Is Ray Peat Wrong On Starches Or I Am Missing Something?

[vb2005]

So Peat says if you have digestion issues - you have to be zero starch because starch will feed sibo bacteria on the other side we have this:
https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2016nl/apr/160400.pdf

and also a book from Norman Robbilard called fast tract digestion where he his advice regarding sibo is to eat white rice and other starches with HIGH glycemic index - because white rice is working somehow like elemental diet / elemental diet is proven to cure sibo for 2 -3 weeks/ - the higher the glycemic index - less chance for bacteria to ferment the food - for example glucose will be rapidly absorbed.
What i think is that Peat dont make distinction between amylose and amylopektin starches and - amylopektin is rapidly absorbed. Also when you do the sibo breath test you have to do preparation diet of only meat, fish,eggs and white rice - so this again confirms the idea that starched dont reach bacteria in the small intestine or even if they reach it they stay there only several minutes.

 

[EIRE24]

@Westside PUFAs is the man to answer this.

 

[Lisbon boy]

You are missing something...

 

[EIRE24]

You are missing something...

Wouldn't think so

 

[sele]

"The true method of knowledge is experiment". - William Blake
Why not try methods other than RP's and give us an update?
We'd like to learn.

 

[Velve921]

No matter what type of starch it is...all give me sub maximal energy and optimistic thinking. When all my athletes eliminate high starchy foods they notice immediate change in low blood sugar.

As Sele quoted though, 'true method of knowledge is experiment'

 

[Westside PUFAs]

In a Peat purist sense, a purist Peat diet would have no starch. But it also wouldn't have gummy bears and muscle meats because in a Peat purist sense, gelatin should come from oxtail, not gummy bears, and protein should come mostly from low fat dairy, not anti-thyroid, iron-overloaded muscle meats. Yet people still eat commercial food-dyed gummy bears and muscle meats every day while "Peating." So you should look at the whole diet, not just "starch." It depends on the type of starch you're talking about and more importantly, it depends on the individual. With that said, it's not that he's wrong about starch because he's said and written both positive things and negative things about it and other foods, like similar to things he's said about whole milk. There are both pro quotes and anti quotes. There are about two quotes on whole milk where nothing is said about the potential fattening effect but then there are about six quotes mentioning the fattening effect. He's written some things about starch in the form of "cereals," grains and beans as being poor forms but potato, white rice and masa harina being better forms. He once favored oats and toast in "Nutrition For Women" but doesn't care for those now as much. Remember that he once thought mushrooms were toxic and then wrote a whole newsletter about how great they are after coming across new research.

He recently said this so he's not 100% anti-starch, and I would argue that from this quote, if you don't do well with starch then like Danny Roddy used to say about milk, it's not the starch, it's you. Roddy used to say, "it's not the milk, it's you.."

A caller asked Peat about how much saturated fat is optimal and he said "I think it’s best to get as much sugar and starch in your diet, preferably sugars from fruit and milk.."

Look at how angry people got at me just for posting that quote by Peat. They act like I found someone with a similar voice and recorded him and had him say that. The title of the thread was even changed because they claim it was "misleading," but all I did was quote Peat. But yet that's still misleading...

You have to be able to see through peoples biases.

Sugars From Fruit And Milk Vs. Starches

With Peat's view on glucose being very important and anti-stress, I take that as starch being extremely valuable. Starch is glucose. I don't think fructose and lactose have the same effects for me. I still do consume fructose and lactose, but I consume way more glucose from starch.

As far as bacteria, that's a whole other subject but I think one reason that people have problems with starch is because the bacteria they get from dairy or other things they eat often don't mix well with starch.

.

 

[EIRE24]

In a Peat purist sense, a purist Peat diet wold have no starch. But it also wouldn't have gummy bears and muscle meats because in a Peat purist sense gelatin should come from oxtail, not gummy bears and protein should come mostly from low fat dairy, not anti-thyroid, iron-overloaded muscle meats. Yet people still eat commercial food-dyed gummy bears and muscle meats every day while "Peating." So you should look at the whole diet, not just "starch." With that said, it's not that he's wrong about starch because he's said and written both positive things and negative things about it and many foods, like similar to things he's said about whole milk, there are both pro quotes and anti quotes. There are about two quotes on whole milk where nothing is said about the potential fattening effect but then there are about 5 quotes mentioning the fattening effect. It depends on the type of starch you're talking about and more importantly, it depends on the individual. He's written some things about starch in the form of "cereals," grains and beans as being poor forms but potato, white rice and masa marina being better forms. He once favored oats and toast in "Nutrition For Women" but doesn't care for those now as much. Remember that he once though mushrooms were toxic and then wrote a whole newsletter about how great they are after coming across new research.

He recently said this so he's not 100% anti-starch, and I would argue that from this quote, if you don't do well with starch then like Danny Roddy used to say about milk, it's you, not the starch. Roddy used to say, "it's not the milk, it's you.."

