Proviron Is Curing My PFS Symptoms But Need Some Help

[Ron J]

Be really careful with the dosage you’re going to use.

Exemestane as a standalone protocol is VERY detrimental for the brain, joints, mood, libido (not because of the compound itself, but because of lowered estrogen levels).

If you are going to do it anyways, I would advise against using it in the typical dose of 25mg/day, but rather 6.25mg every 4 days at most

Thanks for the warning. Is there any safe(r) AI?

 

[Arrade]

Thanks for the warning. Is there any safe(r) AI?

It’s perfectly safe. It’s just “suicidal” meaning if you make your estrogen too low it will take a while for your body to create new aromatase enzymes.
Arimidex is another option, probably more foolproof but worse for lipid or pro-anabolic effects

 

[haidut]

Or you could trust a doctor that makes decisions based on how the patient looks and feels instead of gauging numbers, and who adjusts based on how the patient reacts to treatment.

It would be great to find such a doctor. In my experience, and based on FDA regulations (as well as the internal legal counsel in most practices/hospitals) doctors almost always go by the numbers and very rarely stray from them out of fear of lawsuits. Maybe @Blossom can chime in with her direct observations as well. I think she works in a medical facility.

 

[RisingSun]

Thanks for the warning. Is there any safe(r) AI?

As already said and reiterated by Arrade, the compound is as good as it gets when it comes to AIs, the issue is low levels of E2

 

[RisingSun]

It would be great to find such a doctor. In my experience, and based on FDA regulations (as well as the internal legal counsel in most practices/hospitals) doctors almost always go by the numbers and very rarely stray from them out of fear of lawsuits. Maybe @Blossom can chime in with her direct observations as well. I think she works in a medical facility.

I tend to think I am such doctor.

The latest case in my practice was a healthy male aged 32 who came in with perfectly normal hormone panels and with a serum T of 640ng/dl (which usually warrants absolutely no replacement therapy).

All other bloodwork showed absolutely no health issues, however he felt sluggish, brain fogged, had poor musculature despite working out with high intensity 4 times a week and eating a calorie surplus, had visible waist fat and a very poor sleep quality.

We started him on Testosterone injections at 200mg/week, he has gained 10lbs of lean body mass in 6 weeks, has more energy, more focus ability and overall feels like he used to in his teens.

Who knows, maybe we would have found an actual underlying health conditions 10 years down the road with extensive/comprehensive medical assessments worth 100k+, or maybe he just has poor androgen receptor sensitivity and the additional T was what his body craved.

 

[Blossom]

It would be great to find such a doctor. In my experience, and based on FDA regulations (as well as the internal legal counsel in most practices/hospitals) doctors almost always go by the numbers and very rarely stray from them out of fear of lawsuits. Maybe @Blossom can chime in with her direct observations as well. I think she works in a medical facility.

Yes, the medical industry is very tightly regulated and there is a lot of justified fear of lawsuits and punishment from licensing and governing bodies and employers if one doesn't strictly adhere to the 'rules'. Some of that is good and necessary but it doesn't leave much room for individual approaches to treatment. I used to think doctors were the main problem but now I can see that it goes much deeper and they too in many ways are victims of a flawed and broken system.
With that said there are some people out there trying to change things but we are in the infancy of all that and I don't think the system will change dramatically in this lifetime. Some functional medicine practitioners can be helpful though for optimizing hormones and treating other issues in a more holistic manner. I think it's still wise to educate ourselves and be active participants rather than docile unquestioning patients in order to get the best possible care.

 

[haidut]

I tend to think I am such doctor.

The latest case in my practice was a healthy male aged 32 who came in with perfectly normal hormone panels and with a serum T of 640ng/dl (which usually warrants absolutely no replacement therapy).

All other bloodwork showed absolutely no health issues, however he felt sluggish, brain fogged, had poor musculature despite working out with high intensity 4 times a week and eating a calorie surplus, had visible waist fat and a very poor sleep quality.

