Purpose Of Dietary Fat?

[cyclops]

What is the purpose of including fat in the diet (besides taste)?

Is it important to have some fat in your diet, or could a person do well long-term on a diet of high-quality carbs and protein?

We all know to avoid PUFA, but what about not eating any saturated fats either? A little is of course unavoidable, but trying to consume as little as possible. What would be the problem with that?

 

[tca300]

Ray Peats response when asked about a good amount of fat intake for health and longevity. " Since polyunsaturated fats accumulate with age, with harmful effects, I think using a fully saturated fat can be protective or restorative. Fat stimulates and regulates digestion, and saturated fat has a good influence on the intestinal bacteria, so I think the amount that makes the food pleasant is likely to be good for health and longevity. "

Ray Peats response to a question about a very low fat high sugar diet.
" The excess sugar helps to keep tissue fats saturated, resisting oxidation-inflammation, but if the thyroid is a little low, so that digestion slows down, bacteria have a better chance to thrive when fat in the food is lower. If a little fat is taken with some fiber, for example olive oil with carrot salad, or butter on cooked mushrooms, the antiseptic effect is spread along the intestine."

Ray Peats response when asked about optimal fat intake when 8% was the amount of fat currently being eaten, and also about weight loss.
" Sometimes a person’s digestion is better with a little more fat, but if a person is getting enough of the fat soluble vitamins (A,D,E,K) 8% is probably enough. If the fat is saturated, I think a much higher percentage of the diet would be o.k., and can be compatible with weight control. When I ate a lot of coconut oil, as well as a moderate amount of butterfat, my total fat intake was about 50% of my calories, but I didn’t gain any weight. "


On a personal note, saturated fat has a calming effect on me that protein or sugars cant produce, as well as it seems to help with regulatiry ( #2 ) and I've noticed my gym performance ( strength ) has improved dramatically as a result of increasing my fat intake from about 7-10% up to ~20% kcals while eating the same total amount of kcals, ( lowering sugars some and replacing with hydrogenated coconut oil or dairy fat ).

 

[Redeye]

Olive oil or coconut oil helps with constipation. Especially coconut oil.

 

[cyclops]

Ray Peats response when asked about a good amount of fat intake for health and longevity. " Since polyunsaturated fats accumulate with age, with harmful effects, I think using a fully saturated fat can be protective or restorative. Fat stimulates and regulates digestion, and saturated fat has a good influence on the intestinal bacteria, so I think the amount that makes the food pleasant is likely to be good for health and longevity. "

Ray Peats response to a question about a very low fat high sugar diet.
" The excess sugar helps to keep tissue fats saturated, resisting oxidation-inflammation, but if the thyroid is a little low, so that digestion slows down, bacteria have a better chance to thrive when fat in the food is lower. If a little fat is taken with some fiber, for example olive oil with carrot salad, or butter on cooked mushrooms, the antiseptic effect is spread along the intestine."

Ray Peats response when asked about optimal fat intake when 8% was the amount of fat currently being eaten, and also about weight loss.
" Sometimes a person’s digestion is better with a little more fat, but if a person is getting enough of the fat soluble vitamins (A,D,E,K) 8% is probably enough. If the fat is saturated, I think a much higher percentage of the diet would be o.k., and can be compatible with weight control. When I ate a lot of coconut oil, as well as a moderate amount of butterfat, my total fat intake was about 50% of my calories, but I didn’t gain any weight. "

On a personal note, saturated fat has a calming effect on me that protein or sugars cant produce, as well as it seems to help with regulatiry ( #2 ) and I've noticed my gym performance ( strength ) has improved dramatically as a result of increasing my fat intake from about 7-10% up to ~20% kcals while eating the same total amount of kcals, ( lowering sugars some and replacing with hydrogenated coconut oil or dairy fat ).

Thanks for putting this together tca300; very helpful.

Do you think actively losing bodyfat could temporarily fill the role of dietary fat? Meaning body fat is being released and your body is using that fat the same way it would normally use dietary fat? I'm guessing not because the fat most people have stored is probably very toxic.

