Picking Nails & Skin Around Nails

[jaywills]

Do any of you lovely folk experience this?/ Have you experienced this?
It is something that I have experienced for as long as I remember; I seem to do it subconsciously - particularly when i am anxious.
By the time I realize what I am doing i am in agony.
It seems the more coffee I drink the worse it becomes.
Any ideas/remedies/thoughts?

 

[Blossom]

post 114916 Do any of you lovely folk experience this?/ Have you experienced this?
It is something that I have experienced for as long as I remember; I seem to do it subconsciously - particularly when i am anxious.
By the time I realize what I am doing i am in agony.
It seems the more coffee I drink the worse it becomes.
Any ideas/remedies/thoughts?

Yes, I've had this off and on for years. It started when I was on vyvanse for chronic fatigue syndrome years ago. I connect it with anxiety just like you so I try to switch over to massaging my cuticles when I catch myself doing it and reflect on what I might be anxious about. I think I have an over sensitive threat response in all honesty but I'm sort of glad to have an obvious built in anxiety indicator! I know psychiatry has a name for it but I prefer not to medicalize or pathologize everything about myself so I just view it as a reminder to me that I'm getting carried away with stress/anxiety. I wish I had a quick and easy remedy to suggest but for now I just try to stop it when I catch myself, massage my cuticles and if possible apply slow breathing, meditation, listen to beautiful music, take a walk in nature, relax in the sun or basically anything I find to be self soothing. Perhaps we will get more input. I've read that it occurs in a small percentage of the population.

 

[jaywills]

Thanks blossom for outlining your experiences thus far. I find it really interesting that there could be a proportion of the population predisposed to it. I know that I have tried many things to curtail it to no avail. Further, when you note that you believe you have a heightened response to threat, I can see similarities in myself. It's one of those things that could be quite easily related to serotonin, but at the precise moment that is just sheer speculation. If I was to throw my 2 cents at it, and not a cent more as I need all I can for pressed OJ, I would think it is linked to estrogen prolactin and the whole stress cascade. My nails seemed to improve in terms of growth on methylene blue but unfortunately I have picked that progress away. Looks like my nails will always be suboptimal unless any other hero can provide a nailed on way to help?

 

[barefooter]

I've done this pretty much as long as I can remember since I was a child, and I'm 31 and still can't kick it. I think it makes sense if you frame it how Peat talks about addiction. It's a learned response to try and stabilize you during times of anxiety/stress. In some ways, you can consider it a creative solution to excess anxiety, but it is not a good one, in that it's self destructive. It must have a dampening effect on anxiety symptoms, which is what causes the addictive nature of it. I think becoming conscious of it, and working on other ways to control anxiety is probably the way to get over it.

Unfortunately, when I was young, my parents would just tell me to stop doing it, which is a negative shaming and has lasting psychological impacts. I'm sure this is true of many with self destructive habits. What we really need, is those around us to ask why we do it, and try and help us find better solutions.

 

[Blossom]

post 114932 it makes sense if you frame it how Peat talks about addiction. It's a learned response to try and stabilize you during times of anxiety/stress.

I come from a family background with addiction and have wondered about this connection. My mom bites her nails which seems similar and makes me wonder if imprinting is involved.

post 114929 would think it is linked to estrogen prolactin and the whole stress casca

This definitely seems plausible!
I've also wondered about the connection with learned helplessness. Perhaps part of it is a reaction to a feeling of inescapable stress that becomes a habitual pattern even when there is no actual threat similar to a PTSD type situation where we become hypervigilant?

post 114932
Unfortunately, when I was young, my parents would just tell me to stop doing it, which is a negative shaming and has lasting psychological impacts. I'm sure this is true of many with self destructive habits. What we really need, is those around us to ask why we do it, and try and help us find better solutions.

I'm sorry that happened to you barefooter. That approach seems counterproductive to say the least. I think the world could use a bit more kindness and compassion in general but especially when dealing with vulnerable and impressionable children. As a parent I can say your parents probably didn't mean to shame you. I tried my best in parenting and yet there are many things I would have handled differently if I had known then what I know now.

The picking issue seems like a 'chicken or the egg' situation. Something is certainly out of balance and stress seems involved in perpetuating the behavior/compulsion.

