Is Health More Dependant On What You DON'T Eat, Rather Than What You Do?

[Sunny Jack]

I have seen this sentiment expressed here and elsewhere occasionally, that avoiding PUFAs, starch, grains and common dietary toxins are more important for promoting good health than any kind of food or supplements, including dairy, fruit, liver, shellfish, and so on. I think that Haidut said this was his general approach once.

Do others here share this view, or conversely do you think that a person should be fine eating a varied diet of most kinds of foods so long as they make sure to include certain staples such as weekly liver, oysters and things like dairy and saturated fats to maintain favourable calcium-to-phosphate and SFA-to-PUFA ratios?

 

[theLaw]

Based on my experience so far, using sups like caffeine/aspirin/niacinamide/thyroid are far more important than diet as long as your macros + micros are covered. The only exception being a very strict dietary protocol (see Danny Roddy).

Once you clean out the liver, remove most stored pufa, and fix digestion, the body appears to be much more resilient to a larger variety of foods.

Perhaps the secret to longevity is to create an organism that can easily rebound and regenerate from a less-than-optimal diet.

 

[Xisca]

Good thread...
In case of digesting issues, to remove triggers is important, but I keep in mind that it does not solve the problem, it helps to solve it. A bit of a difference...
Generally speaking, "Reducing" is a sign of health issues, "expanding" is a sign of health...
I see it the same as the reduced and contracted size of the stressed body, and the radiant expansion when you live a great life!

 

[thisoldtown1978]

This has been true for me. I've extended the idea of "not eating" to "avoiding" in general. Avoiding getting too hungry, getting too tired without a nap, being stationary for too long, overthinking, as well as general dietary stuff like PUFA etc. I seem to experience my best stretches of health when I finish large blocks of freelance work and I have free time again. It's like my body comes back to life.

For me, it comes down to putting your body/mind through as little stress as possible. Plenty of sleep, easily digestible foods, light-hearted attitude to work etc.

I find getting enough calories to be a rock-and-a-hard-place issue. If I skimp on calories one day, I feel terrible. Out of desperation I'd eat a big PUFA meal, which makes me feel great again in the short-term, but worse the next few days.

 

[Juan_]

My current experience is that my "confort" (I'll use this term rather than "health") depends both on foods I avoid and foods I sistematically live upon.
Some foods fall inbetween: cheese and eggs.

 

[Dobbler]

Based on my experience so far, using sups like caffeine/aspirin/niacinamide/thyroid are far more important than diet as long as your macros + micros are covered. The only exception being a very strict dietary protocol (see Danny Roddy).

Once you clean out the liver, remove most stored pufa, and fix digestion, the body appears to be much more resilient to a larger variety of foods.

Perhaps the secret to longevity is to create an organism that can easily rebound and regenerate from a less-than-optimal diet.

Shouldnt PUFA depletion fix both liver and fatty acid composition? Is low fat diet the key for this?

 

[theLaw]

Shouldnt PUFA depletion fix both liver and fatty acid composition? Is low fat diet the key for this?

Yes, but pufa depletion with diet takes longer than just cleaning the liver with Caffeine + K2 for example.

Not sure that low fat is necessary to get rid of pufa, but certainly helps to expedite the process......especially in the short term.

 

[Sunny Jack]

Based on my experience so far, using sups like caffeine/aspirin/niacinamide/thyroid are far more important than diet as long as your macros + micros are covered. The only exception being a very strict dietary protocol (see Danny Roddy).

Once you clean out the liver, remove most stored pufa, and fix digestion, the body appears to be much more resilient to a larger variety of foods.

Perhaps the secret to longevity is to create an organism that can easily rebound and regenerate from a less-than-optimal diet.

Yes, those are the lines that I have been thinking along. A short-term strict restorative diet which will enable me to better tolerate less-than-optimal foods in the future. Caffeine and aspirin are important additions which the average person is not doing. Since obtaining thyroid is currently difficult for me, I have been encouraged by Haidut's assertion that caffeine is a good surrogate. As for Niacinamide, would non-flush Niacin have similar effects?

 

[theLaw]

Yes, those are the lines that I have been thinking along. A short-term strict restorative diet which will enable me to better tolerate less-than-optimal foods in the future. Caffeine and aspirin are important additions which the average person is not doing. Since obtaining thyroid is currently difficult for me, I have been encouraged by Haidut's assertion that caffeine is a good surrogate. As for Niacinamide, would non-flush Niacin have similar effects?

Not sure about the niacin, but Niacinamide is very cheap and easily accessible.