 

[cyclops]

I've noticed my gym performance ( strength ) has improved dramatically as a result of increasing my fat intake from about 7-10% up to ~20% kcals while eating the same total amount of kcals, ( lowering sugars some and replacing with hydrogenated coconut oil or dairy fat ).

How did going from 10% to 20% effect your body composition and bodyfat level?

 

[tca300]

Thanks for putting this together tca300; very helpful.

Do you think actively losing bodyfat could temporarily fill the role of dietary fat? Meaning body fat is being released and your body is using that fat the same way it would normally use dietary fat? I'm guessing not because the fat most people have stored is probably very toxic.

I think so, but I also think that for a male, when you get to around 15% body fat and below, then the body gets a little panicky and then more fat should be consumed from then on.

I haven't experianced any fat gain from increasing fat intake, but I assume that if the fat is not mostly saturated it might lower the metabolism and eventually lead to needing to eat less and less in order to continue to lose fat.
When trading some sugar for hydrogenated coconut oil I noticed an increase in metabolism so I brought my sugars back up the their previous level and am now eating about 360 calories more than before and am losing weight quicker. But butter or olive oil, etc, might not have that same effect.

 

[cyclops]

I think so, but I also think that for a male, when you get to around 15% body fat and below, then the body gets a little panicky and then more fat should be consumed from then on.

Good advice.

hydrogenated coconut oil

I gotta get me some of this. Do you order it online?

 

[tca300]

Good advice.



I gotta get me some of this. Do you order it online?

Coconut Oil - 92 Degree

Is where I get mine from.

 

[Glassy]

I think so, but I also think that for a male, when you get to around 15% body fat and below, then the body gets a little panicky and then more fat should be consumed from then on.

I haven't experianced any fat gain from increasing fat intake, but I assume that if the fat is not mostly saturated it might lower the metabolism and eventually lead to needing to eat less and less in order to continue to lose fat.
When trading some sugar for hydrogenated coconut oil I noticed an increase in metabolism so I brought my sugars back up the their previous level and am now eating about 360 calories more than before and am losing weight quicker. But butter or olive oil, etc, might not have that same effect.

I can feel a pretty quick reaction to taking coconut oil with my body temperature raising significantly. Interestingly I don’t seem to feel the same effect with the coconut oil in the carrot salad as I do to taking some coconut oil based ice cream. I’ve often wondered if this short term spike in metabolism has any longer term effects on metabolism or is it more like throwing a handful of twigs onto a fire?

 

[raypeatclips]

To add to @tca300 fantastic post above. Peat has mentioned before saturated fat is protective against endotoxin.

Fat is also useful for slowing down the absorption of food. When I was trying very low fat (less than 10g a day), I would feel great an hour after eating but would suddenly feel horrific, shakey, hungry, low blood sugar. I tested with a glucometer during these episodes and my blood sugar was never low and was always within range. It was suggested that a sudden drop from a high blood sugar to a normal blood sugar could present these symptoms and that eating fat could slow the sudden drop. Since I have been generous with fat these issues have completely gone.

 

[cyclops]

Coconut Oil - 92 Degree

Is where I get mine from.

Nice. Thanks.

 

[cyclops]

To add to @tca300 fantastic post above. Peat has mentioned before saturated fat is protective against endotoxin.

Fat is also useful for slowing down the absorption of sugars. When I was trying very low fat (less than 10g a day), I would feel great an hour after eating but would suddenly feel horrific, shakey, hungry, low blood sugar. I tested with a glucometer during these episodes and my blood sugar was never low and was always within range. It was suggested that a sudden drop from a high blood sugar to a normal blood sugar could present these symptoms and that eating fat could slow the sudden drop. Since I have been generous with fat these issues have completely gone.

Yea I think I've been going to low on the dietary fat and may need to increase it, as I've run into similar issues.

Mostly I am just TIRED after eating, especially starch. This is probably why Ray recommends fat with starch. Especially after white rice I just need to sleep.

I've been doing this to lose some body fat and it works but it has its downsides. Maybe just I just need a slight increase in fat calories though while still keeping an overall low fat diet.

