substances. HOCL spray is a fantastic alternative to BP. My nose is typically the worst place but now I don't have any congestion at all. It is possible that taking thyroid has helped my skin heal as well, just as any other organ the skin needs optimal ATP production to function and produce antimicrobials such as defensins and cathelicidins.

I think yeast/fungal infections can also trigger the skin to overproduce keratin. Raw honey/sulfur/neem should work as a pretty effective anti-fungal.

 

[ursidae]

@OP have you found relief?

I’m still struggling with this and I’m inclined to believe the “increased oxidative stress” explanation. I’ll be experimenting with moderate doses vitamin c and vitamin E and will report back on changes in the viscosity of my sebum if there are any. I have Ester-C by viridian and tocovit at hand. I’ll be emphasising zinc copper and manganese (SOD); riboflavin, glycine and selenium (GSH)

If this route doesn’t work low cholesterol/saturated fat diet will be my next attempt.

I think dopamine/prolactin might play a role since when I took cabergoline my sebum liquefied, almost overnight.

 

[Josh]

@OP have you found relief?

I’m still struggling with this and I’m inclined to believe the “increased oxidative stress” explanation. I’ll be experimenting with moderate doses vitamin c and vitamin E and will report back on changes in the viscosity of my sebum if there are any. I have Ester-C by viridian and tocovit at hand. I’ll be emphasising zinc copper and manganese (SOD); riboflavin, glycine and selenium (GSH)

If this route doesn’t work low cholesterol/saturated fat diet will be my next attempt.

I think dopamine/prolactin might play a role since when I took cabergoline my sebum liquefied, almost overnight.

I've found no relief unfortunately, it just gets worse to be honest.

Thats crazy that Cabergoline liquefied your sebum over night!!

I suspect the cause of them is high hormones mixed with the consumption of sat fat/cholesterol + high prolactin, (I have really high androgen hormones and I also have high prolactin in most blood tests I've had the past few years!!)

 

[Serene]

@Josh I just wanted to post this here. I also have filaments and some areas of large pores, starting getting worse over last winter. I was being treated for acne, have tried almost every product known to man, with no improvements, or some improvements and then gets worse again. Derm treatments and visits to estheticians got me nowhere.

I came upon this blog and realized I actually have fungal folliculitis, not acne, and almost every single face product has ingredients that make it worse (fungus feeds on fatty acids). There are a lot of articles here with plenty of references, and products you may want to try/avoid.

I know that this has something to do with my gut/hormones (mold exposure, SIBO, candida, leaky gut) so I know that the products are not the end-all, be-all, but may be worth a look if you havent read through these. The owner of the blog just started a skin care line as well. I just ordered and have started using his products. I'll keep you posted.

Home

Fungal Acne Treatment - Buy Fungal Acne Products at Malezia.

Good luck :)

 

[aniciete]

Before I knew better I did the dermatologist route, had cysts injections to deflate them, used Retin-A for years, used toners and high end product, put my son on Accutane for a year, only for it to come back, and the list goes on. It wasn't until I stopped constantly chasing the problem and let me skin calm down and did the cold rinse to stop the sweating and breading did it all go away, and my sons too and my son's girlfriend. Changing your pillow case every couple of days will be necessary too until you clear this up. Feel free to pick my brain further on the subject anytime :)

Hey, I was wondering if you still use the same skin routine? I’ve been having some skin issues that I think are caused by using new product after new product. Come to think of it, my skin was best when going product free for a couple weeks.