 

[Orion]

Yes, but pufa depletion with diet takes longer than just cleaning the liver with Caffeine + K2 for example.

Have you done the K2/caffeine approach? What amounts of each did you use and for how long, any other details from the experience?

Once I get caffeine amounts up over ~300-400mg, I still get serious stress reactions. Thanks

 

[Prosper]

Your question is practically meaningless, so I'll just say: yes it is, because if you don't eat, you die.

 

[theLaw]

Have you done the K2/caffeine approach? What amounts of each did you use and for how long, any other details from the experience?

Once I get caffeine amounts up over ~300-400mg, I still get serious stress reactions. Thanks

Currently upping my intake as we speak (@600-800mg per day), but adding Niacinamide (250mg every 2hrs) + Thiamine (250mg every 3 hrs) really stopped any pronounced stress responses. Also, using fruit juice (OJ + AJ) instead of sugar seemed to help.

Started at 100mg several times per day, and found that it took about 2 weeks @ 600mg per day to feel a difference in glycogen stores which matches the studies posted by Haidut.

Now I'm slowly increasing it by 100mg every week along with K2 (30mg per day).

Increasing too quickly in the past has led to a really nasty stress reaction that can best be described as nausea.

 

[Orion]

difference in glycogen stores which matches the studies posted by Haidut.

Thanks for the feedback. What effect on sleep did you experience, one of my lasting issues, is getting over 6hrs sleep(stores deplete after 6hrs).

I am going to start testing with B1/3 with increasing caffeine slowly.

 

[paka]

I assume

it matters much more to avoid eating bad/poisonous foods (like polyunsatured fat as one popular example) than to get perfect nutrition.

2nd, getting those "super" supplements like coffee, aspirin powder, etc. and also good sleep, etc.

3rd getting good nutrition & enough calories

they're all very important.

 

[theLaw]

Thanks for the feedback. What effect on sleep did you experience, one of my lasting issues, is getting over 6hrs sleep(stores deplete after 6hrs).

I am going to start testing with B1/3 with increasing caffeine slowly.

My sleep used to be horrible (waking up 6+ times per night).

Here's what helped me:

1. No caffeine or starch or stimulating sups after 7:00pm

2. 1 glass OJ + AJ + 1000mg Taurine (to increase glyc. stores) + 250mg Niacinamide + 250mg Thiamine= 1/2hr before bed followed by activated charcoal (1-4T) + 1cup of juice right before bed

3. If this fails, then 2+Grams of Taurine works pretty well with some juice or even a large dose of salt (2t)

I tried dozens of other suggestions, but nothing worked like these. The caffeine cleaning out the liver made the biggest difference in my sleep overall, which is a bit frustrating because it takes a few weeks.

Also, my adrenaline response at the beginning with caffeine was so pronounced that my mouth would literally water and I would feel starved especially late at night, but it went away after a few weeks just as Haidut suggested.

 

[Constatine]

No, not at all. A diet rich in nutrients is more important than avoiding certain foods. By far.

 

[Sunny Jack]

No, not at all. A diet rich in nutrients is more important than avoiding certain foods. By far.

So as long as I include liver, oysters, dairy and citrus I should be okay to eat other foods? You would approach this from a 'Positive Peat' rather than a 'Negative Peat' perspective? Ergo, the primary "danger" is from what a person does not consume rather than what they do.

 

[kayumochi]

It has been 30 years since I have eaten SAD. In my experience, it is all about via negativa ...

 

[Constatine]

So as long as I include liver, oysters, dairy and citrus I should be okay to eat other foods? You would approach this from a 'Positive Peat' rather than a 'Negative Peat' perspective? Ergo, the primary "danger" is from what a person does not consume rather than what they do.

Those foods alone would probably not be enough as the backbone of your diet. Variety is very important in a diet. So enjoy yourself, try new and different foods, just try to avoid pufa as much as possible while doing so. Some pufa is fine (though of course less is always better). Restrictive diets are the enemy of good health.

 

[theLaw]

Those foods alone would probably not be enough as the backbone of your diet. Variety is very important in a diet. So enjoy yourself, try new and different foods, just try to avoid pufa as much as possible while doing so. Some pufa is fine (though of course less is always better). Restrictive diets are the enemy of good health.

Might add the following to round out a decent diet along with Liver, Eggs, Oysters, Carrots:

1. Overall Macros + Micros

Optimal diet for increasing lifespan

2. Caffeine + Aspirin + Niacinamide

3. Fresh Fruit Juice