 

[tca300]

I can feel a pretty quick reaction to taking coconut oil with my body temperature raising significantly. Interestingly I don’t seem to feel the same effect with the coconut oil in the carrot salad as I do to taking some coconut oil based ice cream. I’ve often wondered if this short term spike in metabolism has any longer term effects on metabolism or is it more like throwing a handful of twigs onto a fire?

Used regularly I think its of benefit for many reasons. But I doubt more that a few tablespoons everyday is necessary. Ray uses about 1 - 4 tablespoons per day but typically only 1.

 

[Dobbler]

Ray Peats response when asked about a good amount of fat intake for health and longevity. " Since polyunsaturated fats accumulate with age, with harmful effects, I think using a fully saturated fat can be protective or restorative. Fat stimulates and regulates digestion, and saturated fat has a good influence on the intestinal bacteria, so I think the amount that makes the food pleasant is likely to be good for health and longevity. "

Ray Peats response to a question about a very low fat high sugar diet.
" The excess sugar helps to keep tissue fats saturated, resisting oxidation-inflammation, but if the thyroid is a little low, so that digestion slows down, bacteria have a better chance to thrive when fat in the food is lower. If a little fat is taken with some fiber, for example olive oil with carrot salad, or butter on cooked mushrooms, the antiseptic effect is spread along the intestine."

Ray Peats response when asked about optimal fat intake when 8% was the amount of fat currently being eaten, and also about weight loss.
" Sometimes a person’s digestion is better with a little more fat, but if a person is getting enough of the fat soluble vitamins (A,D,E,K) 8% is probably enough. If the fat is saturated, I think a much higher percentage of the diet would be o.k., and can be compatible with weight control. When I ate a lot of coconut oil, as well as a moderate amount of butterfat, my total fat intake was about 50% of my calories, but I didn’t gain any weight. "


On a personal note, saturated fat has a calming effect on me that protein or sugars cant produce, as well as it seems to help with regulatiry ( #2 ) and I've noticed my gym performance ( strength ) has improved dramatically as a result of increasing my fat intake from about 7-10% up to ~20% kcals while eating the same total amount of kcals, ( lowering sugars some and replacing with hydrogenated coconut oil or dairy fat ).

Interesting that you are eating dairy fat now, butter too? Sorry if im wrong but didnt u eat like 0,5 g PUFA / day a while ago?

 

[tca300]

Interesting that you are eating dairy fat now, butter too? Sorry if im wrong but didnt u eat like 0,5 g PUFA / day a while ago?

I have been eating low PUFA for about a decade and very low PUFA over this last year. Ray had mentioned to me that once a low PUFA state is achieved, it can be maintained by keeping the metabolism high and a more vaired diet can be eaten. I dont eat butter but sometimes have some 1% milk. My fat intake is mostly from hydrogenated coconut oil and even now I never exceed 2 grams of total PUFA per day.

 

[squanch]

Despite what a lot of the paleo crowd claims, it's a lot easier to increase daily calories with fat than (whole food) carbohydrates.
I currently eat between 3500 kcal and 4000 kcal daily to maintain my weight, I really can't eat that much on a low fat diet. It's just too much volume of food for me without some fat (or questionable things like throwing 30 bananas in a blender I guess...).
So besides what has already been said in this thread, I would add "increasing calorie density of meals".

Here is a haidut quote from a thread on lifespan:
"2) Percentage of dietary fat as a portion of total caloric input does not seem to decrease lifespan, but it does not increase it either. Since it had no effect on satiety, increasing fat as percentage of caloric input made the rodent fat over time since they kept eating until they satisfied their other macronutrient requirements (protein and carbs) regardless of how much fat they had already ingested. So, fat intake should be kept low if one wants to stay lean but otherwise has no effect on lifespan (in terms of quantity only; the study did NOT look at effects of type of fat)."

 

[cyclops]

Despite what a lot of the paleo crowd claims, it's a lot easier to increase daily calories with fat than (whole food) carbohydrates.
I currently eat between 3500 kcal and 4000 kcal daily to maintain my weight, I really can't eat that much on a low fat diet. It's just too much volume of food for me without some fat (or questionable things like throwing 30 bananas in a blender I guess...).
So besides what has already been said in this thread, I would add "increasing calorie density of meals".

