Need Source That States Why Opiate Medications Are Bad

[Ben]

My mom is on chronic pain medication. She does not believe that it is unhealthy. I plan to try to help her replace a portion of it with aspirin, epsom salt baths, etc. Aside from the lengthy RP article about endorphins which does not specifically address pain medication, does anyone have a source which states how health-wracking these medications are?

 

[pboy]

I was re listening to an interview yesterday where a guy calls in and asks about opiates. Peat is surprised he seemed to have adjusted well and asks about side effects but doesn't get into detail. They mention how opiates slow bowel movements and GI transit as a whole, so I suspect, they might be anti thyroid, but usually things that are so anti inflammatory also have some kidn of benefit. It would seem they might lower serotonin also casue usually serotonin causes irritation in the bowel, but I might be wrong. If I had to guess, they just slow metabolism which in turn slows growth and repair as well, but chronic pain is like a constant burden of potential estrogen production, so its a toss up. I wouldn't know what a better choice would be. I know caffeine has anti inflammatory pain relieving effects, no where as strong, and cannabis also, however you have to be careful with amount of cannabis. In small amounts its stimulating but in even slightly higher it also slows thyroid a bit, and therefore GI transit and digestion. Maybe aspirin could help, but im kind of weary of it and don't have experience. Im quite interested in opiates action also just form a curiosity standpoint, ive never actually used any opiates other than I guess cough medicine as a kid and I think I took vicoden when I was late teens, while drinking, and it made me yack and have to pass out lol, but the variables were all over the place and I wasn't even aware of anything like I am now back then

 

[haidut]

My mom is on chronic pain medication. She does not believe that it is unhealthy. I plan to try to help her replace a portion of it with aspirin, epsom salt baths, etc. Aside from the lengthy RP article about endorphins which does not specifically address pain medication, does anyone have a source which states how health-wracking these medications are?

He says that opiates increase histamine:
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/ca ... ergy.shtml

"...Decisions about pain control usually disregard the effects of the drugs on tumor growth and general vitality--for example, the opiates stimulate histamine release, which increases inflammation and tumor growth."

I think he is right on the histamine issues. Drug addicts and alcoholics get the characteristic "histamine flush" of the face and neck when they get their fix.

 

[jyb]

I don't know how easy it would be to transit from chronic pain medication to just...aspirin and epsom baths as you say. Maybe gradually over time, these measures can help to decrease the amount of medication needed.

I think it's a pretty important question given that those pain medication are used a lot.

 

[Ben]

Thanks pboy and haidut.

Jyb, I also doubt replacing them completely would be plausible. I meant reducing the dosage.

I kind of forgot about marijuana, but if I were to put forth some special effort to legalize it for medical usage in that state, it would still take 2 years until it's on the ballot. So it's not an option right now. Besides, I think that it's neither healthy nor unhealthy in reasonable amounts, and aspirin or epsom salt baths are almost always so I would still push her towards healthy things.

 

[jyb]

I wonder what earlier cultures did for pain, when someone broke something or if the back hurts as in old age.

 

[haidut]

Ray has said that progesterone is highly anaesthetic and that's what allows women to endure the pain of childbirth. I think some people on the forum use Ray's Progest-E for pain management and it seems to have worked for them. I don't know how severe their pain was and how effective progesterone is, but if it works it could be a supplement with multiple benefits for your mom.

 

[tara]

Progesterone would probably be worth a try.
Coffee can make aspirin more effective for pain relief. If it's to be regular, remember the K2 supplement.
Depending on the source of pain, there might be other things that would help with the underlying condition that might help with the pain?

 

[aguilaroja]

My mom is on chronic pain medication. She does not believe that it is unhealthy. I plan to try to help her replace a portion of it...does anyone have a source which states how health-wracking these medications are?

I am guessing the question relates to Dr. Peat's views about opiates and decline, rather than well known opiate side effects including "sedation, dizziness, nausea, vomiting, constipation, physical dependence, tolerance, and respiratory depression":

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18443635

If your mother gets relief from medications and has minimal side effects, it might be helpful to give thought to what measures in her case would support metabolism generally. Using the "usual" cues-symptoms, pulse, temperature, etc. are sometimes a good guideposts even for pain relief.

As Tara mentioned, even in dogmatic medical practice, "chronic pain" can be an over-general practitioner term that omits specific regions and conditions. Conventional investigation can be pursued for data, even if different conclusions and approaches follow. Some widespread issues, such as fibromyalgia, IMNHE largely reflect low metabolism.

Excuse me for referring to my previous post:

viewtopic.php?p=54993#p54993

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/alzheimers.shtml
"Endorphins: Stress induced, laterally specific, involved in estrogen action, antagonized by naloxone and similar anti-opiate drugs. I have proposed that the endorphins can cause or sustain some of the symptoms of aging. Naloxone appears to be a useful treatment for senility. E. Roberts, Ann. N. Y. Acad. Sci. 396, 165, 1982; B. Reisberg, et al., N. Engl. J. Med. 308, 721, 1983."