A caller asked him about how much saturated fat is optimal and he said "I Think It’s Best To Get As Much Sugar And Starch In Your Diet, preferably sugars from fruit and milk."

Look at how angry people got at me just for posting that quote by Peat. They act like I found someone with a similar voice and recorded him and had him say that. The title of the thread was even changed because they claim it was "misleading," but all I did was quote Peat. But yet that's still misleading...

You have to be able to see through peoples bias.

Sugars From Fruit And Milk Vs. Starches

As far as bacteria, that's a whole other subject but I think one reason that people have problems with starch is because the bacteria they get from dairy don't mix well with starch.

.

I'd agree with the bacteria theory. Or that the person has unfavourable overgrowth and the starch is feeding that?

 

[member 2106]

Whatever the case, cutting out starch completely is, in the end, too restrictive for all but the most dedicated of us. I think there's value in reducing starch intake, especially if it's affecting mood or digestion. But no-starch-ever sounds miserable to me, and I'm now going to get my roasted sweet potatoes out of the oven.

 

[Forsythia]

Well said WSPufa and waldenpond. I'm looking forward to dinner with a big serving of rice....along with my carrot salad.

 

[jitsmonkey]

I have personally spoken to Ray about this because I often would find that potatoes or white rice would restore my mood, pulse and temps faster and more reliably than sugar
If you tolerate starch well he would tell you its fine to eat. He would ideally prefer the bulk of your carbohydrate to not be starch but if that is tolerable AND you're benefiting from it he'd tell you its fine.
His comments re: starch and gut are accurate. Some people at certain points of recovery or disease don't do well with them.
In reference to the starch improving my mood, temps and pulse faster he said the starch gets delivered faster hence my experience.
As I've gotten healthier I haven't seen this disparity as much and my diet has included less but not no starch.
At the end of the day the only "Peaty" thing to do its try it.... if you're monitoring mood, pulse, temp, digestive distress, etc.... you'll know everything you need to know.

 

[sele]

It's not only the bacteria...
Real reasons why starch is on the naughty list.

 

[jitsmonkey]

Everything listed on FPS re: starch is accurate.
and Ray if given the choice would prefer less/no starch
But The only reason not to eat starch is you're not benefitting from it.
Ray does not say "don't eat starch". There are reasons to eat it and reasons not to
Context matters its not a binary question (or at least it shouldn't be)

 

[tara]

The only reason not to eat starch is you're not benefitting from it.
Ray does not say "don't eat starch". There are reasons to eat it and reasons not to
Context matters its not a binary question (or at least it shouldn't be)

+1

 

[Gl;itch.e]

Whatever the case, cutting out starch completely is, in the end, too restrictive for all but the most dedicated of us.

It does make sense to prioritise fruit WHEN FRESH INSEASON RIPPENED FRUIT IS AVAILABLE. But if its not it makes no sense to restrict something as nutritious as Potatoes to make up for the shortfall when fruit isn't in season.

 

[schultz]

It's not that all starch is incompatible with good health, it's that quality fruit is better. If you don't have access to good fruit, starch can fill in. It's the poor mans fruit.

If you're going to say that Ray said something, please provide a quote or something so we can discuss it directly.

 

[vb2005]

No matter what type of starch it is...all give me sub maximal energy and optimistic thinking. When all my athletes eliminate high starchy foods they notice immediate change in low blood sugar.

As Sele quoted though, 'true method of knowledge is experiment'

Are you and you athletes from Europe? - i read somewhere that at least 30% of europeans have fructose malabsorption - i am from Europe and i remember the time when we were eating bananas and oranges only on Christmas. On some forums i see people that failed to heal their gut on a diet like 80/10/10 and then had success with diet like The starch solution - this is very interesting for me because in order to digest starch i think you need 2 enzymes - Amylase and maltose - but fructose does not need digestion - absorption seems the bigger problem.

 

[EIRE24]

Are you and you athletes from Europe? - i read somewhere that at least 30% of europeans have fructose malabsorption - i am from Europe and i remember the time when we were eating bananas and oranges only on Christmas. On some forums i see people that failed to heal their gut on a diet like 80/10/10 and then had success with diet like The starch solution - this is very interesting for me because in order to digest starch i think you need 2 enzymes - Amylase and maltose - but fructose does not need digestion - absorption seems the bigger problem.

I definitely had a problem with fructose. It destroyed my gut and I am European.

 

[tara]

i remember the time when we were eating bananas and oranges only on Christmas.

Sure, oranges and bananas don't grow in northern Europe, and transport logistics made them a rare treat a few decades ago. But wouldn't there have been sweet pip and stone fruit and berries in season at other times of year though? And honey and raisins?

 

[EIRE24]

Sure, oranges and bananas don't grow in northern Europe, and transport logistics made them a rare treat a few decades ago. But wouldn't there have been sweet pip and stone fruit and berries in season at other times of year though? And honey and raisins?

Honey is actually something I'm going to try out and see if it fairs better than fruit did for me