How about if we share our personal experiences here if we notice anything that seems to improve it?!? :P

 

[barefooter]

post 115005 I'm sorry that happened to you barefooter. That approach seems counterproductive to say the least. I think the world could use a bit more kindness and compassion in general but especially when dealing with vulnerable and impressionable children. As a parent I can say your parents probably didn't mean to shame you. I tried my best in parenting and yet there are many things I would have handled differently if I had known then what I know now.

Thanks for the compassion. I forgive my parents, it's not like they had a clue about any of this stuff or how to deal with issues that I had. They did their best, and overall I felt loved and cared for. I'm sure they were going through their own stress and health issues anyway. These things are multi-generational too, and they likely had unmet emotional and nutritional needs growing up

post 115005 How about if we share our personal experiences here if we notice anything that seems to improve it?!?

I'll keep you updated if I make any progress. I think for me two things have to happen. First, I need to be feeling physically and mentally very good. I think self control and will power are very tied to health status, and if you're not feeling well it's very hard to break habits. And second, I need to make a very strong conscious effort to stop. I think my picking is such a long standing habit, that it won't just go away on its own when I'm feeling good. In fact, I have very low anxiety now, and I'm picking as much as ever. The two times in my adult life that I was able to stop for a while (maybe a month), I was feeling excellent, and I made a strong effort to stop. It looks like it's time to try again, now that I feel I'm getting healthy and can muster up some willpower.

 

[James IV]

It seems like you have your answer already? If the problem get worse with coffee and anxiety, then it is likely a stress (adrenaline/cortisol) response. Lowering your stress should alleviate the issue.

 

[ErinElizabeth]

I've never picked at my nails/cuticles but I pick at the skin on my lips in what I think is likely the same way. I think I was probably 12 when someone first asked me why I did it which was the first time I REALIZED I did it, but I know it wasn't new.

I typically pick at (or sometimes chew on) my lips when I'm reading or watching something. It's not anxiety related for me (I don't often experience anxiety). About 5 years ago a particularly bad episode that left my lips rather spectacularly damaged and I decided to make a real effort to stop. I still catch myself doing it on a daily basis but I NOTICE it and I usually notice it fast enough to keep the damage from being significant. Sometimes even when I realize I'm doing it it's still hard to stop but the most effective deterrent for me is to ALWAYS have something in my hands when I'm reading/watching (my two worst times). Typically for me that is knitting, but even just a lump of silly putty to squish around keeps my hands busy and prevents the picking.

I have no idea what the mechanism is that triggers this kind of self damaging behavior and I don't know how to stop it but there are things we can try to make it better. I'd say try to recognize the times that you tend to do it the most and try to find some way to otherwise occupy your hands during those times.

 

[SQu]

I do this too. Also while I don't touch my lips I do have to keep them covered in lip balm and it's a similarly compulsive thing. I tried stopping both at various times. I restarted lip balm deliberately in spite of breaking the compulsion because my lips looked flaky and wrinkly (I was in my 20s at the time) I restarted picking around my nails because I just couldn't ignore the dry snagging skin and also couldn't remove the problem without triggering the compulsion. The picking has migrated more to the base of the thumb and the pads of the fingertips. I'm interested in these things from the compulsive anxious point of view too. I have noticed many people do a very mild version of this , may be more common than we think

 

[tara]

Not denyng the possibility of general stress/anxiety habits being involved, but I wonder whether there could sometimes be some specific mineral deficiency involved too. I've heard this about nail biting. I've never bitten or picked at nails, but like SQu, I used to go for the finger pads many years ago. Grew out of it by aadulthood. I can imagine I might have been hungry for something.

 

[Blossom]

I ran across some information in a link @Simonsays
THE BEST Of TIMES, THE WORST Of TIMES
posted and apparently there are lots of people with complex PTSD that pick their skin too. Some sufferers consider it a compulsion and some a mild form of self harm. I realize I go through cycles of having this symptom so there is no doubt that for me it is related to stress. I can be fine for a while but if something triggers an emotional flashback and I begin to feel unsafe and vulnerable like I did as a child it will start back up. Although I haven't found a quick and easy fix and I doubt there is one understanding the symptom better and knowing there are others that struggle with this too is helpful for me. In a way it's kinda nice to have such an obvious signal that my stress levels are getting too high.
ETA: I corrected this to read complex PTSD instead of chronic PTSD.

 

[Simonsays]

Me too Blossom me too, always picked the cuticles never nails I never realised it was related to CPSTD. I think ive finally got a diagnosis,, thought it was BPD/Narc, but CPSTD makes much more sense.