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/alzheimers2.shtml
"Estrogen and the endorphins act together in many ways (including the behavior of estrus), and naloxone (the antagonist of morphine and the endorphins) raises body temperature and in other ways opposes estrogen. Naloxone has been found to improve the symptoms of demented people, and I have seen it quickly, and dramatically, improve the mental clarity of a 60 year old woman who had used estrogen. It, like clonidine (the anti-adrenaline drug), is a good candidate for controlling the hot flashes and other symptoms of menopause."\

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/ca ... rone.shtml

"Naloxone or naltrexone, which blocks the actions of the endorphins and morphine, is being used to inhibit the growth of various kinds of cancer, including breast cancer and prostate cancer. Leptin (which is promoted by estrogen) is a hormone produced by fat cells, and it, like estrogen, activates the POMC-related endorphin stress system. The endorphins activate histamine, another promoter of inflammation and cell division."

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/es ... ress.shtml

"Naloxone, the anti-endorphin, has been found to reverse some of the cumulative effects of stress, restoring some pituitary and ovarian function, and it promotes recovery after brain injury; in a variety of ways, it corrects some of estrogen's toxic effects."

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/ho ... ging.shtml

"One of the animal "models" used to study hot flashes is morphine withdrawal.  The model seems relevant to human hot flashes, because estrogen can stop the morphine withdrawal flushing, and estrogen's acute and chronic effects on the brain-pituitary-ovary system involve the endorphins and the opioidergic nerves (Merchenthaler, et al., 1998; Holinka, et al., 2008).
In young rats, sudden morphine withdrawal caused by injecting the anti-opiate naloxone, causes the tail skin to flush, with a temperature increase of a few degrees, and causes the core body temperature to fall slightly. However, old animals respond to the withdrawal in two different ways. One group responded to the naloxone with an exaggerated flushing and decrease of core temperature. The other group of old rats, which already had a lower body temperature, didn't flush at all (Simpkins, 1994)."

 

[DaveFoster]

He says that opiates increase histamine:
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/ca ... ergy.shtml

"...Decisions about pain control usually disregard the effects of the drugs on tumor growth and general vitality--for example, the opiates stimulate histamine release, which increases inflammation and tumor growth."

I think he is right on the histamine issues. Drug addicts and alcoholics get the characteristic "histamine flush" of the face and neck when they get their fix.

Wow. This explains the rash I got directly after introducing raloxifene, which raises peripheral beta-endorphin concentrations. Getting some naltrexone ASAP.

 

[TheHound]

has she considered kratom?

 

[allblues]

Would any substance showing opioid activity necessarily have some detrimental effect?
Mainly concerned about tianeptine having some opioid agonism activity.

 

[haidut]

Would any substance showing opioid activity necessarily have some detrimental effect?
Mainly concerned about tianeptine having some opioid agonism activity.

Agonists of the cannabinoid receptor also have pain-killer effects. One of the most potent agonists of that receptor is oleamide, and Peat has mentioned it favorably in some of his articles.
Oleamide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It will also trigger the blissful feeling of course, just like weed but without the anti-androgenic and pro-serotonergic effects. You can buy oleamide pretty cheaply on Amazon.

 

[DaveFoster]

@haidut

Do you know any articles where Peat touches upon his thoughts on the endocannabinoid system? I can't find any myself.

In your PUFA primer, you quote cannabinoids being associated with linoleic acid concentrations and obesity, so wouldn't an CB1 agonist be undesirable?

 

[haidut]

@haidut

Do you know any articles where Peat touches upon his thoughts on the endocannabinoid system? I can't find any myself.

In your PUFA primer, you quote cannabinoids being associated with linoleic acid concentrations and obesity, so wouldn't an CB1 agonist be undesirable?

He mentioned some of the omega-9 acids in a positive light and acting on the cannabinoid/bliss receptor.
Aspirin, brain, and cancer
"...The fetus produces saturated fats such as palmitic acid, and the monounsaturated fat, oleic acid, which can be turned into the Mead acid, ETrA (5,8,11-eicosatrienoic acid), and its derivatives, which are anti inflammatory, and some of which act on the "bliss receptor," or the cannibinoid receptor. In the adult, tissues such as cartilage, which are protected by their structure or composition from the entry of exogenous fats, contain the Mead acid despite the presence of linoleic acid in the blood."