Here is a haidut quote from a thread on lifespan:
"2) Percentage of dietary fat as a portion of total caloric input does not seem to decrease lifespan, but it does not increase it either. Since it had no effect on satiety, increasing fat as percentage of caloric input made the rodent fat over time since they kept eating until they satisfied their other macronutrient requirements (protein and carbs) regardless of how much fat they had already ingested. So, fat intake should be kept low if one wants to stay lean but otherwise has no effect on lifespan (in terms of quantity only; the study did NOT look at effects of type of fat)."

Interesting, because fat is sometimes touted as a macronutrient that does in fact keep people satiated. Usually in combination with a low carb diet I think.

 

[Glassy]

Despite what a lot of the paleo crowd claims, it's a lot easier to increase daily calories with fat than (whole food) carbohydrates.
I currently eat between 3500 kcal and 4000 kcal daily to maintain my weight, I really can't eat that much on a low fat diet. It's just too much volume of food for me without some fat (or questionable things like throwing 30 bananas in a blender I guess...).
So besides what has already been said in this thread, I would add "increasing calorie density of meals".

Here is a haidut quote from a thread on lifespan:
"2) Percentage of dietary fat as a portion of total caloric input does not seem to decrease lifespan, but it does not increase it either. Since it had no effect on satiety, increasing fat as percentage of caloric input made the rodent fat over time since they kept eating until they satisfied their other macronutrient requirements (protein and carbs) regardless of how much fat they had already ingested. So, fat intake should be kept low if one wants to stay lean but otherwise has no effect on lifespan (in terms of quantity only; the study did NOT look at effects of type of fat)."

I really struggled to eat high protein high starch (after doing low carb for 12 months). I remember sitting down to a 2lb plate of salted and boiled purple sweet potato and wondering how people did it. I ate it all with a 1lb tub of low fat cottage cheese and remembered thinking that this wasn’t sustainable. At the time I thought sugar was evil and that wheat was a lesser evil so I took to eating a lot of white rice and pasta with low fat sauces.

The problem I found with starches is that they took a lot longer than sugars to ‘digest’ when eaten in those sort of volumes. Fruit has a lot of water bulk to it but it passes through the stomach very quickly in comparison (I know passing through the stomach isn’t the same as digestion but it is a limiting factor). I’ve found I can eat a huge amount of fruit and then do it all again in 40 mins or so (not that I need or want to). I’m not sure how fruit calories compare to starch calories because I’ve not tracked my intake since adding in so much fruit, I should probably take another look at my intake.

Interesting, because fat is sometimes touted as a macronutrient that does in fact keep people satiated. Usually in combination with a low carb diet I think.

It does increase satiation but you can also eat a lot of it long before satiation kicks in. The thing with low carb is that initially it’s very difficult to eat a lot of fat quickly while keeping carbs low. Over time people learn how to eat fat quickly with minimal carbs in appetising ways. This is often when magically losing fat on low carb eating suddenly stops for people (they just get much better at it).

 

[cyclops]

It does increase satiation but you can also eat a lot of it long before satiation kicks in. The thing with low carb is that initially it’s very difficult to eat a lot of fat quickly while keeping carbs low. Over time people learn how to eat fat quickly with minimal carbs in appetising ways. This is often when magically losing fat on low carb eating suddenly stops for people (they just get much better at it).

Insightful.

 

[Westside PUFAs]

What is the purpose of including fat in the diet (besides taste)?

Fat doesn't taste good by itself. It's needs salt and/or sugar to taste good.

Pay close attention to what Ray said here at the end of this clip.

It can take 8-12 weeks for the brain to down regulate the "fat" craving when you eat low fat.

"Just about everything that goes wrong involves FFA increase. If they are totally saturated fatty acids, such as from coconut oil and butter, those are less harmful, but they still tend to shift the mitochondrial cellular metabolism away from using glucose and fructose and turning on various stress related things; By lowering the carbon dioxide production I think is the main mechanism."-RP