We started him on Testosterone injections at 200mg/week, he has gained 10lbs of lean body mass in 6 weeks, has more energy, more focus ability and overall feels like he used to in his teens.

Who knows, maybe we would have found an actual underlying health conditions 10 years down the road with extensive/comprehensive medical assessments worth 100k+, or maybe he just has poor androgen receptor sensitivity and the additional T was what his body craved.

The world needs more people like you
Out of curiosity, did you do a thyroid panel for this person as well? Did the midsection fat bring suspicions of high cortisol? The T therapy (being antiglucocorticoid) is certainly expected to help in such cases but I am wondering how did you justify the T therapy to the insurance company given that his T was in range?

 

[HHB]

kidney/prostate/genital size are good surrogates for androgenic tone

in regards to this.. larger size = more androgenic tone?

 

[haidut]

in regards to this.. larger size = more androgenic tone?

Well, yes. Why would smaller genitals be indicative of androgenic tone?

 

[HHB]

Well, yes. Why would smaller genitals be indicative of androgenic tone?

Yep was just clarifying more so for the prostate as I thought it increased in size with age and usually there is decrease in androgenic tone with age.

 

[haidut]

Yep was just clarifying more so for the prostate as I thought it increased in size with age and usually there is decrease in androgenic tone with age.

Estrogen can also cause the prostate to swell and estrogen increases with aging due to accumulation of fat tissue.

 

[RisingSun]

Yep was just clarifying more so for the prostate as I thought it increased in size with age and usually there is decrease in androgenic tone with age.

"When it comes to sex hormones, few things are as misunderstood as the relationship of the prostate to dihydrotestosterone. The inaccurate and overly simplistic attitude that dihydrotestosterone is responsible for prostate hypertrophy, and even prostate cancer predominates amongst most people.

The real situation is, of course, much more complex. One must understand that there are marked differences between healthy prostate growth (developmental growth), prostate growth due to BPH, and cancerous prostate growth.

The first period of prostate growth, deemed developmental growth, is connected to puberty and the testicular secretion of androgens. This takes the prostate from its prepubertal dormancy to the normal sized, healthy, and functional prostate gland of an adult. During the early and mid adult years the prostate stays at this stage, despite the constant high levels of androgens in the body. However, if androgens are blocked in the body then the adult prostate will shrink in size. This can occur by castration, or even by blockade of 5-AR (recall that dihydrotestosterone is the active androgen in the prostate).

Later in life, there is often a second stage of growth. This growth is deemed benign prostate hypertrophy (BPH) and this growth occurs in a wholly different hormonal environment than that of developmental growth. Evidence is mounting that the existence of a high estrogen / androgen ratio – a condition common in older men – is highly correlated to the development of BPH.

Experimental studies have shown the inability of androgens with saturated A rings (dihydrotestosterone related) to induce an initial condition of prostate hypertrophy. These compounds are non-aromatizable. Aromatizable androgens on the other hand, such as testosterone or androstenedione can induce hyperplasic modifications of the prostate of monkeys, but these effects are reversed by the addition of an aromatase inhibitor.

So apparently, estrogen is a causative factor in BPH or, probably more accurately, estrogen in the presence of a minimum, permissive amount of androgen."


Patrick Arnold

 

[Iceman2016]

"When it comes to sex hormones, few things are as misunderstood as the relationship of the prostate to dihydrotestosterone. The inaccurate and overly simplistic attitude that dihydrotestosterone is responsible for prostate hypertrophy, and even prostate cancer predominates amongst most people.

The real situation is, of course, much more complex. One must understand that there are marked differences between healthy prostate growth (developmental growth), prostate growth due to BPH, and cancerous prostate growth.