So, a simple agonism of CB1 alone is probably not making a substance dangerous. I think the effects of weed are a lot more complex than simply activating CB1. THC itself is serotonergic and anti-androgenic, so that may be why Peat is not very fond of weed, but he probably also recognizes the complexity of its effects as shown in this human study of it lowering prolactin.
THC On Serum Cortisol And Prolactin

 

[haidut]

Wow. This explains the rash I got directly after introducing raloxifene, which raises peripheral beta-endorphin concentrations. Getting some naltrexone ASAP.

Btw, FDA just added a few extra black-box warnings for opiates and one of them is increasing the risk of serotonin syndrome when taken with SSRI drugs.
http://www.painmedicinenews.com/Web...Warnings-Safety-Labeling-for-IR-Opioids/35699
"...These warnings include the risk for serotonin syndrome resulting from opioid drug interactions with antidepressants and migraine-specific medications in the triptan class. Serotonin syndrome occurs when high levels of the chemical build up in the brain, resulting in toxicity. Signs and symptoms of serotonin syndrome include agitation, hallucinations, rapid heart rate, fever, excessive sweating, shivering or shaking, muscle twitching or stiffness, trouble with coordination, and/or nausea, vomiting or diarrhea. Onset of symptoms ranges from several hours to a few days after taking an opioid along with another medicine that affects serotonin; dose increases also can trigger serotonin syndrome."

So, opioids either inhibit MAO-A or act like an SSRI themselves, both of which are obviously undesirable effects. The FDA warning also indicates that drugs like sumatriptan are also serotonergic and dangerous. The pharma industry has denied for decades that the triptans are serotonergic, opting instead for the more nebulous "mixed agonist-antagonist" or the fancier Serotonin Modulator and Stimulator (SMS) label. But if something can cause serotonin syndrome its effects are largely serotonergic.

 

[DaveFoster]

Btw, FDA just added a few extra black-box warnings for opiates and one of them is increasing the risk of serotonin syndrome when taken with SSRI drugs.
http://www.painmedicinenews.com/Web...Warnings-Safety-Labeling-for-IR-Opioids/35699
"...These warnings include the risk for serotonin syndrome resulting from opioid drug interactions with antidepressants and migraine-specific medications in the triptan class. Serotonin syndrome occurs when high levels of the chemical build up in the brain, resulting in toxicity. Signs and symptoms of serotonin syndrome include agitation, hallucinations, rapid heart rate, fever, excessive sweating, shivering or shaking, muscle twitching or stiffness, trouble with coordination, and/or nausea, vomiting or diarrhea. Onset of symptoms ranges from several hours to a few days after taking an opioid along with another medicine that affects serotonin; dose increases also can trigger serotonin syndrome."

So, opioids either inhibit MAO-A or act like an SSRI themselves, both of which are obviously undesirable effects. The FDA warning also indicates that drugs like sumatriptan are also serotonergic and dangerous. The pharma industry has denied for decades that the triptans are serotonergic, opting instead for the more nebulous "mixed agonist-antagonist" or the fancier Serotonin Modulator and Stimulator (SMS) label. But if something can cause serotonin syndrome its effects are largely serotonergic.

Thanks for the update, haidut. I definitely felt some mild symptoms resembling that of serotonin syndrome when taking raloxifene (excessive sweating, mood swings, nausea, ADD symptoms, irritability, and reactivity). Any of the SERMs mimic estrogen at least partly, so they're horribly toxic drugs.

 

[allblues]

Agonists of the cannabinoid receptor also have pain-killer effects. One of the most potent agonists of that receptor is oleamide, and Peat has mentioned it favorably in some of his articles.
Oleamide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It will also trigger the blissful feeling of course, just like weed but without the anti-androgenic and pro-serotonergic effects. You can buy oleamide pretty cheaply on Amazon.

This is interesting, but my main concern is substances/meds showing opioid activity, like tianeptine or mianserin as per Dave's
perfect peat-drug thread.

Would opioid activity in and of itself imply some negative physiological effects, like histamine release?

When i take about 30 mg-ish of tianeptine, i get warm and fuzzy in the face.
Feels nice, but if that's histamine it's gonna be more difficult to enjoy.

 

[haidut]

This is interesting, but my main concern is substances/meds showing opioid activity, like tianeptine or mianserin as per Dave's
perfect peat-drug thread.

Would opioid activity in and of itself imply some negative physiological effects, like histamine release?

When i take about 30 mg-ish of tianeptine, i get warm and fuzzy in the face.
Feels nice, but if that's histamine it's gonna be more difficult to enjoy.

Yes, opioid agonism is estrogenic, histaminergic, and serotonergic. I don't know if tianeptine does all of these things as there other Peat-friendly substances like DHEA and progesterone that are also agonists at some opioid receptors and I don't think they increase histamine. It's probably related to the dose as well.

 

[squanch]

Since nobody has mentioned it yet:
Opiates are also generally immunosuppressive

Researchers discover how opiates cause immunosuppression
Opioid therapy and immunosuppression: a review. - PubMed - NCBI