 

[narouz]

Couple of angles come to mind.
I've been noticing I have a lot more crap around my cuticle than in the past.
So I push the cuticle back and scrape away the skin/whatever stuck to the nail.
Also just more flaky/peeling skin around nails.
But I seem to need to do that pretty often.

One thing--tara may remember this better than me 'cause I remember her posting on the same thread--
on the nail in the cuticle area there is that little sliver of whiter colored cuticle.
Can't remember the name now.

But seems like the thread postulated or referenced the notion
that the more that sliver is covered by the cuticle
the more likely one has some hypothyroid issue...was that it...?

Anyhow:
I've been wrestling with a couple of things lately,
and they are likely inter-related:
-hypothyroidism ineffectively treated (by no T3 or bad T3 or too much T4 in my NDT or...somethin' :>) )
-fungal overgrowth in my gut

Now...once one starts going down the "fungal overgrowth" road,
other culprits are thinkable--magnesium deficiency to name one.

So...just my 2 cents, but you might consider some of those things.

 

[Simonsays]

Narouz,, does the hypothyroidism come from poor liver/gut health, or the other way round , ie treat the gut/liver health and the hypo improves ,, or take t3/NDt and the gut/liver then improves??

 

[narouz]

Narouz,, does the hypothyroidism come from poor liver/gut health, or the other way round , ie treat the gut/liver health and the hypo improves ,, or take t3/NDt and the gut/liver then improves??

Short answer is: really, I don't know.
But, personally, I've been hypothesizing--with some strong evidence--
that my hypothyroidism may be rooted in a long-term fungal overgrowth:
the fungi mess up digestion, disturb the gut, create endotoxins and other toxic by-products,
which get into the liver via the portal vein (or maybe through leaky gut seepage),
that makes the liver unable to detoxify estrogen and other stuff,
having many bad effects,
but one of them hypothyroidism.

Or it might be the other way around:
hypothyroidism causing bad digestion which opens the way for fungal overgrowth.

I am currently trying to unravel exactly this puzzle.
I was a bad experimenter (as usual :>) ):
I added two variables at the same time:
1. I stopped taking any T4 and went to straight T3
2. I took up a pretty hardcore anti-fungal regime involving Nystatin,
other anti-fungals, enzymes, probiotics etc.

That resulted in many fairly dramatic improvements to chronic problems.
One was I need far less thyroid supplement
and my thyroid/metabolic function improved.
Another was my chronic tongue-coating all but went away.
Also my very serious lower-back ache/hip ache improved dramatically.
Other stuff too I won't go into here.

But what happened when I introduced those two variables above?
Did knocking down the fungus help my thyroid/metabolism?
Or did removing T4 help my thryoid and that in turn helped diminish the fungi?
Or some of both?

I really don't know.

 

[Simonsays]

Thanks, i know youve probably been asked before, but did you cut out starches, sugar, fructose???

 

[Simonsays]

I should have said ive suffered coated tongue, tonsil stones, sugar craving for years. Plus now im getting rosacea, estrogen dominance signs, but i think ive always been over adrenalised,,, i take t4 many many years but i dont think its ever worked properly as my liver/gut health i now realise never good

 

[narouz]

Thanks, i know youve probably been asked before, but did you cut out starches, sugar, fructose???

I have experimented with that and many other approaches.
In general, and from reading about others' experiences/diets/Candida protocols,
my thinking now is that it is probably unlikely that trying to starve the fungi
by cutting out carbs
will work--because we need those foods for our health and metabolism too.

My most recent strategy has been to use the things I noted above,
and I also used the tactic of sortuv flooding my gut with those substance
while doing intermittent fasts--after waking not eating for like 6-8hrs.
Also varying the different anti-fungal substances and using pretty high doses.
And, just very recently, I've dabbled in intense resistant starch supplementing
following those fasts (see the Gestalt Reality website about the resistant starch thing).

 

[churchmouth]

@narouz did this path combating fungus lead to success?

 

[YourUniverse]

I catch myself picking the skin around my nails now. It corresponds with a change in my diet towards more fat and less carbs (specifically, more eggs with less OJ). Maybe this does mean it has to do with anxiety? Of note is I have less appetite on less calories, but maybe more anxiety, from less stress-neutralizing sugar?