The first period of prostate growth, deemed developmental growth, is connected to puberty and the testicular secretion of androgens. This takes the prostate from its prepubertal dormancy to the normal sized, healthy, and functional prostate gland of an adult. During the early and mid adult years the prostate stays at this stage, despite the constant high levels of androgens in the body. However, if androgens are blocked in the body then the adult prostate will shrink in size. This can occur by castration, or even by blockade of 5-AR (recall that dihydrotestosterone is the active androgen in the prostate).

Later in life, there is often a second stage of growth. This growth is deemed benign prostate hypertrophy (BPH) and this growth occurs in a wholly different hormonal environment than that of developmental growth. Evidence is mounting that the existence of a high estrogen / androgen ratio – a condition common in older men – is highly correlated to the development of BPH.

Experimental studies have shown the inability of androgens with saturated A rings (dihydrotestosterone related) to induce an initial condition of prostate hypertrophy. These compounds are non-aromatizable. Aromatizable androgens on the other hand, such as testosterone or androstenedione can induce hyperplasic modifications of the prostate of monkeys, but these effects are reversed by the addition of an aromatase inhibitor.

So apparently, estrogen is a causative factor in BPH or, probably more accurately, estrogen in the presence of a minimum, permissive amount of androgen."


Patrick Arnold

RisingSun or anyone else who has first hand experience, do you know of anyone who has successfully reversed their bph/enlarged prostate back to pre bph size and functioning without 5AR inhibitors or alpha blockers?

I ask because I'm 45 but have been having reduced urinary flow (slow stream) for the last few years. It's not causing any major problems yet but I'd like to address it asap before I start having more serious problems being able to go.

 

[Mito]

I think functional results are usually more important than serum levels, so surrogates for tissue levels and activity of androgens, estrogens and progesterone are preferable.

Estrogen can also cause the prostate to swell and estrogen increases with aging due to accumulation of fat tissue.

Is PSA a surrogate for tissue levels of estrogen in the prostate?

 

[haidut]

Is PSA a surrogate for tissue levels of estrogen in the prostate?

I don't know if it is a surrogate for prostate estrogen specifically but estrogen does elevate PSA. Estrone sulfate (E1S) is probably a more reliable metric for whole-body estrogen reserves.
Test For Estrogenic Activity And Prostate Cancer
Test For Estrogenic Activity And Prostate Cancer

 

[RisingSun]

RisingSun or anyone else who has first hand experience, do you know of anyone who has successfully reversed their bph/enlarged prostate back to pre bph size and functioning without 5AR inhibitors or alpha blockers?

I ask because I'm 45 but have been having reduced urinary flow (slow stream) for the last few years. It's not causing any major problems yet but I'd like to address it asap before I start having more serious problems being able to go.

I only know peole who reduced they bph by NOT using 5ar.

Blocking 5ar may lead to increased estrogens as there is no dht to oppose e2 formation, which contributes to prostate issues including bph

 

[Iceman2016]

I only know peole who reduced they bph by NOT using 5ar.

Understood. So what specifically did those specific individuals do to reverse their BPH?

 

[RisingSun]

Understood. So what specifically did those specific individuals do to reverse their BPH?

Exercise, eat paleo.

You don’t want any form of harmful gut bacteria or candida triggering inflammation.

And high sugar / grain diet triggers than kind of bacteria + inflammation

 

[Iceman2016]

Exercise, eat paleo.

You don’t want any form of harmful gut bacteria or candida triggering inflammation.

And high sugar / grain diet triggers than kind of bacteria + inflammation

Thanks.

 

[Ron J]

Be really careful with the dosage you’re going to use.

Exemestane as a standalone protocol is VERY detrimental for the brain, joints, mood, libido (not because of the compound itself, but because of lowered estrogen levels).

If you are going to do it anyways, I would advise against using it in the typical dose of 25mg/day, but rather 6.25mg every 4 days at most

I got some aromasin. Do you think 6.25mg every 4 days is enough to treat gyno? I'm also taking 2mg of androsterone and alleged stanolone 5-8mg.